Lui Bei Vassal of Cao Cao diplomacy question

Loringthegreat

So I love playing Sun Jian in 190. It's my favorite campaign and Character. However, every time I reach the Duchy Rank I always end up with Cao Cao vassalizing Lui Bei.

Cao Cao is the Duchy of Wei, which I know I know you're supposed to take out Cao Cao immediately.

That being said I can't get Lui Bei to want to become independent. It's a 87 diplomacy cost and the only way he will accept is for massive amounts of money and territory. The primary driver is because he actually likes Cao Cao.

Is there a way I can get Lui Bei to not like Cao Cao so I can support his independence?

kaihoo#1230

In my Sun Jian game, I defeated Cao Cao early. Liu Bei then became one of the Three Kingdoms and offered to confederate with me. Having a good diplomatic relationship with him does help.

Misaka_Complex

You are better off vassalizing Liu Bei before Cao Cao can do it. Expand eastwards as Sun Jian to do this.

Vin362#6699

One thing you can try to do is build up your economic and military strength once the balance of power starts to lean in your favour Liu Bei's opinion of independence will increase.

Rewan#2358

Liu Bei has diplomatic traits that typically prevent him from declaring independance. Basically you would have to tank Cao Cao very very much for him to even consider it.

Basically the real play is pretty much to get to King, get Emperorship and then vassalize Liu Bei. (unless he gets the third seat which is usually really fun if he's a vassal since he will automatically declare war on his overlord)

bli-nk#6314

Rewan said:

Liu Bei has diplomatic traits that typically prevent him from declaring independance. Basically you would have to tank Cao Cao very very much for him to even consider it.

Basically the real play is pretty much to get to King, get Emperorship and then vassalize Liu Bei. (unless he gets the third seat which is usually really fun if he's a vassal since he will automatically declare war on his overlord)

Yep, Liu Bei should either be vassalized early or you will have to beat down the vassal master for Liu Bei to be released and then hopefully get him to become a vassal the very same turn. He is one of the few vassals it makes sense to give territory to as you can be 95% or better sure he will remain a vassal so long as your power is greater and you call him into every war.

Do not get Liu Bei into the same coalition because you won't be able to vassalize him and some other faction will vassalize him out of the coalition.