Core Mechanics for the Chaos Races in WH3

Captain_Rex#1635

Hello asinine Mortals and aspiring Daemons,

since the WH3 trailer was released we’ve been talking about potential Rosters for the 4 Monogod Races and Be‘Lakor *cough* sorry I meant the mysterious 9th LL.
What we haven’t speculated much about are potential Race mechanics for each Chaos Race. I don’t talk about faction mechanics like Groms Cauldron but overall Racial mechanics.

I think it’s fair to assume that there will be a massive step forward compared to WH2s Race mechanics. Sure Slaves, the Geomantic Web and Influence were okay back in 2017 but we have 2021 now and after Troy and 3k we need more than that in WH3.

So here my ideas about Potential Race mechanics for the Chaos Races.

Nurgle: Pox Laboratory

Nurgle is the easiest one to find some mechanics for. Having some basic Pox Cauldron or Alchemistic Laboratory would be a super fan mechanic and pretty comparable to Groms Cauldron or Throts Laboratory. But new. And unique.
You basically have to collect different alchemistic specimens and mix them together to create new Diseases. Depending on the „level“ of your Laboratory/Cauldron you can create more deadly diseases and even start a Worldwide Pandemic. Covid says hello.

Those diseases can be quite different.
- Buffs for your own troops
- Buffs for your own regions
- Penalties for enemy troops
- Penalties for enemy regions
- Mapwide buffs/penalties

Lore excerpt for Ku‘Gath:
„Ku'gath has discovered that ground Skaven bladder, for example, increases the virulence of Red Pox a hundredfold. Thus, in the cause of experimentation, Ku'gath makes a point of acquiring fresh specimens whenever he enters the mortal worlds.“

Now you might argue that this mechanic should be exclusive for Ku‘Gath but considering that he will most likely be the Core LL for Nurgle, I don’t expect any exclusive mechanics for him. Furthermore would it also be very fitting for Festus and basically every other LL so it makes sense to be a racial Mechanic for every Nurgle faction.

Tzeentch: The Eternal Scheme and Knowledge

Tzeentch is all about Schemes and Plots to fulfil his Plan. So I could see something similar to Cao Cao‘s Schemes mechanic for Fates Divided. This obviously would come with a general diplomacy overhaul in WH3.

So basically you would be able to manipulate other Armies, LLs, regions or even entire factions.
Each segment could be split in several tiered schemes with each being more powerful than the previous one.

For those who haven’t played 3k, something like this but obvious Upgraded for WH:



Next to that Tzeentch could have a very unique working Technology Tree that represents Knowledge.

Khorne: Rage, Honour and Blood Runes

Khorne should be the most straightforward Race in WH3. So the Race Mechanics should represent that. Something about gaining Momentum and fighting other Armies and LLs would be fitting.

Depending on your playstyle you would get fitting targets you have to fulfil. Something like Destroy X race or defeat X LL in battle. Fulfilling these increases your Honour and Rage.

That sounds pretty boring first but it would come together with 2 exclusive faction currencies that would work similar to those faction currencies from 3k:
- Rage and Bloodlust
- Honour

These currencies would obviously be visualised with a bar since CA loves Bars. More Bars for the Bar God!

You can spend these currencies in 2 extra tabs with fancy buttons to get certain temporary bonuses but also penalties.

Next to that Khorne should get a simple Forge mechanic to upgrade and buff units. Blood Runes would be very thematic and make up for the lack of magic. Not a copy pasted Dawi forge, but something unique and new.

Slaanesh: Cults and Obsession

I could see something like establishing secret Cults in foreign settlements but that wouldn’t be something new and should hence not be the only mechanic. Would still be fitting.

Obsession would be the second mechanic and be visualised in a new Fancy extra Tab with lots of buttons to push. We all love fancy tabs with buttons right? That tab would be split in 4 segments:
- Pleasure
- Excess
- Decadence
- Passion

You can focus on all these aspects of Slaanesh to unlock certain buffs, effects and even unique units. But careful! You won’t be able to maximise all 4 aspects (ironically I know) so you would have to fanatically focus on 1 or 2 aspects for maximum bonuses. Be obsessed with something! Play like a true Follower of Slaanesh.

Depending on which aspect you decide to follow, your campaign will play out completely different since these 4 aspects get effected by your actions in campaign and battle.

Be‘Lakor aka Daemons of Chaos: Challenge of the Gods

First of all, Be‘Lakor should be implemented like DoC in their Armybook. So you would be able to recruit ALL god aligned Daemonic units, Lords and heroes.

But you wouldn’t be able to recruit them all right from the start. You have to work for it. Your campaign represents the Rise of Be‘Lakor.

You start with a very limited roster of mostly undivided Chaos Units (we might see brand new Undivided units). Then with the progress of your campaign, you have to challenge the 4 Chaos Gods. Fight battles against them, conquer their territory and gain more and more power. Play the great Game!

This would be represented with several power stages for each Chaos God. Each stage comes with new unlockable units, buffs and diplomacy options.

So reaching stage 1 for the 4 chaos gods should be very easy. This would give you access to basic god aligned units like Daemonettes, Blaguebringers, Horrors and Bloodletters. It would also open basic diplomacy options with the respective Chaos God Race. Similar to how Diplomacy works in 3k.

On the last stage you would unlock the best Elite units and even be able to confederate other daemonic god Aligned LLs like Ku‘Gath, Skulltaker, Masque of Slaanesh and so on.

This would be the ultimate game experience for those who want a true DoC campaign true to the armybook.

Beef545

Personally I think such mechanics are a wrong direction for CA to focus on. It is a shame they are giving it more and more attention with every DLC. TW should be about Battles and City management, WH TW already struggles with the latter. I know those mini-games like caouldron bring flavour to certain races, but races can be made distinct by focusing more on those 2 aspects I mentioned. Giving race an additonal button to open some tab with buffs in it feels like a cheap way to solve the issue.

Captain_Rex#1635

Beef545 said:

Personally I think such mechanics are a wrong direction for CA to focus on. It is a shame they are giving it more and more attention with every DLC. TW should be about Battles and City management, WH TW already struggles with the latter. I know those mini-games like caouldron bring flavour to certain races, but races can be made distinct by focusing more on those 2 aspects I mentioned. Giving race an additonal button to open some tab with buffs in it feels like a cheap way to solve the issue.

People like unique mechanics and CA knows that.

If you don't like that go back and play Shogun 2 or Rome...

RebelPeasant#5525

Wow, I know posts like these are speculative, but it just keeps driving up my hype, as someone who isn’t really well versed in the lore(Total War got me into Warhammer). It would be nice if Be’Lakor got access to the god’s mechanics when he confederated them, but in hindsight that would probably be stupidly over powered.

EmeraldThanatos#7267

I think that looking at Troy would be a good idea for mechanics, because Saga games are used to test new things. Things like the recruitment system of Thrones, which was later implemented in 3k. For this reason I think that Belakors mechanic is extremely likely, because its similar to the favour of the gods from Troy.

sasori1548#7252

Those are some nice ideas not gonna lie. I really hope they give Be'lakor the chance to actually become a god. Maybe as a end-game goal or something? As far as i know malekith kinda becomes a god in the vortex campaigns ending.

Bayes#3307

These are some good suggestions. I hope every god gets some cult mechanic though.

Witch_King#3646

In a similar discussion in the past someone called Helhound posted this, i really liked his ideas

Helhound said:

Tzeentch
Cult Deception:

Every 2-5 turns, random, Tzeentch will provide a new task to be completed in service of the Great Plan, going into a fancy UI log keeping track of each of the other missions. In keeping with his nature, this could be literally anything. From declaring non-aggression packs or war, to defeating a particular army or lord. Capture or kill a certain number of people, hire a specific hero, you get the picture. Completing these tasks furthers the Great Plan, and garners a faction resource called Deception. Deception functions very similar to Clan Eshin schemes, but with a greater focus on affecting diplomacy. So with it you could cause an enormous range of debuffs to enemy factions or armies by using Sorcerors just like you would Eshin Assassins. Proxy wars being one of the more powerful effects available through deception, but you could also steal vision, steal money, greatly weaken key points etc.


Khorne
Bloodshed:

Khorne demands war and blood, yours or theirs. The faction generates a momentum resource that has its own set of bonuses as you reach certain thresholds. Mostly campaign movement and upkeep reduction, but it would also improve the offensive effectiveness of units factionwide. This resource is generated by declaring war, fighting battles win or lose, and dedeating legendary lords. The more value murdered by both sides, the more Bloodshed is generated. The higher it is, the faster it drains, but the greater the bonuses as well. Encouraging a fast tempo and risk taking at every opportunity. If you've ever played Sun Ce in 3k, it's not too dissimilar from how his works. Minus the LL instant death for failure to maintain. The idea is that Khorne should be a rolling death ball of aggression compared to the other gods, and way stronger when allowed to just freely wage war.


Slaanesh
Perfection:

Slaanesh favors those who obsess over every fine detail no matter how arbitrary. For every lord and hero above level 20, for every settlement at rank 5, and each time you score a decisive or heroic victory, you gain the favor of Slaanesh over time. Slaanesh is fickle though, and anytime you score anything but a decisive victory, fail at a hero action, or just occupy without sacking/looting a settlement, you start to lose the favor of Slaanesh. You can use the favor of Slaanesh to influence key actiivities though, such as dramatically increasing success chance of a hero action, give a settlement a sudden burst of growth, or instantly complete a building. Slaanesh is the win more faction. It's not enough to battle and build, you must battle and build with the absolute maximum efficiency in mind.


Nurgle
Creeping Rot:

Nurgle does nothing quickly and here that remains truer than ever. More than any other god, Nurgle plays around corruption. Every settlement that you occupy with Nurgle has a scaling effect that works with the level of corruption currently at that location. As it goes up, the settlement gets significant boosts to growth and income. As it goes low, the opposite. When corruption from an adjacent Nurgle settlement hits an opposing faction, it will start to inflict penalties. Same as usual Chaos just a bit stronger, and the ability to inflict attrition to units inside the settlement. Garrison included. Additionally, causing attrition though this method starts to rack up a plague tally. It also climbs with friendly settlements above 50% just significantly slower. This plague tally can be used to target specific provinces to cause a massive spike in corruption at that province through Nurgles pestilent gifts. A plague tally can target a freindly army instead to gift it a significant replenishment boost for the turn.

AxiosXiphos#9040

I think it would be interesting if Khorne had a mechanic which encouraged phyrric victories. So the more blood shed (on both sides) the better the rewards after it.

It would encourage you to throw your troops away in bloody battles of attrition rather then seek quick victories, purposefully shoot artillery into melee engagements - and to make needless risks. All very Khornate things.

TheShiroOfDalton

AxiosXiphos said:

I think it would be interesting if Khorne had a mechanic which encouraged phyrric victories. So the more blood shed (on both sides) the better the rewards after it.

It would encourage you to throw your troops away in bloody battles of attrition rather then seek quick victories, purposefully shoot artillery into melee engagements - and to make needless risks. All very Khornate things.

His allegiance ability in AoS works like that, for every model that dies, no matter if it's yours or the enemy's, you get blood points you can invest in various boons. Kinda' like a more advanced version of the Dark Elf battle mechanic in this game.

TheShiroOfDalton

Here are my own ideas for Chaos mecahnics:

1.Khorne
Khorne requires there to be conflict, so his power should wax the more battles happen every turn and wane the more peaceful the world is. You should be given missions that serve the purpose of increasing anger and hatred on the world and with every level you reach, diplomatic relations between factions should break down, ending with everyone fighting everyone and unreason and therefore Khorne reigning supreme

2.Nurgle
He should get a reverse forest healing mechanic where he's guided to attack and corrupt certain hotspots per continent which, upon completion, would turn that continent into a blighted wasteland and increase Nurgle's influence in the world. His power would decrease if those hotspots were purified

3.Tzeentch
The architect of fate despises stagnation and encourages change and progress, so he becomes stronger the more factions in the world increase their knowledge or progress forward and weaker if knowledge is destroyed and progress halted. Any faction that reached higher levels of development would become more vulnerable to Tzeentch's manipulations and eventually fall under his sway completely. So yes, in defiance of normal TW logic, Tzeentch would benefit from not being the strongest faction on the map all the time and even be encouraged to fight against other destructive forces, but that's Tzeentch for ya'

4.Slaanesh
Slaanesh's the deity of self-indulgence so his mechanic should revolve around nurturing and corrupting characters that reach high levels of skill. Basically, he gets to choose a set of characters (in addition to his own) that become more open to his influence the higher skill levels they reach, and his power grows as those champions fulfill great deeds. And with every level they gain, Slaanesh can more outwardly control their actions and goals until they become his champions completely

Captain_Rex#1635

AxiosXiphos said:

I think it would be interesting if Khorne had a mechanic which encouraged phyrric victories. So the more blood shed (on both sides) the better the rewards after it.

It would encourage you to throw your troops away in bloody battles of attrition rather then seek quick victories, purposefully shoot artillery into melee engagements - and to make needless risks. All very Khornate things.

Yeah stuff like that should increase your Rage7Bloodlust/Bloodshed bar. Would motivate players to play more agressive and also look for super hard battles you barely can win and usually would avoid. Would completely change the way you play Khorne.

DeadpoolSW#7283

Maybe change the Be'lakor one so you can get basic troops from each god, but you have to best them to get their elites/greater daemons. Also it would be cool if he had a mechanic about finding a champion (though this will likely be his "Vortex" story/goal).

DrazhoaththeAshen#9598

Beef545 said:

Personally I think such mechanics are a wrong direction for CA to focus on. It is a shame they are giving it more and more attention with every DLC. TW should be about Battles and City management, WH TW already struggles with the latter. I know those mini-games like caouldron bring flavour to certain races, but races can be made distinct by focusing more on those 2 aspects I mentioned. Giving race an additonal button to open some tab with buffs in it feels like a cheap way to solve the issue.

Are unique mechanics like the cauldron mutually exclusive with things like a battle or city focus? Without getting into how much the cauldron specifically supercharges Grom, something like that can add further depth to both battles and city management. Grom is proof of that. As far as I am concerned, finding a way to create all of that uniqueness and have it play in conjunction with base game functioning is half the job...

And let's not forget that this is both a Total War title and a Warhammer title. You have to respect both components, and the latter is very much defined by lots of unique accoutrements that manifest in a game like this as "additional buttons."

Heretical_Cactus#7598

What if Khorne get resplendishement when on enemy territories ?

elkapp

AxiosXiphos said:

I think it would be interesting if Khorne had a mechanic which encouraged phyrric victories. So the more blood shed (on both sides) the better the rewards after it.

It would encourage you to throw your troops away in bloody battles of attrition rather then seek quick victories, purposefully shoot artillery into melee engagements - and to make needless risks. All very Khornate things.

The issue with that is that the entire game is built around punishing the player for losing, and a 10 min fix will probably just make Khorne's campaign borign af. It just conflict with so much stuff that i don't see it being used.

Beef545 said:

Personally I think such mechanics are a wrong direction for CA to focus on. It is a shame they are giving it more and more attention with every DLC. TW should be about Battles and City management, WH TW already struggles with the latter. I know those mini-games like caouldron bring flavour to certain races, but races can be made distinct by focusing more on those 2 aspects I mentioned. Giving race an additonal button to open some tab with buffs in it feels like a cheap way to solve the issue.

The fact is, CA is probably not gonna fix big issues anyway. The only one they want to fix is sieges, and kind of everyone expect that rework to be ****, because everyone knows that CA won't do more than it's required. It never did, and probably never will, be with big stuff like sieges or campaign balance or minor ones like forcing variants where ammo switch/weapon switch would have been way better.

CaesarSahlertz

Most of these honestly sounds more like individual faction mechanics. The umbrella racial mechanics for Chaos should be something that emphasises the interplay and counterplay between the Chaos Gods.

Captain_Rex#1635

CaesarSahlertz said:

Most of these honestly sounds more like individual faction mechanics. The umbrella racial mechanics for Chaos should be something that emphasises the interplay and counterplay between the Chaos Gods.

There isn’t a Chaos Race just the 4 monogods.

Did Elves all got the same mechanics? Nope.

CaesarSahlertz

ArneSo said:

CaesarSahlertz said:

Most of these honestly sounds more like individual faction mechanics. The umbrella racial mechanics for Chaos should be something that emphasises the interplay and counterplay between the Chaos Gods.

There isn’t a Chaos Race just the 4 monogods.

Did Elves all got the same mechanics? Nope.

Did I even once say "Chaos race"? No I didn't.. Did I? I actually didn't say that. I said the umbrella racial mechanics, which obviously refer to the same kind of emchanic as ALL High Elves have. So for instance ALL Khorne factions would have the same mechanic. And THAT mechanic should be something that plays off of the other Chaos Gods racial mechanic. Try to keep up.