Wood Elves in WH3 - 2nd LP/5th & 6th lords

TheWattman

The Twisted & Twilight went a long way to both updating the Wood Elves to WH2 status and also to conplete the overall roster. Major characters were added and the number of lords was increased to 4. However, as the Lizardmen are about to show, the number of lords are only destined to increase over the game's lifecycle and that raises the question of what further updates the Wood Elves can expect in WH3. First and foremost, there is no need for another massive update like T&T, unless WH3 factions prove immensly superior to the current races. But rather the quality of a regular crossgame DLC would be perfectly sufficient, in addition to FLC for old DLC owners.

So what do the Wood Elves still have left to offer?

Well at first glance, not very much. Looking at 8th edition, its nearly complete and the only missing things are the Shadowdancers Heroes and Araloth, the 3rd Legendary Lord of 8th edition. Oh and some sergeant variants similar to Bladesingers of course, but nothing major. This situation persists looking further back in earlier additions and the foremost thing that I can find that could fit in would be the Meadow Chariots mentioned back in 4th edition. Also in 4th edition come some feral monsters that fights alongside the Wood Elves, like Hippogryphs, Griffons and especially Unicorns (which we already have in-game as mounts, but not as seperate units). There are also a number of characters here to consider, but too many to get into detail here about.

However, there is another source of wood elf content as well in the lore, with the Eonir of Laurelorn forest. While they would not present a viable hybrid faction mixing Asrai and Asur units, they do contribute three things to the overall effort: A unit, a loreful location for Wood Elf playability and a character to consider for lord status, that of Queen Marrisith. The unit Im talking about are the Ghost Striders, which are deadly archers (shocker) known to never miss their targets.

Now, what do the Wood Elves lack as of right now in-game?

In a sort of strange way, the Asrai currently lack "generic" legendary lords, which means legendary elven lords, both melee and magically based. They have Orion the Skirmisher, Durthu the Monster, Drycha the Hybrid and the Ranged Sisters and thus, they need a regular footlord and a pure spellcaster, even though Ariel fulfills this role quite handsomely in hero form.

Thing is, one of these lackings are easily solved, while the other is a somewhat fundamental problem for the future. Araloth fits the melee footlord role beautifully, but has a rather weak argument for being a DLC lord since he's just an upgraded Glade Lord in essence. The bigger problem is finding a suitable spellcaster. Naieth the Prophetess would have been the headliner here, but she was reduced to being a mission-giving NPC in the Sisters's campaign with T&T. This I fear, rules her out atleast for the moment. And the problem is that there is no other established spellcaster anywhere among the remaining named characters.

Only 2 characters could possibly fit in this category: Either Queen Marrisith of Laurelorn or Allisara, Sister of Queen Ariel. Marrisith descends from Aenarion and is mentioned to both have a connection to the spirits of the surrounding forest, as well as having forseen a great chaos invasion a decade ahead. This would make her similar to Everqueen Alarielle in some form and thus if interpreted a bit liberally, could be considered the spellcaster the Asrai need. As for Allisara, she was briefly the wife of Malekith and convinced Ariel to send her on an expedition of mercy to hopefully calm the ongoing civil war. This expedition was foiled by Morathi, who bewitched an Asur prince to attack the party of Asrai. Just before he killed Allisara, she uttered a spell to break his enchantment. Having the magical power to break a spell set by Morathi certainly would imply serious skill and ability and another plus is that her lore comes also from 8th edition, which theoretically could give her an edge over Marrisith.

So to summarize, here is what we are working with for the Wood Elves in WH3:

Primary legendary lord candidates: Araloth and Marrisith/Allisara

Other named characters to consider: Amadri Ironbark the Tree-Kin Lord, Lothlann the Brave, Scarloc the Wanderer, Skaw the Falconer, Thalandor Doomstar and Wychwethyl the Wild

Units: Shadowdancer (H), Meadow Chariots, various feral monsters, Ghost Striders, "unit sergeants"

What do you think guys? What should/do you think the Wood Elves will recieve in WH3?

ScionOfTheEmperor

The Wood Elves are not getting another DLC, They have pretty much all they need and honestly pretty much anything else added would be superfluous.
At the most I hope for Araloth as a FreeLC LL, But after he's added the Wood Elves will be done.

ArneSo

WE won’t get another LP. They might get Araloth as a FLC at some point but there is nothing left really for another LP.

Chora

Huge WE fan and I’d love to be wrong but this won’t happen. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment!

davedave1124

Liked - for being a purely positive set of ideas for your favourite faction.

Goatforce

They should get a FLC Araloth, that's about it, maybe a Shadowdancer alongside

DrownedHound

Didn't Ariel's sister die like a long time ago? And it's not like Grom or Repanse who at least both had TT rules and didn't really die just disappeared.

Grba

As most mentioned we need only Araloth and shadowdancers and that is it probably.

Murmurlock

No, they dont need more content. Less content = better game.

SaintCorn

If the Wood Elves got another DLC, Araloth would work or fill out certain niches like
Naieth (Not excluded) - Elf Mage Legendary Lord
Amadri Ironbark - Treekin Legendary Lord
Wychwethyl - Wardancer Legendary Lord.
Sceolan- Hybrid Ranged/Melee Lord

There's no need to revive a very dead elf whose main plot relevance is bring dead or Queen Marrisith who essentially just delegates authority to others.

"Despite having ruled the Laurelorn for centuries, Queen Marrisith is still young by the standards of Elven royalty, and therefore she delegates a great deal of authority to the High Council.[1a]"
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Marrisith

This is if the Wood Elves even get a DLC, which CA could just add Araloth and Naieth and call it a day.

Loreguy

ArneSo said:

WE won’t get another LP. They might get Araloth as a FLC at some point but there is nothing left really for another LP.

Roster is complete. Araloth with unicorns is not enough for half LP. Unless CA&GW "invent" something. Or dig more Zoats.

IMO future of WE depend on Warhammer Old World.

Chaos vs WE could be interesting matchup. And with bigger map there would be more forests.

Wyvax

I mean it's theoretically possible what with Meadow Chariots, the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts and Beasttamer units of old, which you could make a decent LP theme out of, but I'm not betting on it. I do really want Araloth as a he's a more relatable character and an all around badass from his own merit rather than being a supernatural demigod or tree person. Naiath as well for a real elven spell caster would be really good and soften the blow of Ariel not being a LL. So yeah, I'm all for it, but I don't know how likely it is.

Yannir

I think GW made a mistake in putting the Meadow Chariot in an Army Book. They don't fit the WE aesthetic or playstyle at all.

Ghost Striders are functionally the same unit as Waywatchers or Deepwood Scouts so I don't see a need for those.

Drycha already has all the "Feral" wildlife we'll ever need.

TheWattman

ScionOfTheEmperor said:

The Wood Elves are not getting another DLC, They have pretty much all they need and honestly pretty much anything else added would be superfluous.
At the most I hope for Araloth as a FreeLC LL, But after he's added the Wood Elves will be done.

ArneSo said:

WE won’t get another LP. They might get Araloth as a FLC at some point but there is nothing left really for another LP.

Im half mind of this opinion as well, I just wanted to make a deep-dive to see what would be possible or not. Its a stretch that may just be filled by FLC Araloth and Shadowdancer.

Chora said:

Huge WE fan and I’d love to be wrong but this won’t happen. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment!

davedave1124 said:

Liked - for being a purely positive set of ideas for your favourite faction.

Funny enough WE are not my favourite race, I just chose them for this perticular deep analysis.

lucibuis

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Marrisith could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LH
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

manpersal

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

Welcome back, even if I know I'll be hating most of what you'll write here.

Pocman

Unless the Old World TT games brings some kind of new units to the Wood Elves, best we can expect is Araloth as a FLC.

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

"Alisara doesn't make sense because she is a dead lore character".

"Wants Adanhu lord pack".

Pr4vda

Araloth as a FLC with maybe a free unit (meadow chariot) would be cool.

lucibuis

Pocman said:

Unless the Old World TT games brings some kind of new units to the Wood Elves, best we can expect is Araloth as a FLC.

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

"Alisara doesn't make sense because she is a dead lore character".

"Wants Adanhu lord pack".

Adanhu can be more easily retconned than Alisara, plus Alisara is a deus ex machina of the 8th edition, Adanhu is more relevant in lore

davedave1124

lucibuis said:

Pocman said:

Unless the Old World TT games brings some kind of new units to the Wood Elves, best we can expect is Araloth as a FLC.

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

"Alisara doesn't make sense because she is a dead lore character".

"Wants Adanhu lord pack".

Adanhu can be more easily retconned than Alisara, plus Alisara is a deus ex machina of the 8th edition, Adanhu is more relevant in lore

GW’s never found retconning challenging in anyway.

Djau

They MAY get another DLC, but DLC-faction wise...Warriors of Chaos, Norsca, Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast all need their first DLC first.

Pocman

lucibuis said:

Pocman said:

Unless the Old World TT games brings some kind of new units to the Wood Elves, best we can expect is Araloth as a FLC.

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

"Alisara doesn't make sense because she is a dead lore character".

"Wants Adanhu lord pack".

Adanhu can be more easily retconned than Alisara, plus Alisara is a deus ex machina of the 8th edition, Adanhu is more relevant in lore

"Complains Alisara is a deux ex machina of the 8th"
"Wants Adanhu".

lucibuis

davedave1124 said:

lucibuis said:

Pocman said:

Unless the Old World TT games brings some kind of new units to the Wood Elves, best we can expect is Araloth as a FLC.

lucibuis said:

I’m sorry but Alisara doesn’t make sense, she’s a lore character and she’s considered dead.

Mar rising could work though, creating a faction in laurelorn.

But the obvious choices are:

Araloth with
Shadowdancer hero
Meadow chariot
Arrow variants
Kinsmen
LH can be any of the older characters

Naieth (she’s only in vortex) with
Lore of Athel Loren Mages
All lores mages
Spites
Incarnate of beasts
Kelpies
Naiads
Venom dragons

Amadri (also lore only but a tree kin lord is something new) with
Adhanu LL
Pack master hero
Bears
Bobcats
Boars
Unicorn herds

"Alisara doesn't make sense because she is a dead lore character".

"Wants Adanhu lord pack".

Adanhu can be more easily retconned than Alisara, plus Alisara is a deus ex machina of the 8th edition, Adanhu is more relevant in lore

GW’s never found retconning challenging in anyway.

I mean, it’s not impossible, but is Alisara a mage? A general? She seems to be a character without fighting abilities

TheWattman

Amonkhet said:

They MAY get another DLC, but DLC-faction wise...Warriors of Chaos, Norsca, Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast all need their first DLC first.

Naturally of course, except Vampire Coast. Seperate Sartosa from the race first, then bring more vampire pirates.

MODIDDLY1

Wood elves are really only missing Araloth. They could also get Naith, but the Shadowdancer has pretty much been combined with the glade captain.

Thirdeye

Well, come-on, we're not likely to see more WE content in a long, long time, if ever.

I would like to see Araloth as a LL, but... its complicated. Araloth is the LL of Talsyn, but Orion has his big hooves all over that place, so... adding Araloth will mean a rework of Orion.

I would like to see a rework of Orion, as a Special LL (SLL), recruitable when the Oak of Ages gets a certain level. And while at it, why not rework the Wild Hunt mechanic?

I would like to see a rework of the Wild Hunt mechanic. Make it so when you recruit Orion its starts that Wild Hunt. The AI makes a full stack from all the WE armies currently in the game. This represents the WEs lusting for battle and flocking to the banner of the God who walks. By the lore Orion's army should also get something like Martial Prowess and Murderous Prowess. Once recruited the Player gets Orion and his army for a set number of turns, then Orion dies and the army disbands. After a suitable cool-down the Player can recruit Orion again.

But all this is unlikely. Even if we do get something like that you would only get the reworked Orion and Wild Hunt mechanic if you picked Araloth as your LL. The original DLC would play the same as now.

What's more likely is some rejiggering of some stats. I would like to see is Rangers get some more armor and Stag Knights getting some more mass, and generally a price drop for most units. WE units are generally over priced.

Pocman

MODIDDLY1 said:

Wood elves are really only missing Araloth. They could also get Naith, but the Shadowdancer has pretty much been combined with the glade captain.

Nah, the shadowdancer was also a mage. Plus, the captain is a hybrid ranged/anti large, so you could add the shadowdancer as the wood elven equivalent of the DE hag.

MODIDDLY1

Pocman said:

MODIDDLY1 said:

Wood elves are really only missing Araloth. They could also get Naith, but the Shadowdancer has pretty much been combined with the glade captain.

Nah, the shadowdancer was also a mage. Plus, the captain is a hybrid ranged/anti large, so you could add the shadowdancer as the wood elven equivalent of the DE hag.

My point is that the captain was a hero option with a sword and bow, and the shadow dancer is a defense heavy spear wielder with magic. The total warhammer Glade Captain is a defense heavy spear and bow wielder, that even has a talent for Loec.
CA combined the two into one hero option. You can dislike it, but with how the Glade Captain is now, the Shadowdancer won't be coming.

Maedrethnir

MODIDDLY1 said:

Pocman said:

MODIDDLY1 said:

Wood elves are really only missing Araloth. They could also get Naith, but the Shadowdancer has pretty much been combined with the glade captain.

Nah, the shadowdancer was also a mage. Plus, the captain is a hybrid ranged/anti large, so you could add the shadowdancer as the wood elven equivalent of the DE hag.

My point is that the captain was a hero option with a sword and bow, and the shadow dancer is a defense heavy spear wielder with magic. The total warhammer Glade Captain is a defense heavy spear and bow wielder, that even has a talent for Loec.
CA combined the two into one hero option. You can dislike it, but with how the Glade Captain is now, the Shadowdancer won't be coming.

There is still room for Shadow Dancer, especially considering it was always one of the most requested hero options. A good thread on the subject: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/280979/shadowdancers-from-tt-to-tww

As for the potential WE LP in Game3. There still are units that can be used to make one. Personally, I want Spites the most. Naieth and Araloth are clear choices for LLs.

karge068

I hope they get a couple of new forests to conquer on the expanded ME map, otherwise I think they are done

davedave1124

Maedrethnir said:

MODIDDLY1 said:

Pocman said:

MODIDDLY1 said:

Wood elves are really only missing Araloth. They could also get Naith, but the Shadowdancer has pretty much been combined with the glade captain.

Nah, the shadowdancer was also a mage. Plus, the captain is a hybrid ranged/anti large, so you could add the shadowdancer as the wood elven equivalent of the DE hag.

My point is that the captain was a hero option with a sword and bow, and the shadow dancer is a defense heavy spear wielder with magic. The total warhammer Glade Captain is a defense heavy spear and bow wielder, that even has a talent for Loec.
CA combined the two into one hero option. You can dislike it, but with how the Glade Captain is now, the Shadowdancer won't be coming.

There is still room for Shadow Dancer, especially considering it was always one of the most requested hero options. A good thread on the subject: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/280979/shadowdancers-from-tt-to-tww

As for the potential WE LP in Game3. There still are units that can be used to make one. Personally, I want Spites the most. Naieth and Araloth are clear choices for LLs.

Huskk Gnawbone wants something the WEs have.. plot already written.