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A distinct Hobgoblin Khanate Faction?

13

Comments

  • HeresyHoundHeresyHound Registered Users Posts: 8,285
    SerPus said:

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC...

    No, it was an FLC.

    And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    WoC was released before Norsca. If hobgoblins are pre-order DLC and Chaos Dwarfs are the first campaign pack then it's the opposite of what happened with Norsca.


    I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.

    And I'm saying that the comparison with Norsca only works if Chaos Dwarfs come out before Hobgoblins.
    I'm kinda jumping into the middle of this but I think
    hendo1592 said:

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Looking at what CA has done in the past is reasonable. However, this is the last game. What I mean is the first two games CA had to focus on puzzling the Warhammer world together and set the foundation using significant races (also while turning to make races’ rosters as complete as possible in game 2).

    TWW3 is where CA can complete the foundation and start adding more flavor. Race packs are good at fleshing out smaller races/factions and imo would improve the production cycle, if CA we're to add them in the mix.

    Yes, I know what CA has done in the past but I think it's fair to say they identify things that might bother us- like getting nothing but lord packs. People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer. Race packs, imo make a good stopgap product that costs the same as lord packs and may gain more positive reactions from us.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the following schedule after tww3 release date (not including immortal empire map and b&g DLC):

    Campaign pack x2
    Lord pack
    Race pack
    Lord pack
    Campaign pack
    Lord pack
    Race pack


    I'm not saying I want exactly above but just an example to visually show what I'm talking about.
    I would personally say:

    Campaign Pack
    Lord Pack
    Lord Pack
    Campaign Pack
    Lord Pack
    Lord Pack
    Race Pack
    Lord Pack
    Lord Pack
    Race Pack

    It is nice to add some new races but there is a lot to flesh out with LPS still
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,573

    FLC is literally DLC...

    No. DLC has to be sold, FLC is for free.
    Bretonnia looks like core race that wasn't finished in time. Norsca was nothing but WoC units. None of them is "full-price" campaign pack.


    And as I said from the beginng, I think Chaos Dwarfs will be present with a limited roster from the start.

    That is an unreasonable expectation.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    FLC is literally DLC...

    No. DLC has to be sold, FLC is for free.
    Bretonnia looks like core race that wasn't finished in time. Norsca was nothing but WoC units. None of them is "full-price" campaign pack.


    And as I said from the beginng, I think Chaos Dwarfs will be present with a limited roster from the start.

    That is an unreasonable expectation.
    FLC is LITERALLY DLC. DLC is just content that has to be downloaded as an add-on for the game. The moniker of FLC is a creation of fans, which has since been adopted by developers, which describes free DLC.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,573

    FLC is LITERALLY DLC. DLC is just content that has to be downloaded as an add-on for the game. The moniker of FLC is a creation of fans, which has since been adopted by developers, which describes free DLC.

    And we adapted that terminology a long time ago, so when people say DLC in the context of Total War discussions they mean paid content.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    FLC is LITERALLY DLC. DLC is just content that has to be downloaded as an add-on for the game. The moniker of FLC is a creation of fans, which has since been adopted by developers, which describes free DLC.

    And we adapted that terminology a long time ago, so when people say DLC in the context of Total War discussions they mean paid content.
    Which is extremely irrelevant to the point I am making.
  • hendo’#9614hendo’#9614 Registered Users Posts: 3,000
    SerPus said:

    hendo1592 said:

    People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer.

    Lack of lord packs is what makes it incomplete.

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,573

    Which is extremely irrelevant to the point I am making.

    It is relevant since it shows the difference between Bretonnia and other non-core races.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    Which is extremely irrelevant to the point I am making.

    It is relevant since it shows the difference between Bretonnia and other non-core races.
    There is literally no difference. Bretonnia is simply a piece of DLC that CA chose to give away for free.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,191
    arthadaw said:

    Are the Ogre Kingdom adjacent to the Hobgoblins Khanate ?

    Yep, sorta. There are mountains kind of running down the middle of the east that basically adjoin everything. The steppes the Hobgoblins dominate are basically Cathay's entire northern borders (chaos wastes are beyond them). That's one of the reasons they should really be in. They are the preeminent force in that area... if Cathayans want to leave Cathay they either have to go North through the Hobgoblins, West through the Ogre Kingdoms, or along a route South skirting along Ind down into the Darklands and then into that area down by Land of the Dead, Desolation, etc... or sail. If they do not restore the southern part of the map (more of Lustria and Southlands) then Ind would be bypassed as well, leaving just the two routes (assuming the world does not wrap around for sea travel).

    A full world map would be ideal, honestly... make sea travel more important.

    I wonder if Cathay has colonies on western Naggaroth? I know the Dark Elves found an underground sea passage to that side of things, and so have presence there... Might make Khatep more fun if he had to fight Cathayans, too :)

    But yeah... Hobgoblins aren't just in the steppes either, that's just the area they dominate (they constantly fight marauder tribes in the Northern parts, Cathayans in the Southern parts, Ogres in the Western parts... and each other everywhere, lol!). They also have a strong presence in the Dark Lands and periodically sweep the entire east in huge wars. They fight Greenskins in the World's Edge, even, and sometimes make it all the way to the Border Princes and Araby.

    Fun fact: if you play Greenskins, you will sometimes get events where Hobgoblins raid your settlements and damage everything - it's an Easter egg that's been in the game since day 1 of WH1. Just about squealed with glee the first time I saw it... it was actually the first Easter egg I got, even before the Skaven and Beastmen ones, lol.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,191

    As much as I would think that the Hobgoblins could make for a fairly interesting race in their own right.

    I'd much rather see the nations of Ind and Nippon, and the Southern Realms, make it in before them.

    Not to mention all the other races that need a rework more.

    What other races need a rework? All that's left is Beastmen for that, and they'll probably be the last WH2 DLC.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,191
    edited April 2021

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    Inappropriate Comment removed.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,573

    Bretonnia is simply a piece of DLC that CA chose to give away for free.

    Which is a huge difference.
    hendo1592 said:

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.

    The question is what do we consider "incomplete". Will a game based on Warhammer be more incomplete without, for example, Thanquol or without Ind?
    As for "freshness", I honestly don't know. For me the whole current map feels stale, no matter what you add on it.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,191

    I still don't see Hobgoblins as having enough content for a race pack. And assuming they do it will be mostly drawn from other rosters - it would be a very uninspired bonus.

    Dreadspears and Silverin Guard are just Eterna Guard! OMG! Dark Elves and High Elves drew from the Wood Elf roster!!

    And what about all those archers! OMG! OR THE GLAIVE INFANTRY! LE GASPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dude that argument holds no merit whatsoever.

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    edited April 2021
    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    Inappropriate Comment removed.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 18,912

    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
    what ? how?

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • hendo’#9614hendo’#9614 Registered Users Posts: 3,000
    SerPus said:

    Bretonnia is simply a piece of DLC that CA chose to give away for free.

    Which is a huge difference.
    hendo1592 said:

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.

    The question is what do we consider "incomplete". Will a game based on Warhammer be more incomplete without, for example, Thanquol or without Ind?
    As for "freshness", I honestly don't know. For me the whole current map feels stale, no matter what you add on it.
    That's an extreme example, pairing a race’s leader with a minor race that was a foot note in the warhammer world (even though it's interesting). But point taken.

    For me it's not an either or question, but how CA chooses to implement content. I understand some things aren't going to make the cut- but when Lord packs biggest contributions are to add new starting locations and LL for existing races I think adding a new playable race (or subculture) to break up any monotonous reactions/feelings from the community would be a smart idea.

    When it comes to it....a race pack is basically a Lord pack but all of it's content goes towards one race. I can see race packs bringing the empire more to life adding elector counts and their unique cultures, adding GS cultures (like hobgoblins), Sea High elves, different unique norsca subcultures like kurgans. The list goes on and on.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    saweendra said:

    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
    what ? how?
    By being downloadable content.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 18,912

    saweendra said:

    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
    what ? how?
    By being downloadable content.
    that is over simplification though DLC or paid DLC is treated differently than Free DLC , paid ones get great updates and love, free get well what ever left after everything budget

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,672

    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    WTF is it with this incessant thought in some folks' minds?? You may as well say Greenskins are a subfaction of the Chaos Dwarfs because they originated in the Dark Lands (which by the way -- they inhabited BEFORE THE CHAOS DWARFS GOT THERE). Like... this is just stupid. Stop it.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).
    And if this was not enough, there is simply not enough material to make them interesting.

    As they are, they would be greenskins 2.0 but without monsters.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,672
    hendo1592 said:

    SerPus said:

    hendo1592 said:

    People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer.

    Lack of lord packs is what makes it incomplete.

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.
    I don't think a new payable race would have had much effect. Yeah, a new race would have generated more short duration hype that another race pack. But the reason why people got tired is because WH2 has simply been running for a long time and a new game, with actual gameplay improvements (diplomacy, sieges, etc.) is what was really needed.

    In fact, no matter how many new races it adds, if WH3 does not improve the core game, it will only be WH2bis, and will have, imho, no matter how many buy it, failed expectations.
  • hendo’#9614hendo’#9614 Registered Users Posts: 3,000
    Pocman said:

    hendo1592 said:

    SerPus said:

    hendo1592 said:

    People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer.

    Lack of lord packs is what makes it incomplete.

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.
    I don't think a new payable race would have had much effect. Yeah, a new race would have generated more short duration hype that another race pack. But the reason why people got tired is because WH2 has simply been running for a long time and a new game, with actual gameplay improvements (diplomacy, sieges, etc.) is what was really needed.

    In fact, no matter how many new races it adds, if WH3 does not improve the core game, it will only be WH2bis, and will have, imho, no matter how many buy it, failed expectations.
    I agree with the last bit- CA needs to make improvements to the core game or any changes of type of content or the order of content that's release will have less effect if they don't.

    I disagree with your first bit though. Imo the bigger influence was that core races kept getting lord packs when many were itching for something more new -especially when the map allows it. I think this was most apparent from fans reactions after the first round of lord packs.
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 3,149
    hendo1592 said:

    Pocman said:

    hendo1592 said:

    SerPus said:

    hendo1592 said:

    People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer.

    Lack of lord packs is what makes it incomplete.

    Not wrong. But filling out playable races rosters for 2 years -don't quote me on timeframe-without adding new races seemed to not have the best effect on players. IMO it's not a good look if your passionate player base is getting less and less excited about content- specifically because they don't add enough “freshness” especially when we are looking at 5-8 months in between releases.
    I don't think a new payable race would have had much effect. Yeah, a new race would have generated more short duration hype that another race pack. But the reason why people got tired is because WH2 has simply been running for a long time and a new game, with actual gameplay improvements (diplomacy, sieges, etc.) is what was really needed.

    In fact, no matter how many new races it adds, if WH3 does not improve the core game, it will only be WH2bis, and will have, imho, no matter how many buy it, failed expectations.
    I agree with the last bit- CA needs to make improvements to the core game or any changes of type of content or the order of content that's release will have less effect if they don't.

    I disagree with your first bit though. Imo the bigger influence was that core races kept getting lord packs when many were itching for something more new -especially when the map allows it. I think this was most apparent from fans reactions after the first round of lord packs.
    This is exactly how I feel. I would be more willing to wait for game 3 if CA had thrown Araby, DoW, Albion or Amazons in after every 2 LPs. A LP makes the game feel a bit more full, but a new race brings in so much more.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • ArneSo#7705ArneSo#7705 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 37,009
    Pocman said:

    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    WTF is it with this incessant thought in some folks' minds?? You may as well say Greenskins are a subfaction of the Chaos Dwarfs because they originated in the Dark Lands (which by the way -- they inhabited BEFORE THE CHAOS DWARFS GOT THERE). Like... this is just stupid. Stop it.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).
    And if this was not enough, there is simply not enough material to make them interesting.

    As they are, they would be greenskins 2.0 but without monsters.
    If they are GS 2.0 then Kislev is Empire 2.0.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 2,484

    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    WTF is it with this incessant thought in some folks' minds?? You may as well say Greenskins are a subfaction of the Chaos Dwarfs because they originated in the Dark Lands (which by the way -- they inhabited BEFORE THE CHAOS DWARFS GOT THERE). Like... this is just stupid. Stop it.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).
    I guess you took that from the wiki, well I checked the source (Tamurkhan page 167 apparently) and I found that it doesnt say that exactly:

    "Hated by the other greenskins who would happily murder them if they could, the hobgoblins of the dark lands have come to rely on the chaos dwarf patronage and protection"

    So it is refering specifically to the hobgoblins of the dark lands, not the ones that live in the steppes. It is true that the last mention of the hobgoblin empire is in 6th edition but that doesnt necesarily mean it has been retconned, and even if that was the case it would be as easy as retconning it back to existence again.

    If you want a in universe explanation it could be that the previous hobgobla khan died and no one else was hable to take his place so the empire is not a thing anymore (at least for a time), but independent hobgoblin tribes still live there. In fact there is mention of hobgoblins in the eastern steppes in tamurkhan.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!

    IT'S HOBGOBBO TIME!!!!!!!
    #JusticeForKurgan
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 2,484

    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    WTF is it with this incessant thought in some folks' minds?? You may as well say Greenskins are a subfaction of the Chaos Dwarfs because they originated in the Dark Lands (which by the way -- they inhabited BEFORE THE CHAOS DWARFS GOT THERE). Like... this is just stupid. Stop it.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).

    If you want a in universe explanation it could be that the previous hobgobla khan died and no one else was hable to take his place so the empire is not a thing anymore (at least for a time), but independent hobgoblin tribes still live there. In fact there is mention of hobgoblins in the eastern steppes in tamurkhan.
    Now that I think of it this sounds very good for the start of a campaign:

    Advisor: After the death of the last hobgobla khan the hobgoblin tribes have been divided and their lands have fallen into the hands of the chaos hordes, a great opportunity for you, WhoCares khan to rise into power, you will fight back the chaos invaders, unify the tribes once again and proclaim yourself the new hobgobla khan of all the hobgoblins, with this power you will breach the great bastion and destroy the hated Cathai once and for all.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!

    IT'S HOBGOBBO TIME!!!!!!!
    #JusticeForKurgan
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 6,077

    Itharus said:

    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.

    FTLOFG... that's not how it works. They are NOT A SUBFACTION. THEY DO NOT SERVE CHAOS DWARFS.

    WTF is it with this incessant thought in some folks' minds?? You may as well say Greenskins are a subfaction of the Chaos Dwarfs because they originated in the Dark Lands (which by the way -- they inhabited BEFORE THE CHAOS DWARFS GOT THERE). Like... this is just stupid. Stop it.
    "This ultimate betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust even each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves."

    That is literally the official description of the Hobgoblins.... I know you cling on to the old description of the Hobgoblin Khanate, but that was, and remains, retconned to the point of being unrecognisable. The Steppes are no longer "dominated" by the Hobgoblins, but instead is home to both Hobgoblins, Kurgan and Hung warbands, each constantly fighting the other (and themselves for that matter).

    If you want a in universe explanation it could be that the previous hobgobla khan died and no one else was hable to take his place so the empire is not a thing anymore (at least for a time), but independent hobgoblin tribes still live there. In fact there is mention of hobgoblins in the eastern steppes in tamurkhan.
    Now that I think of it this sounds very good for the start of a campaign:

    Advisor: After the death of the last hobgobla khan the hobgoblin tribes have been divided and their lands have fallen into the hands of the chaos hordes, a great opportunity for you, WhoCares khan to rise into power, you will fight back the chaos invaders, unify the tribes once again and proclaim yourself the new hobgobla khan of all the hobgoblins, with this power you will breach the great bastion and destroy the hated Cathai once and for all.
    While personally, I feel that the Hobgobhla-khan should still be in. This setup makes them perfect for the pre-order. Think about it, we have Kislev and Cathay serving as the bastion of civilization against the myriad hordes of chaos who are each vying to corrupt/destroy the world for their own patron god. The hobgoblin khaganates would throw an utter wildcard into that mix from the game launch, a race that doesn't want Chaos to win but still wants to crush their enemies, see them fall at their feet, take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. You know, what's best in life.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed, Shadow King
    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

    Warhammer Deserves Naval Battles

  • Jo_Proulx#5293Jo_Proulx#5293 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,709
    I believe they will get the savage orcs treatment, as a non-playable annoyance.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • MODIDDLY1#9212MODIDDLY1#9212 Registered Users Posts: 1,196
    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 10,096
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods

    Norsca works well enough as a stand in for Kurgans, I could easily see the Hobgoblins from the Chaos Dwarf Roster making it in early as a placeholder faction... Maybe they get expanded upon later with DLC or are the Pre-Order.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,191
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods

    Kurgans will 100% be in -- as a Marauder tribe -- which is exactly what they are. Most the other (well known) Marauder Tribes are already on the map, too. I can hands down guarantee you that you will be fighting lots of those guys in that area. They're pretty much all that lives up there, other than assorted eldritch horrors.

    Marauders, Spear Marauders, Javelin Marauders, Axe Thrower Marauders, Champion Marauders, Berserker Marauders, Javelin Horse Marauders, Axe Throwing Horse Marauders, Javelin Throwing Horse Marauders That Don't Suck, Marauder Chiefans, Chaos Sorcerers/Shaman, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Dragons, Chaos Giants, Armored Chaos Trolls, Chaos Warhounds (and poison ones), Marauder Chariots... that's all stuff in the game the marauder tribes have. There's also Fimir and Skinwolves and Mammoths, and Ice Trolls, and Ice Wolves but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the "norscan part" or not so I didn't include them. I can't remember if they have access to Dragon Ogres and Hellcannons or if that's just WoC. There's probably things they have that I forgot about by this point.

    Anyhoo... my whole point is... they're already a whole faction in the game. The main problem they have is overlap. Norsca got around this by adding "ice" monsters and Fimir and Mammoths and Skinwolves. I don't know if the normal Marauder tribes have that stuff or not (although they presently do in-game).

    I guess that's what's bugging me every time I hear someone calling for these guys -- they're already there! You can play them! If they added a Chieftain lord that gave bonuses to the horse marauders it'd basically be "mission complete" for Kurgan. If you strip out the Norscan stuff, then you'd have to borrow from Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos to fill those holes -- just like WoC (and presumably DoC) already borrow some Marauder units (if not all?). And then you have to ask yourself: "At what point is this just a WoC army with a Marauder Lord?".

    Chaos is a giant interdependent mess. This is actually the primary reason I think Monogods is a really stupid idea. Chaos as a WHOLE is one giant complete faction of unrivalled complexity and variety. Split them up and you just have a bunch of half-complete seeming one trick ponies. It's sad.

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually. Norsca's great fun (although not very Norscan, honestly). What a lot of the people who want the Kurgan in seem to be asking for is not actually what they are; they want something new to take their place and have the same name.
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