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Thoughts on Chameleon Stalkers ?

245

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  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,983
    edited July 2021
    A $400 unit trying to scam for $600 what a frikking joke. Thats NOT considering they suicide ur 360 slot. Pathetic unit, I dont think theres even any unit as bad as this, the dmg is worse than anything in game, worse than miners, worse than javelins, any burst miner type unit in game u seen r trillions miles shead of them.

    Shockingly bad, really, really bad. The level of uselessness blew everything up in the skies.
    First off they r regular skinks, whom r among some of the weakest chaff in game but lets not go in depth into that.

    Analysis goes

    Basically a skink.
    So $300
    For +$375 u get an attack worse than miners, worse than jav. Which r both 400-425.

    Ok thats fine so ure factually worth 375, considering ur range attack.
    That’s alright only $300 overpriced, u can fix that with dmg, stats price cut etc

    Then comes 2 ammo and 360.

    Ill leave CA to figure that out, that is blatantly stupid.

    In the entire history of this game, no unit has been as horrific as this. None. Theres no equal, u can find the worst unit in game and this blows them up x 10 folds
    Post edited by yst#1879 on
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  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    edited July 2021

    They look like they're designed as backline disruptors, especially for artillery. Ranged attack will do well vs the type of infantry left to guard artillery and high MD + physical resist will help them muck up a backline once they get in.

    Only thing that seems a bit dubious is the 360 shooting, probably intended to stop too many 360 kite builds but not sure if it is warranted considering the strength of the ranged attack.

    Not warranted at all considering they have 2 ammo and you can’t even choose what they’re going to shoot. And why bring them for back line disruption when I can just bring chameleons or terradons?

    Oh and they cost 675 not 600

    Apparently their shooting attack is better against SEM though, but who cares when you can’t even aim it? Terrible design decision there
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,983
    $675 WOW

    I dont think there has ever been a unit that’s overpriced by twice their worth ever.

    They r weaker than $400 jav and without shield. They r at best a $325-350 unit selling for $675

    Well done CA! Knew they live up to
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  • DaBoyzAreBackInTown#9604DaBoyzAreBackInTown#9604 Registered Users Posts: 1,377
    Yea, $675 seems a bit nuts. I like the unit concept though, could just probably use a -100/200
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    The only good thing I see is 36 MD, with that kind of durability they could get into the back line and be hard to get rid of…still not worth the cost though
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,983
    Its a skink, 36 def wont do squat not even -$300 will save this most useless unit in game that hogged a 360 with 2 ammo


    Its a unit that CANNOT fire at will

    In order to shoot they need to attack a unit

    Guess what, that makes 360 a completely moot point.

    Its as stupid as giving a terror unit fear
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  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    2 things:

    Visually, Oaxtl or whatever his name is needs a hole to blow his blow darts from.

    Visually, the new Chameleon Stalkers clearly have 5 ammo mounted on their blowpipes. Giving them 2 ammo when they WYSIWYG have more feels bad.

    Not going to say either of these things effects balance, but it's worth noting somewhere.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    Maybe they have 360 to fire faster, they might need that at short range. I would not think this is a design to hurt kite builds...
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546

    Maybe they have 360 to fire faster, they might need that at short range. I would not think this is a design to hurt kite builds...

    I think it is though…why bring these guys when there are chameleons and terradons? I don’t see any MU’s where these guys would be worth the 360 shooter slot
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    edited July 2021
    Bastilean said:

    2 things:

    Visually, Oaxtl or whatever his name is needs a hole to blow his blow darts from.

    Visually, the new Chameleon Stalkers clearly have 5 ammo mounted on their blowpipes. Giving them 2 ammo when they WYSIWYG have more feels bad.

    Not going to say either of these things effects balance, but it's worth noting somewhere.

    How did you figure this out? Where do you see that they have 5 ammo? That’s good news if true, they might actually be decent in a few matchups then.

    If they really do nuke SEMs like indypride says then maybe they will be useful
  • Modern_Erasmus#3567Modern_Erasmus#3567 Registered Users Posts: 243
    edited July 2021

    Bastilean said:

    2 things:

    Visually, Oaxtl or whatever his name is needs a hole to blow his blow darts from.

    Visually, the new Chameleon Stalkers clearly have 5 ammo mounted on their blowpipes. Giving them 2 ammo when they WYSIWYG have more feels bad.

    Not going to say either of these things effects balance, but it's worth noting somewhere.

    How did you figure this out? Where do you see that they have 5 ammo? That’s good news if true, they might actually be decent in a few matchups then
    I think you misunderstood them, that commenter was pointing out that on the visual model of the stalker you can see 5 pipe darts while in gameplay you only get 2.

    Also, are these really 675? Dayyum.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031

    Maybe they have 360 to fire faster, they might need that at short range. I would not think this is a design to hurt kite builds...

    I think it is though…why bring these guys when there are chameleons and terradons? I don’t see any MU’s where these guys would be worth the 360 shooter slot
    I mean I don't think they have them 360 to screw with caps.... I think they have them 360 to fire fast enough.
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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    Gave (phone autoincorrect...)
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939

    Maybe they have 360 to fire faster, they might need that at short range. I would not think this is a design to hurt kite builds...

    I think it is though…why bring these guys when there are chameleons and terradons? I don’t see any MU’s where these guys would be worth the 360 shooter slot
    I mean I don't think they have them 360 to screw with caps.... I think they have them 360 to fire fast enough.
    Yeah, actually it's work for the animators to make units even be allowed to fire 360 degrees or move and shoot. I just ran into this on the Modding Den, because I want to add move and shoot to units with hand axes, but I will need to update the animations to do that, and I will need help learning how to improve the animations. It's not trivial.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 847
    They can change the skv mu if their shock role works in routing their chaff quickly
  • #21546#21546 Registered Users Posts: 4,761
    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$


  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,307

    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$

    As long as they have 360 pointless

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • #21546#21546 Registered Users Posts: 4,761
    saweendra said:

    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$

    As long as they have 360 pointless
    Is it confirmed that they count towards the cap ? If yes its indeed very stupid, you bring 4 of them as infantry and suddently you barely can bring any 360


  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,307

    saweendra said:

    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$

    As long as they have 360 pointless
    Is it confirmed that they count towards the cap ? If yes its indeed very stupid, you bring 4 of them as infantry and suddently you barely can bring any 360
    I mean they have 360 obviously counts towards cap.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,752
    They are going to destroy wood elves.
  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    edited July 2021
    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:

    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$

    As long as they have 360 pointless
    Is it confirmed that they count towards the cap ? If yes its indeed very stupid, you bring 4 of them as infantry and suddently you barely can bring any 360
    I mean they have 360 obviously counts towards cap.
    The cap is just a table units are added and removed from. It's not 100% given, although there might be complaints either way
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,307
    Pocman said:

    They are going to destroy wood elves.

    Wait till game 3 pretty sure forest sprits and ice trolls and tk lords will be the only ones that has weak to fire trait.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Modern_Erasmus#3567Modern_Erasmus#3567 Registered Users Posts: 243
    Posted a new thread with suggestions on how to fix the unit.
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    Pocman said:

    They are going to destroy wood elves.

    They’re not really worth it in any MU atm it appears.

    Those blasting shots of theirs look better against large than infantry and their melee stats are terrible. With their low model count they’ll lose to any WE infantry
  • Asamu#6386Asamu#6386 Registered Users Posts: 1,548
    edited July 2021
    Hard to say how good they'll be without using them in game, but I suspect they'll just be mediocre at best looking at their melee stats and cost. They'll need to get a lot of value from those missile attacks. You can't blow them on chaff (it looks like you can toggle off the shooting though, which could help with picking targets).

    A couple of units of them could easily nuke down some monsters though, particularly monsters with regen and low armour, like HPA and Hydras, and they can certainly take on most skirmish units in melee, so may be difficult to deal with if they get into the back line for some factions.

    Purely for their melee, the unit would probably cost something like 350, but then they have stalk and the missile weapon. They'll probably be worth it if you can get the missile weapon onto a good target for a lot of initial value, like expensive cavalry/elite infantry/monsters, since it does a LOT of damage (they can do more damage than skink javelins with their ranged attacks, even assuming a reload of 5.4, which is extremely quick), but if you waste it on chaff, they'll just be bad.

    Pocman said:

    They are going to destroy wood elves.

    They’re not really worth it in any MU atm it appears.

    Those blasting shots of theirs look better against large than infantry and their melee stats are terrible. With their low model count they’ll lose to any WE infantry
    Probably, but they do have stalk and are very fast + the shots will do serious damage vs cav. They Might be good for getting into the missile units and protecting cham skinks from glade riders. Cold One Riders will maybe be better though.
    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:

    They should honestl7 get minimum 35 WS, 25 is so god damn low for a 675 unit, its lower than normal Empire swordsman, but 275$ higher.

    They need serious melee buff if they are gonna stay at 675$

    As long as they have 360 pointless
    Is it confirmed that they count towards the cap ? If yes its indeed very stupid, you bring 4 of them as infantry and suddently you barely can bring any 360
    I mean they have 360 obviously counts towards cap.
    They have 50 range and are locked into melee mode. They probably won't count towards any missile caps.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,983
    edited July 2021
    Pointless garbage 2 ammo for a 360 slot, why bother

    EVEN if that is NOT true, they arent even viable for 675 when the true value of that unit even when generously priced, is over $300 overpriced

    A 68 model 22 attack unit is never gonna do anything

    Next time when these devs r working at home, set a password so kids dont log in and design units for dlc
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  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,192
    Dahv Plays already said something the the effect of,

    They Don't seem particularly effective at 600

    and

    Their design on a conceptual level might be why they don't work.


    So... its not just a question of stats but entire design philosophy. Not surprising I don't think there's a single Lizardman fan at CA, or at least not any with any clout. That's the only thing that would explain just how off the mark they've been with multiple DLC units and how lack luster their campaigns have been. Their DLC's have all been meh from the Lizardman perspective and if judged on that alone I don't think I could recommend a single one.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,983
    3 dlcs, added over what 12 units?

    NOT A SINGLE one viable, pathetic

    Whats added

    - Worst monster in game in form of garbage of sotek, engine of noobs, ancient sal
    - Worst character in game thats over $500 overpriced, kroak
    - Worst unit in game cham stalkers
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  • HowTheStarsBurn#4488HowTheStarsBurn#4488 Registered Users Posts: 766
    They look really, really bad. I'm not sure how people can defend this unit tbh
  • TellTale_ScarTellTale_Scar Registered Users Posts: 422
    The unit has strong potential, just needs some tweaks.

    Given their stats, they seem a good unit to pair with Kroxigors.

    A shock volley from Stalkers as they charge, followed by the shock of the Kroxigors' charge should be pretty nasty. Then they can mutually support each other in protracted melee.
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