A distinct Hobgoblin Khanate Faction?

Orontes

What do the wise consider the possibility of a distinct Hobgoblin Khanate faction given there will likely be hobgoblin units in the Chaos Dwarf roster, the amount of space in the Steppes, and the need for more enemies for Grand Cathay beyond daemons. Have there been any CA comments about such?

SaintCorn

There are no official comments on the Hobgoblins either confirming or denying them.

They are one of the possibilities for the preorder race-pack.
Other possibilities includes factions like Nagash, the Dogs of War, and the aforementioned Hobgoblins being the, seemingly, most popular contenders for being the pre-order on the forums.

MODIDDLY1#9212

Yeah Pre-order hasn't been mentioned yet, but Hobgoblins, Nagash, Kurgans are the top three contenders simply because a lot of the faction could be reskins, which if history is anything to go by, pre-orders tend to be. DoW seems like they might need a lot of unique models and might be too much of a budget for a pre-order.

HeresyHound

It is a hard maybe.

They would make a lot of sense as a Race Pack but if they aren't the pre-order who knows if we will ever get Race Packs again. If the first Campaign Pack is Chaos Dwarfs i see a possibility of them being the pre-order where they finish all the hobgoblin stuff first and then do less work for the campaign pack. If not hopefully we get a couple Race Packs down the road.

Honestly I really wish CA had done some Race Packs in Game 2 instead of just Campaign and Lord Packs. Hell I honestly think the Coast could have been a 2 LL Race Pack followed by a 2 LL Sartosa Race Pack and I LOVE the Coast. Not to mention the other minor races that could fit in game 2 like Albion and Amazons.

JToegiTheSnotling

I feel like the Hobgoblin Khanate will definitely be on the game 3 map. It's going to either be the preorder race or an npc race that only uses hobgoblin stuff from the Chaos Dwarfs.

I'm hoping for the first choice so I don't have to wait for a modder to make them unique and playable. XD

OdTengri

Orontes said:

What do the wise consider the possibility of a distinct Hobgoblin Khanate faction given there will likely be hobgoblin units in the Chaos Dwarf roster, the amount of space in the Steppes, and the need for more enemies for Grand Cathay beyond daemons. Have there been any CA comments about such?

Unlikely... even with Cathay any other factions without Army Books are Unlikely...

I mean we can more or less assume that Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms are going to be our two Campaign Packs, both Game 1 and 2 only had two Campaign packs. So while its possible we could see more, how many more can we reasonably hope for?

We know we have one unknown pre-order Race Pack for game 3 this is the Hobgoblin Khaganates best chance of getting in, but it's competing with Dogs of War and probably not favored to win.

There is a big.... IF in all of this though. With no TWWH 4 to cap off game 3 there is the possibility they keep DLC teams going for a long time filling out the rest of the Warhammer World and Total War Map. If that happens, they would be one of the top contenders for addition. They'd be easy to add, just take the Hobgoblin Auxiliaries for the Chaos Dwarfs as the low tier "chaff" options and then add to them Elite tier troops to replace the Chaos Dwarfs. It's easy to imagine that they'd have Elite Barded Wolf Riders in Melee and Archer versions, maybe a fantasy version of the Squiggoth, a few unique siege options, and hey maybe even a few other mounted options like Rinox or something.

MODIDDLY1#9212

OdTengri said:

Orontes said:

What do the wise consider the possibility of a distinct Hobgoblin Khanate faction given there will likely be hobgoblin units in the Chaos Dwarf roster, the amount of space in the Steppes, and the need for more enemies for Grand Cathay beyond daemons. Have there been any CA comments about such?

Unlikely... even with Cathay any other factions without Army Books are Unlikely...

I mean we can more or less assume that Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms are going to be our two Campaign Packs, both Game 1 and 2 only had two Campaign packs. So while its possible we could see more, how many more can we reasonably hope for?

We know we have one unknown pre-order Race Pack for game 3 this is the Hobgoblin Khaganates best chance of getting in, but it's competing with Dogs of War and probably not favored to win.

There is a big.... IF in all of this though. With no TWWH 4 to cap off game 3 there is the possibility they keep DLC teams going for a long time filling out the rest of the Warhammer World and Total War Map. If that happens, they would be one of the top contenders for addition. They'd be easy to add, just take the Hobgoblin Auxiliaries for the Chaos Dwarfs as the low tier "chaff" options and then add to them Elite tier troops to replace the Chaos Dwarfs. It's easy to imagine that they'd have Elite Barded Wolf Riders in Melee and Archer versions, maybe a fantasy version of the Squiggoth, a few unique siege options, and hey maybe even a few other mounted options like Rinox or something.

I really don't think it will be DoW just because they have so many mercenaries, of other factions, it seems more likely they will come AFTER ogres because they will be able to use the models, if they even are added as a faction and not a mercenary type landmark that lets you recruit units if you have the building.

hendo’#9614

How convinced are we that the map will include much of the steppes?

We haven’t been told much about the preorder yet. However, we know the expect a race pack.

When determining (or guessing) possibilities for a Race pack as a preorder, I have a few criteria:

1) A race that can mainly be built with current assets accessible to CA.

2) it could be priced at 8-10 USD because it doesn’t have to be built from scratch.

3) it’s enough to fill out a complete roster while keeping the price pt as other preorders because... you guessed it.. it shares assets currently available to CA

Yea, maybe I really only have one criterion for guessing.

Hobgoblin Karnate is a possibility. IMO so are Dogs of War, neferata, nagash (are the last two the same?), and heck, too many to list.

I think the hobgoblins would be an exciting choice and fun to play as long as CA did them right. I would want them to look very different (as they should) from GS gobos. There are many possibilities for the race pack; this is why I hope CA makes more race packs.

SaintCorn

hendo1592 said:

How convinced are we that the map will include much of the steppes?

We haven’t been told much about the preorder yet. However, we know the expect a race pack.

When determining (or guessing) possibilities for a Race pack as a preorder, I have a few criteria:

1) A race that can mainly be built with current assets accessible to CA.

2) it could be priced at 8-10 USD because it doesn’t have to be built from scratch.

3) it’s enough to fill out a complete roster while keeping the price pt as other preorders because... you guessed it.. it shares assets currently available to CA

Yea, maybe I really only have one criterion for guessing.

Hobgoblin Karnate is a possibility. IMO so are Dogs of War, neferata, nagash (are the last two the same?), and heck, too many to list.

I think the hobgoblins would be an exciting choice and fun to play as long as CA did them right. I would want them to look very different (as they should) from GS gobos. There are many possibilities for the race pack; this is why I hope CA makes more race packs.

Neferata and Nagash would not be the same.
Neferata is a vampire, and she belongs to a vampire counts subfaction as she is just a type of vampire.
Nagash is the supreme lord of all undead, and there could technically be overlap between the two where Neferata could be placed in a Nagash faction.
However, that wouldn't be my preference anyway, and I know that several other users would really dislike Neferata to be part of a Nagash faction.

Beef545

They aren't distinct, but unfortunately they are likely addition as a preorder, due to how cheap to make they would be. Their roster is pretty much same as greenskin roster, but without orcs, CA will throw 1-2 big monsters there and call it a day-just like it looked in norsca case.

Other pre-order candidates (from best to worse)
-Sea Elves
-dogs of war
-nagash(let's be honest, he would fit better as VC LL/LH)

Itharus

The longer they actively support WH3, the better the chances get for Hobgoblins. They could milk WH3 for half a decade or longer if they wanted to - easily. And given how they have been supporting, remastering, and porting older TW games lately -- they might.

If they just wanna move onto WH: AoS though, then we're probably screwed.

Theoretically... they'd make a perfect preorder race, if Chaos Dwarfs are already under development, simply because they will already have some work done for them due to the auxiliaries the CD have. They could also get away with only 2 LL with no complaints from anyone. It'd also give them a good last chance to get a handle on making Horde factions good (something they may well be doing right now with Beastmen revamp anyway). Not only would it introduce traditional steppe-nomad horde play, it'd also introduce the only true steppe-nomad horse archer play style into the game world (discounting the ones the elves have, which they do not focus on). Hobgoblins are also known to use some Cathayan technology (black powder stuff) so assets could be reused with a simple skinjob. And lastly? They are fundamentally critical to the lore of the ENTIRE REGION over there. They are the primary and original (non Chaos) antagonists of basically the entire "Not-Asia" region. They even have lore blurbs of fighting with Araby, if they wanted to use them as a segue into that, too.

They're low hanging fruit that would bring a lot of joy, style, and variety into the game. Missing out on that would be insane. Granted... they did skip Araby, and Araby was presented on a silver platter with an existing army list, models, and everything, so who knows...

Draxynnic

SaintCorn said:

hendo1592 said:

How convinced are we that the map will include much of the steppes?

We haven’t been told much about the preorder yet. However, we know the expect a race pack.

When determining (or guessing) possibilities for a Race pack as a preorder, I have a few criteria:

1) A race that can mainly be built with current assets accessible to CA.

2) it could be priced at 8-10 USD because it doesn’t have to be built from scratch.

3) it’s enough to fill out a complete roster while keeping the price pt as other preorders because... you guessed it.. it shares assets currently available to CA

Yea, maybe I really only have one criterion for guessing.

Hobgoblin Karnate is a possibility. IMO so are Dogs of War, neferata, nagash (are the last two the same?), and heck, too many to list.

I think the hobgoblins would be an exciting choice and fun to play as long as CA did them right. I would want them to look very different (as they should) from GS gobos. There are many possibilities for the race pack; this is why I hope CA makes more race packs.

Neferata and Nagash would not be the same.
Neferata is a vampire, and she belongs to a vampire counts subfaction as she is just a type of vampire.
Nagash is the supreme lord of all undead, and there could technically be overlap between the two where Neferata could be placed in a Nagash faction.
However, that wouldn't be my preference anyway, and I know that several other users would really dislike Neferata to be part of a Nagash faction.

If any of the bloodlines should get subsumed into a Nagash faction, it'd be the Necrarchs. They have a similar focus on studying necromancy for necromancy's sake and a similar goal of destroying all life and replacing it with unlife. Neferata joining with Nagash in the End Times was a "I don't want to, but resistance is futile so I might as well see how many concessions I can get in the process" rather than having any real loyalty or common goals.

Itharus

BTW there are multiple threads on these forums that talk about Hobgoblins, sometimes to surprising depths, and some supported with sources. Anyone who says they aren't distinct is ignorant or trolling at this point. Have fun learning

SaintCorn

Draxynnic said:

SaintCorn said:

hendo1592 said:

How convinced are we that the map will include much of the steppes?

We haven’t been told much about the preorder yet. However, we know the expect a race pack.

When determining (or guessing) possibilities for a Race pack as a preorder, I have a few criteria:

1) A race that can mainly be built with current assets accessible to CA.

2) it could be priced at 8-10 USD because it doesn’t have to be built from scratch.

3) it’s enough to fill out a complete roster while keeping the price pt as other preorders because... you guessed it.. it shares assets currently available to CA

Yea, maybe I really only have one criterion for guessing.

Hobgoblin Karnate is a possibility. IMO so are Dogs of War, neferata, nagash (are the last two the same?), and heck, too many to list.

I think the hobgoblins would be an exciting choice and fun to play as long as CA did them right. I would want them to look very different (as they should) from GS gobos. There are many possibilities for the race pack; this is why I hope CA makes more race packs.

Neferata and Nagash would not be the same.
Neferata is a vampire, and she belongs to a vampire counts subfaction as she is just a type of vampire.
Nagash is the supreme lord of all undead, and there could technically be overlap between the two where Neferata could be placed in a Nagash faction.
However, that wouldn't be my preference anyway, and I know that several other users would really dislike Neferata to be part of a Nagash faction.

If any of the bloodlines should get subsumed into a Nagash faction, it'd be the Necrarchs. They have a similar focus on studying necromancy for necromancy's sake and a similar goal of destroying all life and replacing it with unlife. Neferata joining with Nagash in the End Times was a "I don't want to, but resistance is futile so I might as well see how many concessions I can get in the process" rather than having any real loyalty or common goals.

I know.
I just could see CA adding Neferata into Nagash to make it more enticing even if they really wouldn't have to.
Definitely a stretch of a possibility, but it theoretically could happen.
So, I don't want to discard it as a bad outcome just yet.

Itharus

Neferata would probably just be a stand alone Vampire Count LL, honestly.

OdTengri

MODIDDLY1 said:

OdTengri said:

Orontes said:

What do the wise consider the possibility of a distinct Hobgoblin Khanate faction given there will likely be hobgoblin units in the Chaos Dwarf roster, the amount of space in the Steppes, and the need for more enemies for Grand Cathay beyond daemons. Have there been any CA comments about such?

Unlikely... even with Cathay any other factions without Army Books are Unlikely...

I mean we can more or less assume that Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms are going to be our two Campaign Packs, both Game 1 and 2 only had two Campaign packs. So while its possible we could see more, how many more can we reasonably hope for?

We know we have one unknown pre-order Race Pack for game 3 this is the Hobgoblin Khaganates best chance of getting in, but it's competing with Dogs of War and probably not favored to win.

There is a big.... IF in all of this though. With no TWWH 4 to cap off game 3 there is the possibility they keep DLC teams going for a long time filling out the rest of the Warhammer World and Total War Map. If that happens, they would be one of the top contenders for addition. They'd be easy to add, just take the Hobgoblin Auxiliaries for the Chaos Dwarfs as the low tier "chaff" options and then add to them Elite tier troops to replace the Chaos Dwarfs. It's easy to imagine that they'd have Elite Barded Wolf Riders in Melee and Archer versions, maybe a fantasy version of the Squiggoth, a few unique siege options, and hey maybe even a few other mounted options like Rinox or something.

I really don't think it will be DoW just because they have so many mercenaries, of other factions, it seems more likely they will come AFTER ogres because they will be able to use the models, if they even are added as a faction and not a mercenary type landmark that lets you recruit units if you have the building.

Ogre models coming first makes a good deal of sense, they could be the Bretonnia of TWWH3... maybe... They really wouldn't be using mercenaries of other factions though, they more provide themselves as mercenaries to other factions.

ArneSo#7705

I think they are extremely likely after Cathay being a Core Race. They are to Cathay what Norsca is to the Empire.

You also can’t have Fantasy China without Fantasy Mongolia. They just make to much sense.

They would also offer a completely new play style as the first true Steppe Nomad Race.

I personally think they have a decent chance to be the preorder (or Nagash).

Pocman

Hobgoblins do not have enough material to be a separate faction.

The only real way this becomes a thing is if GWs plans for their new IP are HUGE.

ArneSo#7705

Pocman said:

Hobgoblins do not have enough material to be a separate faction.

The only real way this becomes a thing is if GWs plans for their new IP are HUGE.

Nonsense. We already proofed many times that there is enough material even without inventing stuff. You just refuse to accept it because of personal bias.

And considering that Cathay and Monos are basically invented from nothing, that isn’t a valid argument anymore in the first place.

But yeah, you are wrong. Hobgoblins actually have more stuff than Norsca.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

Are the Ogre Kingdom adjacent to the Hobgoblins Khanate ?

ArneSo#7705

Potential Hobgoblin Roster without inventing a single unit:

Potential Characters:
- Hobgobla Khan
- Gorduz Backstabber
- Ghazak Khan
- Oglah Khan

Lord:
- Khan
- Elder Shaman

Heroes:
- Hobgoblin Big Boss
- Hobgoblin Shaman
- Wolf Handler
- Assassin

Melee Infantry:
- Cutthroats (3 Variants)
- Murder Bosses
- Hobyars (2 Variants)
- Sneaky Gits
- Mourngul Renegades (2 variants)

Missile Infantry:
- Hobgoblin Archers
- Mourngul Renegades (Bows)
- Hobyars (Bows)
- Hobgoblin Firearms weapon team

Melee Cavalry:
- Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders (2 variants)
- Hobgoblin Wolf Bosses (2 Variants)
- Mounted Hobyars (2 variants)
- Wolf Boyz

Missile Cavalry:
- Hobgoblin Wolf Archers
- Hobgoblin Wolf Archer Bosses
- Mounted Hobyars (Bows)

Monstrous Cavalry:
- Giant Scorpion Riders
- Temple Dog Riders


Wolves & Hounds:
- Temple Dogs
- Hobhounds
- Giant Wolves

Chariots:
- Hobgoblin Wolf Chariots
- Bolt Thrower Wolf Chariot
- Hobgoblin War Wagon (bows)
- Hobgoblin War Wagon (firearms)

Monsters:
- Dreadmaw
- Wind Daemon
- „Steppe“ Giant (reskin like Norscan Giant)
- „Steppe“ Trolls

Artillery:
- Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower
- Hobgoblin Rocket Crew

Beef545

@ArneSo
Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

ArneSo#7705

Beef545 said:

@ArneSo
Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

Why spending resources in the first place?
Norsca? Naaaahh
VCoast? Urgh....
Cathay? Lol....
Kislev? Just Empire 1.5....

They are interesting because they are Fantasy Mongols and TWWH is currently missing a Steppe nomad race. They are the largest Empire in the WH World and would offer a completely unique playstyle.

They are easy to do and pretty much in the same boat as Norsca. They would significantly enrich the campaign map since they are a major enemy of almost every WH3 Race. Cathay built the Great Bastion because of Hobgoblins...

ArneSo#7705

arthadaw said:

Are the Ogre Kingdom adjacent to the Hobgoblins Khanate ?

Hobgoblins are adjacent to almost every WH3 race since their Empire stretches from Kislev, over the Dark Lands and the Mountains of Mourn to Cathay in the East.

CaesarSahlertz

Hobgoblins are very much a similar case to Norsca back in game 1. They can easily be made into a NPC faction consisting of the Hobgoblin units from Chaos Dwarfs and just having a unique Hobgoblin Lord choice for their factions. Then, once interest in the faction has been gauged, CA can decide whether or not they wish to invest into the faction proper and make them playable.

GreenColoured

Pocman said:

Hobgoblins do not have enough material to be a separate faction.

The only real way this becomes a thing is if GWs plans for their new IP are HUGE.

Not only do they have about as much as Vampire Coast and Norsca, CATHAY literally don't exist and CA is still going to make them a core race of all things.

Thomassini

SaintCorn said:

Draxynnic said:

SaintCorn said:

hendo1592 said:

How convinced are we that the map will include much of the steppes?

We haven’t been told much about the preorder yet. However, we know the expect a race pack.

When determining (or guessing) possibilities for a Race pack as a preorder, I have a few criteria:

1) A race that can mainly be built with current assets accessible to CA.

2) it could be priced at 8-10 USD because it doesn’t have to be built from scratch.

3) it’s enough to fill out a complete roster while keeping the price pt as other preorders because... you guessed it.. it shares assets currently available to CA

Yea, maybe I really only have one criterion for guessing.

Hobgoblin Karnate is a possibility. IMO so are Dogs of War, neferata, nagash (are the last two the same?), and heck, too many to list.

I think the hobgoblins would be an exciting choice and fun to play as long as CA did them right. I would want them to look very different (as they should) from GS gobos. There are many possibilities for the race pack; this is why I hope CA makes more race packs.

Neferata and Nagash would not be the same.
Neferata is a vampire, and she belongs to a vampire counts subfaction as she is just a type of vampire.
Nagash is the supreme lord of all undead, and there could technically be overlap between the two where Neferata could be placed in a Nagash faction.
However, that wouldn't be my preference anyway, and I know that several other users would really dislike Neferata to be part of a Nagash faction.

If any of the bloodlines should get subsumed into a Nagash faction, it'd be the Necrarchs. They have a similar focus on studying necromancy for necromancy's sake and a similar goal of destroying all life and replacing it with unlife. Neferata joining with Nagash in the End Times was a "I don't want to, but resistance is futile so I might as well see how many concessions I can get in the process" rather than having any real loyalty or common goals.

I know.
I just could see CA adding Neferata into Nagash to make it more enticing even if they really wouldn't have to.
Definitely a stretch of a possibility, but it theoretically could happen.
So, I don't want to discard it as a bad outcome just yet.

All vampires should stay with Vampire Counts instead of acting as a band-aid for half-assed Nagash “race”. Especially Neferata as she’s the first vampire.

If Nagash comes with his own race (because he’s coming either way) then he should have characters strictly associated with him, not steal LLs from other races. That limits it to Dieter Helsnicht, The Nameless and Dark Omen characters (although I am not a fan of them, not even in the slightest).

Necrarchs serving Nagash would be a travesty too, given that Zacharias chose (true) death instead of serving him.

Arkhan fits Nagash 1000% more than any Vampire, both personality-wise (as Nagash only accepts shills as his servants), aesthetically and militarily. And even he cannot just be stolen from TKs where he belongs, even more than in Nagash’s Legion or whatever name CA concocts for his race.


The ideal role for Neferata would be Lahmian-oriented scheming subfaction of VC with access to some TK units (skeletons and especially Lahmian Guard). She would be a counterpart of Arkhan’s hybrid TK-VC faction.

Thomassini

ArneSo said:

They would also offer a completely new play style as the first true Steppe Nomad Race.

This is the best reason to include Hobgoblins as playable race.

TWWH already has issues with adding more races and maintaining asymmetry at the same time - all this without tons of hypothetical human races coming with game 3.
Hobgoblins are a panacea for this - so far we have nothing even remotely close to cavalry-based nomad horse archer faction.

VikingHuscal1066

As much as I would think that the Hobgoblins could make for a fairly interesting race in their own right.

I'd much rather see the nations of Ind and Nippon, and the Southern Realms, make it in before them.

Not to mention all the other races that need a rework more.

SerPus

ArneSo said:

Cathay built the Great Bastion because of Hobgoblins...

They built it as a protection from Chaos.

CaesarSahlertz

SerPus said:

ArneSo said:

Cathay built the Great Bastion because of Hobgoblins...

They built it as a protection from Chaos.

To be fair, in the old lore the Great Bastion was indeed made to protect against the Hobgoblins. But since the Khanate was retconned almost out of existence, the Great Bastion is indeed now a bulwark against Chaos (and other threats from the Steppes).