The Three Popular Pre-Order Race Theories

Wyvax#7456

So, it seems to be that most of us are divided into the pre-order either being Hobgoblins, the Dogs of War, or a hypothetical Nagash race. Since the majority of the discussions on this forum result in debating which of the three is the most likely, why not have a thread open to facilitate that. Discussion and debate of all three are welcome. Let's ignore the astrology though.

Personally I'm of the opinion that Nagash is the most likely. I was never fond of the concept of a fourth undead race in truth, but the implementation of monogods proves that GW and CA can create whatever feasible new races they want, and if that's the case then Undead Legions of Nagash alongside Drachenfels is definitely on the table. My reasoning is threefold.

Pre-order races have traditionally only launched with 2 LLs. Nagash and Drachenfels are the only super duper important characters for this hypothetical race, others such as Dieter Helsnicht could be added on later as FLC or DLC however. Both the Hobgoblin Khaganates and the Dogs of War (especially the DoW) have multiple characters which I think would better be facilitated via a campaign pack bringing four LLs on arrival.

Pre-order races utilize the marketing budget for their creation and have less unique model skeletons, relying on massive amounts of remodels and reskins to flesh out the roster. This could be applied to all of the races, but Nagash's undead legions was literally just VC and TK glued together in the ET and way back in 4th edition before they split. We can expect a great deal of overlap in regards to zombies and skeletons for a hypothetical fourth undead race, the only models actually requiring new rigging being Nagash and Drachenfels themselves, the Morghasts, Dread Abyssals and possibly the Incarnate Elemental of Death if they decide to include it.

Lastly I suspect that the pre-order race is going to be heavily involved with the central campaign between the Chaos races, Kislev and Cathay. The undead hordes of Nagash are the only realistic third side to this conflict between Order and Chaos, given he's a legitimate threat and rival to the forces of Chaos. Neither the Hobgoblins and the Dogs of War can lay claim to that, both being random forces of destruction or profit on the world stage, rather than as a legitimate third side of the conflict.

Again, this thread is open to discussions about all three potential races. So let us begin the squabbling!

HeresyHound

I concur with your points honestly. I think Nagash is the most likely and with the "use the dying god for ultimate power" or whatever the plot actually it is it would make the most sense to me.

Part of this is because I believe if done well, DoW should really be a Campaign pack even though we have only recieved 2 in the first to games. I'm actually not a DoW fan honestly, I just think they should get some proper DLC based on them actually being a major thing once upon a time and being pretty popular overall.

Hobgoblins are more of a pipe dream for me. I like em. I want em. I feel like if we get them it will be after we get CDs.

Kouran_Darkhand#6365

Exact. Nagash is perfect because he can bring something truly diverse to the third game.
The other two factions are nice supplements, and I’m sure we will end having them, but Nagash as pre order makes perfect sense to me because of your reasons.

RikRiorik#9890

Are these the most popular? Only because people are ruling out Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs on account of wanting more for them than a preorder would supposedly bring.

Of those three you present I’d hope for more for the Dogs of War than to be a race pack of olden sorts. I’d be quite content with the other two filling that slot though.

SaintCorn#3148

I think Hobgoblins and Nagash are on more or less equal footing.

Hobgoblins occupy a large land area between Kislev and Cathay.
They're known for binding Wind Demons in lore which could be expanded upon and influence a narrative campaign involving the "dying God".
Hobgoblins interact with Chaos via sweeping land battles across the steppe.

The only major downside that I can really see is army roster and the models for Hobgoblins.
Hobgoblin models would be needed for a Chaos Dwarf Campaign pack anyway, and CA has been more than willing to work with GW or create their own thing to make stuff work.

Also. Thank you for not including the astronomy. I argued the most about it, and I honestly never want to look at a constellation again at this point.

Wyvax#7456

FungusHound said:

I concur with your points honestly. I think Nagash is the most likely and with the "use the dying god for ultimate power" or whatever the plot actually it is it would make the most sense to me.

Part of this is because I believe if done well, DoW should really be a Campaign pack even though we have only recieved 2 in the first to games. I'm actually not a DoW fan honestly, I just think they should get some proper DLC based on them actually being a major thing once upon a time and being pretty popular overall.

Hobgoblins are more of a pipe dream for me. I like em. I want em. I feel like if we get them it will be after we get CDs.

Dud I completely forgot about the whole 'dying god' plot point. That absolutely screams Nagash given his horrible End Times lore.

Wyvax#7456

RikRiorik said:

Are these the most popular? Only because people are ruling out Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs on account of wanting more for them than a preorder would supposedly bring.

Of those three you present I’d hope for more for the Dogs of War than to be a race pack of olden sorts. I’d be quite content with the other two filling that slot though.

I think it's because so many of us are dreading the possibility of either becoming a pre-order race. Unless they dramatically up the ante with more budget and LLs, seeing the OK or CD with less work put in them would be such a let down.

ROMOBOY#7812

Nagash is the most likely due to cost. Would I prefer Hobgoblins if they couldn’t get a campaign pack? Yeah! I’ll honestly be disappointed if WH3 didn’t have more than 2 campaign packs.

HeresyHound

RikRiorik said:

Are these the most popular? Only because people are ruling out Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs on account of wanting more for them than a preorder would supposedly bring.

Of those three you present I’d hope for more for the Dogs of War than to be a race pack of olden sorts. I’d be quite content with the other two filling that slot though.

ROMOBOY said:

Nagash is the most likely due to cost. Would I prefer Hobgoblins if they couldn’t get a campaign pack? Yeah! I’ll honestly be disappointed if WH3 didn’t have more than 2 race packs.

I would prefer if we got a race pack now, 3 campaign packs, and then maybe if CA is still chugging along after all that and some lord packs we will hopefully get another race pack or two.

Perhaps a bit too optimistic

SaintCorn#3148

Also, it's interesting to note that Nagash and The Nameless fits the sort of duality that Kislev's Legendary Lords have.

Nagash would be the Katarin like character of the faction being the head.

The Nameless is the secondary character who is vying for more power and to overthrow the faction's head.

I also kinda expect that dynamic to happen with Cathay with the Dragon Emperor and the Monkey King.
(I know about the Dien Ch'ing hint, but I think he will be Cathay's advisor personally.)

It's an interesting connection that could mean something, but it could just as easily be coincidental.

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TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

I'm in none of those camps. Although I am fine with any of those options , I still believe that it will be Chaos Dwarves.

Personally I would be especially pleased if it was Legions of Nagash. Mainly because there are so many undead characters to add. This would also leave space for Neferatta and Ushoran to become Vampire count legendary lords.

In terms of why I think it would be chaos dwarves though. I think the Hobgoblin khanate would be too much work as a new race. Instead I think he would be a LL under the chaod dwarf umbrela. Consider that for Norsca we had wulfrik for humand and Throgg representing the monster side of the roster. This could be done similarly with chaos dwarves if Drazoath the Ashen is one LL lord and Hobgoblin Khanate is the other. Also the animations/ wireframes for Chaos dwarves and any hobgoblins should largely be based on other units or even completely available in some cases. Therefore, Chaos Dwarves would not be as high budget as compared to Ogre Kingdoms for example.

Prince_Alucard

Out of the three, Dogs of War is the one I suspected the most. Up until the recent news today, now I think it might actually be the FLC RoR. But hmm, not entirely sure either way, could still very well be them.


Now this one is REAL controversial I know. But I do honestly think the chaos dwarfs could be it. I'd think(and hope) that it would be the most ambitious/large preorder yet. It's been a long time since we've even had a preorder faction, Norsca was still to WH1 campaign pack standards, though with much more reskins. Chaos Dwarfs I think there's juuuust enough you can reuse or animate easily enough compared to some stuff, such as ogres. Though it's still way more work than the other choices here.


But on the other hand, if Vampire Coast gets a full on campaign pack, and Cathay base roster. It would feel a bit weird to not just do them as a campaign pack. That and the very old datamine had them as dlc already. The preorders for the last two have been either more so last minute/secondary. So I'm not really certain of the Chaos Dwarfs. I've heard convincing stuff from both sides of the argument. I think I lean to them not being it though.


Nagash, it could be, but I doesn't seem quite right for me, for whatever reason. Seems a bit too soon. But he does have a lot of reused stuff potentially, so I do consider him as a contender for the preorder.

Hobgoblins hmmm, kinda doubt, a bit of a secondary faction with not much at all without using missing greenskins stuff or coming up with new material.. But I don't doubt entirely, it's certainly the Norsca-type choice where most did not see it coming. I wouldn't mind them and I definitely think they're preorder worthy if we're going on the smaller/cheap scale.


Ogres I think is just way, waaaaay too big for a preorder faction, that one would shock me more than any of the other options tbh. Too much work for the preorder for sure to make a faction that's almost entirely unique in terms of animation/rigs.

PoorManatee6197#6481

I think the preorder race wont be connected to the main plot in any way just like the tomb kings and vampirates arent connected to the vortex.

That said hobgoblins make more sense for me, their position on the map is just perfect, 2 LL are enought for them and overall they look like an easy race to do. Plus chaos dwarfs will be a thing eventually, they may even be the first campaign pack, so CA would have to make hobgoblin skeletons anyway, why not take advantage of that work and use it on other thing?

Dogs of war I dont see being a thing anytime soon to be honest, its a race I would really like but it deserves to be a campaign pack and other races have priority right now.

Legions of Nagash have potential but I'm not interested in it and I have a hard time imagining a roster that would appeal to me, but I wont deny it could be the preorder. This is personal opinion of course, if legions of Nagash is your favourite thing that could happen thats fine.

endurstonehelm#6102

I think Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres have too much stuff to be a pre-order.

So I think Dogs of War, Hobgoblins, or Nagash make the most sense.

Of the three, I think Hobgoblins are the least likely, as they had the least amount of lore and figures.

Dogs of War or Nagash is what I would expect. If the faction was going to be on the vortex map, then I would have guessed Dogs of War. Since it sounds like the pre-order is not on the vortex map (game 3 only), then I think it might be Nagash.

Azurian#4207

We are witnessing strange arbitrariness on the part of CA. Kathai, who did not have official army books, since the 4th edition becomes the base race of game 3, and the Dogs of War who had their own army books have extremely low chances of getting even the miserable Ras Pak.

Omega_Warrior

The preorder race is unlikely to be a part of the core race’s storyline. The preorders are generally considered like DLC who always have entirely separate campaigns from the core races.

So if that’s your reasoning, it’s probably a bit faulty.

Warlocke

I have a feeling it’s going to end up being Chaos Dwarfs and so many people in this forum will be soooooo upset. 😂

Azurian#4207

The most common theories I've heard are:

1. Dogs of war for the 2nd game
2. Chaos Dwarves for the 3rd game
3. Ogres for the 3rd game

Theories are not common, but in my opinion they have the right to life

1. Nippon
2. Nagash

Nippon is a difficult question, I do not exclude that CA will do it just to avoid grievances from players from Japan, and do not forget that SEGA is also a Japanese company.

Nagash always struck me as nonsense. In classic Warhammer, such a race never existed, it is only the desire of fans of Nagash himself. However, this desire is so strong and widespread that CAs can fulfill it (However, this did not help with Arabia)

Mini_Banana#2862

I agree that I think unfortunately Chaos Dwarves are up there in likelihood as well. But who knows, the standard may have evolved and it will actually be a race pack on par with a campaign pack.

Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157

Kouran_Darkhand said:

Exact. Nagash is perfect because he can bring something truly diverse to the third game.
The other two factions are nice supplements, and I’m sure we will end having them, but Nagash as pre order makes perfect sense to me because of your reasons.

Nothing diverse about more undead, yuck. They done. Nagash can be vampires lord pack.

Chaos dwarves or ogres probably will be it, or DoW(they technically would be better).
Don’t care, preorder races are good so don’t know why people would be worried whoever it is.

Nippon have no hope unless they will be part of Cathay dlc @Azurian .

Nyxilis#3646

1. Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves are far more likely to be a campaign dlc later. Russia leak had them there and they have rarely deviated on that. Also, they are the meatiest well known left overs from the original army book or prior legal armies. It would be essentially stealing away slam dunk dlcs for more money for a preorder. They are also both a lot more work than Norsca.

People just declaring they think it are not really bringing good counters than this other than essentially they exist.

2. Races that were not legal or minor races are a far more likely fit at this stage. Meaning DoW, hobgoblins and the like are more likely. But should be noted some other minor race could slide in and that is some interesting avenues.

3. Nagash I also don't think is as likely. They have few new units and mostly a smash up of TK and VCounts. If he came I think he would more likely be a lord for one of them with smash up rules similar to a more advance Arkhan. Get it, you like him a lot. Doesn't mean however he's bringing a unique army in tow. Especially as there has yet been any AoS.

SeanJeanquoi#3490

I'll bet money on it right now: they will not do Dogs of War proper until all the relevant factions are already in the game...Which means Ogres and Hobgoblins...which means no DoW Pre-order.

They could do the Southern Realms on their own, without a lot of the big Merc units, focusing instead on the local cultural ones, but that'd require a ton of work and the Southern Realms themselves might not even be properly on the map day 1.

Pre-order races thus far have been really easy low-effort things for CA to do (Norsca), or something so essential they had to be added (WoC). Southern Realms are neither.

So in terms of simple/essential from most likely to least:

Nagash & the Mortarchs
Hobgoblins
Chaos Dwarfs
Kurgan/Hung (unlikely they pull Norsca twice)
Southern Realms
Norse Dwarfs
Nippon (they need to go through so much red tape and get it greenlit tho)
Amazons (unlikely until after they get Mortal Empires up and running)
Albion and Halflings (wont be on the map)

HowTheStarsBurn#4488

I think your assumptions about the budget for the pre-order race is wildly inaccurate and nothing but pure speculation. We have no idea what the budget it, they could, in fact, have quite a substantial budget for it, and the possibilities could be much broader as a result. You are making conclusions based on nothing.

obippo#5152

nagash won't happen because the main focus and villain of the game, at least at launch, is chaos, and nagash would just overlap them. wouldn't make sense from a narrative pov unless (plot twist) he's actually the main villain and final "boss" of the game, which ofc could happen but is unlikely I think.

hobgoblins and dow are way more likely imo but CA will probably throw some wolf rider goblins around the dark lands, call them hobgoblins and call it a day, its not like they havent done crap like that before with kislev-empire and bretonnian-araby (sigh)

dow is 100% going to be the preorder imho. a bunch of reskins andd recolors, throw in couple new units and voila

second option is ca throwing a curveball and make some obscure faction like norse dwarfs or some rand tribe

Jam#4399

Pre-Order is a race.

Does Nagash have his own race?

He is only a LL under Vampire Counts, right?

SerPus#7395

Mattock said:

I like hobgoblins but I'm not sure where their idea came from.

People thought that Chaos Dwarfs will be core race, so CA could reuse hobgoblin assets to create the pre-order DLC, like they did with Norsca.

SeanJeanquoi#3490

@jamreal18

He has a few unique units (like Morghast's) and his own posse of Legendary Lords:

Arkhan the Black
Krell
The Nameless (Drachenfels)
Manfred von Carstein
Neferata (but she better not be joined to him at the hip)
The Dread King
Deiter Heilsnicht
Vlad von Carstein
The Hand of Nagash (like the mouth of Sauron)
Luther Harkon
Virion the Grim
and Walach Harkon

Since many of these characters already exist in the game, they could give him the few that don't and make it a campaign objective of his to defeat and confederate all these characters.

I've always wanted him to be the Attila of Warhammer 3, It'd be great if even his AI slowly snowballed overtime, collecting more and more LL's and its up to you to stop him.

Labria#2848

I really hope pre-order race pack will be new unique race like Dogs of War, Hobgoblins or even Norse Dwarfs.

Honestly, If really Legion of Nagash or similar nonsense is pre-order bonus. I see no real reason to pre-order this game.

Jam#4399

@SeanJeanquoi Nagash is under Vampire Counts, isn't he?

People want fresh new race with fresh new units. Maybe I am mistaken.

SnakeMajin#4018

As neighbours of all the WH3 races, I think Hobgoblins are likely to be planned by CA as AI factions. It wouldn't be a waste of time as their assets would obviously be used for the Chaos Dwarves.

So I see them getting a fate similar to Bretonnia and Chaos Warriors. Planned first as AIs then being given a bigger roster and made playable. Like Chaos Warriors, the pre-order could be the occasion to get fundings to make them playable.