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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - Vampire Counts

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377
edited July 2021 in General Discussion
Hello all,

I'm continuing to share my take on thematic army compositions, so here's the Vampire Counts. They get repetitive in regards to their infantry, but it can't be helped. Their lord variety is greater than their infantry variety.

Disclaimer: I am not a lore expert by any means, and I am not saying that every army I list is feasible on legendary. Some armies are expensive; I do not care about multiplayer.

1) Mannfred von Carstein

Mannfred on Zombie Dragon
Vampire (Death) on Hellsteed, melee focus
Vampire (Shadows) on Hellsteed, hybrid focus
Grave Guard x3
The Sternsmen
Grave Guard (Great Weapons) x4
Black Knights x2
Black Knights (Lances & Barding)
Verek's Reavers
Varghulf x3
Terrorgheist x2

No lord restrictions, invests in varied bloodlines.

2) Vlad von Carstein

The Blood Knights that Vlad starts with obviously suit the Blood Dragons, so I dropped them out of his army. He still has the aristocratic cavalry theme, though.

Vlad
Vampire (Death) on Barded Nightmare
Vampire (Shadows) on Barded Nightmare
Grave Guard x2
The Sternsmen
Grave Guard (Great Weapons) x3
Sylvanian Handgunners*
Sylvanian Crossbowmen x3*
Black Knights x3
Black Knights (Lances & Barding) x2
Verek's Reavers

*Unfortunately, you can only have one unit of Handgunners. Sad day.

All Lords are von Carstein bloodline lords or generic Vampire Lords (renamed as a von Carstein), every army has Vampire heroes. Possibly a Lahmian lord.

3) Isabella von Carstein

Isabella is the only VC that I don't intend to start with, as I'd rather play Vlad. That said, she is the best candidate for an airforce.

Isabella on Hellsteed
Vampire (Death) on Hellsteed, hybrid focus
Vampire (Shadows) on Hellsteed, melee focus
Grave Guard x2
The Sternsmen
Grave Guard (Great Weapons) x3
Sylvanian Crossbowmen x3
Vargheists x4
The Devils of Swartzhafen
Black Coach x3

All Lords are von Carstein bloodline lords or generic Vampire Lords (renamed as a von Carstein), every army has Vampire heroes.

4) Helman Ghorst

Now we'll get controversial. So, I don't expect to get a Strigoi LL. Therefore, with Ghorst, for variety's sake, I included some Strigoi units and the Strigoi bloodline lords. It is NOT an ideal army, but it was a challenge, and I'll relay my experience with it in a different thread.

Ghorst on The Brothers Ghorst Corpse Cart
Necromancer on Corpse Cart (Unholy Lodestone)*
Banshee
Zombies x4
The Tithe
Dire Wolves x2
The Direpack
Crypt Horrors x5*
Corpse Cart (Unholy Lodestone)*
Mortis Engine x2
The Claw of Nagash

All Lords are Strigoi bloodline lords or Strigoi Ghoul Kings, every army besides Ghorst's has a Necromancer hero. Maxes Strigoi bloodline, then goes into Necrarch for the magic and research bonuses. Strigoi armies have Crypt Ghouls, Crypt Horrors, Dire Wolves, and either Fell Bats or Terrorgheists.

5) Heinrich Kemmler

With Kemmler, I went with an (almost) full ethereal army. The three heroes all have different functions - anti-infantry, anti-character, and anti-large, respectively.

Kemmler on Barded Nightmare
Wight King (unmounted)
Banshee
Krell
Cairn Wraiths x6
Hexwraiths x5
The Chillgheists
Mortis Engine x3
Claw of Nagash

All Lords are Master Necromancers, no Vampires in this playthrough! Heroes are Wight Kings and Banshees. Unlocks Necrarch bloodline first for magic bonuses.

I didn't put Blood Knights in any of the lists because they'd go best with The Red Duke with the Blood Dragon bloodline once his FLC drops.

Again, I'd be interested to hear what people think.

*Edits made based on doclumbago's and Magicspook's input
Post edited by GoldfishLord on

Comments

  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 935
    Why would you want 3 corpse carts, 3 mortis engines and a lord on a corpse cart in one army? That's 7 unit slots taken up by a unit that is incapable of fighting and whose AoE buff doesn't stack. I'd say 2 carts max in a single army.
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 2,134
    Yeah for Ghorst, just have two Necromancers on Corpse Carts plus a Mortis Engine
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 1,182
    Isn't there lock for 4*crossbowmen + 1* handgunners?
  • KlausTheKatKlausTheKat Registered Users Posts: 587
    Keeping 2x Lahmian lords together accompanied by 2x Blue skilled Wight Kings is a ridiculously powerful way to grab a lot of territory fast. Rest of their armies can literally be free skellies just to make up the numbers.

    Keep them together, use the 2x wight kings to assault garrison in the same turn (100% chance and completely free thanks to Lahmian skills) then attack and AR with the Lords and skellies, you will easily win and shouldn't lose a single unit. I don't play legendary as I like to pause sometimes but can confirm this works on VH like a charm.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377

    Why would you want 3 corpse carts, 3 mortis engines and a lord on a corpse cart in one army? That's 7 unit slots taken up by a unit that is incapable of fighting and whose AoE buff doesn't stack. I'd say 2 carts max in a single army.

    Hmmm, I thought that the buff stacked. Ghorst has a Corpse Cart thing, but they suck. I'll replace one with more Crypt Horrors - they're the main killing power in the army besides Ghorst himself, who I would say fights fine. He's just slow. The Mortis Engines get an ok amount of kills when mixed in with melee infantry, but like I said, it's an intentional move to have the army a little weak. Maybe I'll swap out another Corpse Cart for a mounted Necromancer hero as doclumbago suggested.

    What is kind of neat is that with Ghorst's army, every "cart" gets a free zombie summon. It's sort of useful to spawn zombies on the other side of walls during sieges, right before I breach the gates, so that when my Horrors charge in, they're now flanking the defenders. Obviously Ghorst can do this himself, but its nice when it's free. I've made do, but the above suggestions are decent. Having just one unit in an army is questionable in regards to having it fill a thematic role, but this particular unit is just bad enough to make me consider it.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377
    Loreguy said:

    Isn't there lock for 4*crossbowmen + 1* handgunners?

    I honestly don't know; I haven't invested in the von Carstein bloodline before. My last Vlad campaign was in WH1.
  • capybarasiesta89capybarasiesta89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,192
    Knowledgeable, Disciplined, Cunning Necro is needed in each army.
    #JusticeForTzeentch #JusticeForMonogods

    7bmg1fojzz69.jpg
  • KlausTheKatKlausTheKat Registered Users Posts: 587

    Loreguy said:

    Isn't there lock for 4*crossbowmen + 1* handgunners?

    I honestly don't know; I haven't invested in the von Carstein bloodline before. My last Vlad campaign was in WH1.
    IIRC you get 3x Crossbows and 1x Handgunner for unlocking 3x VonC lords through the bloodlines mechanic. Those VonC lords each have a skill that gives them an additional crossbow unit allowing for 6x Crossbows and 1x Handgunner in total. You can also get additional VonC Bloodline lords through confederation to expand on this even more (although the AI tends to recruit Blood Dragon Lords the most in my experience)
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 1,426
    I like these posts.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377

    Loreguy said:

    Isn't there lock for 4*crossbowmen + 1* handgunners?

    I honestly don't know; I haven't invested in the von Carstein bloodline before. My last Vlad campaign was in WH1.
    IIRC you get 3x Crossbows and 1x Handgunner for unlocking 3x VonC lords through the bloodlines mechanic. Those VonC lords each have a skill that gives them an additional crossbow unit allowing for 6x Crossbows and 1x Handgunner in total. You can also get additional VonC Bloodline lords through confederation to expand on this even more (although the AI tends to recruit Blood Dragon Lords the most in my experience)
    Well that's a tad disappointing. Good to know, though. I guess I'd just give Vlad the one handgunner and swap units between lords to give him three crossbowmen.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377

    I like these posts.

    Thanks! I'll be doing more but I'm working today so I'm not sure if I'll get to it.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,740
    I enjoy making thematic armies for all factions love the posts even though we differ in our thematic armies a surprising amount lol. I make Mannfred a jack of all trades like you, but then we differ. Vlad is all infantry, Isabella Cavalry/Flyers, Red Duke Blood Dragon focus, Kemmler ghosts (like you) and Ghorst is pretty standard necromancer low level stuff. I get my ghoul fix through the bloodlines and generic lord.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,993
    I don’t understand putting two casters in Mannfred’s army. He is an amazing casterand a magic battery, but why place another Death wizard to compete with him over resources?

    Also, you use a lot of Grave Guard with great weapons, but there are better damage dealers to pick from.

    My Mannfred army is usually something like.

    Mannfred
    Wight King
    Grave Guard x8
    Vargulf x2
    Vargeist x8

    Dropping that many Vargeists in a single target is a unit auto-delete. You can go ahead and pounce them on most anti-large units without worry, especially with Mannfred supporting them with spells. As long as you don’t get them badly tied up, it is VC easy mode.
    ò_ó
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377
    Warlocke said:

    I don’t understand putting two casters in Mannfred’s army. He is an amazing casterand a magic battery, but why place another Death wizard to compete with him over resources?

    Also, you use a lot of Grave Guard with great weapons, but there are better damage dealers to pick from.

    My Mannfred army is usually something like.

    Mannfred
    Wight King
    Grave Guard x8
    Vargulf x2
    Vargeist x8

    Dropping that many Vargeists in a single target is a unit auto-delete. You can go ahead and pounce them on most anti-large units without worry, especially with Mannfred supporting them with spells. As long as you don’t get them badly tied up, it is VC easy mode.

    I designated them as "melee focus", or at least I intended to. They're decent heroes in melee, and they can support Mannfred in the air.

    It doesn't really matter which Grave Guard is used, since the GW variant doesn't get anti-large like most GW units. Just extra spice. I can go back and forth. For VC, even their high tier infantry is just a more damaging tarpit. With the flying damage dealers in that army and the cav that can flank, the actual melee infantry composition is mostly just for fun.

    And Vargheists are indeed great; I just put them with Isabella instead.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 377

    I enjoy making thematic armies for all factions love the posts even though we differ in our thematic armies a surprising amount lol. I make Mannfred a jack of all trades like you, but then we differ. Vlad is all infantry, Isabella Cavalry/Flyers, Red Duke Blood Dragon focus, Kemmler ghosts (like you) and Ghorst is pretty standard necromancer low level stuff. I get my ghoul fix through the bloodlines and generic lord.

    I see the draw for an all infantry Vlad. I like to match the lord's mount type with units in the army, so for him, that's infantry. But I just felt that a true aristocrat, as he aspires to be, would field knights. But respect, man. I think thematic armies net you the most fun in the game, and it seems like you agree. I definitely took liberties with Ghorst lol.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,297
    The cool thing about thematic VC army compositions is that every bloodline has it's own preferences and some units are specifically associated with certain bloodlines.
    The Von Carsteins have a strong afinity to the creatures of the night, (being the Dracula faction and all) so you'll find more dire wolves and fellbats in their army than for any other bloodlines (oh and human militia ofc). Also creating Vargheists is exclusive for them, making those the special Von Carstein unit. Crypt Horrors and Blood Knights however are the Blood Dragon and Strigoi "exclusives" and you'd better have a good reasoning for including them in other armies (Hexwraiths seem to be Necrarch themed BTW). Especially the former are difficult as the Strigoi are hated and hunted by the others.
    Speaking of Blood Dragons, they like the more discplined forms of undead, imitating a living army by forming infantry retinues. So skeletons and graveguard are the name of the game, whilst ghouls, zombies and anything animalistic or feral are pretty much out. (not to different from Lahmia, just for different reasons).
    I guess necromancers really like zombies, as they are easy to come by in human society compared to other stuff. I doubt that vampires would yeld authority to them, so vampiric stuff - bloodline units, black coaches (?) and Varghulfs - is rather unlikely in their army. The Lichemaster (Kemmler) has a pretty significant history with the cairns and everything coming from them. So Wight Kings, Cairn Wraiths, Grave Guard and Black Knights are all game.
    Strigoi don't really use zombies I guess, as "fresh" corpses are kind of hard to come by in the presence of ghouls. You could consider them walking provisions though... Speaking of those cannibals, the Stigoi aren't called Ghoul Kings for no reason. You definitely need lots of these crawlers and the speciality crypt horrors in your court. Terrorgheists too are considered an achievement of Ushoran's line, so feel free to use them liberally.
    Finishing up with Lahmia, the Coven Throne isn't in yet but still the Lahmians are infiltrators and don't like disgusting stuff. So if it's high profile or smelly it shouldn't be featured. Zombies, Ghouls and every type of monsters are kind of hard to hide from your husband and his subjects. So the Lahmians like ethereal stuff that can just disappear and skeletons (including wights) that can simply be kept in the family crypt in an inactive state.

    Mortis Engines (forgotten about them before) kind of represent Nagash worship and peak necromantic achievement. So whilst fitting for pretty much everyone (well maybe not Lahmia - hard not to notice - or Strigoi - a bit valuable for such outcasts), they fit Necrachs and Necromancers best imho.

    I hope these assesments help.
  • mulrichmulrich Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 33
    Thanks for these.

    I'm sorry, it must feel like I'm being really pedantic, having commented on three of these in as many days. However, for Heinrich Kemmler's army, there's only 19 units.
    Krell is not available on the campaign map, but is spawned via an ability in combat, so Krell doesn't take up a unit slot until spawned in.
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