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The Three Popular Pre-Order Race Theories

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  • Slayer_Yannir#8069Slayer_Yannir#8069 Registered Users Posts: 2,809
    I'm fairly sure that they won't do Ogres as pre-order. They need a bigger budget than that.

    However I'm still not convinced that Chaos Dwarfs couldn't be done with a smaller budget. Redressing Dawi and GS skeletons wouldn't be that tough and their War Machines/K'Daai don't require a huge animation budget.
    Formerly known as Yannir. Oaths have been taken.
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,440
    edited June 2021
    @jamreal18

    yeah you're right, he's more like a sub-faction, he's still a Vampire Count I believe.

    Edit: my bad, he actually wasn’t. Defer to Kratostatic right below this :)
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi#3490 on
  • kratostatic#8948kratostatic#8948 Registered Users Posts: 1,067

    @jamreal18

    yeah you're right, he's more like a sub-faction, he's still a Vampire Count I believe.

    Nagash has never been a Vampire Count character. He was "Undead" in 4th edition which didn't seperate VC and TK, and led a combined undead faction in End Times.
  • TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Registered Users Posts: 3,208
    The Hobgoblins are no way near important enough to recieve more than 2 lords. In fact they may even be lumped together with the Greenskins to save space. In no world should they get 4.

    Dogs of War SHOULD recieve 4 lords or MORE to have any credibility of representation here.

    Nagash might be the main alternative IF we are going with the 2-lord race alternative, but I really hope CA has moved passed that era of faulty DLC races and taken more inspiration from the quality of WH2.

    I hope instead for a full 4-lord race and we need a balancer to the overweighted Chaos on launch. Either Dogs of War, which may be the more cheap option as its mostly just a standard infantry and cavalry faction, or Ogre Kingdoms, which would be fitting to cram out quickly since they were expected to be a core race anyway. They are also neutral destruction, but against Chaos in the grand scheme of things.
  • kratostatic#8948kratostatic#8948 Registered Users Posts: 1,067

    The Hobgoblins are no way near important enough to recieve more than 2 lords. In fact they may even be lumped together with the Greenskins to save space. In no world should they get 4.

    Dogs of War SHOULD recieve 4 lords or MORE to have any credibility of representation here.

    Nagash might be the main alternative IF we are going with the 2-lord race alternative, but I really hope CA has moved passed that era of faulty DLC races and taken more inspiration from the quality of WH2.

    I hope instead for a full 4-lord race and we need a balancer to the overweighted Chaos on launch. Either Dogs of War, which may be the more cheap option as its mostly just a standard infantry and cavalry faction, or Ogre Kingdoms, which would be fitting to cram out quickly since they were expected to be a core race anyway. They are also neutral destruction, but against Chaos in the grand scheme of things.

    It's a Race Pack like Norsca or Chaos Warriors, not a Campaign Pack like Wood Elves or Tomb Kings. By definition it's smaller. So not a "full 4-lord race".

    Note that small != bad. Norsca was a Race Pack and were the best implemented Race in game at that point.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Registered Users Posts: 16,826
    Nagash would bore me to tears and keep me from buying the game until Mortal Empires 2 launches and I can play a faction I actually enjoy...

    ...but yeah he or Neferata or some other ****ing vampire or undead thing is probably coming just because it would the lowest hanging fruit on the tree (other than adding Savage Orcs properly).

    Hope I'm wrong and it's something interesting, but... I'm not wrong.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    I find Nagash incredibly boring. He is a one dimensional character leading a 'race' that is a bland mix of the 3 interesting undead races we have. I frankly think adding him as a race pack would diminish from the game - making the distinction between the undead races less meaningful; or even supplanting them entirely.

    However he is extremely low hanging fruit- and a large part of the community seem almost excited by how low effort it could be :D

    So yeah Nagash is very possible.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Registered Users Posts: 16,826

    The Hobgoblins are no way near important enough to recieve more than 2 lords.

    Before you spew such things, try actually reading up on the history of the region in question.

    Hobgoblins are a major faction in the East, and quite a large one at that. They terrorize the ENTIRE eastern continent, and are known to invade into the World's Edge Mountains, Southlands, Badlands, Araby, and even hit the Border Princes sometimes.

    In fact, they actually have more lore and models and what not about them than Cathay ever did (until GW just made it up for this game).

    So don't be so quick to write them off.
  • FonRestorff#9571FonRestorff#9571 Registered Users Posts: 557
    An outsider would be Albion.
  • Reeks#2417Reeks#2417 Registered Users Posts: 10,792
    I´m sorry but the pre-order is thicc one could say



    Nurgle is love

    Nurgle is life

    #JusticeForNurglingForumAvatars
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Registered Users Posts: 16,826
    edited June 2021
    Reeks said:

    I´m sorry but the pre-order is thicc one could say

    *Thwacks Reeks with a rolled up newspaper!*

    Bad rat! BAD!
  • Ferestor#5771Ferestor#5771 Registered Users Posts: 1,313
    I personaly wouldn't count out the CD and OK.

    They would fit better as a campaugn pack but we don't know what CA is planing.

    But for the three choices I hope it is not the LoN. Don´t really need him as his own race.

    Hobgoblin as a 2 LL pack like Norsca could work.

    DoW I see more as the last campaign pack. If I remenber correctly they use units from other factions/races right? so they would make more sense if the OK f.e. are already in the game.
  • Kouran_Darkhand#6365Kouran_Darkhand#6365 Registered Users Posts: 734
    Itharus said:

    The Hobgoblins are no way near important enough to recieve more than 2 lords.

    Before you spew such things, try actually reading up on the history of the region in question.

    Hobgoblins are a major faction in the East, and quite a large one at that. They terrorize the ENTIRE eastern continent, and are known to invade into the World's Edge Mountains, Southlands, Badlands, Araby, and even hit the Border Princes sometimes.

    In fact, they actually have more lore and models and what not about them than Cathay ever did (until GW just made it up for this game).

    So don't be so quick to write them off.
    If it’s about lore importance, then you should be advocating for Nagash.
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 3,429
    Everything that can be said against about Nagash could also be said for the Hobgoblins

    Legion of Undeath/Nagash only need 2 LL (Nagash and Drachenfell), making it able to stick to the formula, and they don't need many units, just mechanics where they can take up units and LL from other undeath roster (Unless they go the easy road and don't give Confederation but just Vassalisation)
  • Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Registered Users Posts: 1,571
    I know you wanna see this, too~

    #JusticeForTzeentch #JusticeForMonogods



    WH Novels:

    - Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
    - Gilead's Blood: 8/10
    - Riders of the Dead: 9/10
    - Empire in Chaos: 9/10
    - Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
    - Mark of Heresy: 7/10
    - G&F: Trollslayer: 8/10 (re-read)
    - G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
    - G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
    - G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
    - G&F: Beastslayer: 7.5/10
    - G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
    - G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
    - The Chronicles of Malus Darkblade vol. one: 8.5/10
    - Drachenfels: 6.5/10
    - Genevìeve Undead: 7.5/10
    - Silver Nails: 9.5/10
  • Wyvax#7456Wyvax#7456 Registered Users Posts: 6,592
    Ingr8 said:

    To suggest that these three are the "popular" theories is disingenuous.

    CD and Ogres are probably considered more likely by a lot of the forum than Nagash and/or hobgoblins.

    TBH, this thread was created partially because uriak's thread got closed down for having "to many conversations". I wanted a place for that melting pot of speculation to flourish.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    edited June 2021
    Nagash is popular on this forum. And that's it.

    The big issue with Nagash is people conflating an important character, with the need of a faction proper. If we ask what is this faction about, what can people answer ? There are already 3 undead factions and they have pretty strong themes, regardless of their leaders.

    VC are the classic vampire trope : vampires, their creatures of the night and an assortment of european undead fantasy : zombies, skeletons, specters, gouls, bats..

    TK are the Mummy undead ancient egyptians, with a similar approach to their armies plus all kind of fantasy egyptian tropes : sphinxes, scorpions, etc

    Vampirates are frigging undead pirates. Do I even have to explain ?

    Now, let's market Nagash. If this game had no undead, yeah, he would bring the evil undead faction of all kinds. Unfortunately, Nagash is not made to be the ultimate undead bringer, he's the precursor instead. Some units have been added in the ET, but Nagash's theme at best is "quasi god of death", so in a context where undeads are not in, yeah he would represent them (like in AoS) . But as I said, undeads are already present with 3 strong and pretty different themes.
    You can't really make a faction around this idea, it's like adding an "elven faction" in a setting where we already have Asur, Asrai and Druchii. In essence Nagash is almost like Elemental Death in a game with finer distinctions than that.

    As for the other 4 known candidates : people fear the "preorder" brand on their big factions, and I don't think indeed chorfs and ogres will be a preorder. DoW are popular among fans (though I honestly feel every minor thing becomes iconic at some point). I would support a real pike themed armies with mercenary embedded mechanic, the whole regiments are more a medley of fun things to add to other armies.

    Hobgobs are not a fan favorite (and I don't think them as iconic ) I support their inclusion because they flex very well with the context of this new game : they - like ogres- interact with chaos dwarfs both as foes and auxiliaries, they are one of the reasons for the great Bastion, they give us a legitimate presence in all this space between Cathay and wastes.

    And like other existing factions they have a theme : the steppe horde, but greenskins.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    This seems relevant to this discussion;


  • RJCPSRJCPS Registered Users Posts: 540

    This seems relevant to this discussion;


    its still focused on these 3 only...despite people's mental promotion of CDs to something big due to a mod, they're still relatively minor compared to proper 8th armies, and are a perfectly good candidate for the pre-order.

    The fact that some people want "more" from them than being a pre-order and are excluding them due to this fact from conversation, doesn't actually mean they are not likely to be it.
  • SerPus#7395SerPus#7395 Registered Users Posts: 11,764
    RJCPS said:

    they're still relatively minor compared to proper 8th armies

    They are one of the two biggest armies remaining.
  • RJCPSRJCPS Registered Users Posts: 540
    SerPus said:

    RJCPS said:

    they're still relatively minor compared to proper 8th armies

    They are one of the two biggest armies remaining.
    that does not contradict what i said.

    besides DoC and OK, there is no proper 8th left. hence the CD come along as the "biggest" after those 2. that just shows there are few majors missing, not CD is on par with the rest. Having an old army book and FW models places them higher than footnotes in some novel factions tho, hence my point. They are relevant enough to be a safe bet to be coming (specially considering the old datamine) but not as big as some fantasies i've seen floating around here.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    RJCPS said:

    SerPus said:

    RJCPS said:

    they're still relatively minor compared to proper 8th armies

    They are one of the two biggest armies remaining.
    that does not contradict what i said.

    besides DoC and OK, there is no proper 8th left. hence the CD come along as the "biggest" after those 2. that just shows there are few majors missing, not CD is on par with the rest. Having an old army book and FW models places them higher than footnotes in some novel factions tho, hence my point. They are relevant enough to be a safe bet to be coming (specially considering the old datamine) but not as big as some fantasies i've seen floating around here.
    CA confirmed they would add all 16 tabletop armies... now at the time there was only technically 15. So we have to assume they meant forgeworld Chaos Dwarfs as the 16th.

    Of course there is a tiny possibility they were talking about DoW as the 16th army... but that's unlikely.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    Don't get me wrong - I'd love the preorder to be Chaos Dwarfs... so Dogs of War can march straight into that Campaign pack :D
  • Grba#3181Grba#3181 Registered Users Posts: 725
    I wouldn't count out Nippon ether along with those 3 factions.Mostly their army would be samurai's with couple of monsters.
  • SerPus#7395SerPus#7395 Registered Users Posts: 11,764
    RJCPS said:

    that does not contradict what i said

    It shows that they are the best candidates for a campaign pack, alongside Ogres.
  • SerPus#7395SerPus#7395 Registered Users Posts: 11,764
    Ingr8 said:

    The only reason that I am now doubting whether DoW will come or not is the geographic issue.

    There is no geographic issue.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    Ingr8 said:

    Don't get me wrong - I'd love the preorder to be Chaos Dwarfs... so Dogs of War can march straight into that Campaign pack :D

    The only reason that I am now doubting whether DoW will come or not is the geographic issue. As Tilea etc are not likely to be on the game 3 map my feeling is that that ship may have sailed - it would be strange to see them tagged onto the proposed campaign map if they are meant to be based on Spain and the Italian city states
    Well for game 3 I guess they would have to lean more into the Mercenary theme then the Southern States theme. Indeed I imagine they might come as Demi-Hordes like the vampire coast (but for land).

    Also there is precedent here. We got Skaven in game 2 - where Skavenblight and Hellpit (the two biggest Skaven cities to my understanding) are both in the old world.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Registered Users Posts: 16,826
    Nagash works one of two ways.

    As a legendary hero for Arkhan/Neferata/Ushoran or some such.

    Or as a 1-LL faction that confederates (any) undead lords into his faction after he defeats them -- but he's going to be a horde faction just to spite YOU, yes you, SPECIFICALLY. You know who you are.

    ------

    And yes, I most certainly count Nippon out of the running for the preorder. I really do not believe the preorder will be another human faction.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Registered Users Posts: 10,986
    Itharus said:

    Nagash works one of two ways.

    As a legendary hero for Arkhan/Neferata/Ushoran or some such.

    Or as a 1-LL faction that confederates (any) undead lords into his faction after he defeats them -- but he's going to be a horde faction just to spite YOU, yes you, SPECIFICALLY. You know who you are.

    ------

    And yes, I most certainly count Nippon out of the running for the preorder. I really do not believe the preorder will be another human faction.

    A 1 LL faction which uses 90% of the same undead units we already have would be the worst possible thing they could label a 'race'. It's so insanely low effort CA might actually do it...
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