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Look, OP, just because you don't want Chaos Dwarfs to happen doesn't mean it isn't an option. I've seen a lot of people off these forums hold that as an opinion(conversely, off of these forums no one talks about Hobgoblins). Now, please, before you hit disagree, I don't want Chaos Dwarfs to be the pre order either! But to suggest they are not one of the "popular pre-order race theories" is silly.
You can't do Chaos Dwarfs on a pre-order race pack budget without gutting 60% of it.
I don't see how you can honestly say they're an option.
That's an overstatement in the extreme. The whole chaos dwarf side of the roster is easy peasy, only thing that's new is Fireglaives and even then they have experience with Streltsi now on how to do that sort of weapon. Hobgoblins would require new skeletons, as well as hobgoblin riders but that doesn't seem too difficult. I don't think the artillery is some herculean task, same with the Lamassu and Bull Centaurs. K'daii would certainly be very challenging, but I think it could be done. I am sure -something- would indeed be missing from the roster, but I really don't think it'd be that bad.
Okey lets count, chaos dwarf not gonna need excesive riggind and new animation but they will have complete remodel, at least middle tier. The hobos little bit easier will still be remodels even when moderate work.
Th siege giant, easily not only need some serious model work, also animation because he literally have no hands, so his attack must be diffrent from all the giant existing, yes he is a giant, but with no hands and complete new armor.
Bullcentaur, no question ask, even when ca not do new animation and just do centigor ones, they still need a complete remodel, is not gonna be just slap a chaos dwarf beard on a centigor and call it a day.
Infernalguard with fireglaive, need definitly new animation for there melee/skirmish weapon.
The great taurux, is hard to get the mino head of a manticore, so easily a complete remodel too, because we not have any real bulls in the game to reuse.
Deathshriek rocket launcher, yes they will just use the Helstorm Rocket Battery animation with some rig but the model is completely unique.
I could be go further and further but i think i made my point, that even the easiest pieces of them need remodeling, or complete new one, with few animation sprinkle in, that to much for a pre order to handle what we saw.
Woc, his was pretty much a lord pack that add some units, most of the roster was already there just not playable.
Norsca: bigger but really not that say (jupp ogre and cd easily could be realise with them)
Never mind that...it needs Campaign pack budget to do the Iron Daemon War Engine properly and the Kollossus.
Of course just show that even the "low" effort part of the cd need some serious work.
Not to mention the kadai destroyer, the fireborn, lammasu etc.
Is all serious work and need campagne pack budget easily to get that all in one pack.
Just because cd use some orc slave not and dwarf rig not mean they not have ton of unique stuff to work around.
Honestly, I don't see where the idea that a Nagash race pack is likely comes from. That's not happening. Stop and think about what such a race pack would actually entail for a minute, and some very obvious issues with it start cropping up...
If it were to be made a proper race DLC with plenty of new units invented by CA/GW, then it still wouldn't make sense for anything currently in the vampire counts roster to be missing from the faction.
If it contains the entire vampire counts roster, aside from the legendary lords, then why is it a race pack? In that case, it'd make more sense for Nagash to be part of a lord pack with a sub-faction that has access to some tomb kings units, like Arkhan gets access to some VC units, and Allarielle gets some WE units...
There would also need to be some additional lords as part of the faction. Who do they pick for the other 3? Arkhan, Nagash's number 2, isn't an option. They could do Neferata, but she makes more sense leading a vampire counts sub-faction... The same goes for most of the candidates. The only character that actually makes sense leading Nagash's roster is Nagash...
Norsca got a bunch of new units. It wasn't all re-skins: Ice trolls, Ice Wolves, Ice Wolf Chariots, Marauder champions(+variant), Fimir (+variant), and Mammoths all had unique animations.
Chaos Dwarfs would be more likely than Nagash, IMO... They can re-use a lot of Dwarf and Greenskin assets, and are a key faction on the game 3 map for a fairly large/central, map area... Hobgoblins are another good option for the same reasons. The units that would require new rigs for Chaos Dwarfs are K'Daai fireborn, K'daai destroyers, Iron Daemon War Engines, and maybe bull Centaur Renders (they might work with the dragon ogre rig, but have other weapon variants). The units that would need new animations are those + maybe some of the artillery, though artillery animations tend to be pretty simplistic compared to other units. It's pretty much on par with Norsca really. Ogres would have been a different matter, as everything in the roster would need new rigs/animations.
Dogs of War aren't the best option, as they're based in Tilea. I suspect we won't see them until after Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres, when the combined map is available.
Really, the options that make the most sense are either Chaos Dwarfs or Hobgoblins. I'd lean towards Chaos Dwarfs, as it's a more "official" faction with more material to work off of, and GW is already working with CA on fleshing out Kislev and Cathay. The need to go through GW for designs, approval, etc... would add some extra lag time on work for a Hobgoblin DLC that they just don't have to worry about to the same degree with Chaos Dwarfs. It might actually be more work to implement - either way, the two factions share some units, and there could very easily be a Hobgoblin focused sub-faction for Chaos Dwarfs, and if it is Chaos Dwarfs as the DLC, then some mixed Goblin/Hobgoblin factions could easily fill out the Hobgoblin Khanate regions until the faction gets fleshed out, if that ever happens.
Honestly, I don't see where the idea that a Nagash race pack is likely comes from. That's not happening. Stop and think about what such a race pack would actually entail for a minute, and some very obvious issues with it start cropping up...
If it were to be made a proper race DLC with plenty of new units invented by CA/GW, then it still wouldn't make sense for anything currently in the vampire counts roster to be missing from the faction.
If it contains the entire vampire counts roster, aside from the legendary lords, then why is it a race pack? In that case, it'd make more sense for Nagash to be part of a lord pack with a sub-faction that has access to some tomb kings units, like Arkhan gets access to some VC units, and Allarielle gets some WE units...
There would also need to be some additional lords as part of the faction. Who do they pick for the other 3? Arkhan, Nagash's number 2, isn't an option. They could do Neferata, but she makes more sense leading a vampire counts sub-faction... The same goes for most of the candidates. The only character that actually makes sense leading Nagash's roster is Nagash...
Norsca got a bunch of new units. It wasn't all re-skins: Ice trolls, Ice Wolves, Ice Wolf Chariots, Marauder champions(+variant), Fimir (+variant), and Mammoths all had unique animations.
Chaos Dwarfs would be more likely than Nagash, IMO... They can re-use a lot of Dwarf and Greenskin assets, and are a key faction on the game 3 map for a fairly large/central, map area... Hobgoblins are another good option for the same reasons. The units that would require new rigs for Chaos Dwarfs are K'Daai fireborn, K'daai destroyers, Iron Daemon War Engines, and maybe bull Centaur Renders (they might work with the dragon ogre rig, but have other weapon variants). The units that would need new animations are those + maybe some of the artillery, though artillery animations tend to be pretty simplistic compared to other units. It's pretty much on par with Norsca really. Ogres would have been a different matter, as everything in the roster would need new rigs/animations.
Dogs of War aren't the best option, as they're based in Tilea. I suspect we won't see them until after Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres, when the combined map is available.
Really, the options that make the most sense are either Chaos Dwarfs or Hobgoblins. I'd lean towards Chaos Dwarfs, as it's a more "official" faction with more material to work off of, and GW is already working with CA on fleshing out Kislev and Cathay. The need to go through GW for designs, approval, etc... would add some extra lag time on work for a Hobgoblin DLC that they just don't have to worry about to the same degree with Chaos Dwarfs. It might actually be more work to implement - either way, the two factions share some units, and there could very easily be a Hobgoblin focused sub-faction for Chaos Dwarfs, and if it is Chaos Dwarfs as the DLC, then some mixed Goblin/Hobgoblin factions could easily fill out the Hobgoblin Khanate regions until the faction gets fleshed out, if that ever happens.
Nagash The Nameless Dieter Helsnicht Walach Harkon
Easy four, if its Campaign pack level. With addition later of Neferata to Vampire Counts, all Mortarches are in.
Nagash The Nameless
if its 2 LL race pack.
Chaos Dwarves would need: -Cinderbreath -Lore of Hashut -Bull Centaurs -Great/Bale Taurus -Lamassu -Fireglaives -Blunderbusses -K'daai Fireborn -K'daai Destroyer -Iron Daemon War Engine and its carriages -Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher -Dreadquake Mortar -Chaos Siege Giant -Kollossus
All for new animations which is the most costly part.
Honestly, I don't see where the idea that a Nagash race pack is likely comes from...
Someone pointed out that the previous Race Packs were about on par with a Lord Pack as far as effort goes. Two-ish new lords (Wulfrik + Throgg, Sigvald + Kholek, Fay Enchantress + Alberic, plus Archaon and Louen Leoncoeur fleshed out) and a handful of new units added to a foundation of existing assets.
People then started looking at stuff that made sense at that level. I think Hobgoblin Khanates got a leg up when everyone assumed Choas Dwarfs would be a core race in game three (that way it could use their Hobgoblins as a spring board). I remember some also speculating about a sort of Chaos Warriors 2.0. I'm not sure when Undead Legions picked up steam, but they're more recent.
As for a second legendary lord, most people assume The Nameless (aka Constant Drachenfel's amnesic spirit). He gets namedropped (so to speak) in Cylostra Direfin's epilogue, and fits both as someone who could be subservient to Nagash (while he doesn't know who he was) and someone powerful enough to dominate (if he were to recover his sense of self).
The only race who directly fits the story is Albion. Who have a very close connection to Chaos...either against it or supporting it.
Nagash counts too, depends how they do his race.
Albion has zero presence in the east. They'd have to use a polar map of the north to include Albion.
I suspect the map, given that its twice as big as the Vortex, goes as far west as Albion just to include all of Norsca and South enough to include about as far as Reikland. The rest of the map is all North and East. That would be enough to include that, the Chaos Wastes, the Chaos Realms, the Darklands, Mountains of Mourn and Far East.
I thought Be'lakor was the leading theory actually.
Team Ogre Kingdoms
"We threatened to grind their bones up to make bread if they didn't pay. Course that's just a threat - it takes too long to grind 'em and most of this lot are just as 'appy to eat'em raw." -- Olag Skullcracker, Ogre Tyrant
I suspect the map, given that its twice as big as the Vortex, goes as far west as Albion just to include all of Norsca and South enough to include about as far as Reikland. The rest of the map is all North and East. That would be enough to include that, the Chaos Wastes, the Chaos Realms, the Darklands, Mountains of Mourn and Far East.
While I agree with speculation that the map will go farther west than most expect, Albion is really far.
My bet is to Middenheim, with an outside chance of up to Altdorf.
Including Albion, even if one assumes we don't have a normal north-south/east-west orientation, would require bits of Bretonnia and the Grey Mountains, which is really getting to be too much. (A lot of people even object to me saying that the World's End Mountains will all be included!) And I don't think it's possible to warp that part of the map to fit Albion, in the way they yanked Sartosa into the ocean for the Vortex map; you'd have to do the opposite and push the island inland.
(My proposed map)
(Bits in the yellow line are as seen in the trailer.)
I suspect the map, given that its twice as big as the Vortex, goes as far west as Albion just to include all of Norsca and South enough to include about as far as Reikland. The rest of the map is all North and East. That would be enough to include that, the Chaos Wastes, the Chaos Realms, the Darklands, Mountains of Mourn and Far East.
While I agree with speculation that the map will go farther west than most expect, Albion is really far.
My bet is to Middenheim, with an outside chance of up to Altdorf.
Including Albion, even if one assumes we don't have a normal north-south/east-west orientation, would require bits of Bretonnia and the Grey Mountains, which is really getting to be too much. (A lot of people even object to me saying that the World's End Mountains will all be included!) And I don't think it's possible to warp that part of the map to fit Albion, in the way they yanked Sartosa into the ocean for the Vortex map; you'd have to do the opposite and push the island inland.
(My proposed map)
(Bits in the yellow line are as seen in the trailer.)
It really depends and we won't know till we see the map. I think either way if Albion comes or not, its going to go that far mapwise. The vortex fit four large landmasses in, despite it being mostly water.
Honestly, I don't see where the idea that a Nagash race pack is likely comes from. That's not happening. Stop and think about what such a race pack would actually entail for a minute, and some very obvious issues with it start cropping up...
If it were to be made a proper race DLC with plenty of new units invented by CA/GW, then it still wouldn't make sense for anything currently in the vampire counts roster to be missing from the faction.
If it contains the entire vampire counts roster, aside from the legendary lords, then why is it a race pack? In that case, it'd make more sense for Nagash to be part of a lord pack with a sub-faction that has access to some tomb kings units, like Arkhan gets access to some VC units, and Allarielle gets some WE units...
There would also need to be some additional lords as part of the faction. Who do they pick for the other 3? Arkhan, Nagash's number 2, isn't an option. They could do Neferata, but she makes more sense leading a vampire counts sub-faction... The same goes for most of the candidates. The only character that actually makes sense leading Nagash's roster is Nagash...
Nagash The Nameless Dieter Helsnicht Walach Harkon
Walach Harkon would fit better as a VC lord than a lord in a Nagash faction.
That doesn't even touch on the roster problem though. If it includes the entire vampire counts roster, then it should not be a different faction, but it can't NOT include the entire vampire counts roster, because that wouldn't make sense for Nagash. He's just not "race pack" material. He'd work great for a lord pack though.
Chaos Dwarves would need: -Cinderbreath (is a Bale Taurus) -Lore of Hashut -Bull Centaurs (3 potential variants; one could probably use the dragon ogre animations.) -Great/Bale Taurus -Lamassu -Fireglaives -Blunderbusses -K'daai Fireborn -K'daai Destroyer -Iron Daemon War Engine and its carriages -Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher -Dreadquake Mortar -Chaos Siege Giant -Kollossus (Is a variant of K'daai destroyer)
All for new animations which is the most costly part.
Lore of Hashut will likely use mostly existing animations, just with new colors. Hell Hammer could be basically Pendulum, but with a Hammer in place of the Pendulum.
Fireglaives are basically thunderers with axe-bayonets instead of shields. They'd only need a few melee animations at most, assuming they don't just use the Dwarf great weapon animations (which they could do). Blunderbusses are in sort of the same boat. There's no reason for the basic animation to be notably different from thunderers (or maybe iron drakes w/ trollhammer torpedos actually... hmm) - it doesn't require an entirely new rig and animation set, just more projectiles.
Chaos Siege giants are still giants. They just have armour and metal hook claws instead of a club. It'd only need new animations for certain attacks.
Rockets and mortars are artillery - the model might be unique, but the animation rig doesn't really need to be, and new projectiles aren't the same as a new animation rig, especially if they can just be re-sized copies of existing projectiles.
The Lamassu and Bale Taurus could use mostly the same animations, and could likely use the Manticore rig and many of the same animations, as they have similar proportions.
Norsca was less, but Norsca likely had less development time and integration problems because it was made for game 1, but needed to be updated for game 2. The game 3 preorder race doesn't have either issue, as it's only for game 3.
For Norsca it was: - ice Wolves - Fimir (Hero, dual weapon, great weapon) - skin wolves - wolf chariots - Ice Trolls - Mammoths - Marauder berserkers - Marauder axe throwers - marauders hunters - marauder spearmen - Marauder champions? (I think they just use the warriors of chaos/chosen animations)
Fimir, Skin Wolves, and Mammoths needed entirely new rigs, while the rest likely just needed new animations attached to existing rigs. Ice Wolves/ice chariots, and Berserkers may have used new rigs as well.
The list is actually pretty similar to what'd be needed for Chaos Dwarfs (10-11 vs ~13, using your list minus Cinderbreath, because there's no reason Cinderbreath would have different animations than a regular Taurus/Bale Taurus). It's not quite as much, but... it's not that far off.
My main point is that Nagash as the preorder DLC makes no sense though, not that Chaos Dwarfs is the most likely. Chaos Dwarfs is more likely than a lot of people seem to think, using the criteria of "requiring a similar amount of work to Norsca". It's easily top 4 for the preorder, alongside maybe Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
Nagash just seems like fan wishlisting to me. His faction would either suffer from roster bloat and being basically VC+, or not make sense given the lore, because his armies are supposed to be combined Vampire Counts/Tomb Kings armies. The only unique units to Nagash are the Morghasts, which came in the end times.
Youtubers already know the answer, so we'll probably find out in a week or two what the preorder faction is.
I thought Be'lakor was the leading theory actually.
Be'Lakor is the leading theory for the 9th legendary lord, as the leader of an "undivided" Chaos Daemons faction, seeing as that's usually something he does in the lore.
With the assumption of how pre-orders have worked in the past: Nagash or Dogs of War seem most realistic, perhaps Hobgoblins, but Chaos Dwarves or Ogres are a complete no-go unless they have allocated far more time and money to the pre-order than ever before. Even then, both Chaos Dwarves and Ogres seem like excellent candidates for campaign packs as big headliners for a DLC so it would be a bit of a waste of a good DLC candidate likely from a corporate standpoint.
Unless its Campaign Pack-budget, it wouldn't even cover HALF of the Chaos Dwarves.
I seriously not get why that so hard to believe.
Norsca yes got some remodel but they were really light, like come one..
Yes they got some new armor pieces but that not scream (remodel easy for cd)
Also no, the BULLS ARE NOT, remodel manticore and not look similar.
Manticore is a flying lion the great tauros is a Bull!, with complete own body, yes i mention manticore could work for them but i say it more like is a real stretch to think the Manticore rig would fit.
Lamasu yes make sense they i not argue about, but some might froget how expensive remodel are!
Is pure fact that Models are something ca not just give away.
Being a complete model still need money, is still expensive.
Why cd need to be cheap done anyway? when there alternative?
I not argue for every unit being a expensive real model and that have over the top animation.
I just not see since when ca give out models like candy all the sudden, especially that CD have easily enough centerpiece units like the tomb kings.
Seee i agree with all (we propaly) have a higher budget on this front, i is of couse not confirm but wouldn't suprise me.
But norsca just not look something a main army book or a big minor race would really fit.
Even when we double, i mean i not complain ive ca really pull out a campagne pack right of the back, i not argue, but that make business no sense.
And any way ogre and cd are in high demand why waste one of them?
Honestly, I don't see where the idea that a Nagash race pack is likely comes from. That's not happening. Stop and think about what such a race pack would actually entail for a minute, and some very obvious issues with it start cropping up...
If it were to be made a proper race DLC with plenty of new units invented by CA/GW, then it still wouldn't make sense for anything currently in the vampire counts roster to be missing from the faction.
If it contains the entire vampire counts roster, aside from the legendary lords, then why is it a race pack? In that case, it'd make more sense for Nagash to be part of a lord pack with a sub-faction that has access to some tomb kings units, like Arkhan gets access to some VC units, and Allarielle gets some WE units...
There would also need to be some additional lords as part of the faction. Who do they pick for the other 3? Arkhan, Nagash's number 2, isn't an option. They could do Neferata, but she makes more sense leading a vampire counts sub-faction... The same goes for most of the candidates. The only character that actually makes sense leading Nagash's roster is Nagash...
Norsca got a bunch of new units. It wasn't all re-skins: Ice trolls, Ice Wolves, Ice Wolf Chariots, Marauder champions(+variant), Fimir (+variant), and Mammoths all had unique animations.
Chaos Dwarfs would be more likely than Nagash, IMO... They can re-use a lot of Dwarf and Greenskin assets, and are a key faction on the game 3 map for a fairly large/central, map area... Hobgoblins are another good option for the same reasons. The units that would require new rigs for Chaos Dwarfs are K'Daai fireborn, K'daai destroyers, Iron Daemon War Engines, and maybe bull Centaur Renders (they might work with the dragon ogre rig, but have other weapon variants). The units that would need new animations are those + maybe some of the artillery, though artillery animations tend to be pretty simplistic compared to other units. It's pretty much on par with Norsca really. Ogres would have been a different matter, as everything in the roster would need new rigs/animations.
Dogs of War aren't the best option, as they're based in Tilea. I suspect we won't see them until after Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres, when the combined map is available.
Really, the options that make the most sense are either Chaos Dwarfs or Hobgoblins. I'd lean towards Chaos Dwarfs, as it's a more "official" faction with more material to work off of, and GW is already working with CA on fleshing out Kislev and Cathay. The need to go through GW for designs, approval, etc... would add some extra lag time on work for a Hobgoblin DLC that they just don't have to worry about to the same degree with Chaos Dwarfs. It might actually be more work to implement - either way, the two factions share some units, and there could very easily be a Hobgoblin focused sub-faction for Chaos Dwarfs, and if it is Chaos Dwarfs as the DLC, then some mixed Goblin/Hobgoblin factions could easily fill out the Hobgoblin Khanate regions until the faction gets fleshed out, if that ever happens.
Nagash The Nameless Dieter Helsnicht Walach Harkon
Easy four, if its Campaign pack level. With addition later of Neferata to Vampire Counts, all Mortarches are in.
Nagash The Nameless
if its 2 LL race pack.
Chaos Dwarves would need: -Cinderbreath -Lore of Hashut -Bull Centaurs -Great/Bale Taurus -Lamassu -Fireglaives -Blunderbusses -K'daai Fireborn -K'daai Destroyer -Iron Daemon War Engine and its carriages -Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher -Dreadquake Mortar -Chaos Siege Giant -Kollossus
All for new animations which is the most costly part.
Even on a Campaign Pack's budget, Chaos Dwarves won't get the Kolossus. It's an obscure half-fanmade unit that appeared in one supplement.
Even on a Campaign Pack's budget, Chaos Dwarves won't get the Kolossus. It's an obscure half-fanmade unit that appeared in one supplement.
One might say the same about this though;
One would be wrong because the Hierotitan is from Monstrous Arcanum, an official Forge World supplement, while as far as I can find, the Kolossus is from an old BL book.
EDIT: Actually it seems like the Hierotitan was from the army book proper, not Monstrous Arcanum.
I think the Kolossus has a fair chance as it'll fulfil the same function as the Rotting Leviathan does for Vampire Coast. A near-complete Artillery focus means it needs a big SEM that can distract/disrupt the opponent to keep the guns firing.
I think the Kolossus has a fair chance as it'll fulfil the same function as the Rotting Leviathan does for Vampire Coast. A near-complete Artillery focus means it needs a big SEM that can distract/disrupt the opponent to keep the guns firing.
But CD already have K'daii Destroyers, Siege Giants and Lammasus as big SEMs !
Comments
Not to mention the kadai destroyer, the fireborn, lammasu etc.
Is all serious work and need campagne pack budget easily to get that all in one pack.
Just because cd use some orc slave not and dwarf rig not mean they not have ton of unique stuff to work around.
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1 · 3Disagree 1AgreeFourteen comments removed.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThe Nameless
Dieter Helsnicht
Walach Harkon
Easy four, if its Campaign pack level. With addition later of Neferata to Vampire Counts, all Mortarches are in.
Nagash
The Nameless
if its 2 LL race pack.
Chaos Dwarves would need:
-Cinderbreath
-Lore of Hashut
-Bull Centaurs
-Great/Bale Taurus
-Lamassu
-Fireglaives
-Blunderbusses
-K'daai Fireborn
-K'daai Destroyer
-Iron Daemon War Engine and its carriages
-Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher
-Dreadquake Mortar
-Chaos Siege Giant
-Kollossus
All for new animations which is the most costly part.
- Report
6 · 2Disagree 6AgreePeople then started looking at stuff that made sense at that level. I think Hobgoblin Khanates got a leg up when everyone assumed Choas Dwarfs would be a core race in game three (that way it could use their Hobgoblins as a spring board). I remember some also speculating about a sort of Chaos Warriors 2.0. I'm not sure when Undead Legions picked up steam, but they're more recent.
As for a second legendary lord, most people assume The Nameless (aka Constant Drachenfel's amnesic spirit). He gets namedropped (so to speak) in Cylostra Direfin's epilogue, and fits both as someone who could be subservient to Nagash (while he doesn't know who he was) and someone powerful enough to dominate (if he were to recover his sense of self).
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1 · 1Disagree 1Agree"We threatened to grind their bones up to make bread if they didn't pay. Course that's just a threat - it takes too long to grind 'em and most of this lot are just as 'appy to eat'em raw." -- Olag Skullcracker, Ogre Tyrant
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9 · 3Disagree 9AgreeMy bet is to Middenheim, with an outside chance of up to Altdorf.
Including Albion, even if one assumes we don't have a normal north-south/east-west orientation, would require bits of Bretonnia and the Grey Mountains, which is really getting to be too much. (A lot of people even object to me saying that the World's End Mountains will all be included!) And I don't think it's possible to warp that part of the map to fit Albion, in the way they yanked Sartosa into the ocean for the Vortex map; you'd have to do the opposite and push the island inland.
(My proposed map)
(Bits in the yellow line are as seen in the trailer.)
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0 · Disagree AgreeThat doesn't even touch on the roster problem though. If it includes the entire vampire counts roster, then it should not be a different faction, but it can't NOT include the entire vampire counts roster, because that wouldn't make sense for Nagash. He's just not "race pack" material. He'd work great for a lord pack though. Lore of Hashut will likely use mostly existing animations, just with new colors. Hell Hammer could be basically Pendulum, but with a Hammer in place of the Pendulum.
Fireglaives are basically thunderers with axe-bayonets instead of shields. They'd only need a few melee animations at most, assuming they don't just use the Dwarf great weapon animations (which they could do).
Blunderbusses are in sort of the same boat. There's no reason for the basic animation to be notably different from thunderers (or maybe iron drakes w/ trollhammer torpedos actually... hmm) - it doesn't require an entirely new rig and animation set, just more projectiles.
Chaos Siege giants are still giants. They just have armour and metal hook claws instead of a club. It'd only need new animations for certain attacks.
Rockets and mortars are artillery - the model might be unique, but the animation rig doesn't really need to be, and new projectiles aren't the same as a new animation rig, especially if they can just be re-sized copies of existing projectiles.
The Lamassu and Bale Taurus could use mostly the same animations, and could likely use the Manticore rig and many of the same animations, as they have similar proportions.
Norsca was less, but Norsca likely had less development time and integration problems because it was made for game 1, but needed to be updated for game 2. The game 3 preorder race doesn't have either issue, as it's only for game 3.
For Norsca it was:
- ice Wolves
- Fimir (Hero, dual weapon, great weapon)
- skin wolves
- wolf chariots
- Ice Trolls
- Mammoths
- Marauder berserkers
- Marauder axe throwers
- marauders hunters
- marauder spearmen
- Marauder champions? (I think they just use the warriors of chaos/chosen animations)
Fimir, Skin Wolves, and Mammoths needed entirely new rigs, while the rest likely just needed new animations attached to existing rigs. Ice Wolves/ice chariots, and Berserkers may have used new rigs as well.
The list is actually pretty similar to what'd be needed for Chaos Dwarfs (10-11 vs ~13, using your list minus Cinderbreath, because there's no reason Cinderbreath would have different animations than a regular Taurus/Bale Taurus). It's not quite as much, but... it's not that far off.
My main point is that Nagash as the preorder DLC makes no sense though, not that Chaos Dwarfs is the most likely. Chaos Dwarfs is more likely than a lot of people seem to think, using the criteria of "requiring a similar amount of work to Norsca". It's easily top 4 for the preorder, alongside maybe Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
Nagash just seems like fan wishlisting to me. His faction would either suffer from roster bloat and being basically VC+, or not make sense given the lore, because his armies are supposed to be combined Vampire Counts/Tomb Kings armies. The only unique units to Nagash are the Morghasts, which came in the end times.
Youtubers already know the answer, so we'll probably find out in a week or two what the preorder faction is. Be'Lakor is the leading theory for the 9th legendary lord, as the leader of an "undivided" Chaos Daemons faction, seeing as that's usually something he does in the lore.
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2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeNagash or Dogs of War seem most realistic, perhaps Hobgoblins, but Chaos Dwarves or Ogres are a complete no-go unless they have allocated far more time and money to the pre-order than ever before.
Even then, both Chaos Dwarves and Ogres seem like excellent candidates for campaign packs as big headliners for a DLC so it would be a bit of a waste of a good DLC candidate likely from a corporate standpoint.
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeNorsca yes got some remodel but they were really light, like come one..
Yes they got some new armor pieces but that not scream (remodel easy for cd)
Also no, the BULLS ARE NOT, remodel manticore and not look similar.
Manticore is a flying lion the great tauros is a Bull!, with complete own body, yes i mention manticore could work for them but i say it more like is a real stretch to think the Manticore rig would fit.
Lamasu yes make sense they i not argue about, but some might froget how expensive remodel are!
Is pure fact that Models are something ca not just give away.
Being a complete model still need money, is still expensive.
Why cd need to be cheap done anyway? when there alternative?
I not argue for every unit being a expensive real model and that have over the top animation.
I just not see since when ca give out models like candy all the sudden, especially that CD have easily enough centerpiece units like the tomb kings.
Seee i agree with all (we propaly) have a higher budget on this front, i is of couse not confirm but wouldn't suprise me.
But norsca just not look something a main army book or a big minor race would really fit.
Even when we double, i mean i not complain ive ca really pull out a campagne pack right of the back, i not argue, but that make business no sense.
And any way ogre and cd are in high demand why waste one of them?
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1 · 4Disagree 1AgreeEDIT: Actually it seems like the Hierotitan was from the army book proper, not Monstrous Arcanum.
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