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Skaven Runners Are Damn Too Slow

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  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 4,804
    edited April 23
    I don't mind some amount of buff stacking. It gives the player a sense of progression. Since the buffs are generally greater for early game units than they are for late game units, it can also keep units relevant that would otherwise be obsolete. Not true in all cases of course, and some units like Saurus abuse the ever living hell outta their buff stacking, but it's certainly not all bad. Plus, if things get a bit on the easy side, you can always crank the difficulty up. Unless you're ranged buff stacking, then you just win.

    One element of buffstacking that I do want to see go away, is multiple heroes within the same stack conferring their respective passive buffs per hero. No two heroes should double dip with their passive effects. Anything with a cast sure, but as it is right now those are the only things that don't stack up despite requiring direct player interaction and lasting only a short time. It's completely backwards.
    Cvejo said:

    saweendra said:

    Cvejo said:

    saweendra said:

    Cvejo said:

    Cvejo said:

    CA needs to remove buffstacking.

    In all honesty, everything i am getting from buffstacking, if understand your meaning of the term well, is 16 Speed (two Warlock Engineers).

    Take that away and you'll still get 93.
    The base speed of Gutter Runners isn't 93, that's already about twice as fast. That's a ton of buffstacking.
    What do you want to say, exactly?

    You want to limit e.g. max +5% buff per unit for every stat?

    I asked you likewise in the Slayer thread; what do you consider buffstacking?
    i personally would remove the whole buff stack and have units just run on base stats and then focus skill and tech..etc on upkeep,economy , replenishment, diplomacy or any number of things they can add as general camagin mechanics or have extremely limited buffs.


    but yeah +5% to each stat is ok than we won't at least see units loosing their identity

    Like I said, i didn't exploit buffstacking all that much.

    A max to 5% bonus to each stat is boring. It destroys the uniqueness of the game and makes the difference between subfactions literally superficial. Grom's cooking, Eshin buffs, Ikit's workshop and Throt's laboratory; those are the reasons why I consider the game entertaining and worth playing all over again.

    Imagine Ikit granting "+5% Weapon Strength" to Rattling Guns, in comparison to all other factions.

    It would not make the game better, but worse.
    then don't complain when the tables are turned , Ai can buff stack too , it might not be as eficinet but it can than its your turn to git gud because you want your favourite races to get insaine bufs than other races also have fans that want the same.

    its CA own fault to creating a game environment that promote power fantasy over staratgey
    AI's buffing's are pathetic. It cannot match the player, nowhere near in efficiency.
    This is true, but there's a pretty easy way to fix this. Though it does require mods. The AI has a fairly intelligible path to buffing, and rarely needs to put much focus on the blue line like the player does. The problem is how slowly they tend to pick up in steam. CA could fix this easily by lowering the level cap back down to 30 and giving out 2 points per level to lords, but until they do so (if) any mod that sets your lord skill points from 50-60 that also helps out the AI will allow the AI the points they need to at least compete with you.
  • ProcessingProcessing Czech Republic Registered Users Posts: 467

    They don't move at that speed... Every unit has limited max speed due to their animations, I think a unit can move by about additional 30% ish bonus movement speed. Realistically, these gutter runners move about 75-ish speed.

    False. CA's excuse goes the other way. They totally can't make the Brood Horror move slower because of its animations.

    Despite the animations looking absolute jittery because the unit's obviously way too fast.

    Buffstacking needs to be destroyed.
    You are wrong Shiro. Legend had already covered some doomstacks in the past (Doomwheels, Ratling guns) where those units had about 100 speed each, but neither of them moved at that speed.

    I agree that buffstacking should be removed (looking at Grom's chosen Gobbos) but I am pointing out that these runners don't move at that speed.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,944
    Helhound said:

    I don't mind some amount of buff stacking. It gives the player a sense of progression. Since the buffs are generally greater for early game units than they are for late game units, it can also keep units relevant that would otherwise be obsolete. Not true in all cases of course, and some units like Saurus abuse the ever living hell outta their buff stacking, but it's certainly not all bad. Plus, if things get a bit on the easy side, you can always crank the difficulty up. Unless you're ranged buff stacking, then you just win.

    Keeping early game units relevant should be achieved via economy scaling, not by completely warping those units out of proportion. A goblin should only ever be a goblin, not become a height-challenged Chosen like it can happen if you play Grom or Skarsnik. I think unit stats should have a general cap on how much you can improve them.

    And as you say, ranged buffstacking is so obnoxiously powerful, you go for that anyway since the AI is incapable of dealing with it and difficulty doesn't affect ranged units in any meaningful way.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,632
    Quiet, Shiro! The voice of reason will bring the inquisitors....
  • CvejoCvejo Registered Users Posts: 95

    They don't move at that speed... Every unit has limited max speed due to their animations, I think a unit can move by about additional 30% ish bonus movement speed. Realistically, these gutter runners move about 75-ish speed.

    False. CA's excuse goes the other way. They totally can't make the Brood Horror move slower because of its animations.

    Despite the animations looking absolute jittery because the unit's obviously way too fast.

    Buffstacking needs to be destroyed.
    You are wrong Shiro. Legend had already covered some doomstacks in the past (Doomwheels, Ratling guns) where those units had about 100 speed each, but neither of them moved at that speed.

    I agree that buffstacking should be removed (looking at Grom's chosen Gobbos) but I am pointing out that these runners don't move at that speed.
    What is your opinion on buffstacking? What qualifies as that?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,944
    edited April 25
    Cvejo said:

    They don't move at that speed... Every unit has limited max speed due to their animations, I think a unit can move by about additional 30% ish bonus movement speed. Realistically, these gutter runners move about 75-ish speed.

    False. CA's excuse goes the other way. They totally can't make the Brood Horror move slower because of its animations.

    Despite the animations looking absolute jittery because the unit's obviously way too fast.

    Buffstacking needs to be destroyed.
    You are wrong Shiro. Legend had already covered some doomstacks in the past (Doomwheels, Ratling guns) where those units had about 100 speed each, but neither of them moved at that speed.

    I agree that buffstacking should be removed (looking at Grom's chosen Gobbos) but I am pointing out that these runners don't move at that speed.
    What is your opinion on buffstacking? What qualifies as that?
    Any buff that's unlocked for something always applies in full. So buffs from skills, items, research and traits can all add up infinitely with only a few exceptions like wardsave (which is still only capped at a ridiculously high 90%). Because CA added so many small buffs, they all add up eventually to ludicrous numbers.

    So it's the worst of two worlds.

    1.The small buffs don't feel meaningful in on themselves if you get them and yet

    2.They add up to sometimes very high numbers which can warp units out of proportion or break mechanics

    What CA should do is reduce the numbers of buffs radically but make what few you can get more meaningful. Or if they keep the numbers of buffs, add diminishing returns so that consecutive buffs are not applied in full all the time.
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