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Who do you really want as a Preorder bonus?

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Comments

  • DrazhoaththeAshenDrazhoaththeAshen Registered Users Posts: 279

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    You shall ride eternal, blazing and bronze.

    Keep calm and praise Hashut
    Beautiful artwork by Matt Hancox
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,771
    I actually think you could probably reuse the flamer skeleton for the fireborn.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • MODIDDLY1MODIDDLY1 Registered Users Posts: 538
    saweendra said:

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    In there is lamasu, great taurs, ..etc. yeah its going to be CP. No matter what.

    These can sell dlc on their own
    Oh damn that Kolossus looks awesome.

    What the pre-order comes down to, is "Could this race be sold for 20 dollars instead of 10 and have lots of people want to buy it?"

    Smaller races that would reuse assets and be less likely for people to want to shell out 20 dollars for a more minor race like Hobgoblins, Kurgans, and even Nagash probably not. A race like Chaos Dwarves which, even with a 20 campaign pack, I still don't think they will get the majority of their constructs, easily could be.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,808
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    saweendra said:

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    In there is lamasu, great taurs, ..etc. yeah its going to be CP. No matter what.

    These can sell dlc on their own
    Oh damn that Kolossus looks awesome.

    What the pre-order comes down to, is "Could this race be sold for 20 dollars instead of 10 and have lots of people want to buy it?"

    Smaller races that would reuse assets and be less likely for people to want to shell out 20 dollars for a more minor race like Hobgoblins, Kurgans, and even Nagash probably not. A race like Chaos Dwarves which, even with a 20 campaign pack, I still don't think they will get the majority of there constructs, easily could be.
    In 20 dollar pack they are going to get itm look at tomb kings before people were speculate wether or not they get x. They got all of it.

    CA has leveled up since than. Question is who comes first OK or CD. As CP.


    And all i got to say Ok should be the first CP.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • DrazhoaththeAshenDrazhoaththeAshen Registered Users Posts: 279
    edited May 7
    saweendra said:

    MODIDDLY1 said:

    saweendra said:

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    In there is lamasu, great taurs, ..etc. yeah its going to be CP. No matter what.

    These can sell dlc on their own
    Oh damn that Kolossus looks awesome.

    What the pre-order comes down to, is "Could this race be sold for 20 dollars instead of 10 and have lots of people want to buy it?"

    Smaller races that would reuse assets and be less likely for people to want to shell out 20 dollars for a more minor race like Hobgoblins, Kurgans, and even Nagash probably not. A race like Chaos Dwarves which, even with a 20 campaign pack, I still don't think they will get the majority of there constructs, easily could be.
    In 20 dollar pack they are going to get itm look at tomb kings before people were speculate wether or not they get x. They got all of it.

    CA has leveled up since than. Question is who comes first OK or CD. As CP.


    And all i got to say Ok should be the first CP.
    Might be a bit surprising coming from me, but I am okay with that. As long as Chaos Dwarfs don't have to wait until 2023. I've been pretty consistent in saying that the world doesn't revolve around me, and there are OK fans who have been waiting as long to be included. The antagonism with Cathay just makes sense, and they really are a fantastic race. Should Ogre Kingdoms be first, I will be really happy for the OK fans here and elsewhere.

    Keep calm and praise Hashut
    Beautiful artwork by Matt Hancox
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 2,666
    saweendra said:

    MODIDDLY1 said:

    saweendra said:

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    In there is lamasu, great taurs, ..etc. yeah its going to be CP. No matter what.

    These can sell dlc on their own
    Oh damn that Kolossus looks awesome.

    What the pre-order comes down to, is "Could this race be sold for 20 dollars instead of 10 and have lots of people want to buy it?"

    Smaller races that would reuse assets and be less likely for people to want to shell out 20 dollars for a more minor race like Hobgoblins, Kurgans, and even Nagash probably not. A race like Chaos Dwarves which, even with a 20 campaign pack, I still don't think they will get the majority of there constructs, easily could be.
    In 20 dollar pack they are going to get itm look at tomb kings before people were speculate wether or not they get x. They got all of it.

    CA has leveled up since than. Question is who comes first OK or CD. As CP.


    And all i got to say Ok should be the first CP.
    I really want Chaos Dwarfs to be the first CP, but I'm fine if Ogres get it. I think they're on pretty even footing (though I guess Ogres have the Cathay rivalry), and I'm sure I'll enjoy Ogres as much as I enjoy every other race in game.

    But damn I want my hellfire choo-choo.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 765

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    I haven't seen any of the Daemon content yet so have no way of knowing (and neither do you).

    Iron Daemon maybe not, Magma Cannon definitely, Dreadquake might it depends how close they adhere to the model.

    I suppose there is always a 3rd possibility where they do a preorder with 2 LLs and the reskins + a couple of centrepiece units, then down the line do a lord pack with Dwarfs to give the remaining units they need.
    Pre-Covid Forum Account: Orklads
    Discord/Steam Name: Glorious Feeder
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 11,284

    Wow, all my comments came in at once after being removed, sorry guys.

    Anyway, let's break down all the units I listed (I'll not get into Bull Centaurs or the regular Dawi Zharr, as I'm not confident enough in distinguishing them from existing stuff):

    K'Daii:


    Fireborn


    Destroyer

    Do they look like any DoC daemons to you?


    Iron Daemon:






    Do these two really look alike?


    Dreadquake Mortar:





    Are these two similar at all?


    Magma Cannon:





    Could these two really use the same model?


    Kolossus:




    So unique even you acknowledged it should get it's own model.


    But the most important point is that if you do these units dirty, then there's not even any point in making Chaos Dwarfs- it would be like half-assing the Tomb King's constructs, and it's not worth it to force them into being a pre-order.
    I haven't seen any of the Daemon content yet so have no way of knowing (and neither do you).

    Iron Daemon maybe not, Magma Cannon definitely, Dreadquake might it depends how close they adhere to the model.

    I suppose there is always a 3rd possibility where they do a preorder with 2 LLs and the reskins + a couple of centrepiece units, then down the line do a lord pack with Dwarfs to give the remaining units they need.
    You are an insult to the proud Dawi Zharr. Your name goes in the not book of grudges.

  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 4,426
    Dogs of War or Legions of Nagash.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 3,797
    I've read a bit, and I think some people are consufing new rigs, new models and new textures. All but the DoW artillery units can use already existing rigs. What they need, however, is remodels and new animations (for exemple, Orcs using crossbows). This is much cheaper than having to create an entirely new skeletons, and animating it from scratch. DoW really doesn't requires that much, I did a break-up of it, and it can scrap by with 2 new rigs, and not the hardest ones, as artillery requires the least animations !

    Another point that cannot be understated is that DoW roster size shouldn't be compared to other races roster size, but to other rosters size + RoRs, because those are the same for DoW. For exemple, Norsca might have 20 something units, but they also have 5 RoRs. So the eqivalent for DoW is 25 units.
    I believe in Slaanesh supremacy
  • 445Aas445Aas Registered Users Posts: 169


    Might be a bit surprising coming from me, but I am okay with that. As long as Chaos Dwarfs don't have to wait until 2023. I've been pretty consistent in saying that the world doesn't revolve around me, and there are OK fans who have been waiting as long to be included. The antagonism with Cathay just makes sense, and they really are a fantastic race. Should Ogre Kingdoms be first, I will be really happy for the OK fans here and elsewhere.

    I am a fan of ogre kingdoms and chaos dwarfs. I was surprised that neither of them are a core race. But i am happy we got other stuff (mono gods, cathay) because that means we will get even more stuff in the end. I am convinced we will get the obviously missing races anyway. The same way i was happy (as a skaven fan) when Snikch droped with additional skryre gear because i thought we will never get him or poision wind mortars, even though i was hoping for molder stuff which was so obviously missing and now we have both. Lets hope ogre kingdoms and chaos dwarf dlc will be of high quality.
  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,801
    edited May 7
    I like this forum. Give your opinion, based on nothing but wishes, and other people will tell you that is impossible, because their own wishes tell them : it would be a waste to do CD as preorder, they will be a race pack !

    So I fully agree with you @DaBoyzAreBackInTown !

    CD could have the potential to be the preorder race. Because :

    1/ CA could have a bigger budget. So a better pack than before.
    2/ even as a "cheap" preorder, they could add DLC for DLC and still make lot of money.
    3/ some of their units are reskin. More than some : at least all their lords, heroes and base units. How can you say a CD is vastly different from a normal dwarf ? They have 2 arms, 2 legs, a beard and a heavy armor, and use the same animations. The same for the GS and probably hobgobbos and some of their artillery. Yes, they have unique units that needs a huge work. But they could get a few in at launch and the rest in another DLC.
    4/ we dont know CA goals and economy. Would it be better to sell a CD Race pack at 20€? Or make them the preorder and put a DLC later at 10€ ? I dunno. Such thing is impossible to tell at our level. Preorder could have a bigger impact on WH3 sales, or not at all, I dunno.

    So. To be clear. I would also think CD would be better as a huge awesome race pack. I like them and want the best and the more of them. Still. THAT is a possibility. Even if you do not like it.
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 2,666
    Pr4vda said:

    I like this forum. Give your opinion, based on nothing but wishes, and other people will tell you that is impossible, because their own wishes tell them : it would be a waste to do CD as preorder, they will be a race pack !

    So I fully agree with you @DaBoyzAreBackInTown !

    CD could have the potential to be the preorder race. Because :

    1/ CA could have a bigger budget. So a better pack than before.
    2/ even as a "cheap" preorder, they could add DLC for DLC and still make lot of money.
    3/ some of their units are reskin. More than some : at least all their lords, heroes and base units. How can you say a CD is vastly different from a normal dwarf ? They have 2 arms, 2 legs, a beard and a heavy armor, and use the same animations. The same for the GS and probably hobgobbos and some of their artillery. Yes, they have unique units that needs a huge work. But they could get a few in at launch and the rest in another DLC.
    4/ we dont know CA goals and economy. Would it be better to sell a CD Race pack at 20€? Or make them the preorder and put a DLC later at 10€ ? I dunno. Such thing is impossible to tell at our level. Preorder could have a bigger impact on WH3 sales, or not at all, I dunno.

    So. To be clear. I would also think CD would be better as a huge awesome race pack. I like them and want the best and the more of them. Still. THAT is a possibility. Even if you do not like it.

    I believe the Chaos Dwarfs would be wasted as a pre-order race because:

    1. There is no reason to believe CA would have a bigger pre-order budget.
    2. DLC for DLC does not excuse a **** base DLC.
    3. Sure their infantry could be reskinned, but their best units can't, and again DLC for DLC does not excuse them launching without half their coolest toys.
    4. You're right, we don't know CA's goals and economy. But we do know that Tomb Kings (for example) were a campaign pack (which let them get most/all of their cool toys) while Norsca was a cheap pre-order. So if we just loo at the previous race/campaign packs, Chaos Dwarfs fall easily into the campaign pack category, while other minor races like Legion of Nagash or (at a push) Dogs of War can be done on a race pack budget without needing a LP to fix them.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • DrazhoaththeAshenDrazhoaththeAshen Registered Users Posts: 279
    edited May 7
    Pr4vda said:

    I like this forum. Give your opinion, based on nothing but wishes, and other people will tell you that is impossible, because their own wishes tell them : it would be a waste to do CD as preorder, they will be a race pack !

    So I fully agree with you @DaBoyzAreBackInTown !

    CD could have the potential to be the preorder race. Because :

    1/ CA could have a bigger budget. So a better pack than before.
    2/ even as a "cheap" preorder, they could add DLC for DLC and still make lot of money.
    3/ some of their units are reskin. More than some : at least all their lords, heroes and base units. How can you say a CD is vastly different from a normal dwarf ? They have 2 arms, 2 legs, a beard and a heavy armor, and use the same animations. The same for the GS and probably hobgobbos and some of their artillery. Yes, they have unique units that needs a huge work. But they could get a few in at launch and the rest in another DLC.
    4/ we dont know CA goals and economy. Would it be better to sell a CD Race pack at 20€? Or make them the preorder and put a DLC later at 10€ ? I dunno. Such thing is impossible to tell at our level. Preorder could have a bigger impact on WH3 sales, or not at all, I dunno.

    So. To be clear. I would also think CD would be better as a huge awesome race pack. I like them and want the best and the more of them. Still. THAT is a possibility. Even if you do not like it.

    I can't speak for others, but I am pooh-poohing his stance because I don't want for that to be the case. Now, I also believe that it doesn't make financial sense to make them a pre-order, but I have been very up front that my opposition to their being the pre-order is just that.

    Now, as for the reasons you have outlined why they COULD be the pre-order, we have some glaring issues:
    1. A bigger budget is grand, but this is a business. The reality of our world is that production isn't just dictated by resources available but also potential profits. The budget would only be increased with an expectation of greater return. You're acting as if their having a bigger budget is going to lead to some sort of corporate altruism...
    2. Would a cheap preorder accompanied by a DLC make as much money as a Campaign Pack also with a DLC? We both know the answer to that. I would dare say that a Campaign Pack alone that is well done could well outpace even a pre-order accompanied by separate later DLC.
    3. There are copious comments on this and other threads demonstrating that the idea of reskinning is nonsense. In your effort to tie the Chaos Dwarfs to the base Dawi, you tied both to just about any humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, a beard, and heavy armor described an awful lot in the warhammer setting. Perhaps we should just have a universal humanoid template. Reductio ad absurdum, yes. But I think it is a decently demonstrative case. And let's not forget, that the Chaos Dwarfs have a hefty roster even independent of those units that COULD be reskins. I won't really address additional DLC as an argument because I don't have the patience right now to even work through that myself. If it were icing on the cake, that's one thing. But as a means of filling gaps that should have been filled on release, no way. It never ceases to baffle me how people can be so okay with paying more for less.
    4. Fair. No, we don't know those things. But we can also utilize a dash of wisdom and a pinch of reason. The calculation is a fairly simple one: Is the monetary benefit of Chaos Dwarfs as a pre-order, being the sum of increased base game sales and a smattering of post pre-order purchases, greater than or equal to that of Chaos Dwarfs as a separate campaign pack. The big question mark in that is how much will Chaos Dwarfs drive up base game sales. You have a different answer to that calculation than I do, hence the impasse.
    Again, I make no pretense of my opposition to the very idea of Chaos Dwarfs being a preorder being because I "don't like it." To share something depressing, and maybe a bit revealing of why I constantly appear in these threads fighting this fight like Iamad man: In my heart of hearts I believe that they will be the preorder. It is why I get so 'triggered' when these conversations come up. I think CA is well aware that there are lots of people upset that Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms are not cores, or who were only here for those two races, and they need a way to keep them in the game. But sometimes the simplest solution (CD or OK as preorder) is the wrong one. I think the long game of releasing them later down the line as a full campaign pack is a smarter one in just about every way. I just don't trust them to make the right decision.

    And, just so its out there, I could be completely wrong. Maybe they won't be the preorder. Maybe they will be and will be absolutely fantastic. I'm no fortune teller. I've been wrong a billion times before in my life, and will probably be wrong a billion times more. I'm just fighting for what I would like to see, and the most likely means I think we will see that is a full campaign pack.

    Keep calm and praise Hashut
    Beautiful artwork by Matt Hancox
  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,801
    Well, thanks you two for your posts. Clear and with great arguments.

    And sadly we will only know the answer when CA reveals the preorder. Who takes imo too much time. It has been ... more than 3 months now. And probably more !

    I really dont understand CA policy :D
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,010
    Chaos Dwarfs got boned in actual tabletop too, didn't even get a real army book for decades.

    Their being a throwaway pre-order bonus would fit the pattern.
  • DrazhoaththeAshenDrazhoaththeAshen Registered Users Posts: 279
    Nitros14 said:

    Chaos Dwarfs got boned in actual tabletop too, didn't even get a real army book for decades.

    Their being a throwaway pre-order bonus would fit the pattern.

    I said that last night (about being boned in the tabletop, that is) and people acted as if I was being ridiculous.

    As I said above, your second statement is exactly why I am so high strung about this. Once bitten twice shy.

    Keep calm and praise Hashut
    Beautiful artwork by Matt Hancox
  • MODIDDLY1MODIDDLY1 Registered Users Posts: 538

    Nitros14 said:

    Chaos Dwarfs got boned in actual tabletop too, didn't even get a real army book for decades.

    Their being a throwaway pre-order bonus would fit the pattern.

    I said that last night (about being boned in the tabletop, that is) and people acted as if I was being ridiculous.

    As I said above, your second statement is exactly why I am so high strung about this. Once bitten twice shy.
    I just hope CA keeps their promise of "We want to make sure all factions are well done and fleshed out, because every races is someone's favorite"
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 2,887
    edited May 7
    Maelas said:

    I've read a bit, and I think some people are consufing new rigs, new models and new textures. All but the DoW artillery units can use already existing rigs. What they need, however, is remodels and new animations (for exemple, Orcs using crossbows). This is much cheaper than having to create an entirely new skeletons, and animating it from scratch. DoW really doesn't requires that much, I did a break-up of it, and it can scrap by with 2 new rigs, and not the hardest ones, as artillery requires the least animations !

    Another point that cannot be understated is that DoW roster size shouldn't be compared to other races roster size, but to other rosters size + RoRs, because those are the same for DoW. For exemple, Norsca might have 20 something units, but they also have 5 RoRs. So the eqivalent for DoW is 25 units.

    This all the way.

    The only truly new unit that requires work put in are the Paymaster, Galloping Cannons, and Birdmen of Catrazz, Birdmen will be particularly easy to pull off (compared to, say, Norsca's Fimir and Mammoths).


    Literally everything else about DoW are easily recycled scraps from existing content. Their animations won't be different because CA recycle animations a ton, and a few tiny change in clothes isn't going to warrant wasting a campaign pack on them, that's just Silverin Guard helmet-tier of change, lol.



    I haven't seen any of the Daemon content yet so have no way of knowing (and neither do you).

    Iron Daemon maybe not, Magma Cannon definitely, Dreadquake might it depends how close they adhere to the model.

    I suppose there is always a 3rd possibility where they do a preorder with 2 LLs and the reskins + a couple of centrepiece units, then down the line do a lord pack with Dwarfs to give the remaining units they need.

    Let's just say CA really will do something as stupid as half-assing the chaos dwarfs with a shoe-string budget and end up **** every single fan of CD.


    Where does that leave the minor factions that literally don't have the content and depth that actually warrants a campaign pack. Why people disagree with you is two-fold.


    1) You can't build a Bugatti with the budget of a wooden kub kar


    2) How the hell are you going to justify building a wooden kub kar with a Buggatti's budget?



    edit: REALLY?! You f-ing serious? "The word for urine that rhymes with diss" is censored?!

    edit 2: But the "vulgar term for fornicating that rhymes with tucking" isn't censored?!?!?!
  • csm001csm001 Registered Users Posts: 53
    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,808
    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 2,887
    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    Try not to forget that Norsca virtually didn't exist in the tabletop. Norsca was pulled off because CA added nearly everything they could have added into the game. The only reason people were satisfied over Norsca is because they could do Norsca relative justice with their shoestring budget.


    And guess what? You still ended up with a faction with 2 LL who plays the same, have nearly the same start position, and only 1 single generic Lord all 200+ turns long.


    Imagine Norsca's shoestring budget, but now done on Chaos Dwarfs or Ogre Kingdom, factions people actually care about and want done justice. How the hell are they going to add all those new content with a happy meal budget?
  • csm001csm001 Registered Users Posts: 53
    saweendra said:

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    You don't know what they can do with 'that budget' because you don't know the budget. Neither do I

    Given how good have been the sales, the budget for the preorder could be massive. Preorders are done to get more people buying the game, they are not supposed to be bad. The budget should be massive

    And yes, the good stuff could be kept for years and be sold as a DLC instead of for free. That's called cash grabbing. It may happen, but I don't wish it

    I wish to get Chaos Dwarfs at top quality the sooner the better, and for free, since this is a wish. And I don't wish a low level preorder. That's it

    I struggle to understand why people here is so extremely pessimistic about Game 3, so far I am very happy with what CA has done, in general
  • csm001csm001 Registered Users Posts: 53

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    Try not to forget that Norsca virtually didn't exist in the tabletop. Norsca was pulled off because CA added nearly everything they could have added into the game. The only reason people were satisfied over Norsca is because they could do Norsca relative justice with their shoestring budget.


    And guess what? You still ended up with a faction with 2 LL who plays the same, have nearly the same start position, and only 1 single generic Lord all 200+ turns long.


    Imagine Norsca's shoestring budget, but now done on Chaos Dwarfs or Ogre Kingdom, factions people actually care about and want done justice. How the hell are they going to add all those new content with a happy meal budget?
    The 'happy meal budget' is the point here. With how successful the series is, there is no reason to have a 'happy meal budget' preorder. Other than keeping the good stuff for later (cash grab), which I hope they don't do

    Now you imagine Chaos Dwarfs released this year with a budget big enough to make them justice, and for free

    This is about wishes, and that's my wish. And looking at how Game 3 sales are going, I think there is a good chance we could get this
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 2,666
    csm001 said:

    saweendra said:

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    You don't know what they can do with 'that budget' because you don't know the budget. Neither do I

    Given how good have been the sales, the budget for the preorder could be massive. Preorders are done to get more people buying the game, they are not supposed to be bad. The budget should be massive

    And yes, the good stuff could be kept for years and be sold as a DLC instead of for free. That's called cash grabbing. It may happen, but I don't wish it

    I wish to get Chaos Dwarfs at top quality the sooner the better, and for free, since this is a wish. And I don't wish a low level preorder. That's it

    I struggle to understand why people here is so extremely pessimistic about Game 3, so far I am very happy with what CA has done, in general
    If lots of people are buying the game, the pre-order budget is more likely to go down than up- it's an incentive to get people to buy the game. If people are buying it, the incentive is less important, not more important.

    At the end of the day, CA (and more importantly, GW/Sega) are companies, so profit is the most important. Selling the Chaos Dwarfs as a campaign pack makes them more money than giving it away as a pre-order. Full stop.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 3,435
    edited May 7
    Pr4vda said:

    I like this forum. Give your opinion, based on nothing but wishes, and other people will tell you that is impossible, because their own wishes tell them : it would be a waste to do CD as preorder, they will be a race pack !

    So I fully agree with you @DaBoyzAreBackInTown !

    CD could have the potential to be the preorder race. Because :

    1/ CA could have a bigger budget. So a better pack than before.
    2/ even as a "cheap" preorder, they could add DLC for DLC and still make lot of money.
    3/ some of their units are reskin. More than some : at least all their lords, heroes and base units. How can you say a CD is vastly different from a normal dwarf ? They have 2 arms, 2 legs, a beard and a heavy armor, and use the same animations. The same for the GS and probably hobgobbos and some of their artillery. Yes, they have unique units that needs a huge work. But they could get a few in at launch and the rest in another DLC.
    4/ we dont know CA goals and economy. Would it be better to sell a CD Race pack at 20€? Or make them the preorder and put a DLC later at 10€ ? I dunno. Such thing is impossible to tell at our level. Preorder could have a bigger impact on WH3 sales, or not at all, I dunno.

    So. To be clear. I would also think CD would be better as a huge awesome race pack. I like them and want the best and the more of them. Still. THAT is a possibility. Even if you do not like it.

    Double of norsca budget not even gonna be enough, why is that so hard to understand?

    I am seriously just baffle who people show completly new artillery and monster pieces.

    All i see is (they can reuse assest and even chaos dwarf look completly diffrent from normal dwarf)

    Yes they core is dwarf and orcs even they need new look but.

    Also the tomb kings, they base are Skeletton warrior and cavalry what we already HAVE!

    And still they came as campagne pack then,.

    "The rest can come as a dlc."

    Wow..

    Now they become Beastman?

    need to wait for the centerpiece units for half a decade or more? ive they could just come 2022 with all their stuff?

    Maybe i am little to senstive but that almost cd hate what i read here.

  • afverrallafverrall Registered Users Posts: 494
    Dogs of war would be ideal 4 lords with a basic roster and huge ror pool.

  • csm001csm001 Registered Users Posts: 53

    csm001 said:

    saweendra said:

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    You don't know what they can do with 'that budget' because you don't know the budget. Neither do I

    Given how good have been the sales, the budget for the preorder could be massive. Preorders are done to get more people buying the game, they are not supposed to be bad. The budget should be massive

    And yes, the good stuff could be kept for years and be sold as a DLC instead of for free. That's called cash grabbing. It may happen, but I don't wish it

    I wish to get Chaos Dwarfs at top quality the sooner the better, and for free, since this is a wish. And I don't wish a low level preorder. That's it

    I struggle to understand why people here is so extremely pessimistic about Game 3, so far I am very happy with what CA has done, in general
    If lots of people are buying the game, the pre-order budget is more likely to go down than up- it's an incentive to get people to buy the game. If people are buying it, the incentive is less important, not more important.

    At the end of the day, CA (and more importantly, GW/Sega) are companies, so profit is the most important. Selling the Chaos Dwarfs as a campaign pack makes them more money than giving it away as a pre-order. Full stop.
    More sense for them, no doubt

    But it is a bad thing for us, isn't it? Asking for money for something that could be possible to get for free? Preorder = day 0 DLC?

    I get why people expect this to happen. What buffles me to no end is people seemingly wanting it. Or saying that they will inmediately de-preorder the game if the preorder is a big faction, without seeing how it is done

    To the people who disagree with me saying 'I want Chaos Dwarfs at top quality, making them justice, the sooner the better and for free'... what part do you disagree with?

    If you could pick between top quality Chaos Dwarfs for free and the same quality Chaos Dwarfs as a 2023 expensive DLC, will you actually want the second option?? For real??
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 3,435
    csm001 said:

    csm001 said:

    saweendra said:

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    You don't know what they can do with 'that budget' because you don't know the budget. Neither do I

    Given how good have been the sales, the budget for the preorder could be massive. Preorders are done to get more people buying the game, they are not supposed to be bad. The budget should be massive

    And yes, the good stuff could be kept for years and be sold as a DLC instead of for free. That's called cash grabbing. It may happen, but I don't wish it

    I wish to get Chaos Dwarfs at top quality the sooner the better, and for free, since this is a wish. And I don't wish a low level preorder. That's it

    I struggle to understand why people here is so extremely pessimistic about Game 3, so far I am very happy with what CA has done, in general
    If lots of people are buying the game, the pre-order budget is more likely to go down than up- it's an incentive to get people to buy the game. If people are buying it, the incentive is less important, not more important.

    At the end of the day, CA (and more importantly, GW/Sega) are companies, so profit is the most important. Selling the Chaos Dwarfs as a campaign pack makes them more money than giving it away as a pre-order. Full stop.
    More sense for them, no doubt

    But it is a bad thing for us, isn't it? Asking for money for something that could be possible to get for free? Preorder = day 0 DLC?

    I get why people expect this to happen. What buffles me to no end is people seemingly wanting it. Or saying that they will inmediately de-preorder the game if the preorder is a big faction, without seeing how it is done

    To the people who disagree with me saying 'I want Chaos Dwarfs at top quality, making them justice, the sooner the better and for free'... what part do you disagree with?

    If you could pick between top quality Chaos Dwarfs for free and the same quality Chaos Dwarfs as a 2023 expensive DLC, will you actually want the second option?? For real??
    My problem is.

    CA not gonna do them justice with that kind of budget.

    that my biggest problem even double the norsca budget is just not enough.

    They could be done for free and sooner but you have to think what sacrafices have to be made?

    You must imagine, that kinda a question of, do we take the unsafe route that get faster but propaly lose something important.

    Or we take the long but safe route that almost garanty to 90% that we get all?

    I rather wait longer and get all instead do now and risk to lose something.

  • DrazhoaththeAshenDrazhoaththeAshen Registered Users Posts: 279
    edited May 7
    csm001 said:

    csm001 said:

    saweendra said:

    csm001 said:

    ASyrian said:

    Chaos dwarfs with a fully fleshed out set
    Bc of the big money they made with wh2 they are able to make a preorder bonus of quality never seen before

    ^This

    Just like Norsca was better than anything that came before. I don't buy the 'preorder=bad' theory

    And the LoTW theory for ChD sounds awesome
    yes that would be enough to get 4LL DoW pack but no way in Hell they can do CD or Ok on that budget plus it would be stupid since those would sell really well as DlC
    You don't know what they can do with 'that budget' because you don't know the budget. Neither do I

    Given how good have been the sales, the budget for the preorder could be massive. Preorders are done to get more people buying the game, they are not supposed to be bad. The budget should be massive

    And yes, the good stuff could be kept for years and be sold as a DLC instead of for free. That's called cash grabbing. It may happen, but I don't wish it

    I wish to get Chaos Dwarfs at top quality the sooner the better, and for free, since this is a wish. And I don't wish a low level preorder. That's it

    I struggle to understand why people here is so extremely pessimistic about Game 3, so far I am very happy with what CA has done, in general
    If lots of people are buying the game, the pre-order budget is more likely to go down than up- it's an incentive to get people to buy the game. If people are buying it, the incentive is less important, not more important.

    At the end of the day, CA (and more importantly, GW/Sega) are companies, so profit is the most important. Selling the Chaos Dwarfs as a campaign pack makes them more money than giving it away as a pre-order. Full stop.
    More sense for them, no doubt

    But it is a bad thing for us, isn't it? Asking for money for something that could be possible to get for free? Preorder = day 0 DLC?

    I get why people expect this to happen. What buffles me to no end is people seemingly wanting it. Or saying that they will inmediately de-preorder the game if the preorder is a big faction, without seeing how it is done

    To the people who disagree with me saying 'I want Chaos Dwarfs at top quality, making them justice, the sooner the better and for free'... what part do you disagree with?

    If you could pick between top quality Chaos Dwarfs for free and the same quality Chaos Dwarfs as a 2023 expensive DLC, will you actually want the second option?? For real??
    I am willing to bet I have more skin in the Chaos Dwarf game than anyone on these forums. I'm talking serious moolah over about two decades if not more. And I am here to tell you I would be willing to pay a hefty premium to see them done right. Preorder, day zero, free doesn't sound as appealing to me as it seems to sound to you. You get what you pay for. I don't want the race to which I have committed incalculable hours and money to be some marketing gimmick. That's what preorders are.

    As for the, whole "immediately de-preordering the game without seeing how it is done." I am one of them, and have no shame about it. I enjoyed the Chaos Dwarfs before this trilogy, and they will be here long after this trilogy is a memory. I have a small treasure trove that has yet to be unpainted, and a pretty reliable community in my area with which to play filled with people who I love. This game is icing on the cake for me, and I am here for Chaos Dwarfs not the other way around. It's been that way since the leak back in, what? 2016? I mean... I only joined these forums in an effort to push back against the narrative that Chaos Dwarfs should be the preorder.

    So yeah, if they don't measure up to the quality that I expect then I will play with the Chaos Dwarfs mod on Warhammer 2, which I really enjoy, and play with/paint my little plastic toys, and you guys can enjoy this game to the fullest. It just wasn't for me. I'm willing to make that commitment because there is no reality in which Chaos Dwarfs can be done justice with a preorder. None. JungleElf pointed out in another thread that even ignoring the units and lords, the audio, architecture, and such alone demands a full campaign pack. And CA is NOT, no matter the mental gymnastics, going to commit resources to those things in something that is for the most part free.

    The reason it baffles you is because, for you, a slightly skimmed down Chaos Dwarfs wouldn't really register. You don't have a standard that it must measure to. They are what they are and you are just happy to have them. But for me it has years of head fantasy to live up to. I sit between patients at work thinking about what the music would sound like. What it would be like to see the obsidian ziggurats that I have been fantasizing about for ages. The dialogue that would exist between characters. And people come here and say, "Gosh, why wouldn't you just be happy with a reskinned free day zero preorder bonus!?" No, no I wouldn't. I am willing to lower my expectations to meet the reality of game production/development in the 2020s, but not to the level of a preorder.

    Keep calm and praise Hashut
    Beautiful artwork by Matt Hancox
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