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How to make grimgor viable

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  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 5,000
    Sigvald also costs 350 less base and is way more tanky with all around good stats, regen and never dropping armour due to vigour. With his base 100 LD he also makes many other supposedly brave lords look like cowards. Different rosters as well.

  • turrehundturrehund Registered Users Posts: 397

    Sigvald also costs 350 less base and is way more tanky with all around good stats, regen and never dropping armour due to vigour. With his base 100 LD he also makes many other supposedly brave lords look like cowards. Different rosters as well.

    Don't forget his pretty good abilities and being ItP on top of his 100 LD, and if I recall correctly, his regen is 8 HP PER SECOND. Sigvald is hilariously overpowered.

    Perfect Vigour is an incredibly powerful ability that can seriously supercharge the performance of a unit. I'd much rather prefer if Strong Vigour was a thing and handed out to all pure melee lords as standard.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 809
    edited April 8
    turrehund said:

    Sigvald also costs 350 less base and is way more tanky with all around good stats, regen and never dropping armour due to vigour. With his base 100 LD he also makes many other supposedly brave lords look like cowards. Different rosters as well.

    Don't forget his pretty good abilities and being ItP on top of his 100 LD, and if I recall correctly, his regen is 8 HP PER SECOND. Sigvald is hilariously overpowered.

    Perfect Vigour is an incredibly powerful ability that can seriously supercharge the performance of a unit. I'd much rather prefer if Strong Vigour was a thing and handed out to all pure melee lords as standard.
    yeah pretty much. grimgor doesnt come close to touching Sigvald's level
  • ThibixMagnusThibixMagnus Registered Users Posts: 737
    yeah whithout going full perfect vigor, something both vigor-related and melee-related would be interesting and fit grimgor. Like an 'old grumblers' equivalent AoE, vigor regen that activates in melee. He is all tired and sad as he runs around after an elusive oponent, but gets notoriously happy the longer a brawl gets. And good to support a grindy core of black orcs.
  • RawSugarRawSugar Registered Users Posts: 1,349

    yeah whithout going full perfect vigor, something both vigor-related and melee-related would be interesting and fit grimgor. Like an 'old grumblers' equivalent AoE, vigor regen that activates in melee. He is all tired and sad as he runs around after an elusive oponent, but gets notoriously happy the longer a brawl gets. And good to support a grindy core of black orcs.

    he could get the rowdy trait like centigors; perfect vigour until leadership starts wavering. the explosion from his armor could be upgraded so he doesnt have any bad matchups.
  • TheVikingTWTheVikingTW Registered Users Posts: 374
    edited April 8
    I agree something needs to be done with Grimgor. They've tried and tried and tried, but he remains vulnerable to magic sniping (leech especially) and his MD is still low. Magic resistance and MD would help him a lot.

    You could also give him charge defense against large so he doesn't get bullied by monsters as much.

    He is slow and on foot, so he cannot be the lord smasher that he's supposed to be. No one's just going to run their lord into him. Therefore he should be a threat you simply cannot ignore, either because he causes terror, or he has enough splash damage to decimate your infantry, or he gives some buff to surrounding units in melee.

    Right now he's a lot like Dwarf lords who are good in 1v1 in theory but they never get that 1v1.
  • hanenhanen Registered Users Posts: 664
    Id rather stay away from a 1v1 vs other duelists. The RNG involved is heart breaking from time to time.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 809

    I agree something needs to be done with Grimgor. They've tried and tried and tried, but he remains vulnerable to magic sniping (leech especially) and his MD is still low. Magic resistance and MD would help him a lot.

    You could also give him charge defense against large so he doesn't get bullied by monsters as much.

    He is slow and on foot, so he cannot be the lord smasher that he's supposed to be. No one's just going to run their lord into him. Therefore he should be a threat you simply cannot ignore, either because he causes terror, or he has enough splash damage to decimate your infantry, or he gives some buff to surrounding units in melee.

    Right now he's a lot like Dwarf lords who are good in 1v1 in theory but they never get that 1v1.

    He just chases forever without ever touching anybody
    I think he really needs some utility to synergize with inf heavy builds
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 3,399

    I agree something needs to be done with Grimgor. They've tried and tried and tried, but he remains vulnerable to magic sniping (leech especially) and his MD is still low. Magic resistance and MD would help him a lot.

    You could also give him charge defense against large so he doesn't get bullied by monsters as much.

    He is slow and on foot, so he cannot be the lord smasher that he's supposed to be. No one's just going to run their lord into him. Therefore he should be a threat you simply cannot ignore, either because he causes terror, or he has enough splash damage to decimate your infantry, or he gives some buff to surrounding units in melee.

    Right now he's a lot like Dwarf lords who are good in 1v1 in theory but they never get that 1v1.

    He just chases forever without ever touching anybody
    I think he really needs some utility to synergize with inf heavy builds
    Chase is misleading. More a clumsy waddle
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,180
    Tbf, if he can reliably chase more mobile lords then what is the purpose of paying for mobility?

    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,947

    Tbf, if he can reliably chase more mobile lords then what is the purpose of paying for mobility?

    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.

    If melee foot lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,073
    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,947
    edited April 8
    Loupi_ said:

    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

    These pseudo-dueling abilities that factually are just debuffs that can be exploited by the entire army are BS. In Troy there's a taunt ability that forces the affected unit into attacking the taunter, that's how these should work.

    Bellow duel challenge, 40m range, challenger and affected unit can only attack each other, all other attack orders on either character are rescinded until the ability runs out.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,073

    Loupi_ said:

    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

    These pseudo-dueling abilities that factually are just debuffs that can be exploited by the entire army are BS. In Troy there's a taunt ability that forces the affected unit into attacking the taunter, that's how these should work.

    Bellow duel challenge, 40m range, affected unit can only attack challenger, all other attack orders on either character are rescinded until the ability runs out.
    So you're saying it's too strong and that only grimgor should be able to benefit from it.

    What you're suggesting is basically fermented fungi where you force an enemy to attack the nearest thing. No one wants more rampage abilities
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,180
    edited April 8

    Tbf, if he can reliably chase more mobile lords then what is the purpose of paying for mobility?

    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.

    If melee foot lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?
    If mobile lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?


    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 809
    Loupi_ said:

    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

    False. Even with nets a d slows he is too slow
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,293
    edited April 9
    Loupi_ said:

    Loupi_ said:

    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

    These pseudo-dueling abilities that factually are just debuffs that can be exploited by the entire army are BS. In Troy there's a taunt ability that forces the affected unit into attacking the taunter, that's how these should work.

    Bellow duel challenge, 40m range, affected unit can only attack challenger, all other attack orders on either character are rescinded until the ability runs out.
    So you're saying it's too strong and that only grimgor should be able to benefit from it.

    What you're suggesting is basically fermented fungi where you force an enemy to attack the nearest thing. No one wants more rampage abilities
    No, if you had played TROY (assuming you haven't) you would know that this is far more personal than rampage. Not sure, but duelists are generally left alone by surrounding combatants although the surrounding units may provide some buff support or moral support (not totally sure), but both units are affected by melee attack moving to the other not just the enemy. Also, I am not sure if the units receive missile resistance while under the effect, but the idea is a man to man fight. One thing I will say that I don't like in TROY is that your buffs become inaccessible while you are dueling which feels bad if you are caught with your buffs down. However, Shiro clearly said that both targets auto melee one another and ignore other movement orders (any order that interferes with the duel), so I would say he recognizes this is something to be improved from TROY as it currently works.

    Honestly, I very much expect this ability in Warhammer 3 because dueling champions is a big part of Korne's schitk and hopefully we see it available for the entire old world and Skaven (some or all characters) should get a power to cancel duels 'cast' on them without fleeing but any other hero should only be able to flee (moral break) from a duel.

    Maybe Skaven challenge canceling could be put on cool down so you can overwhelm the challenge override since this Skaven ability is anti-fun and on TT put the Skaven hero out of combat, so had some benefits to the opposition.
    Post edited by Bastilean on
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,073
    edited April 8
    Bastilean said:

    Loupi_ said:

    Loupi_ said:

    He already has a stronger version of hunter of champions and comes on a roster with a million slows(goblin shaman and troll hag to name a few), if there is something he wants to kill he can catch it with help (or without if you time it well) and then he can kill it.

    If anything just give him rabble rouser and be done with it. Then Grom can lose his ITP aoe.

    These pseudo-dueling abilities that factually are just debuffs that can be exploited by the entire army are BS. In Troy there's a taunt ability that forces the affected unit into attacking the taunter, that's how these should work.

    Bellow duel challenge, 40m range, affected unit can only attack challenger, all other attack orders on either character are rescinded until the ability runs out.
    So you're saying it's too strong and that only grimgor should be able to benefit from it.

    What you're suggesting is basically fermented fungi where you force an enemy to attack the nearest thing. No one wants more rampage abilities
    No, if you had played TROY (assuming you haven't) you would know that this is far more personal than rampage. Not sure, but duelists are generally left alone by surrounding combatants although the surrounding units may provide some buff support or moral support (not totally sure), but both units are affected by melee attack moving to the other not just the enemy. Also, I am not sure if the units receive missile resistance while under the effect, but the idea is a man to man fight. One thing I will say that I don't like in TROY is that your buffs become inaccessible while you are dueling which feels bad if you are caught with your buffs down. However, Shiro clearly said that both targets auto melee one another and ignore other movement orders (any order that interferes with the duel), so I would say he recognizes this is something to be improved from TROY as it currently works.

    Honestly, I very much expect this ability in Warhammer 3 because dueling champions is a big part of Korne's schitk and hopefully we see it available for the entire old world and Skaven (some or all characters) should get a power to cancel duels 'cast' on them without fleeing but any other hero should only be able to flee (moral break) from a duel. Maybe Skaven challenge canceling could be put on cool down so you can overwhelm the challenge override since this skaven ability is anti-fun and on TT put the Skaven hero out of combat.
    not true, grimgor ability + either mither or shamans spell combo is essentially a net so if you time it properly you should have no issues catching his target.

    this troy duelling system sounds like a really terrible mechanic in warhammer. Can these duels be refused? for example, if grimgor "challenged" a caster near him i guess the caster just dies right. sounds pretty bad to me. Pretty sure CA is smart enough to avoid such mechanics in warhammer.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,947

    Tbf, if he can reliably chase more mobile lords then what is the purpose of paying for mobility?

    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.

    If melee foot lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?
    If mobile lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?


    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.
    If mobility is a god stat that influences performance by near 100%, why have any slow characters at all?
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,293
    edited April 9
    I see a lot of people quoting other people and then replying to themselves like the quoted comment isn't a real comment...

    @ShiroAmakusa75 @Loupi_
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,180
    edited April 9

    Tbf, if he can reliably chase more mobile lords then what is the purpose of paying for mobility?

    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.

    If melee foot lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?
    If mobile lords can be so easily deprived of their purpose, what's the point of them?


    Make him a bigger threat to the front line so you need to deal with it or regret later or give aoe ITP and take it away from Grom.
    If mobility is a god stat that influences performance by near 100%, why have any slow characters at all?
    Because you are picking the slow characters for other advantages over the mobile one. Just look at skarsnik at the same roster. Hes a common pick

    More speed is always an advantage over low speed if all else is the same.

    but its the same as having more hp or other stats than having low hp or crappy melee stats.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 11,560
    Really just give grimgor AOE ITP like BOBB has and he will have a role with nerfed grom.
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