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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - Dwarfs (Updated)

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 457
edited July 2021 in General Discussion
Hello all,

I thought that it'd be fun to share my take on thematic army compositions, starting with the Dwarfs. For me, using thematic armies is not only fun, but it encourages me to use units that I wouldn't otherwise recruit, and it adds a lot to the replayability within a single faction. I generally try and have a spellcaster hero with a melee lord and vis versa, but with the Dwarfs, a Runesmith is the closest thing to a spellcaster hero.

Disclaimer: I am not a lore expert by any means, and I am not saying that every army I list is feasible on legendary. Some armies are expensive; I do not care about multiplayer.

1) High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer

Thorgrim is technologically inclined, so he gets the more advanced unit types.

Thorgrim
Master Engineer
Hammerers x5
Peak Gate Guard
Thunderers x4
Gyrobombers x3
Skyhammer
Organ Gun x4

2) Grombrindal the White Dwarf

Grombrindal has no unique skill that buffs any particular unit, so for him I picked a theme of old age and fire to set him apart. Play ME without the Chaos invasion and go get Malekith!

Grombrindal
Runesmith
Longbeards (Great Weapons) x3*
Longbeards x2*
The Grumbling Guard
Irondrakes x2
The Skolder Guard
Quarellers (Great Weapons) x3
Gyrocopters (Brimstone Gun) x3
Flame Cannons x3

*I tweaked these quantities to improve the army versatility.

3) Ungrim Ironfist

Probably the most obvious, went with a slayer theme.

Ungrim
Runesmith
Slayers x4
Dragonback Slayers
Giant Slayers x5
Bugman's Rangers x4*
Gyrocopters x4*

4) Belegar Irongammer

King Lunn Ironhammer is the worse of the two ethereal Thanes and is therefore more useful on the campaign map.

Belegar
Halkenhaf Stonebeard (Thane)
Dramar Hammerfist (Master Engineer)
Throni Ironrow (Runesmith)
Ironbreakers x5*
Normgrimling's Ironbreakers
Rangers x2
Rangers (Great Weapons) x2
Ulthar's Raiders
Irondrakes (Trollhammer Torpedo) x2
Cannons x3*

5) Thorek Ironbrow

Thorek on Anvil of Doom
Thane
Master Engineer
Warriors of Dragonfire Pass
Dwarf Warriors x2
Dwarf Warriors (Great Weapons) x3
Quarellers x5
Gob-Lobbers
Grudge Throwers x2
Bolt Throwers x2
Yoked Carnosaur

Finally, a sufficiently OP Dwarf faction to allocate basic Dwarf Warriors to! Thorek beautifully used up a lot of leftover units from the roster that I didn't use in the other lists. He greatly boosts the Grudge Throwers, Bolt Throwers, and Quarrellers, and has unique access to the Yoked Carnosaur. The rest was just infantry and heroes, and boom, there's the list. I haven't actually played as him yet, so I am curious if the ethereal Thane is just a summon in-battle or if you get one as a permanent unit. If it's the latter, then obviously I'd replace the generic Thane in the build with the ethereal one.

Tell me what you think! The Dwarfs aren't a very difficult faction to break up thematically, but maybe this will be useful to newer players. I'll post my take on other races soon.

*Edits based on KuntingWarrior's suggestions
Post edited by GoldfishLord on

Comments

  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 457

    Take out the quarrellers for Bugman's Rangers in Ungrim's army (He and Bugman join forces and fight together in the end times) and replace the grudgethrowers with 2 flame cannons and 2 gyrocoptor's as Karak Kadrin has a small airforce garrisoned.

    Belegar should have a very heavy frontline of ironbreakers, say 6 or 7, take away the bolt throwers and irondrake torpedos, give him cannons and regular irondrakes. Throw him a couple of slayer units as Karak Eight Peaks is rife with dwarfs taking the oath due to the ruthless nature of life in K8P

    Thanks for the input!

    I'll take your suggestion for Ungrim in regards to the Bugman's Rangers; it feels better putting them there than in Belegar's army. I'm not sure where you're getting the Flame Cannons from, but I like the idea of Gyrocopters in his army. Not knowing the detailed lore, I wasn't sure if Ungrim had an aversion to newer technology or not. If not, then I'd probably just remove all artillery and replace those units with normal Gyrocopters.

    Belegar was hard because from what I've heard, his DLC units don't fit him all that well. He got Bolt Throwers instead of Cannons just because I didn't know what else to do with Bolt Throwers and they came with his DLC, but I don't mind at all switching to Cannons. Do you have a lore reason for wanting to change the Irondrakes? There's a lot of anti-infantry in there already and I like the idea of having ranged anti-large that can shoot over the shield wall. Ironbreakers can melt infantry almost as well as Irondrakes and at similar range, so the Trollhammer Torpedo has a nice niche. As for Slayers, when you start Belegar's campaign, you don't have Karak Eight Peaks! I try to avoid having different melee infantry types in an army (a loose rule) so that I invest in fewer red skill tree perks, though in this case they may actually be the same perk.
  • BeelzeBeelze Registered Users Posts: 341
    I always try to run thematic armies as well, the game gets more fun for me this way.

    If you are into mods I can recommend Mixus Legendary Lords, you get some more LL for Dwarfs that you can set up with some thematic armies (Thorek, Kazador, Kragg, Grimm).
  • KlausTheKatKlausTheKat Registered Users Posts: 595
    If I ever confederate Karak Hirn and Lord Alrik Ranulfsson then I always make sure to give him a Traditionalist Dawi throng of Infantry armed with Crossbows, Az' and Shields backed up by Bolt throwers and Grudgethrowers.

    King Alrik considers himself a staunch traditionalist Dawi and doesn't have any truck with new fangled blackpowder contraptions.
  • sasori1548sasori1548 Registered Users Posts: 568
    I usually go with thematic armies with generic lords/heroes. I name each lord/hero in a unique way and it makes the campaign so much more fun.
  • Ulthuan_VolcanoUlthuan_Volcano Registered Users Posts: 299
    interesting, can you do something similar for the wood elves?
    http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/ Ulthuan, Home of the Asur. If any high elf player is in the hobby too I would suggest you to check this forum.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 6,063
    Hammerers frontline for Thorgrim? It seems to me lad that you want your High King dead :'(
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,672

    Take out the quarrellers for Bugman's Rangers in Ungrim's army (He and Bugman join forces and fight together in the end times) and replace the grudgethrowers with 2 flame cannons and 2 gyrocoptor's as Karak Kadrin has a small airforce garrisoned.

    Belegar should have a very heavy frontline of ironbreakers, say 6 or 7, take away the bolt throwers and irondrake torpedos, give him cannons and regular irondrakes. Throw him a couple of slayer units as Karak Eight Peaks is rife with dwarfs taking the oath due to the ruthless nature of life in K8P

    Thanks for the input!

    I'll take your suggestion for Ungrim in regards to the Bugman's Rangers; it feels better putting them there than in Belegar's army. I'm not sure where you're getting the Flame Cannons from, but I like the idea of Gyrocopters in his army. Not knowing the detailed lore, I wasn't sure if Ungrim had an aversion to newer technology or not. If not, then I'd probably just remove all artillery and replace those units with normal Gyrocopters.

    Belegar was hard because from what I've heard, his DLC units don't fit him all that well. He got Bolt Throwers instead of Cannons just because I didn't know what else to do with Bolt Throwers and they came with his DLC, but I don't mind at all switching to Cannons. Do you have a lore reason for wanting to change the Irondrakes? There's a lot of anti-infantry in there already and I like the idea of having ranged anti-large that can shoot over the shield wall. Ironbreakers can melt infantry almost as well as Irondrakes and at similar range, so the Trollhammer Torpedo has a nice niche. As for Slayers, when you start Belegar's campaign, you don't have Karak Eight Peaks! I try to avoid having different melee infantry types in an army (a loose rule) so that I invest in fewer red skill tree perks, though in this case they may actually be the same perk.
    Grudge and bolt throwers are actually very thematic for Belegar imho, alongside quarrelers and all variants of Ironbreakers (which includes Irondrakes). IIRC the lore correctly, gunpowder isn't really used in underground battles with the tension powered stuff (outside Irondrake weapons and flamecannon ofc) dominating that battlefield. I hope the reason is obvious.
    Given that Belegar's quest involves mostly underground work focusing a bit on that might fit.

    In general I'd always include a few Ironbreakers (and/or Drakes) as they basically are the standing part of the dwarven army and warriors with a handful mixed in longbeards, as the militia the mainstay of Dawi millitary. Obviously 1 or 2 units Hammerers, any kings bodyguard, as a napoleonic old guard style reserve are also a universal fit, except for Ungrim who has no use for a Bodyguard.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 457

    Hammerers frontline for Thorgrim? It seems to me lad that you want your High King dead :'(

    I eviscerated a well-built Vampire Coast army with that build haha. They barely touched the hammerers. It may not be the best legendary build, though.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 457

    interesting, can you do something similar for the wood elves?

    I was planning on hitting most factions starting with the Old World races if the posts garnered enough non-toxic attention lol. So far it seems good. So, sure! Just remember: I'm not a lore expert! My interpretations are based off of in-game bonuses and what seems right thematically if I don't have an obvious point of reference.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 18,879

    Hammerers frontline for Thorgrim? It seems to me lad that you want your High King dead :'(

    I mean hammers are not half bad now unless Ai spam ranged.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,672

    Take out the quarrellers for Bugman's Rangers in Ungrim's army (He and Bugman join forces and fight together in the end times) and replace the grudgethrowers with 2 flame cannons and 2 gyrocoptor's as Karak Kadrin has a small airforce garrisoned.

    Belegar should have a very heavy frontline of ironbreakers, say 6 or 7, take away the bolt throwers and irondrake torpedos, give him cannons and regular irondrakes. Throw him a couple of slayer units as Karak Eight Peaks is rife with dwarfs taking the oath due to the ruthless nature of life in K8P

    Thanks for the input!

    I'll take your suggestion for Ungrim in regards to the Bugman's Rangers; it feels better putting them there than in Belegar's army. I'm not sure where you're getting the Flame Cannons from, but I like the idea of Gyrocopters in his army. Not knowing the detailed lore, I wasn't sure if Ungrim had an aversion to newer technology or not. If not, then I'd probably just remove all artillery and replace those units with normal Gyrocopters.

    Belegar was hard because from what I've heard, his DLC units don't fit him all that well. He got Bolt Throwers instead of Cannons just because I didn't know what else to do with Bolt Throwers and they came with his DLC, but I don't mind at all switching to Cannons. Do you have a lore reason for wanting to change the Irondrakes? There's a lot of anti-infantry in there already and I like the idea of having ranged anti-large that can shoot over the shield wall. Ironbreakers can melt infantry almost as well as Irondrakes and at similar range, so the Trollhammer Torpedo has a nice niche. As for Slayers, when you start Belegar's campaign, you don't have Karak Eight Peaks! I try to avoid having different melee infantry types in an army (a loose rule) so that I invest in fewer red skill tree perks, though in this case they may actually be the same perk.
    Grudge and bolt throwers are actually very thematic for Belegar imho, alongside quarrelers and all variants of Ironbreakers (which includes Irondrakes). IIRC the lore correctly, gunpowder isn't really used in underground battles with the tension powered stuff (outside Irondrake weapons and flamecannon ofc) dominating that battlefield. I hope the reason is obvious.
    Given that Belegar's quest involves mostly underground work focusing a bit on that might fit.

    In general I'd always include a few Ironbreakers (and/or Drakes) as they basically are the standing part of the dwarven army and warriors with a handful mixed in longbeards, as the militia the mainstay of Dawi millitary. Obviously 1 or 2 units Hammerers, any kings bodyguard, as a napoleonic old guard style reserve are also a universal fit, except for Ungrim who has no use for a Bodyguard.
    Belegar uses plenty of gunpowder underground, he has many battles with cannons in his army in the lore, In K8P bolt throwers are used less and only really as stationary defences inside chokepoints and the main gates.

    His last ever battle is even underground with his remaining dwarf warriors surrounding and protecting a cannon so that it can expand its remaining ammunition before they inevitably get wiped out.
    Yeah, that's kind of a contradiction in the lore. The unit lore of throwers states that they are preferred underground due to blackpowder smoke but in the stories told in the depths usually depict gunnery.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,672
    Maybe I'd consider Ironbreakers (only problematic because of mining charges) and Longbeards for Thorek. He's the ultimate conservative old grumbler and obviously the gromril runic dude. Ironbreakers are particularly famous for their Gromril armor and probably runic stuff too, given that they are one of the very few proffesional units (most are militia).
    I know that you're happy to have someone to include those basic units - and in the ranged department that's absolutely right - but those two (minus Irondrakes, who actually are Ironbreakers) fit the old runelord more than anyone else. Also with his digging up stuff and reclaiming ancient holds (apparently. In the lore there's actually nothing remotely dwarven on the western continents) campaign miners might be fitting too. They're kind of on the opposite end of the infantry spectrum though.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 457

    Maybe I'd consider Ironbreakers (only problematic because of mining charges) and Longbeards for Thorek. He's the ultimate conservative old grumbler and obviously the gromril runic dude. Ironbreakers are particularly famous for their Gromril armor and probably runic stuff too, given that they are one of the very few proffesional units (most are militia).
    I know that you're happy to have someone to include those basic units - and in the ranged department that's absolutely right - but those two (minus Irondrakes, who actually are Ironbreakers) fit the old runelord more than anyone else. Also with his digging up stuff and reclaiming ancient holds (apparently. In the lore there's actually nothing remotely dwarven on the western continents) campaign miners might be fitting too. They're kind of on the opposite end of the infantry spectrum though.

    I'd be fine with giving Thorek Miners (Blasting Charges) and Ironbreakers, but I wouldn't want to take away from Belegar. Without his Ironbreakers, he'd by far have the weakest Dwarf army of the LL's. I can't say that my take is "correct", but Thorek's campaign is already technically unloreful. You could argue that an invasion force into another continent would include the formal military, the Ironbreakers, but so far I've chosen to take the stance of Thorek leading a small expeditionary force comprised of his local militia forces in Lustria. It's hard to envision Longbeards (or old grumblers) giving up on settling grudges to go sail across the ocean to relatively non-mountainous jungle territory. Basically, I don't see a "right" answer for Thorek that doesn't take away from the other LL's, so I've just chosen to focus on his in-game bonuses for his build.
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