Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Make the Light Sleds pulled by horses and remove bears from casters

mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,718
2 basic changes that will reduce the overabundance of bears in a meaningful way and differentiate the 2nd sled. Then you got a pretty solid core roster in your hands.
«1

Comments

  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,838
    I think giving horses to the light sled would make sense. Would also be cool to have a Kossars crew instead of Streltsi.

    This would help to further differentiate the 2 sleds.

    I doubt CA can do anything since it’s GWs design.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,724
    I disagree with the Ice Witches losing the bears, unless they get something else.

    I hate the flanderization, but no content is even worse.
  • AethelstanAethelstan Registered Users Posts: 308
    Agreed. This is a small change but it changes the character of the roster quite significantly. Ice Witches would need some kind of replacement mount though, ideally a sled.
    Now then, what's going on 'ere? I'll have no more o' this!
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,849
    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,766
    No love for Elk, huh :(?
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 803
    Pocman said:

    I disagree with the Ice Witches losing the bears, unless they get something else.

    I hate the flanderization, but no content is even worse.

    Ice Horse, working similarly to the Barded Horse, Elk and/or Indrika (Monstrous Mount)
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 1,166
    ArneSo said:

    I think giving horses to the light sled would make sense. Would also be cool to have a Kossars crew instead of Streltsi.

    This would help to further differentiate the 2 sleds.

    I doubt CA can do anything since it’s GWs design.

    For once we agree on something :) The point about the Kossars is a good one, CA's own text for the unit even mention Kossars as part of the crew.

    I don't think that GW's control is quite as oppresive and rigid as that, CA has already been allowed to do numerous changes to ther GW designs in WH1 & 2 and in the Q&A they described how Katarin's design was a collaboration that involved plenty of back and forth between the two companies. In this case it is more likely that CA wanted to keep costs down by reusing the maximum of assets, makes sense from an economic perspective but it is a missed opportunity to make Kislev more flavour full.
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,117
    Honestly a good compromise and would make them both distinct units.

    Light sleds pulled by horses could probably afford to have stronger ranged fire power and could act like scourge runner chariots whereas heavy sleds are just straight up chariots pulled by bears you use to ram into enemy lines that also has ranged attacks.

    In fact, they could go even farther with the concept. Make heavy war sleds be manned with a halberdier or polearm crew so that when the bears plunge deep into enemy ranks, the men on the sled will then hack and cut at enemies around them while the bears also do their part in mauling the enemy.
  • Odysseus95Odysseus95 Registered Users Posts: 280
    I had the same thing in mind OP, great minds think alike :P. Although I would go one step further, and make the light sleds also be manned by archers instead of gunners, so they're truly a cheap and light variant.
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 11,325
    ArneSo said:

    I think giving horses to the light sled would make sense. Would also be cool to have a Kossars crew instead of Streltsi.

    This would help to further differentiate the 2 sleds.

    I doubt CA can do anything since it’s GWs design.

    CA did say they have some liberties with the design so it's possible they would be able to do that. Not that I think they will.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,679
    Pocman said:

    I disagree with the Ice Witches losing the bears, unless they get something else.

    I hate the flanderization, but no content is even worse.

    Of course they'd get something else.

    "Only under the direst circumstances does the Tzarina join her armies (known in Kislev as punts), but when she does it is often upon a mighty steed whose flanks shimmer with glittering ice crystals and whose breath is the winter wind, or riding an armoured sled, drawn by a team of identical beasts. "

    Pocman said:

    I don't want them removed... i want them substituted by something more adequate.





    Just make the sled grander
    Elks, the above mentioned horses, or magic to propel them.
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • kevManiackevManiac Registered Users Posts: 815
    I agree, assuming the sleds come some time. Of course I want them in when the game releases, but if that's impossible (due to mo-cap, or no time for the artists or something) at least let them come later on. If they are supposedly in some DLC, let them be an equivalence to Teclis' flying pidgeon, or something like the free Shadow Warriors when you pick Alith Anar.
    Adding them retrospectively to Katarin/ the Ice Witches is maybe the best way, if they are not there at launch.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,718
    Sephlock said:

    No love for Elk, huh :(?

    Elk reminds me of elgi, so nope >:)

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943
    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,679
    edited June 16
    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Because they wouldn't be ice wood elves just because they'd have a few units of sleds pulled by Elks, since they don't have people riding STAGS. Or are they Ice Bretonnians because they have horses?
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Because they wouldn't be ice wood elves just because they'd have a few units of sleds pulled by Elks, since they don't have people riding STAGS. Or are they Ice Bretonnians because they have horses?
    Yeah basically. Too many horses as is.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,117
    edited June 16
    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943
    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,117
    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    An guess what, most of Kislev's army are conscripted serfs and peasants. You think those kossars are professional troops who train 24/7?
    But besides that, Reindeer can also be associated magic borned from the frozen tundra because they are one of the few mammals can that survive in that climate. This would fit well with the theme of Ice Witches being more closely associated with the Lore of the Ancient Widow than be connected to Ursun and his bears. And before you say that that's retconned, CA confirmed through Kostaltyn that the other gods of Kislev are still worshipped.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,221

    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.

    It only removes bears of the light version war sled, heavy version keep bears
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943
    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    An guess what, most of Kislev's army are conscripted serfs and peasants. You think those kossars are professional troops who train 24/7?
    But besides that, Reindeer can also be associated magic borned from the frozen tundra because they are one of the few mammals can that survive in that climate. This would fit well with the theme of Ice Witches being more closely associated with the Lore of the Ancient Widow than be connected to Ursun and his bears. And before you say that that's retconned, CA confirmed through Kostaltyn that the other gods of Kislev are still worshipped.
    Oh they are. Just very minor, compared to Ursun.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,679
    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    An guess what, most of Kislev's army are conscripted serfs and peasants. You think those kossars are professional troops who train 24/7?
    well... Kossars USED to be the standing Kislevite Army, payed for by the Tzar.
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 659
    edited June 16
    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    Its all about design and how CA handle it. I can easily imagine badass armored Elks or Reindeer with some sharp, pointy ice on horns and hooves.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,849

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    An guess what, most of Kislev's army are conscripted serfs and peasants. You think those kossars are professional troops who train 24/7?
    well... Kossars USED to be the standing Kislevite Army, payed for by the Tzar.
    And they still are, Armoured Kossars are the stantind army, the normal troops, paid by the nobles and all.

    Even Tzar Guard are Kossars, they simply are veteran ones that have been tasked whit protecting the nobility and the Royal Family.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943

    Amonkhet said:

    maccabbee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    No sure why people want them to become Ice Wood Elves...with these Elk.

    Same reason that other factions get manticores, giants, wolves, dragons, etc.? Wood Elves do not have a monopoly on these woodland animals. Likewise does Kislev and bears. In fact Drycha should have some feral bears herself.
    Not to mention that Deers are not associated with snow and ice as opposed to Elks or Reindeer which are very iconic in settings that focuses on a lot of snow.
    Elks or Reindeer are more recognisable with farmers.
    Its all about design and how CA handle it. I can easily imagine badass armored Elks or Reindeer with some sharp, pointy ice on horns and hooves.
    Thats an insult to Ursun!
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,849
    Blaced said:

    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.

    It only removes bears of the light version war sled, heavy version keep bears
    The bears is the thing that allows them to go into melee, you remove them, you end up with a basic War Wagon.

    Kislev is all about hybrid units, the only few units that aren't hybrid, are pure melee, Kislev doesn't have a single unit that is only range.
  • HarkovastHarkovast Registered Users Posts: 2,248
    I agree.
    For The Lady, for Manann, for Bordeleaux!
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,117

    Blaced said:

    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.

    It only removes bears of the light version war sled, heavy version keep bears
    The bears is the thing that allows them to go into melee, you remove them, you end up with a basic War Wagon.

    Kislev is all about hybrid units, the only few units that aren't hybrid, are pure melee, Kislev doesn't have a single unit that is only range.
    Horse archers are, since dervishes are their melee counterpart.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943
    maccabbee said:

    Blaced said:

    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.

    It only removes bears of the light version war sled, heavy version keep bears
    The bears is the thing that allows them to go into melee, you remove them, you end up with a basic War Wagon.

    Kislev is all about hybrid units, the only few units that aren't hybrid, are pure melee, Kislev doesn't have a single unit that is only range.
    Horse archers are, since dervishes are their melee counterpart.
    Horse Archers are said to be pretty decent in melee.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,849
    maccabbee said:

    Blaced said:

    Removing the bears of the War Sleds would defeat the purpose of the unit.

    Kislev is a hybrid heavy race, the War Sleds are pulled by bears because that way they are actually usefull in melee, horses aren't.

    It's the dilemma of speed vs armour that diferentiates them.

    Also, why removing mounts, simply add the Sled as another option, let people have them on bears if they want.

    It only removes bears of the light version war sled, heavy version keep bears
    The bears is the thing that allows them to go into melee, you remove them, you end up with a basic War Wagon.

    Kislev is all about hybrid units, the only few units that aren't hybrid, are pure melee, Kislev doesn't have a single unit that is only range.
    Horse archers are, since dervishes are their melee counterpart.
    No, they are stated as being decent in melee, so not pure range.
Sign In or Register to comment.