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Most wanted 190 factions ranked

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  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    edited May 2021
    I checked the map in 190 there is Zhang Chao as a faction leader which is Zhang Miao's brother and I do not understand what he would bring in terms of playstyle.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085
    edited May 2021
    Vin362 said:

    I checked the map in 190 there is Zhang Chao as a faction leader which is Zhang Miao's brother and I do not understand what he would bring in terms of playstyle.

    Haven't thought of a playstyle for him but he does add historical accuracy and flavour to the game as he played a big part of the coalition against Dong Zhuo when he was Administrator of Chenliu.

    As far as I'm concerned, I think it would be important for CA to at least develop unique designs for the warlords involved in the coalition. It will also help to fleshed out the earlier start dates esp 182 which is currently full of boring generic faction leader faces..
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    edited May 2021
    Giving every member of the coalition a unique model is a little too much to ask as a number of them did very little after the coalition was disbanded, I also remember reading this "you engage in diplomacy with them they must be made unique!" is not reasonable.
    Post edited by Vin362 on
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085
    Its not necessary to add every single warlord but it would make the game much better in terms of flavour, immersion and character if more can be added. I think it is something you really can't begrudge the fans as it has been an area that's identified as lacking by many especially in the 182 start.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,299
    edited May 2021
    kaihoo said:

    The chances of Zhang Miao, Liu Yu, Han Fu and Zhang Yang getting in the game are zero.

    I'll believe that when I hear it from the CA not random guy from the forums. And Liu Yu, a nobody? Han Fu? All I can say is you need to revise your 3K history again. Hint, it did not start from the year 190.. It was earlier.
    Both are completely irrelevant in RoTK and that's the source material for the game. This isn't even worthy of debate. Learn more.

    Cai Mao was incredibly important in the internal machinations of Liu Biao's faction. Don't be so ignorant.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,704

    Both are completely irrelevant in RoTK and that's the source material for the game. This isn't even worthy of debate. Learn more.

    Cai Mao was incredibly important in the internal machinations of Liu Biao's faction. Don't be so ignorant.

    Exactly! Not to mention how unrealistic and absurd it is to demand every faction leader get unique art because CA is constrained by something called an art budget meaning they just can't suddenly pull out 50 characters from thin air because they "MUST."

  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 981

    kaihoo said:

    The chances of Zhang Miao, Liu Yu, Han Fu and Zhang Yang getting in the game are zero.

    I'll believe that when I hear it from the CA not random guy from the forums. And Liu Yu, a nobody? Han Fu? All I can say is you need to revise your 3K history again. Hint, it did not start from the year 190.. It was earlier.
    Both are completely irrelevant in RoTK and that's the source material for the game. This isn't even worthy of debate. Learn more.

    Cai Mao was incredibly important in the internal machinations of Liu Biao's faction. Don't be so ignorant.
    I agree with you on a lot of the lord even han fu (his chance went when he was not added in guan du) however at this point in time I disagree with you on Liu Yu .

    the northern tribes is the most relivent time to add a Liu Yu faction or Him as a unique .he was known for not being raided by the northern tribes due to them respecting his benevolent rule . Much like gongsun zan who could also potentially see his last change of any changes or additional units in a northern expansion . His play style writes itself diplomacy with non hanic factions and/or benevolence .

    If he’s not added in northern exspansion then yes at that point the relevancy time has past much like if in chi bi (or yuan in fight or whatever comes next if it’s before 208) if cai mao or huang zu are not added or unique by then their relevant time period has gone too . In terms of unique start position only or someone like Wang Lang (his time has already passed ) can only really offer a unique start at this point outside of new cultures

    We also don’t know if we are getting any other culture packs . Han Sui makes sense for a western or qiang but also would be if we get tong gate I feel , zhang lu makes sense if they make a religious pack (him , ze Rong and the white wave bandits considering how they were more religious / hybrid factions you can prob get away with them having units and buildings of hanic , bandit or turbans depending on who we are talking about ) and gongsun du the other big pick would make more sense with korea so CAs roadmap is also another factor . Like I feel Liu zhang may of been added earlier as they may not go to a campaign where he’s fighting Liu bei .

    We won’t know for sure till northern has been done and we hear what’s next . If they skip tong gate for exsample and no qiang pack exspect han sui in either northern expansion or chi bi
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 797

    You have to understand that people who are inconsequential in RoTK are not going to be playable.

    Strange, I don't recall Liu Chong being mentioned in ROTK.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085


    Both are completely irrelevant in RoTK and that's the source material for the game. This isn't even worthy of debate. Learn more.

    And you're completely wrong about that. Both were at the height of their powers during the Mandate of Heaven period and should naturally be included and recognized as such. Liu Yu and Han Fu were the ruling guys in the Northern Plains during the 182 to the 190s far from being as you described especially in the first 2 campaign starts.

    It is hypocritical to assume them irrelevant when even more minor characters such as Liu Chong, Zhang Yan, Liu Yao, Tao Qian and Kong Ming are featured with unique designs and playable as factions. And since "relevance" is such an important issue for you, I'd challenge you to find source material in ROTK relating to Zheng Jiang.


    Cai Mao was incredibly important in the internal machinations of Liu Biao's faction. Don't be so ignorant.

    He was important as a plot device. Not as faction leader ****.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085
    edited May 2021


    Exactly! Not to mention how unrealistic and absurd it is to demand every faction leader get unique art because CA is constrained by something called an art budget meaning they just can't suddenly pull out 50 characters from thin air because they "MUST."

    Fortunately, you're not the one who's setting the standards otherwise TW3K would have been absolutely crap.
    Post edited by kaihoo on
  • Skarsnik_De_EmperorSkarsnik_De_Emperor Registered Users Posts: 1,832

    At first impression and according to my limited knowledge on characters in the period, I am pretty okay, if not happy, with your first 5 selections.

    Your No.6 Cai Mao
    Cai Mao is a hard one for me. His family background and story is very interesting but I am afraid CA cannot make justice on how to make it (family impact on the game) stand-out. At most, I think they can only make him a better character for navy - which is very sad. So I would rather not have him playable if that is the case because it will be quite boring, if not disappointing.

    I can write up some gameplay style those stuff to help but this is a low priority for me atm.

    Your No.7 Huang Zu
    Be honest, I do not understand why he is interesting. For me, 'killed Sun Jian' cannot really make him interesting enough for me to play him. Maybe there is something I dun know yet.


    Cai Mao can easily be used for Liu cong tbh . As Liu cong got the backing of the cai clan so including a unique unit with the cai clan . Can you do much with him? Idk I mean they could make embarking easier for him , make it so he has better reandforcment range if a navel fight or of course make it so he has a spy if people are married into another persons family . Like Liu biao has lady cai his sister as Liu biaos wife . She could act as a spy with unique spy activities she could do in the faction as she had quite a bit of power in Liu biaos faction if I recall . So he starts with her as a spy in Liu biaos faction and it’s made harder to detect maybe . So it could be benefitual to have your married sibling go to an faction to use them to cause trouble and chaos or get you better deals and such . I mean there not really a faction that makes use of an more advance spy system so Cai Mao could be the first

    Huang zu is a little harder tbh . I think people find him interesting is he was probably one of the reasons Liu biao never really succeeded. Due to huang zu he always had wu at war with him and well him being dead in the center with enemies everywhere never really allowed him to grow . Huang zu also had gan Ning with him who was the one who killed ling Cao and he was able to resist the wu invasion in 203. Also he was a road block for sun ces exspansion too so I feel he’s done more than some warlords get credit for but the hard part for huang zu is what do you actually give him as a mechanic .
    I dun think Liu Cong is an interesting character be honest. He was only an unlucky kid.

    On Huang Zu, I dun care who get credit for this or that in history. Many warlords were holding their place simply the big ones had no time to focus them. Nothing special. So it doesn't change my opinion that he is boring to play with.
  • Maidros98Maidros98 Registered Users Posts: 344



    I dun think Liu Cong is an interesting character be honest. He was only an unlucky kid.

    On Huang Zu, I dun care who gets credit for this or that in history. Many warlords were holding their place simply the big ones had no time to focus them. Nothing special. So it doesn't change my opinion that he is boring to play with.

    Hopefully, the Chibi DLC starts from the events leading up to it (i.e Liu Bei going to Liu Biao) Just like what they did with Guandu. That way we'd get a Liu Biao rework instead of Liu Cong Faction (Who surrendered immediately after inheritance). The only reason people want Huang Zu is that he killed Sun Jian. I agree that he is boring. The best thing would be to just give him a unique character treatment. I think Liu Yao, Wang Lang, and even Hua Xin are better choices than Huang Zu.
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    I don't think Liu Biao will get a rework as he already received one when he was given governance
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • E_L_2E_L_2 Registered Users Posts: 173
    Vin362 said:

    I don't think Liu Biao will get a rework as he already received one when he was given governance

    Perhaps he can just be given a few new unique characters - I think that would be suitable with a Chibi DLC and make the faction feel "newer".
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    edited May 2021
    Cai Mao and Huang Zu do not necessarily need to be playable so they are probably the most likely candidates instead of his sons as I feel a possible Chibi chapter pack would focus more on Liu Bei and Sun Quan as Cao Cao got a few with the Fates Divided.

    Also there is one thing they could give to Liu Biao now that I think about it, is to have vassals offer to confederate with him something akin to Warhammer 2 where the elector counts will offer confederation with the player when they reach max fealty, I would like to believe this is something that can be integrated into governance without causing any problems.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,704
    kaihoo said:

    Fortunately, you're not the one who's setting the standards otherwise TW3K would have been absolutely crap.

    If I was to set the standards for this game, then Cao Hong, Cao Chun, Gao Lan and a bunch more important characters would have unique art not to mention the map wouldn't be in the mess that it is right now. The problem is that I don't get to set the standards for this game, and we all have to live with CA's standards which is what we have right now.

  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 981
    edited May 2021
    I still think we need a Liu cong or Liu Qi even if not a faction mainly because of Liu biaos scripted death . In 200 ad you don’t really get an awful lot of time with Liu biao (maybe 50 turns?) so having an heir unique would be good for Liu biao

    I know Liu cong just surrendered but this is the beauty of a sandbox game . Like people reaching the top as someone like Kong Rong people like Liu cong had he tried to resist Cao cao for exsample could be a thing

    This is though still assuming that 208 or 207 is next and not 205 . For all we know we may have yuan tan , xi and shang all playable with a similar mechanic of trying to control the northern plains
  • Maidros98Maidros98 Registered Users Posts: 344

    I still think we need a Liu Cong or Liu Qi even if not a faction mainly because of Liu Biao's scripted death. In 200 ad you don’t really get an awful lot of time with Liu Biao (maybe 50 turns?) so having an heir unique would be good for Liu Biao

    I know Liu Cong just surrendered but this is the beauty of a sandbox game. Like people reaching the top as someone like Kong Rong people like Liu Cong had he tried to resist Cao cao, for example, could be a thing

    This is though still assuming that 208 or 207 is next and not 205. For all, we know we may have yuan tan, xi and Shang all playable with a similar mechanic of trying to control the northern plains

    Yes, it would be great if the playable factions family get the unique character treatment. I can understand if people like Tao Shang and Tao Ying don't become unique as they were not important at all but Liu Cong/Qi or Yuan Yao/Anyang or even Ma Tie are Ok. It would add so much flavor to the campaign if your heir isn't some generic. What's worst is that most of them don't even have a unique background. People keep saying only the important historical characters should be added, but we should also consider which characters would make the game more enjoyable. I always marry Lay Mi to Tao Shang to make her my heir just to have a unique in there (and she's a commander so she isn't a bad choice).

    Still, while I think a very enjoyable campaign could be built around Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang, I don't think Liu Cong and Liu Qi are that interesting for playable factions. Mainly because they didn't really participate in any conflicts and are not very interesting characters. I want them as unique though.

    While I don't think the DLC after the northern expansion will be 205, I'd love it if CA returns to the date later and added a DLC for it.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085
    Maidros98 said:


    While I don't think the DLC after the northern expansion will be 205, I'd love it if CA returns to the date later and added a DLC for it.

    I frankly shudder at the thought of a "northern expansion" when so much of the base game and DLCs are still so lacking...

    Going beyond the basic historical storyline when the central narrative is still underdeveloped in so many ways does not sound like a wise idea to me....
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 981
    Maidros98 said:

    I still think we need a Liu Cong or Liu Qi even if not a faction mainly because of Liu Biao's scripted death. In 200 ad you don’t really get an awful lot of time with Liu Biao (maybe 50 turns?) so having an heir unique would be good for Liu Biao

    I know Liu Cong just surrendered but this is the beauty of a sandbox game. Like people reaching the top as someone like Kong Rong people like Liu Cong had he tried to resist Cao cao, for example, could be a thing

    This is though still assuming that 208 or 207 is next and not 205. For all, we know we may have yuan tan, xi and Shang all playable with a similar mechanic of trying to control the northern plains

    Yes, it would be great if the playable factions family get the unique character treatment. I can understand if people like Tao Shang and Tao Ying don't become unique as they were not important at all but Liu Cong/Qi or Yuan Yao/Anyang or even Ma Tie are Ok. It would add so much flavor to the campaign if your heir isn't some generic. What's worst is that most of them don't even have a unique background. People keep saying only the important historical characters should be added, but we should also consider which characters would make the game more enjoyable. I always marry Lay Mi to Tao Shang to make her my heir just to have a unique in there (and she's a commander so she isn't a bad choice).

    Still, while I think a very enjoyable campaign could be built around Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang, I don't think Liu Cong and Liu Qi are that interesting for playable factions. Mainly because they didn't really participate in any conflicts and are not very interesting characters. I want them as unique though.

    While I don't think the DLC after the northern expansion will be 205, I'd love it if CA returns to the date later and added a DLC for it.
    I completely agree . Yuan Anyang and Yao also have the perk of working for wu after the defeat of Liu Xun (if there’s no Lian shi you could even marry yuan Anyang to sun quan as she was a concubine to him)

    Shi hui is maybe another good one (the one who opposed wu )

    But like when people replay as Cao cao or yuan Shao I imagine being able to play as a unique heir (cao pi in Cao cao case or yuan tan/Shang in yuan shaos Case)makes it more interesting kind of like how if sun ce dies you got sun Ren or sun quan to fall back on
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,704
    kaihoo said:

    I frankly shudder at the thought of a "northern expansion" when so much of the base game and DLCs are still so lacking...

    Going beyond the basic historical storyline when the central narrative is still underdeveloped in so many ways does not sound like a wise idea to me....

    Will you be buying it though? Because I'm sure that your payment is already expected as "MUST!"

  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,737
    edited May 2021
    Overall as far as the Han goes and as a non-3K "connaisseur" my "top 5 most wanted factions" are (in no particular order)

    - Liu Yu
    - Ze Rong (even if he would probably half Bandit / half Han) nvm Zhang Lu
    - Gongsun Du
    - Han Sui

    For the final one I was actually wondering on whether or not CA could actually make Zhu Dan playable (as another more "militaristic" governor poised to strike at Dong Zhuo). But I believe his initial position on the map would be awkward to add for CA (at least as of right now) and I understand he may not be someone the Romance fans would like to see since he would become irrelevant real fast...

    So if not him I'd go for Huang Zu I guess.
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,299
    Rewan said:

    Overall as far as the Han goes and as a non-3K "connaisseur" my "top 5 most wanted factions" are (in no particular order)

    - Liu Yu
    - Ze Rong (even if he would probably half Bandit / half Han) nvm Zhang Lu
    - Gongsun Du
    - Han Sui

    For the final one I was actually wondering on whether or not CA could actually make Zhu Dan playable (as another more "militaristic" governor poised to strike at Dong Zhuo). But I believe his initial position on the map would be awkward to add for CA (at least as of right now) and I understand he may not be someone the Romance fans would like to see since he would become irrelevant real fast...

    So if not him I'd go for Huang Zu I guess.

    Why Liu Yu? He's in a dull position and is an irrelevant character. Don't you think it would needlessly complicate rhe Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan early game challenge too?
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,704
    Liu Yu was more of a pacifist who was unwilling to fight which I think is reflected in the game in a very good manner. Historically GongSun Zan destroyed Liu Yu with a mere handful of troops simply because Liu Yu was unwilling to fight, and in the story Liu Yu was very much irrelevant as GongSun Zan naturally took over his lands early on very easily.

    Gameplay wise Liu Yu would also bring nothing to the table except serve as food for GongSun Zan and the WuHuan tribes because Liu Yu was willing to fight even to defend his own lands. Unless you want to play "total peace three kingdoms" Liu Yu has no major role to play in a war game. Liu Yu also died so early that he doesn't even show up in the 194 start, meaning that he brings in much less value to the game compared to longer lasting factions such as Gao Gan, Han Sui, Huang Zu, Zhang Lu and the like.

  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,737
    edited May 2021
    Why Liu Yu? He's in a dull position and is an irrelevant character



    Like I understand you people don't find any interest in him but do you really need to try convincing other people they are "somehow wrong" in wanting faction X or Y to be playable ?

    Peacemongers in the North is something I believe we're missing. So yeah, I'd like Liu Yu to be playable.
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,299
    Rewan said:

    Why Liu Yu? He's in a dull position and is an irrelevant character



    Like I understand you people don't find any interest in him but do you really need to try convincing other people they are "somehow wrong" in wanting faction X or Y to be playable ?

    Peacemongers in the North is something I believe we're missing. So yeah, I'd like Liu Yu to be playable.
    I'm not saying he must absolutely not be playable I just think other factions are more deserving of it. And I think if he was fleshed out he would needlessly bog down and complicate the Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan initial fights in the north.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,737
    And I think if he was fleshed out he would needlessly bog down and complicate the Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan initial fights in the north.


    No because as far as the AI is concerned he would still be a "minor".
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,085



    Why Liu Yu? He's in a dull position and is an irrelevant character. Don't you think it would needlessly complicate rhe Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan early game challenge too?

    As opposed to Zheng Jiang then...
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,299
    kaihoo said:



    Why Liu Yu? He's in a dull position and is an irrelevant character. Don't you think it would needlessly complicate rhe Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan early game challenge too?

    As opposed to Zheng Jiang then...
    Zheng Jian is a bandit and a woman, which makes her different from most factions.
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 797
    I don't think there is any debate that Han Sui, Zhang Lu and Gongsun Du are the most relevant three remaining 190 factions in terms of potential start dates and what they can offer.

    But the point is if we get more than those three (Which we may or may not), then which one would you chose?

    Wouldn't Liu Yu be a decent choice as a fourth option? In my mind Liu Yu, Ze Rong, Liu Yao or Wang Lang would be all fine options for the number four spot. But Han Sui, Zhang Lu and Gongsun Du should absolutely be added as playable factions IMO.
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