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  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,644

    Canuovea said:

    I find the Agree/Disagree buttons to be good because it removes those obnoxious "Spam" and "Abuse" buttons that did nothing but waste our time and express dislike. This just makes it what it really was.

    Yet we've already seen.... How many threads devolved into discussing likes and dislikes or threads exclusively about using the like and dislike button?

    I don't see a reason to have an anonymous hit stick.
    Its the same as how Flag was anonymous, it does the same thing without wasting the mods time. Thats the real intent here.
    Beastmen

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,883

    Canuovea said:

    I find the Agree/Disagree buttons to be good because it removes those obnoxious "Spam" and "Abuse" buttons that did nothing but waste our time and express dislike. This just makes it what it really was.

    Yet we've already seen.... How many threads devolved into discussing likes and dislikes or threads exclusively about using the like and dislike button?

    I don't see a reason to have an anonymous hit stick.
    You mean like any new feature that crops up gets discussed? Repeatedly. Seems rather normal for this forum to me.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 2,444
    Maybe the solution to the problem of people misusing buttons, is to make a clear and definite rule that says 'do not misuse the buttons'?

    Heaven forbid any online community bothers governing by rules, rather than giving as much license for decision-makers to make whatever decision they want.
  • XxXScorpionXxXXxXScorpionXxX Registered Users Posts: 2,830
    edited April 17

    Maybe the solution to the problem of people misusing buttons, is to make a clear and definite rule that says 'do not misuse the buttons'?

    Heaven forbid any online community bothers governing by rules, rather than giving as much license for decision-makers to make whatever decision they want.

    The problem is that alot of this is subjective. Offensive, Trolling, etc.

    It involves assuming intent on the part of the user. As I've said before companies couldn't be less interested in online no lifers like us. They much rather just give complete control to the unpaid mods and let them do everything. Which I think is BS. Mods deserve to be paid for their service.
    Request scorched body textures, poisoned dying animations for infantry's skeletons, a blood slider that allows us to control how much blood appears in battle and make proper death animations for all ethereal units so they vanish for Blood for the Blood God 3.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,644

    Maybe the solution to the problem of people misusing buttons, is to make a clear and definite rule that says 'do not misuse the buttons'?

    Heaven forbid any online community bothers governing by rules, rather than giving as much license for decision-makers to make whatever decision they want.

    Or, just click that Disagree/Agree, and move on.
    Beastmen

  • CyresdogCyresdog Registered Users Posts: 629
    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    But why is this entire forum so hella inefficiently designed then.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    Cyresdog said:

    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    But why is this entire forum so hella inefficiently designed then.
    I don't know. I don't design it, and nor do CA. It is hosted by someone else.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • CyresdogCyresdog Registered Users Posts: 629
    Canuovea said:

    Cyresdog said:

    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    But why is this entire forum so hella inefficiently designed then.
    I don't know. I don't design it, and nor do CA. It is hosted by someone else.
    So the official forums is officially unofficial.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    Cyresdog said:

    Canuovea said:

    Cyresdog said:

    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    But why is this entire forum so hella inefficiently designed then.
    I don't know. I don't design it, and nor do CA. It is hosted by someone else.
    So the official forums is officially unofficial.
    I think most forums are hosted by some other site. I doubt most build their own from the ground up, but I could be wrong.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 2,444
    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    Rules should exist to make it easier for rule-abiding people to participate. Rules should not exist to make it easier for those enforcing them to do as they please.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,644

    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    Rules should exist to make it easier for rule-abiding people to participate. Rules should not exist to make it easier for those enforcing them to do as they please.
    Whats making it harder for you, as a rule abiding person?
    Beastmen

  • XxXScorpionXxXXxXScorpionXxX Registered Users Posts: 2,830
    edited April 17
    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.
    Request scorched body textures, poisoned dying animations for infantry's skeletons, a blood slider that allows us to control how much blood appears in battle and make proper death animations for all ethereal units so they vanish for Blood for the Blood God 3.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,644
    Canuovea said:

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    I dont know, I think you are my favorite.
    Beastmen

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    Surge_2 said:

    Canuovea said:

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    I dont know, I think you are my favorite.
    Fishing for compliments (and being only on sporadically) is what makes me the worst.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 10,582
    Canuovea said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Canuovea said:

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    I dont know, I think you are my favorite.
    Fishing for compliments (and being only on sporadically) is what makes me the worst.
    I want to comment why you're not the worst but I probably should not if I wish to keep my account.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 26,667
    Canuovea said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Canuovea said:

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    I dont know, I think you are my favorite.
    Fishing for compliments (and being only on sporadically) is what makes me the worst.
    If I or anyone else actually respond to this seriously then it's commenting on mod actions and against the rules.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 2,444
    Surge_2 said:

    Canuovea said:

    We have more than enough to deal with without policing misuse of the Spam/Abuse buttons. You'll notice that the only option is the more effective "Report" option now, and there is indeed a prohibition against misusing that in the rules.

    An efficient system is easier to run.

    Rules should exist to make it easier for rule-abiding people to participate. Rules should not exist to make it easier for those enforcing them to do as they please.
    Whats making it harder for you, as a rule abiding person?
    Rules being written to be as vague as possible, to enable other rules to be made up as often as possible, are the worst thing for anyone trying to stay within the rules as much as possible.

    Unfortunately, this system of vague all-encompassing rules; the rule of 'because we said so', is the default for almost all online communities, including those around games.

    Then companies pretend the 'toxic community' problem is down to something other than their own doing, and 'invent' various tough policies to deal with it, but they're the same ones that keep failing and actually make the problem worse. One of those bad ideas is allowing users to rate each others posts, then publicly displaying said ratings.

    Most bad ideas effectively disappear when the issues they cause are obvious(Blizzard's Real ID, after an employee saw what happened when they revealed their real name to the forum). With ratings, the issues do not usually affect said company or those who policing online communities, so ratings remain.

    However, recently the problem with public user ratings has caused problems for some sites: Rotten Tomatoes, Youtube etc. This has taken years to reach a tipping-point, but we've arrived at it and the response from the companies running these websites has been predictable.

    One of the first things tried when bad ideas affect companies and their partners is that some users become privileged. Blizzard exempted their own employees from the Real ID system even before it launched; because at least one person knew it was a bad idea. RT now heavily filter audience ratings for films. Youtube has implemented channel controls already that prevent video ratings being displayed and are about to trial hiding the dislikes-only by default.

    Amazon allows for products and vendors to be rated, but so do many online stores. It's a problem for small independent ones which are easily targeted by rivals using bots, but the companies do nothing because it doesn't hurt them. When it does, they will change it and often it will make things worse for most ordinary users, whether customers or merchants, and create a stratified system of privilege.

    I've been warned before simply because a mod couldn't be bothered reading my post and what I was replying to. I've been warned here for responding to racial abuse from another(now perma-banned) user, but because the post with the abuse was taken down, there was only my quote-reply to show it happened and the abuse was allowed to continue.

    There is no moderator anywhere on the internet that can be trusted to be fair when they are given carte blanche to decide what is and isn't okay.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,644
    I dont know dude, I've never read the rules, wont, and the buttons are here for my entertainment, in fact, thats the role each and every one of you play to me.

    Much ado, about nothing.
    Beastmen

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    edited April 18
    This is a good example of how the rules would work in this situation.

    1) If you have an actual problem with a moderator, as per the rules, you should PM them (or another moderator). They don't have to respond, but its the best way to go about it... as long as you're not abusive. I recommend against sending abusive communications to anyone via PM as doing so still counts as harassment.

    2) Airing actual grievances here would be off topic, I suppose, as well as commenting on moderator actions, but doing so via PM to the mods or CA is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. Mods are not necessarily able to do whatever they want. Indeed, mods have apparently been removed in the past. That being said, sometimes what you think is a flaw in or mistake by a mod is not.

    3) Not that I could moderate it anyway, if the comments were aimed at me, as it is usually best for a moderator to moderate as neutrally as possible. If something were said in this thread, especially specifically directed against me, I'd probably ask dge1 or BillyRuffian, or whoever else ends up as a mod, to take a look at it. Sometimes it might not be possible because people aren't available, but that is best practice.


    (Also, I was being a tongue in cheek, but I consider myself the worst moderator because I don't have as much time to be doing it. I might be online a lot, but that's not always the same as being able to moderate. For my own sanity sometimes. I have an obsessive personality and tend to go through spurts of activity, and this forum is not always healthy for me to be involved with over excessive periods of time, so when I find myself angry or annoyed in my daily life it is usually a time to take a step back. That being said, I do try to be of help to the other mods when I can, especially during periods of high activity. For those who think too well of me, it is easier perhaps because I am around less and therefore less likely to bother you with my decisions).


    Also, previously there was already a point system. What you were reported for and your likes and such were recorded. You could look at how many abuse or spam flags someone got. Unfortunately, the meaning of those was not clear, and could be very very vague. With people using spam and abuse flags as dislike buttons as well as legitimately what they were meant for, it obscured the point. With the new system, agree/disagree is much clearer and the report button is the main focus. So I think the update is quite good for clarity on the forum.

    I was very happy to be able to delete the parts of my signature that went on about not using the spam or abuse buttons as dislike buttons.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,399
    Surge_2 said:

    Canuovea said:

    Honestly I'll take the worst Mod over the best bot any day of the week. Technology is to a point where they could just have bots moderate forums and scan messages, it a scary thought.

    As the worst mod, I appreciate this.
    I dont know, I think you are my favorite.
    Agree. Except for the little fact that he favors elves over dwarfs. That is unacceptable.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,265
    Okay okay, favourite moderators are off topic here. I shouldn't have joked in the first place. And I'm not removing things for being off topic because I'm in the discussion. So no more of that.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
    -Rules FAQ: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287650/total-war-forum-faq#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • VeldrinarVeldrinar Registered Users Posts: 201
    Well, I foresee a distinct lack of points in my future. After all, how could anyone agree with my atrocious sense of humor?

    That said whilst it's good to see some action being taken, I can't help but feel it's a bit...lacking? It's good that people are more encouraged to explain themselves when they report someone now, as it always should have been, but I find that as many others have said: The disagree button is just a dislike button by another name.

    It contributes nothing except to serve as an outlet for people to vent their frustration onto posts that they don't want to see, whilst still being an ineffective means to make said posts go away(Not that they necessarily should, mind you). It just seems a tad pointless of an addition to me(get it?).

    All in all I feel like this won't really change all that much around here. The same troublemakers will keep making trouble, the same people who should be ignoring those troublemakers will fail to ignore them, and we will all be back here in a few months or so.
This discussion has been closed.