Chaos Tide in WH3 and Diplomacy fixes

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

So one of the major issues for me in Warhammer is the poor diplomacy system. Diplomacy is very basic with factions liking you mainly for having common enemy's or maintaining non aggression/ trade for periods of times as well as passive buffs to your diplomacy with factions via research tech.

As a Three Kingdoms player, with over 1000 hours in that game, I really would like them to bring some of the Three Kingdoms diplomacy improvements to Warhammer. We have already seen that CA has been bringing graphical improvements as well as battle options ( such as escape zone for ambush battles) to Warhammer 3. They also seem to be using Lu Bu's momentum faction mechanic or a similar version for Taurox in the new upcoming DLC. Three Kingdoms most critical contribution to the franchise however for me was diplomacy.

One of the main reasons that I think diplomacy improvements will be critical is because I don't want to see all the Chaos factions suddenly becoming allies and not having in fighting between the Chaos gods. Attacking Khorne in most situations should also not drag me into a war with Nurgle and the rest of the Chaos gods. A Chaos tide is what I am most concerned about if the diplomacy system is not fixed to be more dynamic. Furthermore, chaos gods should have very deceitful personalities and when negotiating with them it should feel like you are making a bargain with the devil with a major downside to getting anything diplomacy wise from them. The lazier option would be to just not let Chaos factions negotiate.

Diplomacy for me is a serious issue that needs to be handled well so the campaign can be immersive without the AI behaving counter to the lore.

Diplomacy has been very stale and frustrating in Warhammer, it is time this was fixed with the final game.

I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this as I have not seen this topic discussed much in the forums.

Slayer_Yannir#8069

Exactly, and that should apply to some current races as well.

Making deals with Dark Elves, Vampires or Skaven should feel like you're dealing with an unreliable faction whereas Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Greenskins should be hard to get agreements with unless you're of the same race. Dwarfs and High Elves should be very selective of who they deal with but once you're friendly with them, they are indeed very friendly.

CA please, make diplomacy more complicated, dynamic and harder to approach.

Aethelstan

A new type of diplomacy between chaos factions would be a good addition. Some kind of relationship that allows them to cooperate against order factions when needed, but also to fight amongst one another without it being classed as all-out war.

Perhaps it could link back to a mechanic whereby all chaos factions compete in some way, rising and falling in the ranks by fighting both one another and the asinine mortals.

I like your point about ‘dealing with the devil’. Tzeentch could offer incredibly lucrative trade deals that also spread chaos corruption in your lands, or having a treaty with Nurgle could have a chance of spawning plagues in your settlements each turn. Treaties with Skaven could lead to undercities developing beneath your lands.

mdgh1991#3091

Skarbrand and diplomacy? 😂

avvve

Really worried that CA have just made some minor tweaks to the diplomacy in WH3.
It really needs some big ass love.

#239632

Isnt the problem now order tide and all bad guy factions wont ally or trade or anything with eachother?

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

KingGojira said:

Isnt the problem now order tide and all bad guy factions wont ally or trade or anything with eachother?

Yes order tide is the problem now, but I was talking about the WH3 campaign not mortal empires.

But yes mortal empires when implemented in game 3 should have a better system so there is not an order tide or the aforementioned feared Chaos tide. Daemons of Chaos should be strong yes and hard to invade, but should also fight among themselves.

445Aas#5515

Maybe the Chaos god factions should always be at war with each other, however they can still engage diplomacy dispite the war and agree on attacking other races for like a 20 turn cease-fire?

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

Aethelstan said:

I like your point about ‘dealing with the devil’. Tzeentch could offer incredibly lucrative trade deals that also spread chaos corruption in your lands, or having a treaty with Nurgle could have a chance of spawning plagues in your settlements each turn. Treaties with Skaven could lead to undercities developing beneath your lands.

I think these are very good ideas, some very enticing options for the player short term but with long term consequences.

IamNotArobot#8850

What can Chaos Demons trade? Would they trade with mortals?

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

IamNotArobot said:

What can Chaos Demons trade? Would they trade with mortals?

They could trade IMO but that would cause chaos corruption or plague in the case of Nurgle in your lands. They embody the ten deadly sins one of which is greed that fits in nicely with the theme of them giving you material possessions.

Slayer_Yannir#8069

TheTrueLordAndy said:

IamNotArobot said:

What can Chaos Demons trade? Would they trade with mortals?

They could trade IMO but that would cause chaos corruption or plague in the case of Nurgle in your lands. They embody the ten deadly sins one of which is greed that fits in nicely with the theme of them giving you material possessions.

Ten deadly sins? I know seven so what are the other three?

IamNotArobot#8850

Yannir said:

TheTrueLordAndy said:

IamNotArobot said:

What can Chaos Demons trade? Would they trade with mortals?

They could trade IMO but that would cause chaos corruption or plague in the case of Nurgle in your lands. They embody the ten deadly sins one of which is greed that fits in nicely with the theme of them giving you material possessions.

Ten deadly sins? I know seven so what are the other three?

simping, flat earthing and Trumpism.

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

Yannir said:

TheTrueLordAndy said:

IamNotArobot said:

What can Chaos Demons trade? Would they trade with mortals?

They could trade IMO but that would cause chaos corruption or plague in the case of Nurgle in your lands. They embody the ten deadly sins one of which is greed that fits in nicely with the theme of them giving you material possessions.

Ten deadly sins? I know seven so what are the other three?

Your right its late lol, we can all make up three more I guess...

ITA_Vae_Victis#3647

I really, really doubt the Monogods will have any meaningful diplomacy with Kislev and Cathai - and rightfully so.

Some improvements to diplomacy would be great, and it's not too much of a pipe dream since they can copy most of it from 3K. On the one hand, CA talked very very little about campaign so far, so a meaningful overhaul could be one of the coming features they will announce along with the campaign map.

On the other, the fact that CA knows this is on par if not higher than sieges rework on the list of requested features, and still didn't hint at any changes coming whatsoever, maybe they didn't work so much on this after all. Some minor changes most likely (mostly behind the curtain on how faction reputation works and what is the likelihood of certain proposals being accepted - I really don't want to see Katarin declaring war on Kostaltyn on a whim just because Ku'gath kindly asked her to), maybe some QoL features like trading regions with allied AI factions, but anything beyond that is already a 50-50 chance if not lower to me.

IamNotArobot#8850

settlement trade!!!!

MrDragon#2461

I wouldn't be worried about "Chaostide" as I'm not expecting any actual alliances to be reliable between Chaos AI.
The monogods are more likely to have diplomacy penalties rather than bonuses amongst each other.
At best they might have bonuses with the Warriors and Beasts of Chaos factions but not each other.

DaGangster#8697

I wouldnt imagine any demon faction make peace they will most likely act as beast men and warriors.