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Game 3 Vampire count DLC featuring Neferata, who will she be paired against?

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  • Ekix#9944Ekix#9944 Registered Users Posts: 1,992
    edited July 2021
    Ushoran, Vorag or The Black Prince Strigoi LL is more interesting, strigoi release the beast, they are physically stronger, they may have new stronger ghouls and new, vargulf and vargheist types... and ranged units of half ghouls and mortals followers.

    Neferata is not that great, sge would have similar hypnotic powers to Cylostra and not much else to bring.

    new Undead Legion:
    Nagash (unlockable for beating game with Undead Legion)
    The Nameless
    Dieter Helsnicht
    Neferata
    Dread King or Walach Harkon

    And also give a quest possibility to other mortachs to access/join some Undead Legion recruiting privileges.

    DLCs for VC BLOODLINES:
    /Necrachs:Zacharias, Melkhior, Radu the forsaken /Strigoi:Ushoran, Vorag The Ghoul King, Gashnag The Black Prince, Rametep /Blood Dragon:Red Duke, Abhorash /Lahmia:zNitocris, Ulrika, Naaima

  • Ekix#9944Ekix#9944 Registered Users Posts: 1,992
    Strigoi are more interesting, they mayy get stronger crypt horrors and new types of ghouls, its saif their mortals were addicts to be rewarded with vamp blood, they may have half ghouls or neophite ghouls able to be elite ranged units.

    new Undead Legion:
    Nagash (unlockable for beating game with Undead Legion)
    The Nameless
    Dieter Helsnicht
    Neferata
    Dread King or Walach Harkon

    And also give a quest possibility to other mortachs to access/join some Undead Legion recruiting privileges.

    DLCs for VC BLOODLINES:
    /Necrachs:Zacharias, Melkhior, Radu the forsaken /Strigoi:Ushoran, Vorag The Ghoul King, Gashnag The Black Prince, Rametep /Blood Dragon:Red Duke, Abhorash /Lahmia:zNitocris, Ulrika, Naaima

  • SafironDracolich#6190SafironDracolich#6190 Registered Users Posts: 439

    What LL do you think Neferata should be paired against as well as is most likely to be paired against in a game 3 LP featuring her?

    Nagash in the TKs.
    Abmong said:

    Nagash fanboys with hate this, but it actually makes sense for Nagash to be a Tombkings LL. That way, Tombkings can be in WH3 story campaign. If Nagash is TK with VC units he can confed Arkhan, his most obvious follower.

    That's all correct.
    As for me, it's...difficult..
    Because the Kings hate him, there is no point in talking about vampires because they will have Neferat anyway. It's just...if you think about it, Nagash is the most important character in the setting, just like Neferata. But if it is possible to realize Neferatu, then it will be difficult with Nagash...after all, if you think about it, he stopped living in Nehekhara long ago, and what is more...he has not been one of the King of Nehekhara for a long time. And then it makes more sense to make him his own race of the undead, like the Legions of the Undead. And then, in theory, he should already have his own mechanics, architecture and army as well. What I even think is that the Skeletons of the Kings will not go after Nagash and that because they are sentient undead.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231

    What LL do you think Neferata should be paired against as well as is most likely to be paired against in a game 3 LP featuring her?

    Nagash in the TKs.
    Abmong said:

    Nagash fanboys with hate this, but it actually makes sense for Nagash to be a Tombkings LL. That way, Tombkings can be in WH3 story campaign. If Nagash is TK with VC units he can confed Arkhan, his most obvious follower.

    That's all correct.
    As for me, it's...difficult..
    Because the Kings hate him, there is no point in talking about vampires because they will have Neferat anyway.
    Nagash had his supporters amongst the Tomb Kings and they continue to support him now in undeath.

    Think about it more like a civil war, Nagash leads his own faction of the TK.
  • Erathil#3988Erathil#3988 Registered Users Posts: 1,490
    Even in just 8th Edition GW went back and forward about who actually liked Nagash.

    In the Vampire army book it stated that Mannfred and Neferata had been working for years to resurrect him, but the End Times understood that this was a horribly stupid motivation for a vampire and threw that out the window for both of them.

    Mannfred wanted to steal Nagash's power and figured the best way to do that was to work with Arkhan, enable his return, but hijack the ritual and claim Nagash's power or soul or magic for himself, likely destroying the Great Necromancer in the process (Mannfred isn't terribly bright, has a primal attraction to the concept of betrayal, and just got played by Arkhan).

    Neferata was half a continent away, engaged in all sorts of shenanigans designed to hamper and cripple Mannfred before this ill-conceived plot was hatched, and only joined Nagash after he was already resurrected because she believed Nagash could and would destroy her if she didn't. She even secured Valaya as a peace offering to him because she suspected he still wanted to destroy her for abandoning him the last time she was a Mortarch.

    It's one of those weird points when the End Times writing got characterization right.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231
    Erathil said:

    Even in just 8th Edition GW went back and forward about who actually liked Nagash.

    Yeah well Nagash is the biggest Marty Sue of the setting and really hamstrung the development of the undead.
  • Erathil#3988Erathil#3988 Registered Users Posts: 1,490
    OdTengri said:

    Erathil said:

    Even in just 8th Edition GW went back and forward about who actually liked Nagash.

    Yeah well Nagash is the biggest Marty Sue of the setting and really hamstrung the development of the undead.
    Nagash works really well as a looming threat. The sort of 'if this guy is reincarnated then the End Times are upon us' sort of escalation.

    The problem is he is so much less interesting once he's actually there. He becomes just a kind of cheesy one-note villain.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231
    Erathil said:

    OdTengri said:

    Erathil said:

    Even in just 8th Edition GW went back and forward about who actually liked Nagash.

    Yeah well Nagash is the biggest Marty Sue of the setting and really hamstrung the development of the undead.
    Nagash works really well as a looming threat. The sort of 'if this guy is reincarnated then the End Times are upon us' sort of escalation.

    The problem is he is so much less interesting once he's actually there. He becomes just a kind of cheesy one-note villain.
    Honestly though he's billed as a comparable threat to the world as Chaos itself, he's a one man anti-chaos god and he's singlehandedly responsible for every single development of undeath in the world... except some tidbits of oldhammer lore that makes it entirely clear that undeath as a phenomena existed prior to his existence.
  • IamNotArobot#8850IamNotArobot#8850 Registered Users Posts: 5,758
    Tomb Kings Apophas vs Neferata
    TK/VC rework
    *Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
    *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
    *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
    *Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
    *Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
    *Improve UI


  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,823
    So Mannfred is the Starscream of the Warhammer Fantasy universe.

    Huh.
  • DarthEnderX-#6513DarthEnderX-#6513 Registered Users Posts: 5,278
    edited July 2021
    OdTengri said:

    Yeah well Nagash is the biggest Marty Sue of the setting

    Oh yeah. He's got that famous Marty Stu quality of getting destroyed over and over...
    Sephlock said:

    So Mannfred is the Starscream of the Warhammer Fantasy universe.

    Well, him and every Skaven ever.
    "Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
  • Lord_Zarkov#7252Lord_Zarkov#7252 Registered Users Posts: 2,032
    Erathil said:

    Even in just 8th Edition GW went back and forward about who actually liked Nagash.

    In the Vampire army book it stated that Mannfred and Neferata had been working for years to resurrect him, but the End Times understood that this was a horribly stupid motivation for a vampire and threw that out the window for both of them.

    Mannfred wanted to steal Nagash's power and figured the best way to do that was to work with Arkhan, enable his return, but hijack the ritual and claim Nagash's power or soul or magic for himself, likely destroying the Great Necromancer in the process (Mannfred isn't terribly bright, has a primal attraction to the concept of betrayal, and just got played by Arkhan).

    Neferata was half a continent away, engaged in all sorts of shenanigans designed to hamper and cripple Mannfred before this ill-conceived plot was hatched, and only joined Nagash after he was already resurrected because she believed Nagash could and would destroy her if she didn't. She even secured Valaya as a peace offering to him because she suspected he still wanted to destroy her for abandoning him the last time she was a Mortarch.

    It's one of those weird points when the End Times writing got characterization right.

    Tbf the first End Times book (Nagash) was actually pretty good - fairly interesting plot, generally good characterisation and things were mostly logically set up when they did go in strange directions.

    Book 2 (Glottkin) was ok, not brilliant but not awful either and the final showdown at Altdorf was pretty cool.

    It was Book 3 (Khaine) where things really went off the boil and it was kind of downhill from there.
  • VictuzVictuz Sao Paulo, BrazilRegistered Users Posts: 445

    SerPus said:

    Abhorash could be a LL paired against her for a VC vs Tomb kings LP

    Wait, what?
    My bad meant to say Apophas because he's the main missing Tomb kings. Not Abhorash mixed up the names.
    I would like to see Tutankhanut also, but he has a short lore sadly.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231
    Victuz said:

    SerPus said:

    Abhorash could be a LL paired against her for a VC vs Tomb kings LP

    Wait, what?
    My bad meant to say Apophas because he's the main missing Tomb kings. Not Abhorash mixed up the names.
    I would like to see Tutankhanut also, but he has a short lore sadly.
    I want to see Sehenesmet whos interred in a Bone Giant/Heirotitan.
  • ScionOfTheEmperor#1907ScionOfTheEmperor#1907 Registered Users Posts: 461
    I think Kislev.
    Neferata has has a lot of problems with Kislev as it's one of the only nations her Lahmians have been unable to infiltrate effectively and the Kislevites hate her.
  • TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Junior Member Earth´s core... doing things you will never know aboutRegistered Users Posts: 1,580
    Apophas is unsuitable as a lord and faction leader for many reasons.

    The leader of the TK update should be Ramhotep, a necrotect lord and Tutankhanut, a ranged lord. Apophas as LH.
  • Helhound#7332Helhound#7332 Registered Users Posts: 5,374
    I know Ulrika commonly gets shuffled off as a relatively minor character, and she is, but an Ulrika vs Neferata DLC has the potential to be awesome. Both would be somewhat hybrid faction. Neferata being a Vampire Count with access to some Tomb King units, and Ulrika being a Kislev lord with access to some Vampire Count forces. Ulrika could bring along various monsters of the Kislev wilderness, like Frostfiends, and Neferata could bring along the various Spirit Host forces that are missing. Dread Abyssals for a big centerpiece.

    They both start off relatively distant from each other. Ulrika occupying the far side of Kislev opposite to the Worlds Edge Mountains that Neferata currently resides in. A rivalry between the two also isn't hard to imagine, as Ulrika is technically a Lahmian Vampiress now (debatable since a Von Carstein turned her), and Neferata's not exactly tolerant to strays. Their struggle could be one for control over the Lahmian Sisterhood.
  • MadDokta#6766MadDokta#6766 Registered Users Posts: 456
    Make Ulrika a VC LL then. I don't like wasting a race's LL slot by putting a character from another 'race' into it. It's like when people suggest the second (or a future) LL for Cathay should be a Tzeentchian cultist. We have an entire Tzeentch faction for that, don't waste Cathayan slots on a Chaos worshipper. Besides, why would anyone in Kislev follow a vampire?
  • kratostatic#8948kratostatic#8948 Registered Users Posts: 1,053
    MadDokta said:

    Make Ulrika a VC LL then. I don't like wasting a race's LL slot by putting a character from another 'race' into it. It's like when people suggest the second (or a future) LL for Cathay should be a Tzeentchian cultist. We have an entire Tzeentch faction for that, don't waste Cathayan slots on a Chaos worshipper. Besides, why would anyone in Kislev follow a vampire?

    Can we pretty please stop dumping randoms in the Vampire Counts?? And stop doubling up on bloodlines when there's still going to be 2.5 bloodlines without a LL after a potential Lahmian LP?

    Yes she's a Vampire. She's also a Kislevite, usually loyal to Kislev and absolutely opposed to the Vampire Counts in general and the Lahmians in particular once we get past her being initially turned. And I don't think it is remotely common knowledge among Kislevites that she is a Vampire.

    And before you bring up Drycha - she opposes and is opposed by the actual Wood Elf chunk, but the "Wood Elves" includes the Forest spirits and the wildlife chunks, which she is very much pro.

    Make her an LH if need be. You could maybe even make her an LH that can be available to either side. Hell, let's make her the maguffin for the LP's story. But let's not take a character from a race with precious few characters and dump her into one stuffed full of them just because there's the slightest ambiguity as to which one of the two fits best.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Forlì, ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 3,059
    Crajoh said:

    I could see an interesting three way;
    Neferata DLC
    Dwarf DLC with focus on retaking the silver pinnacle
    Tomb Kings minirework with focus on Khalida

    Would put three races into the WH3 map.

    A Neferata, Khalida and Josef Bugman would indeed be an interesting three way.
    The Queen and the Brewer.
  • MadDokta#6766MadDokta#6766 Registered Users Posts: 456

    MadDokta said:

    Make Ulrika a VC LL then. I don't like wasting a race's LL slot by putting a character from another 'race' into it. It's like when people suggest the second (or a future) LL for Cathay should be a Tzeentchian cultist. We have an entire Tzeentch faction for that, don't waste Cathayan slots on a Chaos worshipper. Besides, why would anyone in Kislev follow a vampire?

    Can we pretty please stop dumping randoms in the Vampire Counts?? And stop doubling up on bloodlines when there's still going to be 2.5 bloodlines without a LL after a potential Lahmian LP?

    Yes she's a Vampire. She's also a Kislevite, usually loyal to Kislev and absolutely opposed to the Vampire Counts in general and the Lahmians in particular once we get past her being initially turned. And I don't think it is remotely common knowledge among Kislevites that she is a Vampire.

    And before you bring up Drycha - she opposes and is opposed by the actual Wood Elf chunk, but the "Wood Elves" includes the Forest spirits and the wildlife chunks, which she is very much pro.

    Make her an LH if need be. You could maybe even make her an LH that can be available to either side. Hell, let's make her the maguffin for the LP's story. But let's not take a character from a race with precious few characters and dump her into one stuffed full of them just because there's the slightest ambiguity as to which one of the two fits best.
    I'm not actually suggesting Ulrika be a VC LL. I just don't think she should be a priority for Kislev when there are better character/character archetypes to go after. People were suggesting that she have a hybrid roster of Kislev and VC units, which obviously would mean she wasn't utterly opposed to the VCs if she was still willing to raise up the dead and stuff.

    And why would I bring up Drycha? Drycha is part of the Wood Elves Armybook, she's a Wood Elf LL. Sure, her unique stances should give her more of a limited roster (which isn't a detriment in itself, just makes things play differenly). But she is an actual armybook character. Ulrika isn't. She's a Black Library/Gotrekverse character. At most she should maybe be a LH, a unique agent.

    Note that I'm not actually super opposed to Ulrika as a character, I just don't think she should take priority in the LL list simply because she's a 'known' Kislevite character. And having her lead a potential LP against Neferata sounds bad to me. VC vs VCLite? What Kislevite units would she even introduce? Kostaltyn's introduction shows that they're not afraid to make new characters for this new rendition of Kislev, so they don't have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for named characters.
  • Labria#2848Labria#2848 Registered Users Posts: 2,234
    I think we will get Vampire Count vs Nurgle. Death vs Life is perfect theme for lord pack.
  • MadDokta#6766MadDokta#6766 Registered Users Posts: 456
    My post got completely swallowed up by this weird forum a few hours ago and I can't be arsed to write it all out again so I'm hoping it just pops back up eventually.
  • Wyvax#7456Wyvax#7456 Registered Users Posts: 6,260
    Labria said:

    I think we will get Vampire Count vs Nurgle. Death vs Life is perfect theme for lord pack.

    That's actually a pretty good and rather under the radar match up. Might I suggest the Necrarchs with Zacharias the Everliving, as they're all about creating these Frankenstein undead abominations which is a nice contrast to Nurgle spewing forth virulent life. Neferata seems like the kind of character that would get matched up against an order race in a LP, just my gut feeling.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Forlì, ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 3,059
    Crajoh said:

    I could see an interesting three way;
    Neferata DLC
    Dwarf DLC with focus on retaking the silver pinnacle
    Tomb Kings minirework with focus on Khalida

    Would put three races into the WH3 map.

    A Neferata, Khalida and Josef Bugman would indeed be an interesting three way.
    The Queen and the Brewer.
    Wyvax said:

    Labria said:

    I think we will get Vampire Count vs Nurgle. Death vs Life is perfect theme for lord pack.

    That's actually a pretty good and rather under the radar match up. Might I suggest the Necrarchs with Zacharias the Everliving, as they're all about creating these Frankenstein undead abominations which is a nice contrast to Nurgle spewing forth virulent life. Neferata seems like the kind of character that would get matched up against an order race in a LP, just my gut feeling.
    The Doctor and the Diseased.
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