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A distinct Hobgoblin Khanate Faction?

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  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569
    Itharus said:

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually.

    They can be explained thought LPs or FLCs. Kurgan and Hung themed subfactions would bring more flavour.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,186
    SerPus said:

    Itharus said:

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually.

    They can be explained thought LPs or FLCs. Kurgan and Hung themed subfactions would bring more flavour.
    How'd you implement it though? There's nothing to differentiate them from any other marauder tribe. Adding new lords would have to be FLC or event based and more or less be *just* the lord with some skills and faction bonuses because there's nothing really left to add without turning them into something they're not.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569
    edited April 2021
    Itharus said:

    There's nothing to differentiate them from any other marauder tribe.

    Hung can be "Steppe people: the faction" that people want. Give them campaign mechanics that are different from Norsca, some pony cavalry, bigger focus on cavalry in general and either new hounds unit or just bonuses for Chaos Warhounds.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    At the end of the day Hobgoblins are one of those non-esential races in the game. They can easily be ignored, represented by a NPC faction, or if CA sees fit expanded upon and be made playable. However, under no circumstances should Hobgoblins ever take priority over Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms, just like Norsca didn't take priority over Bretonnia, Beastmen or Wood Elves.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 38,443
    I think a Hobgobbo race could be great fun. Probably not a top tier race, but it could certainly be a lot of fun.

    The chances are minimal though.
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  • MODIDDLY1#9212MODIDDLY1#9212 Registered Users Posts: 1,183
    Itharus said:

    MODIDDLY1 said:

    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods

    Kurgans will 100% be in -- as a Marauder tribe -- which is exactly what they are. Most the other (well known) Marauder Tribes are already on the map, too. I can hands down guarantee you that you will be fighting lots of those guys in that area. They're pretty much all that lives up there, other than assorted eldritch horrors.

    Marauders, Spear Marauders, Javelin Marauders, Axe Thrower Marauders, Champion Marauders, Berserker Marauders, Javelin Horse Marauders, Axe Throwing Horse Marauders, Javelin Throwing Horse Marauders That Don't Suck, Marauder Chiefans, Chaos Sorcerers/Shaman, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Dragons, Chaos Giants, Armored Chaos Trolls, Chaos Warhounds (and poison ones), Marauder Chariots... that's all stuff in the game the marauder tribes have. There's also Fimir and Skinwolves and Mammoths, and Ice Trolls, and Ice Wolves but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the "norscan part" or not so I didn't include them. I can't remember if they have access to Dragon Ogres and Hellcannons or if that's just WoC. There's probably things they have that I forgot about by this point.

    Anyhoo... my whole point is... they're already a whole faction in the game. The main problem they have is overlap. Norsca got around this by adding "ice" monsters and Fimir and Mammoths and Skinwolves. I don't know if the normal Marauder tribes have that stuff or not (although they presently do in-game).

    I guess that's what's bugging me every time I hear someone calling for these guys -- they're already there! You can play them! If they added a Chieftain lord that gave bonuses to the horse marauders it'd basically be "mission complete" for Kurgan. If you strip out the Norscan stuff, then you'd have to borrow from Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos to fill those holes -- just like WoC (and presumably DoC) already borrow some Marauder units (if not all?). And then you have to ask yourself: "At what point is this just a WoC army with a Marauder Lord?".

    Chaos is a giant interdependent mess. This is actually the primary reason I think Monogods is a really stupid idea. Chaos as a WHOLE is one giant complete faction of unrivalled complexity and variety. Split them up and you just have a bunch of half-complete seeming one trick ponies. It's sad.

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually. Norsca's great fun (although not very Norscan, honestly). What a lot of the people who want the Kurgan in seem to be asking for is not actually what they are; they want something new to take their place and have the same name.
    I mean, by that argument, Hobgoblins are in the game, just make them all goblins, and call it a day. Kurgans horse archers, regular archers, and chaos mutations. Hobgoblins are goblins, but sliiiightly taller. If CA want Kurgans, they can make them distinct enough to be different. If CA want Hobgoblins, they can make them distinct enough to be different.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    Itharus said:

    MODIDDLY1 said:

    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods

    Kurgans will 100% be in -- as a Marauder tribe -- which is exactly what they are. Most the other (well known) Marauder Tribes are already on the map, too. I can hands down guarantee you that you will be fighting lots of those guys in that area. They're pretty much all that lives up there, other than assorted eldritch horrors.

    Marauders, Spear Marauders, Javelin Marauders, Axe Thrower Marauders, Champion Marauders, Berserker Marauders, Javelin Horse Marauders, Axe Throwing Horse Marauders, Javelin Throwing Horse Marauders That Don't Suck, Marauder Chiefans, Chaos Sorcerers/Shaman, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Dragons, Chaos Giants, Armored Chaos Trolls, Chaos Warhounds (and poison ones), Marauder Chariots... that's all stuff in the game the marauder tribes have. There's also Fimir and Skinwolves and Mammoths, and Ice Trolls, and Ice Wolves but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the "norscan part" or not so I didn't include them. I can't remember if they have access to Dragon Ogres and Hellcannons or if that's just WoC. There's probably things they have that I forgot about by this point.

    Anyhoo... my whole point is... they're already a whole faction in the game. The main problem they have is overlap. Norsca got around this by adding "ice" monsters and Fimir and Mammoths and Skinwolves. I don't know if the normal Marauder tribes have that stuff or not (although they presently do in-game).

    I guess that's what's bugging me every time I hear someone calling for these guys -- they're already there! You can play them! If they added a Chieftain lord that gave bonuses to the horse marauders it'd basically be "mission complete" for Kurgan. If you strip out the Norscan stuff, then you'd have to borrow from Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos to fill those holes -- just like WoC (and presumably DoC) already borrow some Marauder units (if not all?). And then you have to ask yourself: "At what point is this just a WoC army with a Marauder Lord?".

    Chaos is a giant interdependent mess. This is actually the primary reason I think Monogods is a really stupid idea. Chaos as a WHOLE is one giant complete faction of unrivalled complexity and variety. Split them up and you just have a bunch of half-complete seeming one trick ponies. It's sad.

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually. Norsca's great fun (although not very Norscan, honestly). What a lot of the people who want the Kurgan in seem to be asking for is not actually what they are; they want something new to take their place and have the same name.
    I mean, by that argument, Hobgoblins are in the game, just make them all goblins, and call it a day. Kurgans horse archers, regular archers, and chaos mutations. Hobgoblins are goblins, but sliiiightly taller. If CA want Kurgans, they can make them distinct enough to be different. If CA want Hobgoblins, they can make them distinct enough to be different.
    I would wager a guess, that the Kurgans are the ones represented by the Warriors of Chaos faction, while Norsca and Hung could technically get their own "races". Kurgans are the most numerous of the Northeren people, and are also the ones most often seen in the hosts of the Warriors of Chaos.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569


    I would wager a guess, that the Kurgans are the ones represented by the Warriors of Chaos faction, while Norsca and Hung could technically get their own "races". Kurgans are the most numerous of the Northeren people, and are also the ones most often seen in the hosts of the Warriors of Chaos.

    Kurgans are still tribal people, their structure "in the wild" isn't the same as of WoC. Plus having Kurgans without Mammoths won't be nice. The best way would be making Kurgan and Hung subfactions to Norsca race(and maybe rename to to Tribes of Chaos, since it trigger some people).
  • MODIDDLY1#9212MODIDDLY1#9212 Registered Users Posts: 1,183
    SerPus said:


    I would wager a guess, that the Kurgans are the ones represented by the Warriors of Chaos faction, while Norsca and Hung could technically get their own "races". Kurgans are the most numerous of the Northeren people, and are also the ones most often seen in the hosts of the Warriors of Chaos.

    Kurgans are still tribal people, their structure "in the wild" isn't the same as of WoC. Plus having Kurgans without Mammoths won't be nice. The best way would be making Kurgan and Hung subfactions to Norsca race(and maybe rename to to Tribes of Chaos, since it trigger some people).
    "Tribes of Chaos" is like... literally Warriors of Chaos. Rather than diluting Norsca from the viking and monster faction into generic diet chaos, why not just make a Kurgan faction that, instead of having a mechanic where you raze for the gods, you have mutations that you upgrade troops with, and try to make them as powerful as you can without going overboard and turning them into chaos spawn?
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    "Tribes of Chaos" is like... literally Warriors of Chaos.

    Well, both yes and no. In the game CA made them separate races with Norsca focused on the triba/marauderl aspect and WoC being warbands, basically Chaos Invasion: the race.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:


    I would wager a guess, that the Kurgans are the ones represented by the Warriors of Chaos faction, while Norsca and Hung could technically get their own "races". Kurgans are the most numerous of the Northeren people, and are also the ones most often seen in the hosts of the Warriors of Chaos.

    Kurgans are still tribal people, their structure "in the wild" isn't the same as of WoC. Plus having Kurgans without Mammoths won't be nice. The best way would be making Kurgan and Hung subfactions to Norsca race(and maybe rename to to Tribes of Chaos, since it trigger some people).
    They are as tribal as the rest of the Chaos factions. Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact. So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact.

    Sure, no one is arguing with that.


    So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.

    Why make Hung or Kurgan separate races if there is already a race that represents the northern tribes "in their natural habitat"? Just use it as a basis.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact.

    Sure, no one is arguing with that.


    So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.

    Why make Hung or Kurgan separate races if there is already a race that represents the northern tribes "in their natural habitat"? Just use it as a basis.
    For the same reason that Norsca was made seperate, and why Hobgoblins can potentially be made seperate. To add variety.

    Yes, you can achieve the same with just using the stock sample of Norsca and just renaming them to represent the Hung and other Marauder tribes. Just like you can use whatever Hobgoblin units are in the Chaos Dwarfs for potential Hobgoblin NPC factions. However, it isn't a very nuanced or faithful representation of the source material. Hung are clearly distinct from the other Marauder people, just like Norscans and Kurgan also are.

    You are advocating for the path of least resistance, literally on no other basis than it being the path of least resistance. However, if CA wishes to milk this cash cow they have created, such a development policy is going to lead the game into an early grave.
  • MrDragonMrDragon Registered Users Posts: 3,540

    SerPus said:

    Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact.

    Sure, no one is arguing with that.


    So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.

    Why make Hung or Kurgan separate races if there is already a race that represents the northern tribes "in their natural habitat"? Just use it as a basis.
    For the same reason that Norsca was made seperate, and why Hobgoblins can potentially be made seperate. To add variety.

    Yes, you can achieve the same with just using the stock sample of Norsca and just renaming them to represent the Hung and other Marauder tribes. Just like you can use whatever Hobgoblin units are in the Chaos Dwarfs for potential Hobgoblin NPC factions. However, it isn't a very nuanced or faithful representation of the source material. Hung are clearly distinct from the other Marauder people, just like Norscans and Kurgan also are.

    You are advocating for the path of least resistance, literally on no other basis than it being the path of least resistance. However, if CA wishes to milk this cash cow they have created, such a development policy is going to lead the game into an early grave.
    Or give them the ability to sink money and time into actually very distinct factions like Ogres or Chaos Dwarves instead of expanding a the range of things we already have for the sake of faction-bloat.
    CA do not have infinite time and money.

    I swear ever since Cathay was announced people just forget how long it takes for even a lord pack to be made, let alone full-blown 2-4 lord factions with new unique mechanics, technology, spells, units etc.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    However, it isn't a very nuanced or faithful representation of the source material. Hung are clearly distinct from the other Marauder people, just like Norscans and Kurgan also are.

    Those marauders that we have in the Norscan race aren't exclusively Norscan. Different tribes should have unique aspects, but the basis remains the same.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    MrDragon said:

    SerPus said:

    Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact.

    Sure, no one is arguing with that.


    So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.

    Why make Hung or Kurgan separate races if there is already a race that represents the northern tribes "in their natural habitat"? Just use it as a basis.
    For the same reason that Norsca was made seperate, and why Hobgoblins can potentially be made seperate. To add variety.

    Yes, you can achieve the same with just using the stock sample of Norsca and just renaming them to represent the Hung and other Marauder tribes. Just like you can use whatever Hobgoblin units are in the Chaos Dwarfs for potential Hobgoblin NPC factions. However, it isn't a very nuanced or faithful representation of the source material. Hung are clearly distinct from the other Marauder people, just like Norscans and Kurgan also are.

    You are advocating for the path of least resistance, literally on no other basis than it being the path of least resistance. However, if CA wishes to milk this cash cow they have created, such a development policy is going to lead the game into an early grave.
    Or give them the ability to sink money and time into actually very distinct factions like Ogres or Chaos Dwarves instead of expanding a the range of things we already have for the sake of faction-bloat.
    CA do not have infinite time and money.

    I swear ever since Cathay was announced people just forget how long it takes for even a lord pack to be made, let alone full-blown 2-4 lord factions with new unique mechanics, technology, spells, units etc.
    I have been saying from the begining that none of these factions should EVER take priority over Chaos Dwarfs or Ogres. But since Cathay and Kislev are being added, trying to pretend that the door remains closed for other minor lore factions, is beyond contrarian.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 11,358
    Part of the issue with using Norsca as a generic "Tribes of Chaos" is that the ice-theme is really only appropriate for the cold Chaos Wastes regions. So it does work somewhat with the north of Naggaroth as well as Norsca itself, but it doesn't work so well for the Eastern Steppe or the regions of the deep Chaos Wastes where the influence of the portals overrides the natural polar gates.

    From my understanding of the Kurgans, treating them as Warriors of Chaos probably isn't too far off. The Kurgans tend to be a bit deeper into Chaos worship than the Norscans are. Could even be a matter of the eastern Chaos tribes mostly simply being represented by monogods according to which god is the patron of each tribe rather than being united as one race, while the Norscan approach might work for some unaffiliated tribes in less corrupted (and, thus, in many cases, likely colder) areas.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 6,806
    SerPus said:

    hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.

    The difference between Norsca and hobgoblins is that many of norscan units already were in the game as WoC units and there are no hobgoblins.
    Chaos Dwarfs being an inevitably puts the Hobgoblins in the exact same spot as Norsca.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 6,806

    just like Norsca didn't take priority over Bretonnia, Beastmen or Wood Elves.

    Careful what you wish for dude. WE, Brettonia, and BM fans could only wish they traded place with Norsca
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 18,892

    just like Norsca didn't take priority over Bretonnia, Beastmen or Wood Elves.

    Careful what you wish for dude. WE, Brettonia, and BM fans could only wish they traded place with Norsca
    Yeah norsca will get dlc and dlc level rework.

    Bretonnia will get another tiny reworks one to fix techs , and get flc lord.

    Definitely wish to have neen in norsca shoes.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 11,358

    just like Norsca didn't take priority over Bretonnia, Beastmen or Wood Elves.

    Careful what you wish for dude. WE, Brettonia, and BM fans could only wish they traded place with Norsca
    Well, I think WE are doing fairly well at the moment, and from the perspectives of the people who were fine with the amber system as it was, Norsca might be in a similar state to WE in a couple of years. BM and Bretonnia, though... yeah, big oof.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 18,892
    Draxynnic said:

    just like Norsca didn't take priority over Bretonnia, Beastmen or Wood Elves.

    Careful what you wish for dude. WE, Brettonia, and BM fans could only wish they traded place with Norsca
    Well, I think WE are doing fairly well at the moment, and from the perspectives of the people who were fine with the amber system as it was, Norsca might be in a similar state to WE in a couple of years. BM and Bretonnia, though... yeah, big oof.
    I wouldn't say bm.are big oof, they too will get dlc for dlc alongside wood elf ot better level of rework.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • SbygneusSbygneus Registered Users Posts: 995
    Hobgoblins would be something new and interesting to play. Pity that the preorder will probably be another undead drop.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,186
    SerPus said:

    Itharus said:

    There's nothing to differentiate them from any other marauder tribe.

    Hung can be "Steppe people: the faction" that people want. Give them campaign mechanics that are different from Norsca, some pony cavalry, bigger focus on cavalry in general and either new hounds unit or just bonuses for Chaos Warhounds.
    That's my whole problem. That's simply not what THEY ARE. They have a different style from that. That would be COMPLETELY REINVENTING AN ALREADY EXTANT FACTION. It would destroy what already is.

    Meanwhile, you have the Hobgoblin Khans over here... which LITERALLY are precisely what you're talking about, just, Hobgoblins instead of humans. There would need be no destruction, no changing, no negative anything to make them.

    Do you see the difference here? Making the Kurgan into what you want would not only destroy the Kurgan, but also destroy the Hobgoblins via daylight robbery. That's incredibly effed up.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,186
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    Itharus said:

    MODIDDLY1 said:

    My money is on either Kurgans or Hobgoblins simply because Kislev and Cathay will need an early game enemy that is isn't Monogods

    Kurgans will 100% be in -- as a Marauder tribe -- which is exactly what they are. Most the other (well known) Marauder Tribes are already on the map, too. I can hands down guarantee you that you will be fighting lots of those guys in that area. They're pretty much all that lives up there, other than assorted eldritch horrors.

    Marauders, Spear Marauders, Javelin Marauders, Axe Thrower Marauders, Champion Marauders, Berserker Marauders, Javelin Horse Marauders, Axe Throwing Horse Marauders, Javelin Throwing Horse Marauders That Don't Suck, Marauder Chiefans, Chaos Sorcerers/Shaman, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Dragons, Chaos Giants, Armored Chaos Trolls, Chaos Warhounds (and poison ones), Marauder Chariots... that's all stuff in the game the marauder tribes have. There's also Fimir and Skinwolves and Mammoths, and Ice Trolls, and Ice Wolves but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the "norscan part" or not so I didn't include them. I can't remember if they have access to Dragon Ogres and Hellcannons or if that's just WoC. There's probably things they have that I forgot about by this point.

    Anyhoo... my whole point is... they're already a whole faction in the game. The main problem they have is overlap. Norsca got around this by adding "ice" monsters and Fimir and Mammoths and Skinwolves. I don't know if the normal Marauder tribes have that stuff or not (although they presently do in-game).

    I guess that's what's bugging me every time I hear someone calling for these guys -- they're already there! You can play them! If they added a Chieftain lord that gave bonuses to the horse marauders it'd basically be "mission complete" for Kurgan. If you strip out the Norscan stuff, then you'd have to borrow from Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos to fill those holes -- just like WoC (and presumably DoC) already borrow some Marauder units (if not all?). And then you have to ask yourself: "At what point is this just a WoC army with a Marauder Lord?".

    Chaos is a giant interdependent mess. This is actually the primary reason I think Monogods is a really stupid idea. Chaos as a WHOLE is one giant complete faction of unrivalled complexity and variety. Split them up and you just have a bunch of half-complete seeming one trick ponies. It's sad.

    But yeah... the Marauder Tribes are actually already in the game, and they're remarkably well done, actually. Norsca's great fun (although not very Norscan, honestly). What a lot of the people who want the Kurgan in seem to be asking for is not actually what they are; they want something new to take their place and have the same name.
    I mean, by that argument, Hobgoblins are in the game, just make them all goblins, and call it a day. Kurgans horse archers, regular archers, and chaos mutations. Hobgoblins are goblins, but sliiiightly taller. If CA want Kurgans, they can make them distinct enough to be different. If CA want Hobgoblins, they can make them distinct enough to be different.
    No, because Hobgoblins are an entirely separate race with an entirely separate culture with entirely separate style to Greenskins. Hobgoblins are by nature already very distinct from Greenskins.

    This kurgan fetish would be literally destroying what the Kurgan actually already are. Thinking they are Mongol analogues is actually a huge misconception on some folks' part here.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,186

    MrDragon said:

    SerPus said:

    Warriors of Chaos are made up of a majority of Kurgans, simple fact.

    Sure, no one is arguing with that.


    So the Kurgan is the least concern for representation as a "race" of their own. Hung on the other hand, could just as easily as Norsca and Hobgoblins be expanded upon and made unique. Hung would also have the added benefit of further diversifying the Great Steppes.

    Why make Hung or Kurgan separate races if there is already a race that represents the northern tribes "in their natural habitat"? Just use it as a basis.
    For the same reason that Norsca was made seperate, and why Hobgoblins can potentially be made seperate. To add variety.

    Yes, you can achieve the same with just using the stock sample of Norsca and just renaming them to represent the Hung and other Marauder tribes. Just like you can use whatever Hobgoblin units are in the Chaos Dwarfs for potential Hobgoblin NPC factions. However, it isn't a very nuanced or faithful representation of the source material. Hung are clearly distinct from the other Marauder people, just like Norscans and Kurgan also are.

    You are advocating for the path of least resistance, literally on no other basis than it being the path of least resistance. However, if CA wishes to milk this cash cow they have created, such a development policy is going to lead the game into an early grave.
    Or give them the ability to sink money and time into actually very distinct factions like Ogres or Chaos Dwarves instead of expanding a the range of things we already have for the sake of faction-bloat.
    CA do not have infinite time and money.

    I swear ever since Cathay was announced people just forget how long it takes for even a lord pack to be made, let alone full-blown 2-4 lord factions with new unique mechanics, technology, spells, units etc.
    I have been saying from the begining that none of these factions should EVER take priority over Chaos Dwarfs or Ogres. But since Cathay and Kislev are being added, trying to pretend that the door remains closed for other minor lore factions, is beyond contrarian.
    I don't think anyone's saying don't bring in CD or Ogre Kingdom so that we can have either of these? I don't give a hoot if Hobgoblins are the preorder or a DLC, I just want them, period. Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs are absolutely mandatory as core armies, frankly.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569


    That's simply not what THEY ARE.

    That's exactly what they are.


    Making the Kurgan into what you want would not only destroy the Kurgan, but also destroy the Hobgoblins via daylight robbery.

    I was talking about Hung, not Kurgan.
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