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Lizardmen might not show in WH3

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  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 926
    If you’ve expended the Lizardmen in Warhammer 2, the best you are gonna get is an FLC Lord in Warhammer 3 a few years in. If Skink Oracles are part of the pack (think how Archmages and Arcane Phoenix with White Lions tacked onto Eltharion) then there is no way LM are getting a Lord pack. There is just no reason.

    Thematically, it is a travesty to not have Lizardmen showcase against Daemons, and perhaps the biggest missed opportunity next to not, in the very least, giving us an FLC dwarf lord along side a Skaven Lord pack
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 3,928
    In that case Nakai needs to be reworked, cult of sotek sacrifices need to be changed with the rors being moved. Gemonatic web needs a rework, Slann need the missing lores, and sacred spawning needs a rework.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 926

    In that case Nakai needs to be reworked, cult of sotek sacrifices need to be changed with the rors being moved. Gemonatic web needs a rework, Slann need the missing lores, and sacred spawning needs a rework.

    Honestly, Nakai needs to have a campaign overhaul in game 3. The feud with Marcus needs to be a game 2 exclusive. When game 3 rolls out and Daemons are abound, those two need to be fighting Chaos.

    Hell: you could even transition Marcus over to Taurox, have those two duking it out, and then rework Oxy and Nakai over to the Daemons
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 5,036
    This doesn't confirm Norsca as the first LP or anything like that, it just confirms CA thinking the same way as the fanbase: Norsca is one of the most 'outdated' races out there. A priority doesn't necessarily mean top-priority.

    I think this definitely increases the chances of a Norscan LP, but it says nothing about the timeframe.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 926
    Folks should halfway expect Norsca to be reworked as a general “Chaos Tribes” faction with Kurgan and Hung just having slightly different rosters, but part of the overall umbrella. Mammoths and Ice trolls being Norsca LL locked, some higher tier Horsemen being Hung locked, and some bust your face up infantry being Kurgan locked. Something in that arena
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,964
    Pocman said:

    A lizardmen LP is extremely unlikely.

    They simply don't have content left to justify it, and this just confirm that.

    They already have their full roster in game. Any additions would either make the race less unique (archer skinks), are not really needed (Culchan riders, which may come in this one). Arcanadon? It's just a smaller terrosaurus (well, it does not have an official model, but that's how the ocnversion looked) with a engine of the gods. The engine is already in game. Thunder lizard? CA has already ruled out that possibility. There is nothing left. Plus, lizardmen already have 3 or 4 "original" units: ancient salamander, kroxigorillas, horned ones, plus stalkers and the Coatzl.

    The only thing missing from their 8th edition army book is Tettoeko, a fairly uninteresting lord that could easily be added in a character only pack.

    The only core wh2 race i can see getting some extras are the skaven, and, maybe, maybe, the HE.


    And is not like we will run of content soon. We still need at least 3 lord packs for game 3 races, and 2 campaign packs, plus a preorder, plus crossover dlcs with vamps and dwarfs, plus WoC and Norsca reworks and lord packs, before even thinking of revisitting game 2 races.

    May it happen? Well, if the game is still popular in 5 years... but i don't think so. I would prefer them putting their effort into minor races if the game continues for so long.

    There is a big difference between 'X is less important than Y' and 'X does not exist'. If TWW wraps up and the likes of Arcanodons and Great Wyrms aren't included (but the Coatl and Troglodon are), I don't think anyone will break out the pitchforks. But if they do decide that they want a fourth LM LP sometime in the future, the content is there. Fitting in the important stuff now gives them options - they can either make future LM DLC in game 3 or not depending on the needs of the time.

    This is in contrast to, say, High Elves, which have a clear space left for one more LP but probably won't have material left after that. So that's probably going to be kept for one last polish late in game 3.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,513
    Marker said:

    They allready getting new mechanics and TBH, a lot of different Lords have different playstyles, starting positions, campaigns victory conditions or even rites now.

    Lizardmen will probably see a FLC Lord in TWW3 with MAYBE a unit / variant but that is it, they are looking to finish the Race DLC wise in game two.

    The Lizardmen campaign mechanics are lacklustre, and both deserve and require proper overhaul.

    As for the LP in Game3. I want one. And there's room for one.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 926

    Marker said:

    They allready getting new mechanics and TBH, a lot of different Lords have different playstyles, starting positions, campaigns victory conditions or even rites now.

    Lizardmen will probably see a FLC Lord in TWW3 with MAYBE a unit / variant but that is it, they are looking to finish the Race DLC wise in game two.

    The Lizardmen campaign mechanics are lacklustre, and both deserve and require proper overhaul.

    As for the LP in Game3. I want one. And there's room for one.
    Not really. But Korhil might show up in game 3 as FLC. There is definitely no real “room” for him as a Lord pack headliner. There is no real room left for Lizardmen to get a lord pack, and at best would just get an FLC unit (much like how Empire was still getting FLC mages well into WH2)
  • DragonbroodlingsDragonbroodlings Registered Users Posts: 179

    Marker said:

    They allready getting new mechanics and TBH, a lot of different Lords have different playstyles, starting positions, campaigns victory conditions or even rites now.

    Lizardmen will probably see a FLC Lord in TWW3 with MAYBE a unit / variant but that is it, they are looking to finish the Race DLC wise in game two.

    The Lizardmen campaign mechanics are lacklustre, and both deserve and require proper overhaul.

    As for the LP in Game3. I want one. And there's room for one.
    Yeah, the worst part of their mechanics is the geomantic web. Literally a win-more type of mechanic that is extremely not interactive. When I was first playing the game, I didn't even realize that it was a race specific ability. It's that bad.

    As a lizardmen main, I would love another lord pack, but I also would not be upset if we don't get another one as long they include the Troglodon in this LP. For game 2 races there are still needs for Skaven and High Elves to compete their 8th edition stuff. And there are a couple of things missing from Dwarfs and Vampires from 8th if I remember correctly. Tons of legendary lords and legendary heroes are missing from almost every roster too.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,513

    Marker said:

    They allready getting new mechanics and TBH, a lot of different Lords have different playstyles, starting positions, campaigns victory conditions or even rites now.

    Lizardmen will probably see a FLC Lord in TWW3 with MAYBE a unit / variant but that is it, they are looking to finish the Race DLC wise in game two.

    The Lizardmen campaign mechanics are lacklustre, and both deserve and require proper overhaul.

    As for the LP in Game3. I want one. And there's room for one.
    Not really. But Korhil might show up in game 3 as FLC. There is definitely no real “room” for him as a Lord pack headliner. There is no real room left for Lizardmen to get a lord pack, and at best would just get an FLC unit (much like how Empire was still getting FLC mages well into WH2)
    Hm? Korhil? I said nothing on the HE subject. That being said, him I see doing what he does best, bodyguarding that is.

    Assuming that the LM will get Coatl and Troglodon in the upcoming LP, then Arcanodons, Great Wyrms, Culchan Riders and even Thunder Lizards can come in the next one in Game3.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 5,036
    Lizardmen could still get something yearssssss in the future. FLC? DLC? No clue, totally depends on the sales and longevtiy of the series. But it's not an impossibility.
  • ArchRangerArchRanger Registered Users Posts: 153

    Amonkhet said:

    That'd be 2+ years for 1 or 2 of the warhammer 3 core's to get their FIRST post-launch LL. That won't happen.

    That's what must be done to get all the Old World and Vortex updates still needed. 4 Vampire Bloodlines, atleast 2 Dwarf, Empire and Greenskin DLCs. Rework DLCs to Undivided and Norsca. And updates for Tomb Kings, High Elves and possibly Dark Elves. Skaven with Thanquol confirmed.
    The harsh reality people are going to have to face is that not all of the WH1 races are going to get the same love and attention as the others. VC ain’t going to get 4 new LLs, Empire and Dwarfs aren’t going to get 2+ LPs despite their missing rosters, etc etc. Empire, despite being the most popular race, still hasn’t received its FLC LL nearly 6 years later so this misconception that CA need and *will* push our boat loads of content for them just isn’t true.

    The truth is WH1 was made under a much smaller scope and with different expectations for the trilogy than what we got that with WH2 and with WH3. It’s why we got things like Vlad/Isabella split or Ghorst rather than fleshing out the bloodlines and no effort towards a Empire FLC (despite Toddy being a easy answer), and all Dwarf LLs being relatively the same.

    Expectations should be drawn back. Rather than expect 4 new LLs for VC, plan for just Neferata and possibly FLC Red Duke, as these are what CA has commented on. For Empire, expect only Toddy and one Empire LP rather than multiple packs. For Dwarfs, probably only getting one LP since CA chose to skip them in WH2. Greenskinz might not even get anything in WH3, despite missing units and LLs, since hobgoblins might be a thing and if not, Ogres fill a similar role (just like TK and VP filled the undead role in WH2 making VC easier to skip). Beastmen, WE, and potentially the entire WH2 races outside Skaven might not get anything either. It’s just how things go unfortunately, despite how much we all want content.

    WH3 is about the new 6 races (+1 preorder race) and we know there are multiple race packs coming (CD, Ogres, and at least one unknown Eastern race) and the fact is, resources are limited and Sega will only allot so much time and money for CA until the team moves to their next fantasy game. You saying they need 10 DLCs for VC, Empire, and Dwarfs along with DLCs for WoC, Norsca, HE, and everyone else is just not grounded in reality unless CA drops LPs and comes up with LL packs. Not impossible but not likely either since they avoid discussing it.

    Hope for the best, expect the worst. Don’t ride the imaginary hype train to the land of unrealistic expectations. 14+ DLCs dedicated to WH1/2 definitely lands in that realm.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 4,435
    I mean, the "final" here describe the fact that the newt DLC will be the last for WH2, not necessarily the last for Lizardmen.

    In fact, their precision that they wanted to get the key units out now, it does point out at the possibility that LM get some stuff in WH3, FLC or DLC
    I believe in Slaanesh supremacy
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 11,867
    Maelas said:

    I mean, the "final" here describe the fact that the newt DLC will be the last for WH2, not necessarily the last for Lizardmen.

    In fact, their precision that they wanted to get the key units out now, it does point out at the possibility that LM get some stuff in WH3, FLC or DLC

    Yeah key units might just be the Troglodon and the Coatl and if we get those there's still material to use for a lord pack although it's not looking very likely.
    #JusticeForTzeentch
    #JusticeForMonogods
  • MikobotMikobot Registered Users Posts: 114
    Nothing is final regarding whether or not LM get another DLC. In theory TWW was going to be smaller in scope, in theory Wood Elves and Beastmen were dead in the water with the content they came with. Desire for easy money will decide whether or not LM get another lord pack in the long run. TWW3 will go on for as long as its profitable and worthwhile.
  • damon40000damon40000 Registered Users Posts: 941
    yep, they wont
    BsFG dwarf
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 733

    The harsh reality people are going to have to face is that not all of the WH1 races are going to get the same love and attention as the others. VC ain’t going to get 4 new LLs, Empire and Dwarfs aren’t going to get 2+ LPs despite their missing rosters, etc etc. Empire, despite being the most popular race, still hasn’t received its FLC LL nearly 6 years later so this misconception that CA need and *will* push our boat loads of content for them just isn’t true.

    The truth is WH1 was made under a much smaller scope and with different expectations for the trilogy than what we got that with WH2 and with WH3. It’s why we got things like Vlad/Isabella split or Ghorst rather than fleshing out the bloodlines and no effort towards a Empire FLC (despite Toddy being a easy answer), and all Dwarf LLs being relatively the same.

    Expectations should be drawn back. Rather than expect 4 new LLs for VC, plan for just Neferata and possibly FLC Red Duke, as these are what CA has commented on. For Empire, expect only Toddy and one Empire LP rather than multiple packs. For Dwarfs, probably only getting one LP since CA chose to skip them in WH2. Greenskinz might not even get anything in WH3, despite missing units and LLs, since hobgoblins might be a thing and if not, Ogres fill a similar role (just like TK and VP filled the undead role in WH2 making VC easier to skip). Beastmen, WE, and potentially the entire WH2 races outside Skaven might not get anything either. It’s just how things go unfortunately, despite how much we all want content.

    WH3 is about the new 6 races (+1 preorder race) and we know there are multiple race packs coming (CD, Ogres, and at least one unknown Eastern race) and the fact is, resources are limited and Sega will only allot so much time and money for CA until the team moves to their next fantasy game. You saying they need 10 DLCs for VC, Empire, and Dwarfs along with DLCs for WoC, Norsca, HE, and everyone else is just not grounded in reality unless CA drops LPs and comes up with LL packs. Not impossible but not likely either since they avoid discussing it.

    Hope for the best, expect the worst. Don’t ride the imaginary hype train to the land of unrealistic expectations. 14+ DLCs dedicated to WH1/2 definitely lands in that realm.

    I hardly think Im being unrealistic here. Crossover DLCs doesn't just focus on the older races, just look at how much stuff the High Elves got with Warden & Paunch. And it is CA's desire to bring out the races to an as evenly balanced place as possible. Look at the state of the Empire and Dwarfs and compare them to Dark Elves and Skaven, or even Lizardmen now with atleast 7 lords. 1 LP for each is NOT enough to bring either of them up to the same standings. Both races have 2 or more distinct themes yet to be implemented in their rosters, for example the Cult of Ulric and Elspeth von Draken's Wissenland/Morr theme for the Empire, or the missing Slayer units for the Dwarfs.

    The thing with 6 core races is that it allows you to focus on both ends. Lets say 2 DLCs for each core, which is not unrealistic, that's already 12 spots to hand out. Since the Monogods only start with one, some of them could probably get more to reach upwards of 6 lords.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,355
    Some races are so complete that I doubt they may get anything other than a random FLC lord with no attached units.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,273
    Itharus said:

    Some races are so complete that I doubt they may get anything other than a random FLC lord with no attached units.

    There is actually few like that. Lizardmen comes to mind, they already started to dip into lore-only units in their second pack.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch
  • Triumph4meTriumph4me Registered Users Posts: 123



    I asked about why Oxyotl was not saved for a more loreful start in WH3 and I got this. It seems that the remaining Lizardmen content would be gotten with this DLC, meaning most likely the Coatl, Troglodon and I HOPE TO THE OLD ONES the Arcanadon too. This imo doesn't leave the Lizardmen much room in WH3 and Im really concererned now. They need a campaign mechanics overhaul, which they might not get since the focus will be on the Beastmen now.

    Where do you see the lizards not being in wh3? If you read what they said that does not give you any clue for saying lizards won't be showing in wh3 what so ever ^^'

    Example:

    Slannesh may not come to warhammer 3:

    Q. Are lions related to cats?

    A. Yes

    See? no sense at all
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 12,628



    I asked about why Oxyotl was not saved for a more loreful start in WH3 and I got this. It seems that the remaining Lizardmen content would be gotten with this DLC, meaning most likely the Coatl, Troglodon and I HOPE TO THE OLD ONES the Arcanadon too. This imo doesn't leave the Lizardmen much room in WH3 and Im really concererned now. They need a campaign mechanics overhaul, which they might not get since the focus will be on the Beastmen now.

    Where do you see the lizards not being in wh3? If you read what they said that does not give you any clue for saying lizards won't be showing in wh3 what so ever ^^'

    Example:

    Slannesh may not come to warhammer 3:

    Q. Are lions related to cats?

    A. Yes

    See? no sense at all
    The reason is simple.

    If they want to do Lizardmen now to finish off their key units, that can only mean Troglodon. The issue then, is that the two main claims to fame for Lizardmen are the Coatl and the Troglodon. Coatl is confirmed, and this essentially equates to Troglodon. In summary, they are more or less finished after this.

    Arcanadon is a strange idea but viable, and Thunder Lizards... aren't something I'd expect to ever get added, taking into account how they were described. This seems to, very likely, be it.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Triumph4meTriumph4me Registered Users Posts: 123
    Crossil said:



    I asked about why Oxyotl was not saved for a more loreful start in WH3 and I got this. It seems that the remaining Lizardmen content would be gotten with this DLC, meaning most likely the Coatl, Troglodon and I HOPE TO THE OLD ONES the Arcanadon too. This imo doesn't leave the Lizardmen much room in WH3 and Im really concererned now. They need a campaign mechanics overhaul, which they might not get since the focus will be on the Beastmen now.

    Where do you see the lizards not being in wh3? If you read what they said that does not give you any clue for saying lizards won't be showing in wh3 what so ever ^^'

    Example:

    Slannesh may not come to warhammer 3:

    Q. Are lions related to cats?

    A. Yes

    See? no sense at all
    The reason is simple.

    If they want to do Lizardmen now to finish off their key units, that can only mean Troglodon. The issue then, is that the two main claims to fame for Lizardmen are the Coatl and the Troglodon. Coatl is confirmed, and this essentially equates to Troglodon. In summary, they are more or less finished after this.

    Arcanadon is a strange idea but viable, and Thunder Lizards... aren't something I'd expect to ever get added, taking into account how they were described. This seems to, very likely, be it.
    Well but the fact that the lizards wont get a dlc in game 3 any time soon does not mean that in the game 3 "mortal empires" they wont be apearing.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 6,933

    Crossil said:



    I asked about why Oxyotl was not saved for a more loreful start in WH3 and I got this. It seems that the remaining Lizardmen content would be gotten with this DLC, meaning most likely the Coatl, Troglodon and I HOPE TO THE OLD ONES the Arcanadon too. This imo doesn't leave the Lizardmen much room in WH3 and Im really concererned now. They need a campaign mechanics overhaul, which they might not get since the focus will be on the Beastmen now.

    Where do you see the lizards not being in wh3? If you read what they said that does not give you any clue for saying lizards won't be showing in wh3 what so ever ^^'

    Example:

    Slannesh may not come to warhammer 3:

    Q. Are lions related to cats?

    A. Yes

    See? no sense at all
    The reason is simple.

    If they want to do Lizardmen now to finish off their key units, that can only mean Troglodon. The issue then, is that the two main claims to fame for Lizardmen are the Coatl and the Troglodon. Coatl is confirmed, and this essentially equates to Troglodon. In summary, they are more or less finished after this.

    Arcanadon is a strange idea but viable, and Thunder Lizards... aren't something I'd expect to ever get added, taking into account how they were described. This seems to, very likely, be it.
    Well but the fact that the lizards wont get a dlc in game 3 any time soon does not mean that in the game 3 "mortal empires" they wont be apearing.
    I don't think the argument was ever that they won't literally appear in game 3, I think the concern was that they wouldn't be updated after this next DLC.

    I personally think there is a good chance that this is the last LM pack, but as to updates in general for one we will have to see what comes in this pack (we may get a minor LM rework that solves their issues), but even if they don't get an update there is nothing to say that they won't get a rework in game 3. We have had reworks not coming with LPs before, there is no absolute need to link a rework to a DLC update (though it makes sense to do it like that when possible).
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