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Just for Fun 5: Desert Dwarfs

sykallsykall Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 2,457
edited April 2021 in General Discussion
Hey everyone,

A past thread got me thinking about dwarfs in fantasy in general. I like dwarfs very much, but I am often bothered about the limited range they have over various fictious works. That they are very similar if not almost identical across multiple works. Whereas elves, trolls, orcs & co can come in various flavours and incarnations dwarfs are always rough, pragmatic, rudely honest & grudge keeping, hardworking mountainfolk with a love for alcohol, mining, treasures, and axes. If you are lucky, you have evil dwarfs too. And if you are very lucky some dwarfs like the surface as much as the underground, and they have cities there too.
But I think more could be done with this people. Warhammer already has two or three different groups of dwarfs (depending on how you categorize the norscan dwarfs), and thus offer more diversity for their beardlings than most other fantasy universes. Especially as chaos dwarfs are different form basic dwarfs in many aspects.
And further hints at the diversity of dwarfen culture can be found in minor sources about expatriate dwarfs in human cities or the grey mountain dwarfs.
Still, I wanted to explore a new concept for the dwarfs. As the Warhammer setting has many white spots devoid of unique content or content in general, I decided to renew my series of just-for-fun faction pitches with this new dwarfen culture.
This concept is in my opinion very conservative, as I orientated myself closely to what we know about Warhammer dwarfs, to make the faction fit the setting better. But I hope it is still enjoyable.

This thread is not meant to be taken seriously but is just for entertainment purposes or to pass the time during Covid. And it is supposed to show some untapped potential of dwarfs in fantasy, or the potential of the white spots in the wider Warhammer fantasy setting.

In this case the dwarfs are remnants of Karak Zorn who migrated into the deserts south of Nehekhara and Araby. I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold, having more stamina than normal human. It would not take many changes to see dwarfs as a humanoid camel. Not to mention that they could use their ingenuity and architectural strengths there too.
Also, Warhammer as a setting is famous for containing white spots devoid of any content. One look at the world map is enough to see this. That is why I decided to use the Warhammer setting to place this semi-original take on dwarfs.
As always if you like my concepts for some reason, you are free to use them in any way, form and shape you want. They are all meant as basic templates to be enjoyed and potentially build upon after all.

Lastly like any of my faction concepts, the desert dwarfs are a stand-alone creation. So, you do not need to know any of my previous works. But if you are interested in more, here are the links to the previous works:

Epunt: and ehtiopian-based human civilization in the southlands.
Chon: an anti-chaos harpy-like faction in the west of the new world.
Tanites: a deep sea faction of aquatic horrors.
See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260636/just-for-fun-three-made-up-warhammer-factions

Eddu confederacy: a confederacy of sasquatch-like ogres, elves and halflings in central naggaroth. Izwan: A human oligarchy in the southern darklands, based on Perisa, Palmyria and Carthage
See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260978/just-for-fun-part-2-two-made-up-warhammer-factions

Characters for the five factions, See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/262448/just-for-fun-3-characters

Nethun: a coastal, marine faction based on medival and antique myths about seapeople and mermaids.
See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/267880/just-for-fun-part-4-a-single-made-up-faction

I hope you enjoy the read.
Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting

Comments

  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    1. Why:
    You wanna find Karak Zorn lad? Make sure you keep in the mountains all the time. Some crazy beardlings ventured into the desert once. It did them no good.
    Advice of a longbeard to a dwarf explorer



    The great desert of the southlands is based around Sahara and the Arabic peninsula. This region contained many prestigious cultures over the millennia. From popular Egypt to several Arabic civilisations, to the Amazigh (berbers) of northern Africa, to the Sudanese, Songhai, Malienese, and several more.
    The Saraha desert was one key factor in the global history of our species, place of critical trade routes and cultural and scientific discoveries, precious resources and more. But due to GWs focus on the Old World this region is devoid of unique content. We have the Tomb Kings in the east, and footnote of araby in the west. But many parts, especially the southern reaches, are just empty and wasted space on the map. But no spot of the world is ever devoid of content after all, not even deserts.

    The Desert Dwarfs, or Dawi Izor (copper dwarfs) or Dawi Zon (Sun Dwarfs) are meant to flesh out this region, and potentially create more interesting content and dynamics for the southlands. These Desert Dwarfs are primarily based on Nubia (modern Sudan), and Assyria and other Mesopotamian cultures. Other influences come from Mali in western Africa.

    Nubia as a kingdom was known as a rival/vassal/ally/else for ancient Egypt for almost its entire existence. Like its northern neighbour it had advanced agricultural techniques, in addition to wealth in gold and other minerals. Indeed, most of Egypt’s gold came from modern day Sudan. And Nubia has much more pyramids than Egypt, though they are also much smaller and pointier.

    Mesopotamia in general is known for being the cradle of humanity, where the first cities and monuments were built. Some of these monuments even left their mark in the bible, e.g. ziggurats which inspired the tower of babel. As dwarfs are well known for constructing marvellous buildings it is a tempting template. Furthermore, Assyria was known as the military force of its time, so it may offer some inspirations for a potential army.

    Lastly Mali in western Africa was once the richest country of the world, with some of their kings being very rich. E.g. Mansa Musa was the richest person of all time. Even modern billionaires cannot reach his reported wealth if the historical reports are accurate. Not to mention their cultural strengths, e.g. the famous clay buildings and famous libraries of Timbuktu.
    Other potential inspirations could be stone cities like Petra.


    2. Lifestyle:

    Put more spices into the beer. The spices must flow!
    Brewmistress of the desert dwarfs



    The Dawi Izor/Dawi Zon are vastly different from their relatives in the WEM, the Dawi Zharr or the norscan dwarfs. They started as remnants and refugees from Karak Zorn, the very first dwarfhold and birthplace of their species. Instead of searching for another home in the mountains, they chose to settle the south of the great desert, east of Araby and south of Nehekhara. There the dwarfs turned to an un-dwarfish lifestyle. Instead of primarily digging deep into the earth in search for minerals, these dawi used their skill in construction and architecture to build water pumps, canals, dams and cisterns. As a result, the water guild, which oversees the construction and maintenance of the many water infrastructure, is one of the most influential within the desert dwarfs society.
    All this to let water flow through their domain and turn their patch of desert into a splendid and green oasis. Indeed, out of all the dwarfen cultures of the world, the desert dwarfs have the strongest affinity with the natural world. They grow a huge variety of plants in these gardens from all over the southlands. Some useful for brewing and baking, others to create and colour fabrics, medical herbs & spices, even some useful for toxins, which they have no problem to use. They spent much for their time caring for these gardens under the scorching desert sun. This lifestyle gave their skin a dark taint, giving them their names, Copper Dwarfs or Sun Dwarfs.

    Instead of cutting their holds out of the bedrock of the earth, the Dawi Izor instead erect their cities and monuments out of sandstone and bricks containing clay and starch. (Starch and plant fibres combined with clay is a very potent building material, as the starch makes the brick more resistant. The great wall of china was built out of bricks containing clay and rice e.g.)
    The desert dwarfs create huge cities, citadels, and fortifications, both above and underground. Their ziggurats, of which some dwarf nehekaran pyramids, are not rare in their cities. These buildings are multipurpose and act akin to acropolises, containing many interior rooms and chambers to live and work. On the outside these buildings are often planted and have running waters and fountains, making them look like artificial mountains. Also, the desert dwarfs put their dead to rest in small, modest pyramids. Both are architectural memory of their old mountainous home.
    Whether the nehekharans took this style from the desert dwarfs, the lizardmen further south, or evolved it independently is lost to time.
    Contrary to other dwarfs the Dawi Izor have no problem living above ground, especially if the underground caverns are needed to store the water from sparse but intense rainfalls. Water is in the desert more valuable than gold after all. To cool their homes during the hot days, the dwarfs build them with thick walls and add wind catchers, a system of pipes which cool the house by diverting the colder desert winds of the higher echelons.

    The dwarfs trade with other civilized realms in their vicinity, primarily with Araby and other southern humans. Caravans cross the realm of the Dawi Izor from the northwest from Araby to the southeast were their realm touches the southern WEMs. Some desert-dwelling humans also joined into their society, attracted by the fertile lands and thick walls. These few tribes of men are tolerated by the dwarfs and are valuable vassals and auxiliaries.

    But the Dawi Izor are still dwarfs. As such they are still known for holding grudges and oaths as sacred. And they too venerate their ancestors. And they too organize themselves in guilds and families/clans and follow their King and Princes into battle. But being cut off from the Karaz Ankor they view themselves as independent and hold their allegiance to their own High King, or King of Kings as they say. Furthermore, whilst they are still dwarfs and thus creative in constructing machines and weaponry, they are not as advanced as their northern relatives. They have no sources of gromril, no gunpowder and lost many runes and lack much of modern dwarfen machinery. Still, they are far from barbaric and craft various masterpieces.


    3. Economy:

    To the eyes of men the desert is an unforgiving and lifeless area, a worthless desolation. But dwarfen eyes see a landscape of untapped potential and riches. As such did the Dawi Izor go to work and by their very own hands tamed the desert. They found hidden water reservoirs deep underground, diverted rivers and expanded oasis to create lush gardens deep within the desolation. These gardens are very fertile and produce every type of crops & herbs known in the southlands. Plants which cannot stand the cold desert nights, are raised in glass houses. In addition to this the Dawi Izor hold herds of domesticated animals and use their canals and ponds to fish. This abundance in food and natural resources is one of the keys for the success of their society. Not only does it feed their population, but also attract merchants of other countries. Caravans from the north or the south journey into their realm, willing to trade their goods for dwarfen breweries, which are far spicier and more exotic than northern dwarfen beer, and rare herbs. Even wood is a trade good of them, as the desert dwarfs even grow forests in the desert.

    But the Dawi Izor are still proper dwarfs. As such they do much more than just raising plants. The desert holds its own reservoir of mineral wealth to be exploited. Salt, the white gold, exists in huge formations. Sulfur and other vulcanic residues can be found in the shadow of the southern WEM. Gems like diamonds too, as well as minerals and ores. Not to mention stoneblood (oil) and tar which possess a variety of applications. And their knowledge of plants becomes very useful, as many plants grow on certain soils and are indicators for the mineral wealth beneath.
    All these resources are then further refined by craftsmen and alchemists. Even the sand itself is also a great material to refine, e.g. into various glassworks.
    There are of course resources the Dawi Izor lack, Certain metals for example, or resources needed for rune crafting. But traders will gladly provide them.

    Furthermore, their realm is at the crossroads of araba and the southern Southlands, and slave traders also regularly cross their realm. Whilst the Dawi Izor have no use of slaves themselves, they allow these traders passage through their realm, for a price.
    So even though their realm is much poorer in mineral wealth than the holds of their northern relatives, the desert dwarfs are still able to accumulate riches and their treasure holds can put a candle to those of other dawi.


    4. Religion:

    On the surface the desert dwarfs follow the strictures of the other dwarfs. They too venerate their ancestors to a high degree and remember their deeds and grudges. But there are key differences, especially concerning the nature of the ancestor gods. Whereas the northern dwarfs believe that Grungni, Valaya and Grimnir were the first ancestors, and all other dwarfs are their descendants, the desert dwarfs have another version. They hold the memory of Karak Zorn in high esteem, or at least the fragments of lore they still have access to after its fall. And they believe that the ancestor gods were not the first dawi. They were extraordinary dwarfs to be sure and their work and acts are highly venerated. But they were not the first ancestors, but rather mere citizens of Karak Zorn, born and raised there, before leading the dwarfen colonists further north. And they too were subjects of the first king of all dwarfs, the king of Karak Zorn. Also, they value the surviving reports of the Old Ones, which they venerate not as ancestors or gods, but as tutors of their kind. A point of divergence, which can lead to violent discussions should a desert dwarf and a northern dwarf meet.


    5. Military:

    I killed dwarfs before. They are predictable and the loot is great. When I heard that there are some holds south of Araby I knew where to strike. It must be a collection of small holds, right? Something like the border princes maybe. But after marching through the desert all I met was heat and fire and death. These dwarfs may look different from other ones, but they are equally dangerous if you are not prepared.
    A tilean mercenary captain and sole survivor of an expedition




    The realm of the Dawi Izor lies deep within the desert. As such any enemy host must first march through the scorching lands. This is a natural protection for their settlements, but the Southlands contain many ferocious dangers. As such the desert dwarfs hold a strong military force. In times of war every guild and clan must send & equip warriors to join their king’s hosts.
    But in style these armies are different from typical dwarfen armies.
    First, the hot desert makes heavy armours difficult to use. By the standards of the Karaz-Ankor the desert dwarfs are lightly armed. Carefully woven fabrics connected to metal and leather pieces (depending on the richness of the clan) form the general armour. It is still of dwarfen quality and thus offers a lot of protection against arrows and strikes, but it is also pitiful by general dwarfen standards. However, this relatively light amour also means that a host of desert dwarfs is also much quicker than a typical dwarf force. Speed and manoeuvrability are key in a desert environment after all. As such the desert dwarfs mostly refrain from heavy war machines most of the time and prefer smaller but more mobile weaponry.
    In addition, their human auxiliaries give them an unparalleled speed and flexibility, by dwarfen standards at least. But at the cost of endurance and defence.
    Also they make heavy use of polearms, like glaves and halberds, which they use in a phalanx formation to beat back the enemy. Some of these weapons originated from farming tools and were modified against the monsters of the southern jungles and other enemies.
    Lastly the dawi Izor lack gunpowoder or advanced machinery like gyrocopters. Still they make heavy use for chemical weapons. Their alchemists created very potent inflammables out of stoneblood. This desert fire can burn for days straight and cannot be extinguished by water. Instead it just makes the substance rupture and spread even further. In addition to these firebombs the dawi Izor also make use of toxic weaponry. Other dawi may see poison as dishonourable, but from a desert dwarfs mindset there is little difference in using flaming weapons and poisonous one. In the end it is a chemical reaction that kills the enemy. So if flaming weapons are ok, toxic weapons should do as well. So some desert dwarfs coat their weapons with poisions and glass spheres or canisters containing sulphuric or chloride gases are launched against the enemy. This weaponry is of course potentially dangerous for the dawi as well, which is why only special individuals will carry them freely.

    5.1 Lords:
    Dawi Izor Lord: The lords of the desert dwarfs are nobles or longbeard, often with centuries of combat experience, and the very best equipment and runic weapons their cities have to offer.

    Dawi Izor Rune Lord. The desert dwarfs also possess rune priest. But these priests have forgotten much what the karaz ankor knows, and remember what they have forgotten. As such they can summon different runes to the battlefield to empower their army.

    5.2 Heroes:
    Dawi Izor Prince: Dwarf nobles gather at the command of their kings to lead their hosts into combat. These dawi have access to some of the beast weaponry and armour and often use shields and one-handed halberds.

    Dawi Izor Rune Priest: Hero Version the dawi izor rune Lord

    Dawi Izor Alchemist: The desert dwarfs were creative in using their resources. The alchemists and engineers (the distinction is not always clear) do not only support the war machines the Dawi Izor bring to the battlefield but wield exotic weaponry themselves. A shield and axe are always good and proper in close combat, but the Dawi Izor also use grenades, inflammable tarpit traps and other weaponry. One weapon of choice, the fire lance, is a hollow spear with a whole at one end. By the push of a button the tip opens and releases a stream of liqud fire to consume the enemy. Needless to say, that these fire-crazed individuals are viewed with caution by other dawi.

    Dawi Izor Brewmistress: Brewmistress are women who have an very extensive knowledge of the gardens. They know the use of many different herbs both for cures and for poisonous purposes. Their brews contain various herbs and act as liquid medicine, revitalizing dawi who stood on the door of death. Being no slouches in combat either, these maidens were axes and can also use poisonous tinctures to debuff the enemy.

    5.3 Infantry:
    Dawi Izor Warriors:
    The standard warrior for the dawi Izor. These warriors use large shields and were a linothroax fabric as armour. As they fight in dense formations they make use of spears for a phalanx and carry piercing swords for close combat.

    Dawi Izor Skirmishers: By the standards of the Karaz Ankor these dwarfs are rangers. Lightly armoured and vast do they scout ahead of the main force, lay ambushes and attack the enemy with crossbow fire. Some regiments even coat their arrows with poison to further harass the enemy.

    Dawi Izor Longbeards: These old veterans like to grumble about the useless beardlings, and how great it was in older times. They mostly were heavier armour then the normal warriors and possess better equipment. As veterans of many years they have no problem with wearing heavy armour in the deserts heat. The longbeards like to use halberds which are two-handed axe and spear in one. With these weapons they will pierce any amour and take down any mount.
    Otherwise they use shields and one-handed weapons.

    Shamed Ones: The shamed ones are the equivalent of slayers or the infernal guard. These dwarfs have committed some wrong. But instead of suicidal challenging monsters, they are primarily indebted into their society and must serve them before personal acts. So they form special regiments of scouts and desert dwellers. In loose formation they carry axes, but they are also using fire pots and gas orbs, which they hurl at the enemy. This is of course a dangerous task, as the dwarfs themselves could easily be harmed by their own weaponry. But the shamed ones are willing to take this risk to redeem themselves in combat.

    Royal Guard:
    The royal guard are the elite warriors of the Dawi Izor. Handpicked for their service these warriors are outfitted with runic armour and weapons. They train extensively and are amongst the toughest warriors. Swinging a runecrafted halberd with one hand and holding a shield in the other is no problem for them. And they easily wreck enemy units, especially larger entities.

    Fire warriors: Special regiments of alchemist apprentices are sometimes formed. These dawi primarily use the fire lances of the alchemist, but in a fire rank formation. As such they can create a dense fall of fire in front of them for the enemy to pass. To protect themselves from the flames, they wear heavy armour.

    Manling Warriors: Vassals who inhabit the desert dwarfs territory and swore allegiance to them are willing to fight for the dwarfs as well. But they have to settle on the lower ranks of the army. Lucky individuals will be granted dwarfen forged armoury, but most have to use umgi arms. And they are also prone to flee, were a dwarf would still endure. As such they are not trusted with holding the front line, but instead with protecting the flanks and trying to encircle the enemy.

    Manling Skirmishers: Manlings can be used as skirmishers as well. It is astounding to a dwarf what a manling can do with a simple sling made of leather or fabric. They were little else, maybe a small shield and a dagger, to be especially maneuverable and quick. As such they harass the enemy if possible and retreat behind the dawi lines before the enemy can catch them. Some slinger regiments use small spheres containing desert fire, which ignites on contact with the enemy.

    5.4 Cavalry:

    Manling Riders: Manlings have better control over animals then most desert dwarfs do. As such they provide light cavalry to act as scouts and to harass enemy skirmishers.

    Ducurno Chariot: The ducourno (two horns) are hairless variants of the rhynox (so basic rhinoceros). The desert dwarfs have found this animal to be as stubborn and strong as they are. Being able to relate to these animals the desert dwarfs put them in front of heavy bronze chariots with which they break through enemy lines.

    5.5 Artillery/War Machines:

    Ballista: A ballista as anti-large weapons similar to the ones by the karaz ankor.

    Grudge Thrower: A grudge thrower similar to the one of the karaz ankor.

    Scorpion team: Based on the torsion weapons romans and greeks used. These are very small artillery pieces, which are also very portable. Two dwarfs are enough to dissemble the weapon and put it together elsewhere. Together with its relatively cheap production this small artillery piece is used by entire teams of artillery users. With minor modifications the small ballistae can fire a wide variety of projectiles.
    -Bolts for large foes and to pierce armour, -fire pots, -pots filled with scorpions or snakes, -orbs containing acidic gases, - lead projectiles with carved in insults and more.
    It lacks the punching power of larger artillery pieces, but its utility and easy maintenance make this weapon effective, especially against infantry or horse-sized targets.

    Fire Siphon: The fire siphon is the largest war machine in use by the desert dwarfs. This war machine has a huge chassis made out of bronze and other metals. Moved by a dwarfen artillery crew inside on this machine could remind people of a weaker armoured version of steam tanks. But instead of blackpowder this weapon uses petroleum-mixtures to spew large tongues of fire in the direction of the enemy. In close combat its crew will throw fire pots out of small openings.

    Burning Mirror: This machine is built out of a system of rune crafted bronze mirrors and crystals, which catch the sunlight and store the energy, ready to release an intense ray of heat which can boil unlucky enemy, making them pop like corn, or simply set them or their fabrics aflame.

    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    6. History and Faction Relations:

    We are the first ones. The heirs of Karak Zorn. We are, by right, the true dwarfs. What are our northern cousins but small hills, when we are the mountain? They should owe us the loyalty and respect we deserve. And I, as king of kings of the Dawi Izor, the first king, the king of Karak Zorn, am the rightful High King of all dwarfs. It is known.
    Marduk, King of King of the Dawi Izor, first King of the dwarfs, King of Karak Zorn and rightful High King of all dwarfs. As it is known.



    6.1 History:

    The desert dwarfs once lived in Karak Zorn, the birthplace of the entire dwarfen species. It was the birthplace of Grimnir, Valaya and Grungni. From there did the dwarfs migrated northwards and founded the Karaz Ankor. But even at the height of their empire, contact with their home of Karak Zorn was difficult, due to its remote position. And after the many catastrophes that shook the Karaz Ankor, the contact broke off entirely and the position of the birthplace was forgotten. But the dwarfs in Karak Zorn endured for a while.
    However, an unknown catastrophe forced the dwarfs out. The trauma of losing the birthplace of their species hit the refugees so deep, that many of them did not dare to speak about what happened. Today only the royal house, members of the guild of runemasters and the priests of the ancestor gods know the details and they do not dare to speak with others about it.
    Their exodus led the dwarfs through many inhospitable landscapes of the southlands. They marched for decades through the hostile jungles, feral savannahs, and the now treacherous mountains. Always under attack by greenskins, feral lizardmen, beastmen and worse creatures. Finally, they entered the southern deserts to escape their attackers. There they found a deep chasm with an oasis at the bottom. A lake and a river leading to a huge system of underground, water filled caverns. This safe spot became the germ cell of their rebirth. Over centuries and millennia did the dwarfs carve out homes within the rock, burned bricks to erect walls and buildings on the surface, created wind-driven pumps and pipes to bring the water to the surface, where they would grow plenty of food, and recover their numbers.
    As their numbers grew, so did their realm. And they founded new cities elsewhere in the desert after the model of their new capital. The dwarfs erected a great infrastructure to keep their domain fertile and wet. And they erected huge monuments in memory of their lost home. And thick walls and Citadels too, as their new realm attracted enemies. Over time this new lifestyle changed the desert dwarfs, until their culture and language would be unrecognisable by other dawi.
    Around the same time did the nehekharans were at the height of their strength, but they did not seek to cross into the deep-south to harass the dawi. However, this changed with the arrival of Nagash. His great ritual affected the Dawi Izor as well, leading to undead incursions and the defilement of their ancestor’s tombs. Furthermore, in the anarchy that arose after his defeat and the rise of the Tomb Kings the entire desert was in turmoil. Mad, undead kings fought each other, and many tried to invade the desert dwarfs as well.
    What human tribes survived Nagash actions, and the Tomb Kings wars fled into all cardinal directions. Many arrived in the realm of the desert dwarfs and begged for entrance. The dwarfs, after much consideration, accepted.
    In the millennia past this the desert dwarfs had to engage into many wars for survival, as Greenskins, Undead, Skaven and else were a constant threat. But they were also able to connect themselves with Araby and other civilized realms in the Southlands. And it was even possible for them to reignite contact with their northern relatives via dwarfen ships from Barak Varr, who ventured into the gulf of medes.

    6.2 Relations:

    6.2.1 Dwarfs:
    The relationship of the Dawi Izor and the Karaz Ankor is difficult. On one side they have no active hostilities with each other. On the other side dwarfen pride and the huge distance between their realms makes relations difficult. From the perspective of the Karaz Ankor the desert dwarfs have lost their way. In the eyes of many northern longbeards the desert dwarfs are not as bad as the Dawi-Zharr, but they have lost too many traditions to be counted as a proper dawi. Caring more for plants then fore metals, having strange traditions and prefer to live in mudhuts on the surface then in proper holds under the earth, the desert dwarfs appear barbaric and feral for many inhabitants of the northern karaks. This is further reinforced by the sparse contact leading to exaggerations and misstellings.
    However, the desert dwarfs also hold some reservations for their northern relatives. Because from their perspective all the northern dwarf holds were just colonies of Karak Zorn. Colonies which should by honour and primogeniture be bound to the first king of the dwarfs, the king of Karak Zorn. And as the line of kings of Karak Zorn is unbroken to this day, the High King of the Dawi Izor should be the rightful High King of all dwarfs. Not that the High King of the Karak Izor would ever be able to pressure this claim or take any practical advantage of it. But still counts.
    In the end both dwarfen people are fine with seeing the other as an estranged relative in the far north/south with funny ideas and care more for their immediate neighbours and problems.

    6.2.2 Chaos Dwarfs:
    The Chaos Dwarfs are little else but a mere myth to the desert dwarfs. The entirety of the worlds edge mountains and half of the southlands, the entire Badlands and half of the dark lands lies between their realms. Whereas contact with the Karaz Ankor is sparse, proper contact with the Dawi-Zharr is almost impossible. But there have been meetings. Once a diplomatic envoy tried to get to Karaz-a-karak. But on their way, they met a small army of chaos dwarfs. After some confusion, as no faction knew about the other, hostilities broke out. It ended with most of the desert dwarfs entourage dead or enslaved. The survivors managed to reach other dwarf holds and finally learned of their fallen brothers in the east. And they gave word back of what happened, leading to a grudge declared against the Dawi-Zharr. One that the Dawi Izor wish to see stroke out.

    6.2.3 Humans:
    The desert dwarfs have ambivalent relations with the humans of the southlands. The cities of Araby are an important trading partner and sometimes a valuable ally against Tomb Kings or other threats. But at the same time, they can be treacherous of their own. Grudges were written down against treacherous merchants and raiding nomad tribes. But overall, the desert dwarfs still see humans as worthwhile partners in commerce and war. Contact with the Old World is sparse, but through bretonnian crusaders, tilean merchants and the imperials at Sudenburg contact has been made. But they are just other humans. However, the humans who live as vassals within the desert dwarfs domain are seen fondly by the Dawi Izor, as they have taken over many aspect of the desert dwarfs culture and customs, and have proven loyal to them in many cases. These humans are seen as a higher class of umgi by the desert dwarfs, and their relationship, whilst not without hickups, bears fruits to this day. Indeed many dawi izor view them as an important part of their society.

    6.2.4 Undead:
    In the desert the undead are an eternal scourge. Since the resurrection of the Tomb Kings were they a thorn in the flesh of the Dawi Izor. Not only can they traverse the desert without problem, but their magic, constructs and monstrosities were able to inflict significant losses. Massive wars have been fought between the Dawi Izor and the undead. Settra may hold no interest in the desert dwarfs lands, but some of his unruly vassals or followers of Arkhan freely attack.
    Cities of the desert dwarfs were sacked and in return tomb complexes were eradicated. But no matter how many undead the desert dwarfs slay, another liche priest or tomb king will simply take its place and resurrect the fallen. But not only Tomb Kings but Vampires are a scorn. Some want to retake their ancient holds in Nehekhara and thus try include the desert dwarfs in their schemes and manipulations. Others wish to hide and feed among the desert dwarfs vassals.
    All in all no other dwarfen factions as to fight against the undead as much as the Dawi Izor. And many of their chemical weapons were created specifically to combat them.

    6.2.5 Skaven:
    Skaven are everywhere, in the southlands too. Clan Pestilens hold a strong foothold there, but so are other skaven. These pests are also furiously combated by the Dawi Izor. More than once did clan pestilence poison the water reservoir of an entire city. Something that the Dawi Izor swore should no happen ever again. As such they enter the dark tunnels beneath their cities to constantly push back the hordes of ravaging ratmen. Outside of their water reservoirs they have no sensitive structures down there and thus little use for tunnels which they collapse frequently. But they also block the tunnels with lines of spears, set entire sections aflame, and in rare cases pump chloric gases into the tunnels. All to beat back the skaven menace.

    6.2.6 Greenskins:
    Greenskins rush from the southern jungles, the WEM or the Badlands into the desert dwarfs realm. Most of them never make it far, being beaten back by the deadly landscape. But many more are inspired by sagas of stunties in the desert who would give you a good crumpin’ and good loot. They are orcs after all. And few creatures do the desert dwarfs hate more. When Karak Zorn fell the savage orcs of the southlands attacked the survivors at every turn. Indeed they primarily choose the desert as their new home to get away from the greenskins. But the greenskins sooner or later followed them anyway. The dwarfs have grewn accustomed to these attacks. And often are the greenskins heavily weakened when they reach a Dawi Izor settlement. But every so often a charismatic and cunning warlord leads a massive WAAGH into the desert. Then the desert dwarfs do their best to try to send him into a dead end, so that his entire WAAGH is killed and the Dawi Izor just have to deal with the remaining strugglers. But this does not always work.

    6.2.7 Lizardmen:
    The Lizardmen of the Southlands are different from their lustrian cousins. Having less Slann remaining and Saurus’ being also rare huge hordes of skins roam the jungles. Some of communities of lizardmen are even feral and behave more like rabid animals. However few creatures are as dreaded by the desert dwarfs as the Lizardmen are. Why is unclear. But the Dawi Izor hold a massive grudge against these creatures, as they played some role in the doom of Karak Zorn. Adventurous dwarfs will freely march into the southern jungles, searching for riches and lizards to slay. This of course leads to retributions by the Lizardmen, especially if a dawi takes a sacred plate. Which again will lead to retributions from the dwarfens side. This cycle of grudges and revenge let the Desert Dwarfs to see the Lizardmen as one of their most important enemies.

    6.2.7 Elves:
    The dwarfs of Karaz Ankor and the elves have a complicated history. But the Dawi Izor were absent from the war of vengeance and hostilities past this point. From their point of view the elgi are just another faction of beings. Not traitors or distrustful beings. Sure, elven arrogance can be distasteful for the stubborn dwarfs, but elven merchants which sail to their colonies on the southern tip of the southlands, are still a welcomed trading partner, especially as they can provide goods from the farthest reaches of the world. Indeed, they are even valued, as elves are more predictable than humans, and live much longer. Thus, it is easier to form long lasting trade relations with them. However, this also invites Dark Elves raids, which the desert dwarfs’ distaste for obvious reasons. And they fight them if the opportunity arises. But a smart dark elf, who manages to hide his identity, can be expected to be welcome in the few ports of the Dawi Izor.


    7. Characters:


    7.1 Marduk, King of Kings of the Dawi Izor:
    Marduk is the reigning king of all desert dwarfs. Holding a position like Highking Thorgrim Grudgebearer in the north. However, his position is not electoral, as he can claim to be descendent in a direct line from the first king of Karak Zorn, thus holding the Title of King of Karak Zorn and First King of the dawi too. Despite being old even by dwarfen standards, he is still very active and as restless as a beardling.
    His reign began in a troublesome period, where his father died whilst touring the realm. Some claim he was surprised by a desert storm, others that the was assassinated and his entourage killed, others that he simply vanished. Marduk, ever restless, wanted to climb the throne immediately, to keep his realm together. But as no one was sure whether his father was truly dead, many elders did not want to crown the new king. As a result, the realm remained headless for decades and enemies used this opportunity. Vampire lords, who thought the dwarfs held one of the books of Nagash, invaded from the north. Skaven, smelling the weakness of the realm, burrowed new tunnels to invade from below. And opportunistic humans also tried to take their part. Finally, a savage orc WAAGH! Spewed forth from the southern jungles.
    Marduk gathered his people in this Time of Siege, defending his realm on multiple fronts and finally beating back the invaders after long and bloody wars. This period left the desert dwarfs weakened. But after it passed the elders were willing to let Marduk be crowned as heir of Karak Zorn and King of Kings of the desert dwarfs, not just for his claim, but also for his deeds during the Time of Siege. In the centuries since then Marduk kept his realm safe and let his people prosper again.
    For a humble monarch it would have been enough to see his people grow again, after having saved it from destruction. But Marduk as lost none of this energy, even in his advanced age. It was always a dream of his to take back Karak Zorn, a deed that many of his ancestors had failed in. But this is not all he wants. Marduk wishes to truly reunite his realm with the Karaz Ankor. He wants to see his forces march from Karak Zorn all the way north to Karaz-a-Karak, to reclaim what was once held by the dwarfen people. And he wants to enter Karaz-a-Karak and be recognised by whatever dawi ruling there as what is rightfully his. The title of true High King of all dwarfs. For he is the first king, heir of Karak Zorn and by right the true leader of the dwarfen people. Such far reaching is his ambition. And he will not suffer any resistance, be it greenskins, skaven or his own kin.

    Marduk is a great warrior and general, but also cunning statesman. He wields the rune hammer of Karak Zorn, one of the few remaining heirlooms of the royal line. Furthermore, he wears the Kings Stone, a radiant gem encrusted into his armour. Legends claim it is the first gemstone found and crafted by dwarfen hands. And its light shall harm all those who which the dwarf’s harm. Contrary to the High King of Karaz-a-Karak he has no throne to which he is bound. He can fight on his own two feet but is also carried by his shield bearers into battle.
    (Sidenote: One inspiration for him was Prester John, a fictious christian king south of Egypt who was used as propaganda, as his support would help the crusaders conquering the holy land. This however is a small subversion, as this dwarfen variant wants the Karaz Ankor for himself.)

    7.2 Zama the kinslayer:
    Zama is the chieftain of the Farka people, one of the many human tribes that were accepted as servants by the desert dwarfs. For generations, his tribe lived in their realm, farming the land and living a simple life, as long as they followed the dwarfen rules.
    Over time the Farka tribe grew, much quicker than the dwarfen populations. And with their numbers grew their hybris. Zamars own father had enough of cowing in front of their dwarfen superiors and following their commands. He often spoke about how the dwarfs were misusing them, sending their warriors to die in droves, to cull their numbers. That the taxes and oaths of their dwarfen superiors were meant to keep them small. That the dwarfs grew fat and rich on the backs and labour of the Farka people. That it was time to act against them, to use their advantage in numbers. Many of his tribe listened with joy. And soon these words were followed by acts. Zamas Father declared his independence and in a swift strike killed and shaved many dwarfs, taking control of the region. The dwarfs did not suspect their fellow manlings, who were so loyal and indebted to them for generations, to rise up in such a massive revolt. Many dawi were butchered without any honour, in ambushes, in private meetings or stabbed in the backs by their loyal servants. Many, many grudges were written, and the dwarfs mustered to answer for this betrayal.
    Zama was torn apart, as he had always seen the dwarfs as their brothers in arms and life. He never whished them any harm, nor did he listen to his father’s speeches. What oath was more important? The loyalty one owed to his father, or the loyalty owed to his king? This conflict tore Zama apart from the inside. But finally, he made a choice.
    Zama renounced his father and fled with those part of this people who did not want to join the revolt. Thus did the fought against his own family in the coming battles. To honour his loyalty and actions the local dwarf king symbolically adopted Zama, giving them the privileges of a minor dwarfen noble. Thus is Zama no allowed to lead armies of the Dawi Izor into battle, together with his own human soldiers. But still his actions lead to many, both man and dwarf, seeing him as a kinslayer and have reserved opinions on him.

    Zama got a masterfully crafted Linothorax which offers a great deal of protection, whilst keeping him flexible. This light dwarfen armour is further improved with Runes to protect against the heat and the cold of the desert, giving Zama and advantage when he is scouting ahead of the main dwarfed army. Together with a spear, also rune-crafted, he leads the vanguard forces of the desert dwarfs into battle.

    7.3 Guttrik Firehelm:
    Guttrik Firehelm is a hothead in every sense of the dwarfs. And by the standards of many dwarfs he is one the brink to insanity. Whereas proper desert dwarfs tend their gardens, let water flow, he is obsessed with fire. As an apprentice he travelled with his master to the suflur springs and volcanic death lands of the southlands. He went to Araby to see real fire magic. And some sources even claim, that the ventured into the northeast, to far northeast into the darklands. But that’s all the desert dwarfs wills say about it. All these journeys did Guttrik undertake, just to understand fire. Because fire for Guttrik is as close as a dwarf can to wield magic. It is a force that transfigures any material. Nothing touched by fire stays the same afterwards. Even rocks will crumble and melt, as can be seen with volcanos. So if dwarfs properly want to smith and craft their goods, they need to understand fire, as it is involved in every task of their lifes. Even the farmers of the Dawi Izor need fire to bake their bread, brew their beer, and their crops need the sunlight, which comes from the fiery sun. For Guttrik Fire is the spark, the energy, that keeps the world in motion. As such he tries to understand and utilize it.
    For this purpose did he create a wide variety of machines, chemicals and weapons. He crafted mixture desert fire so potent, that it burns even through stone. That it can even burn dragons and extinguish warpfire used by the skaven. Such a volatile substance is of course highly restricted, as Guttrik had some accidents in the past.
    Most of his body is covered by burns and scars. Even his beard went aflame ones. A shame for any dwarf, but Guttrik sees is as a sign of honour from his craft (hence why the dwarfs see him as insane).

    To protect his body from further damages he developed a special armour, which can be set on fire without harming the dwarf wearing it. Indeed with one movement he can even set his armour aflame through a set of small tubes and pistons ejecting burning substances.
    He also wears an axe, which has similar properties and thus can be set on fire with the press of a button. He can also use his self-constructed Fire Siphon. But despite his obvious madness, he is partially tolerated by the other desert dwarfs due to his effectiveness in combat.

    7.4 Fardin Mimson:
    Fardin Mimson is a runelord of the Dawi Izor. The loss of Karak Zorn and the disconnection from the Karaz Ankor has left to much loss in knowledge. This is something the runesmiths mourn to this day. And many try to recreate or rediscover them. Fardin Mimson is of the same stroke as the rest of his guild. But whereas the other runesmiths try in vein to find some old runes or sometimes even try to contact their northern relatives, Fardin looks not north or east. As a lord of his guild he knows why Karak Zorn fell, but does not speak about it. Though some of his actions appear to give some insight. Fardin hates Lizardmen with a passion after all. Whenever he can afford he will sent expeditions into the southern jungles to hunt them down and sack their cities. He has a special obsession with the sacred tablets themselves and the knowledge carved into them. Something which the Lizardmen will not tolerate.
    Fardin too wishes to reclaim Karak Zorn. But whereas his liege Marduk musters his forces to retake Karak Zorn in a convential way, Fardin is looking for something else. A key, a symbol or even a rune on one of the sacred plates? A prophecy maybe which speaks of the return of the Dawi into their ancestral home? Or maybe a description on how Grungni and his son first learned the rune craft? No one knows for sure, as this secretive dwarf keeps his intentions well hidden. Indeed some may question why he searches for runes in lizardmen temples, and why he is obsessed with the relics of the Old Ones. As if they were the ones who taught Grungni and his kin runesmithing? This thought is laughed at even by many of his colleges. But there is no shortage of voluntaries to join his expedition. Fardin is a powerful runelord after all. And even if he does not find what he is looking for, gold and gems are still to be gained in abundance.

    Instruments like the Anvil of Doom are unknown to the runelords of the south, as they have forgotten and lost so much. But Fardin is still talented runelord who can use many runes in battle. Furthermore he crafted much of his equipment himself, such as his rune-armour which makes him impervious to even a carnosaurs bite. But he is also able to use some of the Old One artefacts he has collected and studied over the centuries. Among these things is a spear with a miniature solar engine encased in. This sunlance can fire a short beam of heat and light if necessary, burning through even the thickest lizardhide.


    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,199
    I could see Desert Dwarf with Runecrafted Glass weapon, not much steel to make in a desert, but glass that much plentiful
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    arthadaw said:

    I could see Desert Dwarf with Runecrafted Glass weapon, not much steel to make in a desert, but glass that much plentiful

    That is an interesting idea I did not think about. Of course pure glass is too fragil, but maybe artifical obsidian-like weapons could be made.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • TancredQuenellesTancredQuenelles Registered Users Posts: 909
    sykall said:

    Hey everyone,

    A past thread got me thinking about dwarfs in fantasy in general. I like dwarfs very much, but I am often bothered about the limited range they have over various fictious works. That they are very similar if not almost identical across multiple works. Whereas elves, trolls, orcs & co can come in various flavours and incarnations dwarfs are always rough, pragmatic, rudely honest & grudge keeping, hardworking mountainfolk with a love for alcohol, mining, treasures, and axes. If you are lucky, you have evil dwarfs too. And if you are very lucky some dwarfs like the surface as much as the underground, and they have cities there too.
    But I think more could be done with this people. Warhammer already has two or three different groups of dwarfs (depending on how you categorize the norscan dwarfs), and thus offer more diversity for their beardlings than most other fantasy universes. Especially as chaos dwarfs are different form basic dwarfs in many aspects.
    And further hints at the diversity of dwarfen culture can be found in minor sources about expatriate dwarfs in human cities or the grey mountain dwarfs.
    Still, I wanted to explore a new concept for the dwarfs. As the Warhammer setting has many white spots devoid of unique content or content in general, I decided to renew my series of just-for-fun faction pitches with this new dwarfen culture.
    This concept is in my opinion very conservative, as I orientated myself closely to what we know about Warhammer dwarfs, to make the faction fit the setting better. But I hope it is still enjoyable.

    This thread is not meant to be taken seriously but is just for entertainment purposes or to pass the time during Covid. And it is supposed to show some untapped potential of dwarfs in fantasy, or the potential of the white spots in the wider Warhammer fantasy setting.

    In this case the dwarfs are remnants of Karak Zorn who migrated into the deserts south of Nehekhara and Araby. I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold, having more stamina than normal human. It would not take many changes to see dwarfs as a humanoid camel. Not to mention that they could use their ingenuity and architectural strengths there too.
    Also, Warhammer as a setting is famous for containing white spots devoid of any content. One look at the world map is enough to see this. That is why I decided to use the Warhammer setting to place this semi-original take on dwarfs.
    As always if you like my concepts for some reason, you are free to use them in any way, form and shape you want. They are all meant as basic templates to be enjoyed and potentially build upon after all.

    Lastly like any of my faction concepts, the desert dwarfs are a stand-alone creation. So, you do not need to know any of my previous works. But if you are interested in more, here are the links to the previous works:

    Epunt: and ehtiopian-based human civilization in the southlands.
    Chon: an anti-chaos harpy-like faction in the west of the new world.
    Tanites: a deep sea faction of aquatic horrors.
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260636/just-for-fun-three-made-up-warhammer-factions

    Eddu confederacy: a confederacy of sasquatch-like ogres, elves and halflings in central naggaroth. Izwan: A human oligarchy in the southern darklands, based on Perisa, Palmyria and Carthage
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260978/just-for-fun-part-2-two-made-up-warhammer-factions

    Characters for the five factions, See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/262448/just-for-fun-3-characters

    Nethun: a coastal, marine faction based on medival and antique myths about seapeople and mermaids.
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/267880/just-for-fun-part-4-a-single-made-up-faction

    I hope you enjoy the read.

    Just for fun - read the lore. Maybe then your threads ll be worth reading.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    edited April 2021

    sykall said:

    Hey everyone,

    A past thread got me thinking about dwarfs in fantasy in general. I like dwarfs very much, but I am often bothered about the limited range they have over various fictious works. That they are very similar if not almost identical across multiple works. Whereas elves, trolls, orcs & co can come in various flavours and incarnations dwarfs are always rough, pragmatic, rudely honest & grudge keeping, hardworking mountainfolk with a love for alcohol, mining, treasures, and axes. If you are lucky, you have evil dwarfs too. And if you are very lucky some dwarfs like the surface as much as the underground, and they have cities there too.
    But I think more could be done with this people. Warhammer already has two or three different groups of dwarfs (depending on how you categorize the norscan dwarfs), and thus offer more diversity for their beardlings than most other fantasy universes. Especially as chaos dwarfs are different form basic dwarfs in many aspects.
    And further hints at the diversity of dwarfen culture can be found in minor sources about expatriate dwarfs in human cities or the grey mountain dwarfs.
    Still, I wanted to explore a new concept for the dwarfs. As the Warhammer setting has many white spots devoid of unique content or content in general, I decided to renew my series of just-for-fun faction pitches with this new dwarfen culture.
    This concept is in my opinion very conservative, as I orientated myself closely to what we know about Warhammer dwarfs, to make the faction fit the setting better. But I hope it is still enjoyable.

    This thread is not meant to be taken seriously but is just for entertainment purposes or to pass the time during Covid. And it is supposed to show some untapped potential of dwarfs in fantasy, or the potential of the white spots in the wider Warhammer fantasy setting.

    In this case the dwarfs are remnants of Karak Zorn who migrated into the deserts south of Nehekhara and Araby. I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold, having more stamina than normal human. It would not take many changes to see dwarfs as a humanoid camel. Not to mention that they could use their ingenuity and architectural strengths there too.
    Also, Warhammer as a setting is famous for containing white spots devoid of any content. One look at the world map is enough to see this. That is why I decided to use the Warhammer setting to place this semi-original take on dwarfs.
    As always if you like my concepts for some reason, you are free to use them in any way, form and shape you want. They are all meant as basic templates to be enjoyed and potentially build upon after all.

    Lastly like any of my faction concepts, the desert dwarfs are a stand-alone creation. So, you do not need to know any of my previous works. But if you are interested in more, here are the links to the previous works:

    Epunt: and ehtiopian-based human civilization in the southlands.
    Chon: an anti-chaos harpy-like faction in the west of the new world.
    Tanites: a deep sea faction of aquatic horrors.
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260636/just-for-fun-three-made-up-warhammer-factions

    Eddu confederacy: a confederacy of sasquatch-like ogres, elves and halflings in central naggaroth. Izwan: A human oligarchy in the southern darklands, based on Perisa, Palmyria and Carthage
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/260978/just-for-fun-part-2-two-made-up-warhammer-factions

    Characters for the five factions, See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/262448/just-for-fun-3-characters

    Nethun: a coastal, marine faction based on medival and antique myths about seapeople and mermaids.
    See: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/267880/just-for-fun-part-4-a-single-made-up-faction

    I hope you enjoy the read.

    Just for fun - read the lore. Maybe then your threads ll be worth reading.
    Well it is diffuclt to find lore about places which are mostly devoid of unique content, like so much of the southern Southlands and the central regions of naggaroth or the western coast of lustira are. If you know which lore talks about these areas in concret terms and definitive content, you are free to tell me :smiley: But as GWs focuses primarily on the old world, many areas are just devoid of any meaningful or fixed lore. Mostly empty spots on a map.

    Of course my concepts contain deviations of some concepts here and there, but rarley did I came up with compelty new things. Mostly I just recycled things GWs used itself or hinted at.

    E.g. the skaven are a chaos spawned faction not priamrily aligned with the four chaos gods. And the wind of order, Hyish, comes from the realm of chaos itself as all magic does. So the concept of order within chaos exists. Combine the two things and you get the Chon. A faction born from the influence of chaos, but is not aligned with it and even focused on fighting against it.

    Or we know that the elves had colonies in Naggaroth, e.g. Arnheim, before the Druchii made ladefall there. What happened to the other colonies? Did all become slaves? Or were some able to evade this fate?
    Furthermore we know that before the arrival of chaos a landbridge between Naggaroth and the far east existed. It exists even now, but is probably very hard pass.
    We also know that the ogres and halfings are somehow connected and especially the first have a huge wanderlust. Not to mention that shaggy ogre subspecies like the ythees exist too. Others could as well if the conditions are met.
    So ogres and halflings could have migrated into Naggaroth before chaos made the traversion impossible.
    Elven colonists, ogres and halfings could then teamed up in central naggaroth and have a grudge against druchii, who want to ensalve all three of them, could be a possibility. Of course no clue exists in GWs canon for any of this, but really there is very little information about naggaroth outside of the DE domain in the first place.

    As I said I am not ignoring the lore from my point of view, but just taking pieces and remould them. The degree of freedom I use is mostly based on personal choices and opinions. If I am too freestyle for your liking, okay. But if you have a concrete critism I would be interest in hearing it. :smile:

    But from the choice of your words I am of the opinion, that you just read the headlines and then got annoyed, without reading any of it.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • X037X037 Registered Users Posts: 45
    edited April 2021
    sykall said:

    I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold

    Their stout body shape should render them particularly unsuited for heat, though: low surface-to-mass ratio. So maybe this is just a myth.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    X037 said:

    sykall said:

    I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold

    Their stout body shape should render them particularly unsuited for heat, though: low surface-to-mass ratio. So maybe this is just a myth.
    In that regard you are right, a better surface to volume ratio would be exzellent to get over the excess heat. Hence why many desert mammals are small but have huge ears or other enlarged body parts. And from a purley realworld perspective the dwarfen shape would be problematic when trying to cool yourself.
    However the nights can also be very cold and fall below 0 degrees celsius. So just focussing on excessing heat is fatal too.

    The main reason why I focussed on the dwarfs was not their body plan, but rather their informed robustness that lets them endure warmer and colder climates relative unfazed. (It can get very hot underground too after all. Not to mention the smith workshops). Also this robustness may allow them to better cope for periods without water or food.

    Humans are in most ways better adapted to hot enviroments. We originate from african savannahs after all. But we our cooling system is also very water depenend. (No animal can sweat as good as we can, keeping us cool even when excercising in hot temperatures. Together with bipedal walk these traits were probably more important for our global sucess than our intelligence).
    So in deserts humans can cope very good with the heat, but suffer when no water is available or it gets to cold.

    That is why I compared dwarfs with camels to an extend. As these animals are also good at coping with both heat and cold, and can survive without ressources.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,463
    9th Age (the fanmade continuation of Warhammer Fantasy) has some fantastic concept art for divergent Dwarf cultures.















  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457

    9th Age (the fanmade continuation of Warhammer Fantasy) has some fantastic concept art for divergent Dwarf cultures.















    I did not know that exist. Very cool. Especially the last two are kinda how I pictured my desert dwarfs.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,401
    A nice read.
    I generally don't like fanfiction here, but this is well-thought out and detailed which makes it more interested to me personally.
    Good job, OP

  • MalalforthewinMalalforthewin Registered Users Posts: 453

    sykall said:

    X037 said:

    sykall said:

    I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold

    Their stout body shape should render them particularly unsuited for heat, though: low surface-to-mass ratio. So maybe this is just a myth.
    In that regard you are right, a better surface to volume ratio would be exzellent to get over the excess heat. Hence why many desert mammals are small but have huge ears or other enlarged body parts. And from a purley realworld perspective the dwarfen shape would be problematic when trying to cool yourself.
    However the nights can also be very cold and fall below 0 degrees celsius. So just focussing on excessing heat is fatal too.

    The main reason why I focussed on the dwarfs was not their body plan, but rather their informed robustness that lets them endure warmer and colder climates relative unfazed. (It can get very hot underground too after all. Not to mention the smith workshops). Also this robustness may allow them to better cope for periods without water or food.

    Humans are in most ways better adapted to hot enviroments. We originate from african savannahs after all. But we our cooling system is also very water depenend. (No animal can sweat as good as we can, keeping us cool even when excercising in hot temperatures. Together with bipedal walk these traits were probably more important for our global sucess than our intelligence).
    So in deserts humans can cope very good with the heat, but suffer when no water is available or it gets to cold.

    That is why I compared dwarfs with camels to an extend. As these animals are also good at coping with both heat and cold, and can survive without ressources.
    or maybe remember the game is called warhammer and is based on its lore and not mad fantasies of guys who do not know its lore and have no creativity to create their own universe so they make strange useless proposals for fun

    sykall said:

    X037 said:

    sykall said:

    I think dwarfs could be suited for a desert environment, as they are often described as resistant to both heat and cold

    Their stout body shape should render them particularly unsuited for heat, though: low surface-to-mass ratio. So maybe this is just a myth.
    In that regard you are right, a better surface to volume ratio would be exzellent to get over the excess heat. Hence why many desert mammals are small but have huge ears or other enlarged body parts. And from a purley realworld perspective the dwarfen shape would be problematic when trying to cool yourself.
    However the nights can also be very cold and fall below 0 degrees celsius. So just focussing on excessing heat is fatal too.

    The main reason why I focussed on the dwarfs was not their body plan, but rather their informed robustness that lets them endure warmer and colder climates relative unfazed. (It can get very hot underground too after all. Not to mention the smith workshops). Also this robustness may allow them to better cope for periods without water or food.

    Humans are in most ways better adapted to hot enviroments. We originate from african savannahs after all. But we our cooling system is also very water depenend. (No animal can sweat as good as we can, keeping us cool even when excercising in hot temperatures. Together with bipedal walk these traits were probably more important for our global sucess than our intelligence).
    So in deserts humans can cope very good with the heat, but suffer when no water is available or it gets to cold.

    That is why I compared dwarfs with camels to an extend. As these animals are also good at coping with both heat and cold, and can survive without ressources.
    or maybe remember the game is called warhammer and is based on its lore and not mad fantasies of guys who do not know its lore and have no creativity to create their own universe so they make strange useless proposals for fun
    or maybe this is a forum about sharing new ideas and you are taking this personally for some reason? The OP even said that it was his invention. He does not pretend like it is in the lore or anything. So, if you don't like it, just don't read the thread. No need to be a douch.
  • kratostatickratostatic Registered Users Posts: 806
    As always this is excellent. Keep doing what you're doing!
  • TancredQuenellesTancredQuenelles Registered Users Posts: 909
    Creativity is interesting if it fits style and logic of the setting lore.

    I m annoyed because here I m interesting in sharing opinions about warhammer univerce not other or odd fanfics and read news and rumours.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Registered Users Posts: 563
    Imagine the rage of Araby fans if CA gave us Desert Dwarves instead if the defacto Desert Human faction lol.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    Imagine the rage of Araby fans if CA gave us Desert Dwarves instead if the defacto Desert Human faction lol.

    I still have hope for Araby at one point in the trilogy. At one point in the trilogy...
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,850
    Very interesting read OP, I really like the idea of the dwarfs of karak zorn thinking their king should be the high king as he was the first dwarf king ever.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Silver Pinacle, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457

    Very interesting read OP, I really like the idea of the dwarfs of karak zorn thinking their king should be the high king as he was the first dwarf king ever.

    Thank you and all the others who enjoy this thread:smile:

    I thought this idea was a logical consequence given how important loyalty to the elders is in dwarfen society. That this extends to karaks as well was already part of dwarfen society.
    E.g. many holds of the grey mountains are seen as junior upstarts by the karaks of the WEM, even though they are antique by human standards.

    So I wanted a way to bring this line of thinking to a logical conclusion with the descendants of the Karak Zorn. Also I liked this part as it gave some reason for animosity between the two groups. And it gave the desert dwarfs a natural source self-confidence against their relatives, even though they adopted a different lifestyle.

    In the end I always found it a pitty, that so little was known about the first dwarf city. I thought such a place should be of critiqual importance to the traditionalist dawi. Probably more so the Karak eight peaks or other lost holds. It is the first hold ever after all, and the likley birthplace of the ancestor gods. So its importance is hard to understate.
    It also offers much fertile ground for speculation on the beginnings of the dwarfs and the foundation of the karaz ankor.

    What were the ancestor gods? Truly the first dwarfs ever, or just the first to be taught by the old ones, akin to how the elves were taught magic by Lord Kroak?
    If there was a first city there must have been a first king, right? Why is he never mentioned?
    Why was Karaz-a-Karak the new capital, so far away from Karak Zorn? Why was the city forgotten by the nothern dawi? What happened to the dwarfs that state behind?
    Was there maybe a forgotten dispute, and the ancestor gods were just the leaders of dwarfen coloniests looking for a fortune in exile? Or are the dwarf sagas literal in every word?

    These are just some of the intrueging questions about the beginning of the dawi, that could be explored through Karak Zorn. Not to mention the vague mystery of its supposed fall.
    But Karak Zorn, as so much else of the southlands, was little more than a spot on a map :neutral:
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • TancredQuenellesTancredQuenelles Registered Users Posts: 909
    it is not in THE LORE - it s obvious.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 16,107

    it is not in THE LORE - it s obvious.

    We know it is just for fun.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • kratostatickratostatic Registered Users Posts: 806

    it is not in THE LORE - it s obvious.

    THE LORE isn't some immutable thing. Are the Slaan part of the Lizardmen or a seperate race? Depends on the edition. Is Eltharion blind? Depends on the edition. Nothing would stop CA adding these in with fairly minimal impact on THE LORE as it existed in 8th edition.

    And besides Is there anything in THE LORE that contradicts this, or does this contradict any of THE LORE that exists? Not as far as I'm aware. We know virtually nothing about the Southlands south of Nehekara, Karak Zorn is a "lost hold" so by definition the Karaz Ankor don't know what's going on down here.

    As it is, it is fanfiction for sure, but it doesn't break anything we know about the existing parts of THE LORE while adding something very cool, as do the other additions of sykall. Well, warm in this case.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,850
    sykall said:

    Very interesting read OP, I really like the idea of the dwarfs of karak zorn thinking their king should be the high king as he was the first dwarf king ever.

    Thank you and all the others who enjoy this thread:smile:

    I thought this idea was a logical consequence given how important loyalty to the elders is in dwarfen society. That this extends to karaks as well was already part of dwarfen society.
    E.g. many holds of the grey mountains are seen as junior upstarts by the karaks of the WEM, even though they are antique by human standards.

    So I wanted a way to bring this line of thinking to a logical conclusion with the descendants of the Karak Zorn. Also I liked this part as it gave some reason for animosity between the two groups. And it gave the desert dwarfs a natural source self-confidence against their relatives, even though they adopted a different lifestyle.

    In the end I always found it a pitty, that so little was known about the first dwarf city. I thought such a place should be of critiqual importance to the traditionalist dawi. Probably more so the Karak eight peaks or other lost holds. It is the first hold ever after all, and the likley birthplace of the ancestor gods. So its importance is hard to understate.
    It also offers much fertile ground for speculation on the beginnings of the dwarfs and the foundation of the karaz ankor.

    What were the ancestor gods? Truly the first dwarfs ever, or just the first to be taught by the old ones, akin to how the elves were taught magic by Lord Kroak?
    If there was a first city there must have been a first king, right? Why is he never mentioned?
    Why was Karaz-a-Karak the new capital, so far away from Karak Zorn? Why was the city forgotten by the nothern dawi? What happened to the dwarfs that state behind?
    Was there maybe a forgotten dispute, and the ancestor gods were just the leaders of dwarfen coloniests looking for a fortune in exile? Or are the dwarf sagas literal in every word?

    These are just some of the intrueging questions about the beginning of the dawi, that could be explored through Karak Zorn. Not to mention the vague mystery of its supposed fall.
    But Karak Zorn, as so much else of the southlands, was little more than a spot on a map :neutral:
    I had never though of that, now that I think about it it is posible that the ancestor gods had a dispute with the king of karak zorn for power, the first claimed that they were blessed by the creators and so they should lead, and the later claimed that he was still the king and their duty was to obey him. As a result they and their followers were exiled. The exiled dwarfs decided to not talk about it just like they dont talk about the chaos dwarfs and over the generations the dwarfs as a whole forgot everything about the matter.

    This woud explain why so little is known about karak zorn and why all the other karaks are so far away from it.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Silver Pinacle, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    edited April 2021

    sykall said:

    Very interesting read OP, I really like the idea of the dwarfs of karak zorn thinking their king should be the high king as he was the first dwarf king ever.

    Thank you and all the others who enjoy this thread:smile:

    I thought this idea was a logical consequence given how important loyalty to the elders is in dwarfen society. That this extends to karaks as well was already part of dwarfen society.
    E.g. many holds of the grey mountains are seen as junior upstarts by the karaks of the WEM, even though they are antique by human standards.

    So I wanted a way to bring this line of thinking to a logical conclusion with the descendants of the Karak Zorn. Also I liked this part as it gave some reason for animosity between the two groups. And it gave the desert dwarfs a natural source self-confidence against their relatives, even though they adopted a different lifestyle.

    In the end I always found it a pitty, that so little was known about the first dwarf city. I thought such a place should be of critiqual importance to the traditionalist dawi. Probably more so the Karak eight peaks or other lost holds. It is the first hold ever after all, and the likley birthplace of the ancestor gods. So its importance is hard to understate.
    It also offers much fertile ground for speculation on the beginnings of the dwarfs and the foundation of the karaz ankor.

    What were the ancestor gods? Truly the first dwarfs ever, or just the first to be taught by the old ones, akin to how the elves were taught magic by Lord Kroak?
    If there was a first city there must have been a first king, right? Why is he never mentioned?
    Why was Karaz-a-Karak the new capital, so far away from Karak Zorn? Why was the city forgotten by the nothern dawi? What happened to the dwarfs that state behind?
    Was there maybe a forgotten dispute, and the ancestor gods were just the leaders of dwarfen coloniests looking for a fortune in exile? Or are the dwarf sagas literal in every word?

    These are just some of the intrueging questions about the beginning of the dawi, that could be explored through Karak Zorn. Not to mention the vague mystery of its supposed fall.
    But Karak Zorn, as so much else of the southlands, was little more than a spot on a map :neutral:
    I had never though of that, now that I think about it it is posible that the ancestor gods had a dispute with the king of karak zorn for power, the first claimed that they were blessed by the creators and so they should lead, and the later claimed that he was still the king and their duty was to obey him. As a result they and their followers were exiled. The exiled dwarfs decided to not talk about it just like they dont talk about the chaos dwarfs and over the generations the dwarfs as a whole forgot everything about the matter.

    This woud explain why so little is known about karak zorn and why all the other karaks are so far away from it.
    That could have been a possibilty. Or given how stubborn dwarfs can be, it could have been some basic ideological difference or a heavy grudge, that drove a schism between those dwarfs following the ancestor gods north, and those who remained.
    I have written the desert dwarfs with some internal conflict at the beginning of dwarfen expansion in mind. But I did not want to get too specific, as I did not want to touch that part of the lore. My faction concepts are just basic templates after all and people shall come up with their own expansions and explanations if they so whish. For the same reason I did not specify why Karak Zorn was abandoned. I find it better if other people come to their own conclusion what may have happened there.

    Of course GW could come out and say, that it was a very mundane affair. The dwarfs were just expanded north looking for ressources and kinda forgot about Karak Zorn as it was no longer economicly important. Or something like that. Though given the importance of tradition and knowing someones roots in dwarfen society this is somewhat unlikley. And speculating about this topic is very intrueging and one excellent mystery in dwarfen lore.
    Post edited by sykall on
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • TancredQuenellesTancredQuenelles Registered Users Posts: 909
    Karak Zorn is in the mountains and jungles and IIRC was destroyed by lisards. Also it and dwarf fraction in lustria bevondered me I d say. Better d they put scaven there
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,457
    edited April 2021

    Karak Zorn is in the mountains and jungles and IIRC was destroyed by lisards. Also it and dwarf fraction in lustria bevondered me I d say. Better d they put scaven there

    Yes Karak Zorn was/is in the mountains/jungles of the southern WEM. Did you thought I placed it in the desert for some reason? Did you even read anything the introduction of this thread before complaining? :D

    But as far as I am aware it is not known for sure that the Lizardmen destroyed the city. That is just a theorythe fkuff presents. But at the same time it is stated that its real fate is unkown. Other forces could have destrlyed it too. Skaven for example or undead or an completly unkown/unmentioned force from somewhere in the Southlands.

    That CA placed dwarfs there is probably owed to the structure of the Southlands. As I said there is no real content south of nehekhara. And CA had to fill this spot with something and at the same time wanted to create diversity in AI factions. Just putting skaven everywhere gets monotone very quickly.
    For the same reason where the sotek dwarfs created. Despite the huge size of the mountain range it too lacks any content after all and is just a white spot on a map.

    BTW thats one of the reason why I tried to create more interesting but unique stuff for some of these areas.
    Post edited by sykall on
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,594
    Off topic trolling remarks removed, along with those quoting with a response.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

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