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I wish CA would have treated Vampire Counts differently from the start

Cortes31#6909Cortes31#6909 Registered Users Posts: 2,385
edited June 2021 in General Discussion
I mean, I can get why they did it this way, but still.

Looking back, I wish they would have used Vlad instead of Kemmler for 2nd starting LL.
Replace Ghorst with a Necrearch, keep Isabella as FLC.
All von Carstein would start from same place. I do not care at all about lore or gameplay for this.
During rework, move the Necrearch and make the Red Duke a Drycha-style FLC for Grim and Grave.
Then, during next LP, give Strigoi a DLC (they are best vampires and thus they deserve DLC) and make Nefferata another Drycha-style FLC.

All bloodlines nicely represented. B)

Kemmler could then be part of a potential Nagash race with necromancer-only for LL.

Comments

  • WhySoSalty#3990WhySoSalty#3990 Registered Users Posts: 1,524
    Ghorst and Isabella were both mistakes. Ghorst should never been aded. We have a damn Necromancer with Kemmler. Isabella should be a LH.

    That way they could easily add Neffy, Zacharias, Ushoran and Wallach/Duke and we would have all bloodlines and a necromancer on top of that.
    My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial, can you say the same?


  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,172
    edited June 2021
    I'd have liked:

    Vlad von Carstein (Isabella unique LH)
    Mannfred von Carstein (Ghorst unique LH)
    Vorag Bloodytooth (DLC1)
    Zacharias the Everliving (FLC1)
    Neferata (DLC2)
    Abhorash (FLC2)
    Kemmler (DLC3)

    Total War Access FLC Lord: Conrad von Carstein

    That would have covered Von Carsteins, Strigoi, Necrarch, Blood Dragon and Lahmian bloodlines

  • PPerunPPerun Registered Users Posts: 366
    Amonkhet said:

    I'd have liked:

    Vlad von Carstein (Isabella unique LH)
    Mannfred von Carstein (Ghorst unique LH)
    Vorag Bloodytooth (DLC1)
    Zacharias the Everliving (FLC1)
    Neferata (DLC2)
    Abhorash (FLC2)
    Kemmler (DLC3)

    Total War Access FLC Lord: Conrad von Carstein

    That would have covered Von Carsteins, Strigoi, Necrarch, Blood Dragon and Lahmian bloodlines

    Abhorash is more like a Kroak/Ariel-type of a character, imo. Leading armies? I dont know
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,172
    PPerun said:

    Amonkhet said:

    I'd have liked:

    Vlad von Carstein (Isabella unique LH)
    Mannfred von Carstein (Ghorst unique LH)
    Vorag Bloodytooth (DLC1)
    Zacharias the Everliving (FLC1)
    Neferata (DLC2)
    Abhorash (FLC2)
    Kemmler (DLC3)

    Total War Access FLC Lord: Conrad von Carstein

    That would have covered Von Carsteins, Strigoi, Necrarch, Blood Dragon and Lahmian bloodlines

    Abhorash is more like a Kroak/Ariel-type of a character, imo. Leading armies? I dont know
    Replace him for the Red Duke then. Walach Harkon the other Blood Dragon should go with Nagash imo since he's a Mortarch and VC have plenty of character options.

  • capybarasiesta89#4722capybarasiesta89#4722 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,463
    I totally agree with that I don't like how Vamps are done, especially about Ghorst and Isabella as FLC.

    Sigmar's Blood was ultimate showdown between Mannfred and Volkmar, Ghorst was just Henchman so he should have been unique Necromancer LH.

    Isabella as LL bad choice don't like it at all.

    Krell needs to become full LH like Ghoritch and Ariel, obtained via Quest Battle.
    h1feizw8yzk6.jpg
  • Mini_Banana#2862Mini_Banana#2862 Registered Users Posts: 434
    Victims of the first game finding it's footing and some weird decisions on top of that. Hopefully they eventually get their due over the coming years.
  • Mr_Finley7#4571Mr_Finley7#4571 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,417
    I wish they could have balanced them without having stamina of any sort and a greater reliance on the raise dead mechanic.
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070
    CA wasted LL spots to Ghorst and Isabella.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    The problem was that, at the time, CA followed dogmatically the 8th edition, and it was the edition where GW decided that only Von Carsteins were Vampire Counts. Hence, the only characters they could add were Kemmler, Mannfred, Isabella, Vlad and Konrad. Aaand Ghorst, who just happened to be an actual 8th character with rules, which people usually forget. The little bugger had 8th edition rules ! He's technically more legitimate than Nakai ! Plus he had a direct rivalry with Volkmar inan official supplement and an affinity with a DLC centerpiece !

    Anyways, at the time, it made sense to start with the Vampire active and alive at the time of the game, and a Necromancer to add diversity (plus Kemmler is also alive at the time). In that logic, following with Ghorst, Vlad and Izzy made perfect sense. If WH1 had a second serving of DLCs, Konrad would probably have been there too.

    Since then, CA expanded their scope, and now we're asking for a LL for every bloodline, which is good, we should get that ! But I wanna remind people that calling Ghorst and Izzy a mistake is pure hindsight, at the time, they were the only choices ! And keep in mind too that the ones to blame for the lack of other bloodlines are GW, who erased from the TT every non-Carstein after 6th ed !
  • steam_165171714789pPAEKOHsteam_165171714789pPAEKOH Registered Users Posts: 855
    Isabella never should have been a lord. She should be a hero so she can partner with Vlad.

    Anyone who doesn't comprehend this has no business having opinions about Vampire Counts.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,583
    endikux said:

    Isabella never should have been a lord. She should be a hero so she can partner with Vlad.

    Anyone who doesn't comprehend this has no business having opinions about Vampire Counts.

    Or tbh i would make vald the hero. Isabella the lord.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • General_Hijalti#1213General_Hijalti#1213 Registered Users Posts: 5,430
    Kemmler was good to start with as he represents the necromancer side of the Vampire society.
    And is a big lore character involved in the current events unlike vlad.
  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 1,430
    TW: Warhammer was a game from a different era, a time when GW viewed the game as easy money to fatten up his bank account without really caring about the success of the game.

    Over the years TW: Warhammer went from being a wad of easy money for GW to being his goose that lays golden eggs and therefore a complete change of mind towards the game.

    TW: Warhammer has changed so much that we even have GW spending money to create content for the game when, for them, video games have never been more than easy money to collect and forget.
  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 6,786
    Vamps are fine.
    They even have their bloodlines and immortal lords of bloodlines.
    Done like a dinner. 🧛‍♀️
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,760
    I would have kept Kemmler fpr Nagash, no Ghrost, Isabella as a LH for Vlad, Red Duke as a playable character with a unique model, Ushoran, Zacharias and Neferata.


    Also, no vampirates. Instead, give their more unique units to the vampire counts or to nagash.
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,172
    Pocman said:

    I would have kept Kemmler fpr Nagash, no Ghrost, Isabella as a LH for Vlad, Red Duke as a playable character with a unique model, Ushoran, Zacharias and Neferata.


    Also, no vampirates. Instead, give their more unique units to the vampire counts or to nagash.

    Lustria without Luthor Harkon? Enjoy an all-lizardman island.

  • MiniaAr#5798MiniaAr#5798 Registered Users Posts: 1,788
    I agree with the OP "I wish they did things differently" but I also agree with @brago90 , this is because in hindsight we know that the scope has been expended.

    I have some thoughts about it:
    - Isabella: How hard would it be to make her a legendary hero, remove her red Line and change her blue line to match a hero one? As I think some player favour her as a lord, why not when playing as Vlad have a toggle at the start: Isabella as hero on/off

    - Red Duke: should be made playable with basic bretonnian infantry (like Sylvania) and maybe an elite unit of Black Grail Knights. Maybe tie this behind the Call of the Beastmen DLC as Red Duke came with that DLC . This gives a playable Blood Dragon lord.

    - Vorag: is probably a FLC material maybe again with basic Strigany mortal units and maybe an armoured ghoul variant. With a start position in the Marsh of Madness and a landmark building in the fortress of Vorag, this would be a new and interesting VC strart position.

    - Zacharias: I today think that the "Grave" par of TG&tG would have been better with Zacharias instead of Ghorst (who could have been a LH equivalent for Mannfree of Krell for Kemmler). Zacharias would have brought bonuses to casters, a special rite to invoke Zombie Dragons as units (fits the lore) and a start position in the north of the empire. Maybe for game 3 as a southern front for Kislev?

    - Neferata : she's coming, I can sense it I would prefer as a proper VCount so that all bloodlines would be represented. Possible as a LL under a Nagash race but I feel the Nameless, Walach Harkon and Dieter Helsnicht could be enough.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,571
    edited June 2021
    Amonkhet said:

    I'd have liked:

    Vlad von Carstein (Isabella unique LH)
    Mannfred von Carstein (Ghorst unique LH)
    Vorag Bloodytooth (DLC1)
    Zacharias the Everliving (FLC1)
    Neferata (DLC2)
    Abhorash (FLC2)
    Kemmler (DLC3)

    Total War Access FLC Lord: Conrad von Carstein

    That would have covered Von Carsteins, Strigoi, Necrarch, Blood Dragon and Lahmian bloodlines

    Konrad should also be a Legendary hero, because there are enough Von Carstein lords
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,571
    Amonkhet said:

    Pocman said:

    I would have kept Kemmler fpr Nagash, no Ghrost, Isabella as a LH for Vlad, Red Duke as a playable character with a unique model, Ushoran, Zacharias and Neferata.


    Also, no vampirates. Instead, give their more unique units to the vampire counts or to nagash.

    Lustria without Luthor Harkon? Enjoy an all-lizardman island.
    Luthor Harkon best Vampire

    No Luthor = heretic
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