Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Adorbs

Desync Reminder and Acknowledgement Thread

HeroicSpurHeroicSpur MemberPosts: 57Registered Users
Dear All,

This thread is intended to remind CA of the pressing importance of resolving the desync issue. I would ask anyone who is affected by it to post here, regardless of your feelings on whether CA will answer.

The purpose of this thread is not to act as a platform for expressions of anger and hostility, it is clear that has got us nowhere, consider this more of a last petition, lest this issue be well and truly brushed under the carpet.

In light of the (not quite so) recent policy of selectively ignoring genuine requests for further information in respect of desyncs, and not so much as even mentioning desyncs in weekly updates, it has become increasingly apparent that the desync issue is unlikely to be resolved any time soon or at all.

This is a last effort to change that. I purchased Shogun 2 (x2!) exclusively for the purpose of playing the co-op campaign, and I'm sure many of you did too, or at least want(ed) to play the multiplayer campaign in some bearable capacity. It's not OK for this to go unresolved.

Even if you don't think CA will listen, post, at least to show that you care that you've been deprived (in all but name) of an advertised feature you paid for.


It has been said plenty of times, but to restate the issue:-
-Desync errors occur in a number of different cases, they appear more likely to occur in conducting some activities than others (e.g. diplomacy)
-The issue can be 'worked around' to a limited extent by transferring save games, however this is time consuming and tedious, both in transferring large files and having to save every turn/refighting battles etc. It is usually necessary to do this with increasing frequency after the first desync. There are occassions when transferring save games will not work around the desync.
-This makes the multiplayer campaign practically unplayable, a significant time investment can be washed away in an instant
Post edited by HeroicSpur on
«1

Comments

  • RemairRemair Member Posts: 32Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I'll add my voice to this. I bought shogun 2 not purely for the co-op but it was a major contributing factor. A relative bought the game purely in order to play with myself and has not touched any other aspect of it. I bought the game at launch and since that time I have not yet managed to complete a single multiplayer campaign, every time we get so bogged down transfering save files that the game becomes unplayable.

    And the official "solution"? Start a new campaign as soon as a single desync occurs. That is completely unacceptable, no other game would post that as a serious solution to a game destroying crash. With no further fixes in patches since the one accompanying RoS failed to solve the issue it seems very much like CA have written off the co-op, treating it like a gimick rather than a core part game.

    And yes, I completely agree that CA and Craig's selective blindness when it comes to reading the multitude of requests for further information is unprofessional and unacceptable. When developers respond to jokes and side comments in threads but blankly refuse to even confirm they are still working on this issue it really makes me, as a customer, feel completely unwanted.

    I have not purchased a single DLC, nor do I intend to purchase FoS. This is not a boycott, but simply that I will not spend any more money on a blatantly faulty product. If CA do fix this issue then overnight you will have my money for all DLCs and the expansion, until then... no. I have owned every single total war game since I was hooked on shogun when it first came out. I thought the savefile corruption in Empire at launch was disgraceful but at least you treated that as a genuine issue and repaired it.

    So please, CA, Craig... Either confirm that this issue is still being worked on (preferably with some kind of timescale, or at least an estimate of how many people are dedicated to this project), or issue a full apology for advertising a broken feature and remove all reference of the co-op campaign from all your trailers/adverts/product-descriptions.

    You used to be in my top 3 development companies of all time...
  • Nicklaus CANicklaus CA Creative Assembly Posts: 2,138CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    edited December 2011
    Hi, thank you for the helpful post. :)
    I just wanted to let you know we are still working on the MPC desync issue, which has been extremely tricky to nail down.
    As we've said before, there are any number of things that can trigger a desync, and getting to the bottom of each case takes time. But any diagnostic information you (and everyone else in these forums) supply helps us to find the issues and resolve them at source. We're not ignoring these issues, we're just busy working on them.
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.

    Quick solutions to common FotS problems :
    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/35425-PLEASE-READ-Common-issues-for-FotS-and-how-to-solve-them-(Updated-26-03-2012)
  • RemairRemair Member Posts: 32Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Thank you Nicklaus. I can honestly say I am happily suprised by how fast you came back with a response. I am glad you are still working on it at least. As I said, if you do fix this issue then you will get my money for DLC and my gratitude :) Here's hoping...
  • DribbsDribbs Senior Member Posts: 1,266Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Thanks for the response Nicklaus.
    Most de-syncs that I've experienced have tended to occur when there has been multiple diplomatic activity.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 57Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I too really appreciate your post Nicklaus. After over a couple of months without a single word said in respect of the issue, you can probably understand why we were beginning to feel you had given up on us.

    While the ultimate remedy is always going to be the fix, and hence we can only be so optimistic until that time (or until we have concrete knowledge of fixes), your acknowledgment has gone some way to restoring faith, thank you.
  • lord_allord_al Member Posts: 64Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Nicklaus,

    I would like to make a suggestion that instead of pooling your resources in to new projects, DLC, expansions etc that you get more staff on the issue 9 months and the same answer or excuse whichever way you want to look at it.

    If you have no staff experienced in this area you need to hire more. I would also like to hear your thoughts on pulling co-op from the features list until its fixed.
    i5 2500k
    MSI 560 TI 1GB
    1TB 7200 HD
    4GB RAM
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 57Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I am really just as annoyed as you Lord Al about desync, but removing co-op from their advertising is never going to be realistic, not to mention that that would be a decision of the publishers who are responsible for marketing. The same applies to staff allocation. I do agree with you in principle though.
    As for getting a faster solution/getting CA to take it more seriously, that was the purpose of this thread, the more people who post, naturally the more CA will do. Demanding/suggesting they restructure their business/team probably isn't going to achieve that effect.
  • TobinTobin Member Posts: 32Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I am also very dissapointed about the not working mpc. Bought the game most for playing with a friend but even nearly a year after release, this, a really big part of the game is totaly unplayable, that is bad CA!

    But i understand that the problem is hard to fix otherwise it would ben fixed in some of the current patches. Hope you can solve it for shogun II. Just DONT release next TW title with unplayable, i dont understand 2 games in the row with the same gamebreaking problem. PLease at least fix it to the next title.
  • huntermrghuntermrg Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Hi all,

    Just to say that i have the same problem, i tried many times playing this game in co-op with my friends and after turn 20 or 30 desinc... so im just playing the single player now.

    One of the best things about this game was the multiplayer co-op CA and you failed to fix this issue, i just hope it will be fixed in the next patch, im the proud owner of a videogame shop called (EXTREMEGAMER) when my clients asks me if Shogun 2 is a good choice to play multyplayer i just say DONT BUY NOW WAIT UNTIL ITS FIXED, YES I SELL YOUR GAMES.
  • insolentfoolinsolentfool Junior Member Posts: 17Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I have had extensive experience with the desync bug since the game came out. Pretty much the whole reason i wanted this game was to play with a friend of mine and we have clocked up about 300 hours trying to play coop. we have finished 3 or 4 games out of dozens, most recently with the release of the rise of the samurai and the patch that "fixed" the desyncs.

    I would agree with earlier posters that diplomacy has an effect on the desyncs, the first thing that comes to mind is we seemed to have less issues with lower difficulties then the higher ones. Any desyncs we had in the earlier days were pretty much fixed by transferring files allowing us to finish a few games. More recently though file transfer seems to be useless. Two reasons for this I can think of is that perhaps the DLC or maybe even the attempts at patching the desync bug has rendered this solution useless.

    The reason I believe that desyncs may occur is that on harder difficulties diplomacy is more important. You are required to trade, talk and shift alliances more often then on lower difficulties where you can just pick a fight with everyone. Shifting alliances "teleports" troops around the map during the end turn. The most common issue we come across is armies in different locations, which either means that the ai on each computer is working with different information or makes a different decision. Ai is also more active and agressive on harder difficulties, moving armies and taking over more territories. Every action increases the number of variables and its safe to say a harder ai will do more, thus making desyncing more likely. We wanted to finish a game on legendary, but due to the desync bug and not being able to "hard save" it makes it much harder to keep a "clean" copy of the save game like we did with easier difficulties. If there is any scanning tools CA has developed to check if a game is corrupt this could be used to quickly scan through the saves to check just how far back you have to revert to. An option to disable the autosave only setting in legendary would help a bit.

    I have uploaded 3 different saves from 3 different games that were corrupted, unfortunately due to these being on legendary there is no "clean" versions of these saves to compare against.

    http://www.2shared.com/file/3zVNOqYj/TWautosaves.html

    I really hope you guys can fix this error. I've bought every total war up to this point, and want to continue to do so. I would not have spent so many hours on a game with such a large bug if i didn't love everything else about it so much.

    Feel free to PM me if you wish to pick my brains about the save files or anything else.
  • StrategistStrategist Junior Member Posts: 16Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    I also have this issue. I've been snooping around here since launch, waiting for a solution.

    Thanks so much Nicklaus for finally speaking up. I think everyone wanted somebody to acknowledge the problem, and confirm they are working on a solution.

    You really should try to get the group to sell this to the corporate overlords as a way to expand the sales for the DLC, and retain repeat customers. There is money to be made here, even though I hate that this has to be the reason to fix this issue faster.
  • cvchcvch Senior Member Posts: 138Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Oh please just solve it already...
  • IceciroIceciro Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited December 2011
    Quite frankly I don't see why you don't allow us to transfer the savegames to the other players rather than relying on each computer pulling its own personal save data. A simple option that checks for desynchs and then "resynchs" by moving all the relevant data from the host to the client should resolve the issue, at least in a kludgy way, while you track down what causes the actual desynchronization of actions.

    As a modder/coder for the Civilization series I can understand that desynchs are tricky because it only takes one action to throw the RNG out of whack in a way that might be hard to puzzle out down the line, but fixing desynchs in a way that permits the game to continue is a good temp solution...
  • tacosupreme13tacosupreme13 Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Hi,

    the only reason i bought this game was to play multiplayer mode. Unfortunately, since launch, my friend and myself were never able to complete a co-op campaing. Always have desync issues after 30-40 turns. spent so much time on the game for nothing...
    ill give a try on the save game transfert.

    but should not have to do that when you pay for a game that's advertise otherwise.

    ...
  • fixthisgamefixthisgame Banned Posts: 2Banned Users
    edited January 2012
    Iceciro wrote: »
    Quite frankly I don't see why you don't allow us to transfer the savegames to the other players rather than relying on each computer pulling its own personal save data. A simple option that checks for desynchs and then "resynchs" by moving all the relevant data from the host to the client should resolve the issue, at least in a kludgy way, while you track down what causes the actual desynchronization of actions.

    As a modder/coder for the Civilization series I can understand that desynchs are tricky because it only takes one action to throw the RNG out of whack in a way that might be hard to puzzle out down the line, but fixing desynchs in a way that permits the game to continue is a good temp solution...

    Dear CA plz do what this person has said. Or please hire him he seems a lot smarter than anyone else you guys have.
  • DribbsDribbs Senior Member Posts: 1,266Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    All we seem to get from CA/SEGA is the old chestnut 'we are working on a fix'. Sigh.
  • mrtspencemrtspence Junior Member Posts: 28Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Desynchs ruin every multiplayer campaign I have tried to play.

    Gotta love shoddy pre-release testing and disdain for a polished product.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 57Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Two key factors (among others) are instrumental in winning any battle, numbers and morale. We need to show both if we are going to prod CA hard enough to prioritise fixing this.
  • JewrusalemJewrusalem Member Posts: 79Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Fix this bug before the next DLC and I'll gladly buy it.
    To CA : please make it better.
  • TheelTheel Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    I personally feel Shogun 2 is THE best strategy game in the last 10 years. But this issue needs to be fixed 100%. I don't care if the network code needs to be rewritten. I'm not buying a DLC until the issue is fixed. My friends and I don't play this game because of this issue. I've put in over 100 hours of single player and prob less than 10 multiplayer because of desync. That is significant because I don't really ever play single-player anymore. A game that gets me to play single-player is a very special game. If desync was gone I would have probably played 500+ hours in multiplayer and recommended the game to many more friends. So just saying this fix would probably increase Shogun2 sales two fold.
  • EvilsToyEvilsToy Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Just 1 small question to CA.

    Will FOTS fix desync problems or no??? If Yes - me and many of my friends will buy it. If No - we will not buy it. Pretty much simple. Really when buying ROTS i thought that desync is fixed. I'm willing to play it only with my friends in co-op campaign. Asking just not to get more embarrassed with CA. Pls tell us right now about it, wasted too much money on non-working game already.
  • rayrox222rayrox222 Senior Member Posts: 335Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    It's very discouraging. I had repeated desyncs in a coop campaign with a friend last night we just gave up and started a new head to head one hoping we won't get unlucky. Either things eventually don't match up with what's happening on the campaign map or naval battles specifically desync and one player disconnects. Only solution is to dig up the save file hidden in a folder quite hard to find, email that to whom you're playing and have the person replace their old save.

    CA if desyncs are too hard to fix completely with I'm sure the many places the code could go wrong, could you not offer in the games ui a "force sync to host" solution instead of crashing? Allow the hosts save game file to be copied to the joined players pc. Yes I'm aware the save files are quite large and it may be several minutes of downloading on even a good cable/dsl connection, but this is so much more convenient than digging up the save file, emailing it, and having the other person copy it to the right directory.
  • larryandboblarryandbob Junior Member Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    EvilsToy wrote: »
    Just 1 small question to CA.

    Will FOTS fix desync problems or no??? If Yes - me and many of my friends will buy it. If No - we will not buy it. Pretty much simple. Really when buying ROTS i thought that desync is fixed. I'm willing to play it only with my friends in co-op campaign. Asking just not to get more embarrassed with CA. Pls tell us right now about it, wasted too much money on non-working game already.
    of course it won't work, they're never going to fix it
  • EvilsToyEvilsToy Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    TBH I am ready to pay 5$ for DLC that will 100% remove desync. And that is not a joke.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 57Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    I think the worst thing about the desync bug is that Shogun 2 is such a good game. It's almost taunting that you can play such an excellent game co-operatively, only to get robbed by the desync bug. If Shogun 2 wasn't a good game, people wouldn't really care about this bug. Ultimately we want to have our cake (which we paid for) and eat it.

    With that, I have to once again ask if there has been any meaningful progress in respect of the issue. We have been told it's hard to nail down since day 1, but never anything more. As for EvilsToy's comment above, I'm at the stage where I would agree with that.
  • QuaylemanQuayleman Member Posts: 56Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    I'll add my voice to the crowd. I convinced my friend to buy the game specifically for this purpose. He loves it, but we keep running into the desync issue. We can reload an older save, but that only delays the inevitable next desync.

    The only time we've noticed an observable desync was when my friend tried to sabotage some castle gates. I laughed because I saw his ninja die, but he actually received a success message. The desync crashed us a couple turns later. Because we had seen the ninja, we knew to load the save on the turn before that event. We were able to play for a bunch more turns after that, but it eventually happened again.

    It would be helpful to know what information the CA staff would like us to report. Are you looking for technical information or the in game situation when the desync occured?
  • fixthisgamefixthisgame Banned Posts: 2Banned Users
    edited January 2012
    CA has no respect for its customers good luck with this. IF they do they have a very messed up way of showing it.
  • shrspeedbladeshrspeedblade Senior Member Posts: 313Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Iceciro wrote: »
    Quite frankly I don't see why you don't allow us to transfer the savegames to the other players rather than relying on each computer pulling its own personal save data. A simple option that checks for desynchs and then "resynchs" by moving all the relevant data from the host to the client should resolve the issue, at least in a kludgy way, while you track down what causes the actual desynchronization of actions.

    As a modder/coder for the Civilization series I can understand that desynchs are tricky because it only takes one action to throw the RNG out of whack in a way that might be hard to puzzle out down the line, but fixing desynchs in a way that permits the game to continue is a good temp solution...

    Another thing this would do would be allow us to continue a campaign with someone else than the original person we started with if they are unwilling/unable to continute it, which would be a HUGE PLUS and is really how it should have been set up in the first place.

    I am a very loyal customer since Shogun I, but will break that streak with FOTS if this is issue is not resolved, and will not buy it until it is.
    <---- That's how I look after all the NTW I've played!
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 12,271Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    Problem with desyncs is that there's no way to prevent them from happening right now. An actual fix would be solving this problem. Any other solution simply deals with the symptoms (the actual desynchronizing), like overriding one player's savegames- sooner or later it will happen again.

    TLDR the REAL problem is that it happens in the first place; the best solution is to simply prevent it from happening. Any other solution is simply temporary- if it doesn't desync now, it will simply desync later.
    How to install Steam games without downloading
    How to post DXDiag: Windows+R key, type "dxdiag" in the input box. Select Save All Information, and attach as [/code]
    in your post Baldrick: "I heard the Great War started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich because he was hungry."[/SIZE][code] in your post
    Baldrick: "I heard the Great War started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich because he was hungry."
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 57Registered Users
    edited January 2012
    I agree with you Daelin4, but I think the main problem is that a lot of people are beginning to suspect that there will simply not be a fix (possibly because CA are unable to do so, or it would require a disproportionate amount of resources). I think the suggestions are intended to help mitigate the problem with a system that might be relatively simple to institute (then again it might not), rather than getting nothing at all.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.