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The Choices for a Nagash Race. How would it/he be represented?

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Comments

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,891
    edited May 12
    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 5,107
    Labria said:

    Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units

    Like what?
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769

    Nagash doesn't really have his own "race", he gets access to Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings assets.

    For heavens sake.

    Once more, with feeling.


    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,929
    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Registered Users Posts: 1,989
    SerPus said:

    Labria said:

    Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units

    Like what?
    Melee Bone Giant

    Liche High Priest

    Khemric Titan

    Scarabs

    Warhammer Fantasy is less grimdark than 40k.
    Ogre Kingdoms when CA?
    Dogs of War need Ogres and halflings.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 5,107

    Melee Bone Giant

    Liche High Priest

    Khemric Titan

    Scarabs

    Scarabs are already in the game as a spell. Melee Bone Giant and Khemric Titan aren't undead units.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    edited May 12

    Nagash doesn't really have his own "race", he gets access to Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings assets.

    For heavens sake.

    Once more, with feeling.


    This is a really ancient source and was never followed up on by GW. The fact that they previously felt nagash's legions and the Vampire counts could be represented by one list says a lot about the faction.

    I still don't understand why people like this potential race... it doesn't offer anything interesting that the existing undead factions don't already. Even in peoples wildest imaginations it is basically just Vampire Counts again with different names.

    The two armies Nagash was in are as follows;

    4th Edition: A full undead race designed to represent all parts of the living dead in warhammer.

    8th Edition: A full undead race combining all parts of the living dead as represented by 8th edition.

    The only armies Nagash has ever lead are comprised of the units we have already in the game...

    Though as I have said before.... I don't think it is impossible - it has a fair chance of being the pre-order. I don't doubt it's chances; just consider it a massive waste of energy.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769
    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    edited May 12

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.

    Can anyone describe to me a single thing about the Legions of Nagash that separates them from the existing Vampire counts roster beyond "They should be more elite"? Which is subjective - an army of grave guard is more elite then an army of skeletons.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    edited May 12

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    Then why does every attempt at a legion army list here come out looking exactly like Vampire counts but with fancier names?

    The only actual new units are Morgasts, the Simulacrum and Mummies. Everything else is basically this formula;

    Vampire Counts Units + Fancy Name + 'More Elite' = Legions Unit.

    E.G.

    Grave Guard + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Nagshizzar Guard
    Black Knights + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Unquiet Horsemen
    Cairn Wraiths + (less) Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Ghosts/Spirit Hosts

    There are very few proposed units that don't fit this exact criteria....
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,769
    edited May 12

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    Then why does every attempt at a legion army list here come out looking exactly like Vampire counts but with fancier names?

    The only actual new units are Morgasts, the Simulacrum and Mummies. Everything else is bascially this formula;

    Vampire Counts Units + Different Name + 'More Elite' = Legions Unit.

    E.G.

    Grave Guard + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Nagshizzar Guard
    Black Knights + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Unquiet Horsemen

    There are very few proposed units that don't fit this exact criteria....
    That's literally no different than your neopolitan ice cream chosen with weapon varients.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,891

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    Then why does every attempt at a legion army list here come out looking exactly like Vampire counts but with fancier names?

    The only actual new units are Morgasts, the Simulacrum and Mummies. Everything else is basically this formula;

    Vampire Counts Units + Fancy Name + 'More Elite' = Legions Unit.

    E.G.

    Grave Guard + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Nagshizzar Guard
    Black Knights + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Unquiet Horsemen
    Cairn Wraiths + (less) Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Ghosts/Spirit Hosts

    There are very few proposed units that don't fit this exact criteria....
    Thats how it works with Elves and Humans.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    Then why does every attempt at a legion army list here come out looking exactly like Vampire counts but with fancier names?

    The only actual new units are Morgasts, the Simulacrum and Mummies. Everything else is basically this formula;

    Vampire Counts Units + Fancy Name + 'More Elite' = Legions Unit.

    E.G.

    Grave Guard + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Nagshizzar Guard
    Black Knights + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Unquiet Horsemen
    Cairn Wraiths + (less) Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Ghosts/Spirit Hosts

    There are very few proposed units that don't fit this exact criteria....
    Thats how it works with Elves and Humans.
    Except we aren't proposing Empire 2.0 or High Elves 2.0. This isn't a case against the 'tier' system; more that it's just weird to basically copy another roster 1-1 and just change it slightly.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    I have said over-and-over that I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely and CA might well do it. They do like to curveball. I am not arguing that - more I just think it would be a huge waste of development time.

    If you just made Nagash a B'elakor style character who has the Vampire & Tomb Kings rosters built in with new mechanics and maybe 1-2 new units - that would suit him perfectly. That could be achieved through a lord pack - you don't need to waste a race slot for the sake of adding Nagash & Morgasts.
    No more a waste than splitting the DoC armybook into 4.
    Except Chaos has a huge wealth of content to draw on; even from just 8th edition. To get all of that in the game in a reasonable format - four races were required. Monos was a case of having so much content that CA didn't know what to do with it all!

    Nagash does not have that. He has himself, one new unit and some associated characters. Everything else people suggest for him are drawn from the RoR end-times list (which does sometimes get used to make new units) or from obscure white dwarf sources. He is the opposite to Monos; where he technically should have a race - but has basically no content to draw from.
    And undead doesn't have a huge wealth of content?

    Arneso can make a list of content big enough for an entire campaign pack for Nagash using oldhammer, unused assets and lore snippets. And who knows what the unreleased Undead Legions books actually looks like in GW's vaults.
    Then why does every attempt at a legion army list here come out looking exactly like Vampire counts but with fancier names?

    The only actual new units are Morgasts, the Simulacrum and Mummies. Everything else is bascially this formula;

    Vampire Counts Units + Different Name + 'More Elite' = Legions Unit.

    E.G.

    Grave Guard + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Nagshizzar Guard
    Black Knights + Fancy Name + "More Elite" = Unquiet Horsemen

    There are very few proposed units that don't fit this exact criteria....
    That's literally no different than your neopolitan ice cream chosen with weapon varients.
    I disagree. God-Aligned Chaos Chosen were not only table top units with unique abilities; but also had unique appearances and lore. There is a much bigger difference between a Nurgle Chosen and a Khorne Chosen then what has been suggested here.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,891
    edited May 12
    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    Drycha at times was at peace with the other wood elves inbetween being at war with them. Nagash is the most hated enemy of all Tomb Kings.

    Its like putting Archaeon in Empire.

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    I have just proven to you that GW considered Nagash it's own race going back to 6th edition. Just because GW didn't have the resources to fully flesh out a third Undead race at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist within the Warhammer sphere.

    And if it was true that CA couldn't flesh them out on GWs behalf we never would've gotten the unreleased content for the 8th edition Bretonnia book. Or the dozens of other examples of lore being made into units.
    Yes - they are a thing that existed in the backgrounds of the lore. But it is also true that the latest interpretation of Nagash lead vampire and tomb king forces. Presumably because nagashs legions were indistinguishable from these existing races.
    Had not been distinguished. There's a difference.

    And by the time The End times rolled around GW was literally destroying the setting. Of course they weren't going to create a brand new model range when they could just assimilate the old stuff for their new IP.


    The Vampire Coast was always just the VC navy, yet here we are. Fully fleshed out unique Undead experience. The idea that this is somehow an unattainable goal for the Undead Legions as well is mind boggling.
    Eeeh...Vampire Coast has no connection with the Vampire Counts, even Noctilis. They gave that life up and are antagonistic to other undead.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    edited May 12
    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    Drycha at times was at peace with the other wood elves inbetween being at war with them. Nagash is the most hated enemy of all Tomb Kings.

    Its like putting Archaeon in Empire.
    Apart from the fact Arkhan is a Tomb Kings LL; who is opposed to the others and literally called 'Followers of Nagash'.

    Indeed Arkhans victory conditions are lterally about him beating down the other tomb king LL's and vice versa. So being part of the same total war 'race' is not a preclude from being an antagonist.

    Remember that Nagash did use to be a mortal man from Khemri - that is his home. Just because he is unaligned with the other Tomb Kings (who don't have confederation btw); doesn't mean he can't use the aesthetic. (or the Vampire Counts aesthetic).

    That's not toe mention that every time Nagash was playable on the TT - he could lead a tomb kings army....
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,891
    edited May 12

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    Drycha at times was at peace with the other wood elves inbetween being at war with them. Nagash is the most hated enemy of all Tomb Kings.

    Its like putting Archaeon in Empire.
    Apart from the fact Arkhan is a Tomb Kings LL; who is opposed to the others and literally called 'Followers of Nagash'.

    Indeed Arkhans victory conditions are lterally about him beating down the other tomb king LL's and vice versa. So being part of the same total war 'race' is not a preclude from being an antagonist.

    Remember that Nagash did use to be a mortal man from Khemri - that is his home. Just because he is unaligned with the other Tomb Kings (who don't have confederation btw); doesn't mean he can't use the aesthetic. (or the Vampire Counts aesthetic).

    That's not toe mention that every time Nagash was playable on the TT - he could lead a tomb kings army....
    Arkhan at numerious times had made peace with Settra, plotted against Settra and went to war with Settra...several times. Being part of Tomb Kings since Nagash's faction wasnt in at that point, makes sense and he can probably still stay with them.

    Drycha had similar behaviour with the Wood Elves.

    Under no circumstances would the tomb kings ever make peace with Nagash and in fact when he reappeared the entire tomb kings went to war against him.

    Nagash's entire character is he has moved BEYOND beyond a Nehekaran...beyond being a Tomb King, Vampire Count or any other form of undead...to being God of Undeath that wants to enforce HIS will over the entire planet in his own image.

    Archaon began as a Priest of Sigmar. Should he be an Empire LL who can confederate Chaos LLs?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,891

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Legion of Nagash was never something more on TT than just mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count unit + Morghasts.

    if you can make fanmade unit roster from missing undead units and characters to make Nagash race. You can really make same thing to make Thanquol race as pre-order race pack from missing Skaven stuff.

    Why Tomb Kings legendary lords should be one big happy family? Tomb Kings already have Arkhan the Black as their legendary lord. Obviously, Nagash as Tomb Kings LL should really have option to make confederation only with Akrhan the Black.

    Nagash for Tomb Kings will be really same like Drycha for Wood Elves.
    Drycha at times was at peace with the other wood elves inbetween being at war with them. Nagash is the most hated enemy of all Tomb Kings.

    Its like putting Archaeon in Empire.
    Apart from the fact Arkhan is a Tomb Kings LL; who is opposed to the others and literally called 'Followers of Nagash'.

    Indeed Arkhans victory conditions are lterally about him beating down the other tomb king LL's and vice versa. So being part of the same total war 'race' is not a preclude from being an antagonist.

    Remember that Nagash did use to be a mortal man from Khemri - that is his home. Just because he is unaligned with the other Tomb Kings (who don't have confederation btw); doesn't mean he can't use the aesthetic. (or the Vampire Counts aesthetic).

    That's not toe mention that every time Nagash was playable on the TT - he could lead a tomb kings army....
    Arkhan's story was that he was at various states of war, peace and plotting with the various other tomb kings...namely Settra. This is the important difference here. Arkhan and Drycha both have some form of connection and diplomacy with the rest of their faction.

    Nagash is the opposite; hes the eternal enemy of all Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Vampire Coast...because he seeks to completely remake the world in his image as the new God of Undeath.

    That he's from Khemri matters zero; hes so far beyond that as a deity now. Similar to how Archaon who began as a Priest of Sigmar in the Empire...unless your suggesting Archaon belongs more to Empire?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 5,107

    Remember that Nagash did use to be a mortal man from Khemri - that is his home.

    Archaon used to be imperial knight, Dechala used to be elven princess, van Horstmann used to be a Magister of Imperial College of Magic, Festus used to be a doctor from the Empire. Most of the Vampires used to be living Nehekarians.

  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,095
    edited May 12
    What's that about Nagash not making peace with Khemri?



    I'm still confused why Nagash apparently won't have the actual army list he actually had in the game...

    Mono-Gods could be played as such - in fact I often did. Nagash was/is always Nagash - Vampire or TK lord.

    Both versions (4th and 8th) of Nagash had this army list. (obviously adjusting for editions and new units).



    Morgasts, Nagashizzar Guard etc all came as part of the lore/units for this army list. The majority of his content comes from the endtimes in fact - and this is how he looked in the end-times.
    The wiki is not a grounds for arguing about lore - because ANYONE can edit it at any time.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,215
    Amonkhet said:

    Labria said:

    If you think about it. Nagash race doesn't really make any sense in the game. Honestly, Legion of Nagash race is really same like try to make 2nd skaven race with Thanquol, Skreech Verminking and random mix of missing Skaven units.

    it is not really possible to have confederation between two different races in the game. Just imagine Nagash race will make confederation with Mannfred. His whole red line in skill tree with focus to buff Vampire Counts units will be useless after confederation.

    Why not add Constant Drachenfels to Vampire Counts as unique ghost LL with main focus to Vampire Counts ghosts units?
    Why not add Nagash to same race like his right hand and his books? I can imagine it will be more easy to sell Nagash in Tomb Kings lord pack than try to sell mix of Tomb kings and Vampire Count units as "new" race.

    Vampire Count and Tomb Kings can still get a few missing interesting undead units in their lord packs in game 3. We don't really new new race to add these units to the game.

    If Constant Drachenfels will be legendary lord for Vampire Counts and Nagash will be legendary lord for Tomb Kings. We will don't really need Nagash race at all.

    If we will not get Nagash race. Dieter Helsnicht and Walach Harkon will be only loss. But Heinrich Kemmler and Red Duke already have their role in the game.

    The difference is Thanquol isn't that much different from other Grey Seers and even in End Times. Skreech is just the main Verminlord.

    Both are different from a literal ascending God.

    Putting Nagash into Tomb Kings is stupid because NO Tomb King wants anything to do with him (since he's the fault they are undead). Putting Nagash into Vampire Counts is also stupid because NO vampire wants to lose their freedom from being controlled (his Mortarches each had a reason to join).

    Constant Drachenfels both uses daemons and undead...Why would Vampire Counts fit him?
    Can you stop with **** god thing he is not one in whfb

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • IvantheTerrible52IvantheTerrible52 Registered Users Posts: 64
    Does Dieter Helsnicht have the stature to be a LL next to Nagash, Drachenfels, and Wallach Harkon?

    I’d rather have W’soran as the fourth LL
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,785
    edited May 12
    Amonkhet said:

    saweendra said:

    Ok lets actually design a race than just putting every thing together


    First main theme of Army

    Necromancy but more refined version of it. so much more elite army with limited range options and less support and mortis auras




    LL and game play mechanic

    In end times he before resuurected powered up by killing and devoring powerful beings like Volkmar, fay , tyrions daughter and Valaya

    Nameless campaign focus should be capturing volkmar
    Dieters capturing Tyrion's daughter
    Mallabaudes capturing fay since it was he who captured her in lore with arkahan
    Nagash him self capture of valaya


    Lords
    Morghast lord : monstrous support lord why because nagash corrupted them to lead his Armies

    skeleton caster : follower of nagash that ended up as undead
    Lore of nagash , vampires, Metal , and death ( why metal to clearly make them different from other 3 undead races, counts have shadows , Tk have light so..)

    Heroes
    Black grail paladin
    Liche caster
    cain wrath hero


    units

    Infantry now the other three dead factions are pretty chaff heavy

    Nagashizzar Guard higher armor( 70 to 90 ) and stats than regular skeletons units but MA and MD should be less than tomb guard so they can be in lower price range as main infantry of nagash race. two varients sword and sheild and dual weapons

    Mid tier options Cain Wraiths or eatheral units which will be the main focus of the army

    two weapon varients dual weapons to function like eatheral death runners and helberd to function like eshin triads


    high tier options

    Superior Syreen/banshee ( a female ghost ) version something with bigger AoE debuff than syreens

    Dismounted black grail knights as elite shield and sword infantry


    Ranged infantry Limited

    Eatheral peasent bowmen as ap ranged


    no Artiellary



    flying Monstours infantry and cavalry

    Morghast versions with sword and shield, dual weapons, halberd center piece units



    Carion Riders with bows



    Cavalry ::

    Nagashizzar Guard cavalry sowrd and spear Mp cost around 900

    Nagashizzar Guard chariots around 1000 points better armour than skelton chariots


    Hex wraiths with helberds
    hex wraiths with sword with Bv inffantry

    so no general purpose hexwraiths one anti infantry other AL .



    elite cav option
    Black grail knights mirror grail knights and gurdians of brets so lance and sword and board verisons


    No skrimish cav or honds


    Big SEMs and mounts

    Dread abysal
    incarnate element of death

    Mallobaude wasn't a Mortarch.
    He was working for or to be precise the puppet of the most loyal mortarch arkhan the black.

    And most Mortarch should stay in thier orginal races if arkahan stayed there is noo **** reason any other should move unless their less important to the race
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,679

    Does Dieter Helsnicht have the stature to be a LL next to Nagash, Drachenfels, and Wallach Harkon?

    I’d rather have W’soran as the fourth LL

    I'd say yes. For one, we need one more proper Necromancer, aside of Nagash himself and Chaos-Kemmler and C-List Ghorst. He also has a Manticore Mount!

    His ooooold model


    He has items...

    Staff of Flaming Death - The eyes of the Staff of Flaming Death glow bright with magical fire as its jaws clatter and gnash constantly.[1b][2a]

    Chaos Runesword - This weapon was forged by Grungni Ironheart, a Dwarf Runesmith who was corrupted and led astray by the Chaos gods.[1b][2a]

    Power Scroll - This scroll is imbued with great magical power which can be released when it is read aloud.[2a]

    which might need some renaming tbh...
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
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