Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

If the Skaven Clans dedicated themselves to the Monogods?

TheWattmanTheWattman Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 724
So in AoS, the Horned Rat rose to take his place among the Chaos Gods, completing an alignment process that was already in the works in Warhammer Fantasy for a long time. But lets suppose that the Horned Rat was merely absorbed by the other Chaos Gods and thus they became the patrons of the Skaven race. Now, which of the major Clans do you suppose would align themselves to which Gods?

Some of them are easy to match, like for example obviously Clan Pestilens would align itself with Nurgle, but where would the others go. Where would the assassins of Clan Eshin go, or the tinkerers of Clan Skryre?

Comments

  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 809
    Eshin... Eshin... Shady dealings. Constantly scheming snd Backstsbing... probably Khorne
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,423
    edited May 7

    So in AoS, the Horned Rat rose to take his place among the Chaos Gods, completing an alignment process that was already in the works in Warhammer Fantasy for a long time. But lets suppose that the Horned Rat was merely absorbed by the other Chaos Gods and thus they became the patrons of the Skaven race. Now, which of the major Clans do you suppose would align themselves to which Gods?

    Some of them are easy to match, like for example obviously Clan Pestilens would align itself with Nurgle, but where would the others go. Where would the assassins of Clan Eshin go, or the tinkerers of Clan Skryre?

    If the Horned Rat was destroyed or consumed, the combined greed and selfishness of the Skaven would simply create another Chaos God with the same characteristics, as none of the brothers quite goes into the same direction. Presumably the Verminlords would start fighting among themselves of who gets to replace the Horned Rat as that's something they all planned to do one day anyway and the Skaven would end up following one or another of them.

    Clan Pestilens would not align itself with Nurgle, AoS shows there's fundamental differences in how each approaches the topic of disease when they do end up cooperating in attacking Ghyran. In short, Pestilens sees plagues as just another means to satisfy their greed while Nurgle sees plagues as an end unto themselves.


  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 1,953

    So in AoS, the Horned Rat rose to take his place among the Chaos Gods, completing an alignment process that was already in the works in Warhammer Fantasy for a long time. But lets suppose that the Horned Rat was merely absorbed by the other Chaos Gods and thus they became the patrons of the Skaven race. Now, which of the major Clans do you suppose would align themselves to which Gods?

    Some of them are easy to match, like for example obviously Clan Pestilens would align itself with Nurgle, but where would the others go. Where would the assassins of Clan Eshin go, or the tinkerers of Clan Skryre?

    Well to entertain this hypothetical, I'd say Eshin would be Tzeentch with all their plotting and backstabbing, so would Skyre due to their constant strive to create new and better weapons, while Moulder would probably go to Khorne as they value the physical strength of their creations over everything else.
  • MrDragonMrDragon Registered Users Posts: 2,313
    Just as a fun hypothetical:

    Pestilens goes Nurgle (duh)
    Skryre goes Tzeentch (also duh)
    Mors goes Khorne (again, obvious)
    Moulder seems like Tzeentch again... with the horrific mutation, change, growth themes.
    Eshin also seems mostly Tzeentch... scheming, trickery etc
    Rictus goes to Slaanesh perhaps? with the pride of their stormvermin and their wealth from slave-trade.
    Clan Volkn goes to Hashut.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,423
    Rob18446 said:

    So in AoS, the Horned Rat rose to take his place among the Chaos Gods, completing an alignment process that was already in the works in Warhammer Fantasy for a long time. But lets suppose that the Horned Rat was merely absorbed by the other Chaos Gods and thus they became the patrons of the Skaven race. Now, which of the major Clans do you suppose would align themselves to which Gods?

    Some of them are easy to match, like for example obviously Clan Pestilens would align itself with Nurgle, but where would the others go. Where would the assassins of Clan Eshin go, or the tinkerers of Clan Skryre?

    Well to entertain this hypothetical, I'd say Eshin would be Tzeentch with all their plotting and backstabbing, so would Skyre due to their constant strive to create new and better weapons, while Moulder would probably go to Khorne as they value the physical strength of their creations over everything else.
    I disagree with Eshin because as much as they seem to be about plotting, they're also the clan most dedicated for keeping the status quo intact as they act as the muscle for the Council of Thirteen, and that's antithetical to Tzeentch.


  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 724
    Rob18446 said:

    Well to entertain this hypothetical, I'd say Eshin would be Tzeentch with all their plotting and backstabbing, so would Skyre due to their constant strive to create new and better weapons, while Moulder would probably go to Khorne as they value the physical strength of their creations over everything else.

    MrDragon said:

    Just as a fun hypothetical:

    Pestilens goes Nurgle (duh)
    Skryre goes Tzeentch (also duh)
    Mors goes Khorne (again, obvious)
    Moulder seems like Tzeentch again... with the horrific mutation, change, growth themes.
    Eshin also seems mostly Tzeentch... scheming, trickery etc
    Rictus goes to Slaanesh perhaps? with the pride of their stormvermin and their wealth from slave-trade.
    Clan Volkn goes to Hashut.

    Interesting, we have a split on Moulder here. Honestly Moulder could also go for Nurgle, as they are into creating new forms of life and such, which also aligns with him.
  • MrDragonMrDragon Registered Users Posts: 2,313

    Rob18446 said:

    Well to entertain this hypothetical, I'd say Eshin would be Tzeentch with all their plotting and backstabbing, so would Skyre due to their constant strive to create new and better weapons, while Moulder would probably go to Khorne as they value the physical strength of their creations over everything else.

    MrDragon said:

    Just as a fun hypothetical:

    Pestilens goes Nurgle (duh)
    Skryre goes Tzeentch (also duh)
    Mors goes Khorne (again, obvious)
    Moulder seems like Tzeentch again... with the horrific mutation, change, growth themes.
    Eshin also seems mostly Tzeentch... scheming, trickery etc
    Rictus goes to Slaanesh perhaps? with the pride of their stormvermin and their wealth from slave-trade.
    Clan Volkn goes to Hashut.

    Interesting, we have a split on Moulder here. Honestly Moulder could also go for Nurgle, as they are into creating new forms of life and such, which also aligns with him.
    Moulder is a tricky one to place. I can even see Slaanesh in there with the level of pride, passion and artistry that Throt puts into his work and other moulders follow that example.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,762

    Rob18446 said:

    So in AoS, the Horned Rat rose to take his place among the Chaos Gods, completing an alignment process that was already in the works in Warhammer Fantasy for a long time. But lets suppose that the Horned Rat was merely absorbed by the other Chaos Gods and thus they became the patrons of the Skaven race. Now, which of the major Clans do you suppose would align themselves to which Gods?

    Some of them are easy to match, like for example obviously Clan Pestilens would align itself with Nurgle, but where would the others go. Where would the assassins of Clan Eshin go, or the tinkerers of Clan Skryre?

    Well to entertain this hypothetical, I'd say Eshin would be Tzeentch with all their plotting and backstabbing, so would Skyre due to their constant strive to create new and better weapons, while Moulder would probably go to Khorne as they value the physical strength of their creations over everything else.
    I disagree with Eshin because as much as they seem to be about plotting, they're also the clan most dedicated for keeping the status quo intact as they act as the muscle for the Council of Thirteen, and that's antithetical to Tzeentch.
    To be fair, Tzeentch's plot also tend to keep the status quo.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,762



    Clan Pestilens would not align itself with Nurgle, AoS shows there's fundamental differences in how each approaches the topic of disease when they do end up cooperating in attacking Ghyran. In short, Pestilens sees plagues as just another means to satisfy their greed while Nurgle sees plagues as an end unto themselves.

    Let's not forget that the end times made absolutely zero sense.Everything in previous lore pointed to exactly the opposite:

    Pestilens is all about a religion about plague. Plague monks, plague priests, "sacred" plague censer bearers... Resulting from this is a relationship with plague that is very similar to that of the Nurgle followers: they become stronger from being infected.

    In fact, they consider themselves the most devout followers of the Horned Rat, but consider that all the Skaven creed is incorrect:

    The plague monks believe that the rest of their Skaven brothers have been misled by the Grey Seers. They feel that the average ratman has been blinded to what they profess to be the true face of the Horned Rat; namely, pestilence itself. The clan’s overriding goal is to bring the rest of the Under-Empire into the fold, while avoiding declarations of heresy from the Grey Seers. Appeasing the Grey Seers for the time being is the only way to succeed. In time, once their victories have been secured and the rest of the Skaven clans have been won over, the Grey Seers, too, will follow their example, or die.[1a]

    Like the Grey Seers, the plague monks, priests, and deacons of Clan Pestilens believe the time of the Great Ascendancy is fast approaching. Pestilens’ peculiar twist on this mythology is that the Horned Rat will only allow such a victory if the majority of the Under-Empire has converted to their form of worship. How else can one explain the failures wrought time and time again by the bumbling campaigns of the Lords of Decay?[1a]


    In other words, they think the horned rat true face is plague itself.

    Similarly, the ultimate objective of a plague priest is being as infected as possible:

    To them, being a living and walking altar of contamination is the strident goal of every Plague Priest, who themselves lead by example.


    Or lord Skrolk, who clawed his own eyes after seeing Nurglitch because he though seeing so much plague was the peak experience ever and didn't want to dilute the pleasure:

    Lord Skrolk is one of the Plaguelords, the rulers of Clan Pestilens under the direct command of Arch-Plaguelord Nurglitch, he-who-is-tenth on the Council. It was the sight of the radiant corruption of the Arch-Plaguelord that caused Skrolk to claw out his own eyes, as he wished to see no other vision to obscure that last glimpse of perfection.



    So yeah, no. Skyere uses poison weapons and the like in a practical way, for a purpose. Peestilens on the other hand worships plague on itself. I mean, their archlord is Nurglitch, the liber bubonicus is a nurgle tome...

    If the End of Times made any sense, we would have been shown how the horned rat and Hashut are just manifestations of the other gods.


  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,423
    This is not ET, it's AoS. Pestilens is still fundamentally Skaven, they're still fundamentally greedy and are grasping for power. Plagues and diseases and religious ecstasy are just their way of going for it. Skrolk despite and sentimentality still hates Nurglitch and wants to take his place.

    Pestilens and Nurgle for all their similarities are utterly incompatible and it's clear the Great Horned Rat just wants to steal Nurgle's place since after Slaanesh's capture he's now the weakest of the brothers.


  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,360
    The skaven clans dark actions likely empower the chaos gods already.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,423
    Tayvar said:

    The skaven clans dark actions likely empower the chaos gods already.

    They empower the one chaos god they already have.


  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 12,554
    edited May 7
    Pocman said:

    So yeah, no. Skyere uses poison weapons and the like in a practical way, for a purpose. Peestilens on the other hand worships plague on itself. I mean, their archlord is Nurglitch, the liber bubonicus is a nurgle tome...

    Skaven using Liber Bubonicus isn't that much different from the Imperium using the Imperial Creed, or whatever Lorgar's proclamation of the Emperor as a god was called at the time.

    If anything, it would imply that Clan Pestilens could theoretically be tempted to join Nurgle's lot by some form of heresy, but their core tenets still make it clear they follow GHR.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • ToxicFlamesToxicFlames Registered Users Posts: 421
    Mors - Khorne

    Pestilens - Nurgle

    Skryre or Grey Seer Clan - Tzeench

    Rictus - Slaanesh?

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,964
    I've generally assigned the Great Clans as following:

    Pestilens: Nurgle.
    Skryre: Tzeentch (magic focus)
    Moulder: Khorne (using big melee monsters is a fairly Khornate approach, and however much some people might have wanted it to be a thing, there has never been a Lore of Mutation. Moulder-specific spellcasters existed but all they could do was summon rats)
    Eshin: Slaanesh (a bit of a case of pairing-the-spares, but infiltration and assassination is something I largely associate with Slaanesh and Tzeentch more than the other gods, and obsession with mastering the art of dishonourable killing feels like it fits well with Slaanesh)

    Of course, GW chose to go a different direction, but if they had chosen to go with the approach that the GHR was essentially a muscomorphic representation of Chaos Undivided, that's how I'd expect the Great Clans to shake out.
  • GordregGordreg Registered Users Posts: 59
    Before the Horned Rat became 'very much a real thing', I'd always associated the great clans as unknowingly following:

    Pestilens: Nurgle - Their love and devotion to disease and their religious enthusiasm for plague really makes this obvious.

    Skyre: Tzeentch - The brainiest of the great clans, always seeking new machines to devise and new uses for Warpstone; heedless and boundless and reckless innovation.

    Eshin: Khorne - Though admittedly a very Skaven approach to Khorne, murder is at the heart of this clan. Their clan members are more trained in the ways of war then the other great clans, putting a greater emphasis on physical skill and ability.

    Moulder: Slaneesh - These beastmasters seek to create more perfect creatures through breeding and flesh-stitching. Bioengineering is more of a Slaneeshi schtick in 40K with the Slaneeshi Emperor's children sporting all sorts of strange physical augmentations - if Fabius Bile were a Skaven, he'd be clan Moulder.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,360

    Tayvar said:

    The skaven clans dark actions likely empower the chaos gods already.

    They empower the one chaos god they already have.
    Not only him, the chaos gods are empowered by actions, chaos gods don't need direct worship.

  • Darthplagueis13Darthplagueis13 Registered Users Posts: 794
    MrDragon said:


    Clan Volkn goes to Hashut.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hashut get destroyed by the Green Godz during the End Times? Is he somehow back in AOS?
Sign In or Register to comment.