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Thoughts on Chameleon Stalkers ?

135

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  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,184
    yst said:

    3 dlcs, added over what 12 units?

    NOT A SINGLE one viable, pathetic

    Whats added

    - Worst monster in game in form of garbage of sotek, engine of noobs, ancient sal
    - Worst character in game thats over $500 overpriced, kroak
    - Worst unit in game cham stalkers

    That's only like 80% True... but if each LP was ala cart I wouldn't suggest buying a single Lizardman DLC.

    CA has failed the Lizardmen about as bad as they Failed the Dwarfs, so expect to wait till the end of game 3 to see them fixed.
  • Asamu#6386Asamu#6386 Registered Users Posts: 1,548
    Stalkers look like they have a niche where they might end up being strong as a shock unit that pays for itself in one go with the missiles vs monsters/other elite targets, or blasting through something with low leadership and getting in on missile units early in the battle (fitting, seeing as they're classed as shock infantry). With stalk/vanguard, they do have some potential for that, as they'll be relatively easy to position, though whether they'll be able to match up to lizardmen cavalry/monsters for those roles is another matter.

    One MP match up where they may have potential is against Skaven, as Skaven doesn't really have anything fast that can effectively deal with them, and they're probably a decent rush unit with their front-loaded damage to crack builds that are heavy on missiles. They may have a place vs wood elves as well for similar reasons - hunting down infantry skirmishers, burning down trees, etc...



    Comparing them with Death Runners, they actually look alright. They lack the AP, armour sunder, and anti-infantry, and their melee stats are a bit worse (+ they're slower), but they do have that missile weapon, ~25% more entities (for slightly more total HP), and missile resist with +20 armour, and Death Runners cost 850.

    A comparison with Night Goblins (Fanatics) would or Nasty Skulkers also makes sense - they have significantly better leadership, and with their armour/physical resistance + missile resist, should have similar effective unit HP, and their melee stats are better (albeit with significantly less entities), in addition to them being significantly faster.
    Night Goblins are rather specialized for killing infantry due to the fanatics, and Nasty Skulkers provide utility with smoke bombs, compared to Stalkers, which are better vs larger entities (because of higher effective accuracy and lower target HP compared to cost).
  • #21546#21546 Registered Users Posts: 4,761
    Just for a fun comparison they got basically the same combat stats as the natty bubos...

    Just in terms of MA, MD and WS. They have more HP and models, but loose armor.


  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546

    The unit has strong potential, just needs some tweaks.

    Given their stats, they seem a good unit to pair with Kroxigors.

    A shock volley from Stalkers as they charge, followed by the shock of the Kroxigors' charge should be pretty nasty. Then they can mutually support each other in protracted melee.

    Not with their current model count and hp they won’t. They have the same numbers as chameleon skirmishers; a normal skink cohort will pair better with kroxigors atm
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275
    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    edited July 2021
    Did ppl miss the memo they have 22 att 24 wep str 68 model that cant even beat a $300 spearman in melee lol AND costs $675?

    The most epic CA failure design in half a decade.

    36 att 22 def wouldve make them work
    for $475
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  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    edited July 2021
    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    Inappropriate Comment removed.

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Post edited by dge1 on
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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    OdTengri said:

    yst said:

    3 dlcs, added over what 12 units?

    NOT A SINGLE one viable, pathetic

    Whats added

    - Worst monster in game in form of garbage of sotek, engine of noobs, ancient sal
    - Worst character in game thats over $500 overpriced, kroak
    - Worst unit in game cham stalkers

    That's only like 80% True... but if each LP was ala cart I wouldn't suggest buying a single Lizardman DLC.

    CA has failed the Lizardmen about as bad as they Failed the Dwarfs, so expect to wait till the end of game 3 to see them fixed.
    I think liz dlcs are what all dlcs should have been. They have actually been balanced and added sidegrades for most part, no huge power creep, and it provably sold as well as all the broken dlcs we have had.
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • Asamu#6386Asamu#6386 Registered Users Posts: 1,548
    yst said:

    Did ppl miss the memo they have 22 att 24 wep str 68 model that cant even beat a $300 spearman in melee lol AND costs $675?

    The most epic CA failure design in half a decade.

    36 att 22 def wouldve make them work
    for $475

    You're ignoring that they have 25 charge bonus and crazy missile damage per shot. They still have good shock damage.
    \
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    edited July 2021
    Asamu said:


    You're ignoring that they have 25 charge bonus and crazy missile damage per shot. They still have good shock damage.
    \

    Still get owned by $375 marauder lol

    Only costs $300 more, no biggie

    That charge is near pointless, ull be wasting 10s waiting for enemy on the ground to get up
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  • Reym#7442Reym#7442 Registered Users Posts: 825
    edited July 2021
    Apparently it's a weird unit.

    I deals a lot of damages especially to SE and tight formation, but you can't tell them to shoot at X they can only auto fire (the precursor missile weapon trait on Dahvplay's video).

    So yeah a weird unit.
    But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275
    edited July 2021



    \
    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    Inappropriate Comment removed.

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Post edited by dge1 on

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    edited July 2021
    saweendra said:





    \


    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    @CA pls dont promote any stray intern on the streets straight to lead designer, pls also set a password on your workstation when working at home. Its painful to play a liz dlc designed by 5yo

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Still not clear from this game how good they really are.

    They beat a line of deckhand mobs, a unit that costs less than half what they do. So what?

    And you can rush them with scurvy dogs and kill them just like any other skink unit. They’ll die easily to bombers too
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975


    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit
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  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    These trash looks like they have really bad accuracy, im seeing like 1/3 of the shots gone to the sides and misses
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  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275

    saweendra said:





    \


    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    @CA pls dont promote any stray intern on the streets straight to lead designer, pls also set a password on your workstation when working at home. Its painful to play a liz dlc designed by 5yo

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Still not clear from this game how good they really are.

    They beat a line of deckhand mobs, a unit that costs less than half what they do. So what?

    And you can rush them with scurvy dogs and kill them just like any other skink unit. They’ll die easily to bombers too
    yst said:



    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit

    no i am just sharing the replay , as it stands the only place they even have application IMO, because unless some one actually show some thing their charges do more damage to large targets like Indy said this unit is pretty bad,

    on the other hand may the poison of sotek make arc of sotek good

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    saweendra said:

    no i am just sharing the replay , as it stands the only place they even have application IMO, because unless some one actually show some thing their charges do more damage to large targets like Indy said this unit is pretty bad,

    on the other hand may the poison of sotek make arc of sotek good

    Yea its pretty annoying there hasnt been any solid info, how hard is it just to simply test it, its takes less than 3 mins. Lucky them getting the game early
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  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:





    \


    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    @CA pls dont promote any stray intern on the streets straight to lead designer, pls also set a password on your workstation when working at home. Its painful to play a liz dlc designed by 5yo

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Still not clear from this game how good they really are.

    They beat a line of deckhand mobs, a unit that costs less than half what they do. So what?

    And you can rush them with scurvy dogs and kill them just like any other skink unit. They’ll die easily to bombers too
    yst said:



    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit

    no i am just sharing the replay , as it stands the only place they even have application IMO, because unless some one actually show some thing their charges do more damage to large targets like Indy said this unit is pretty bad,

    on the other hand may the poison of sotek make arc of sotek good
    Even if they do nuke large targets you can’t even control the shot
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275
    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    no i am just sharing the replay , as it stands the only place they even have application IMO, because unless some one actually show some thing their charges do more damage to large targets like Indy said this unit is pretty bad,

    on the other hand may the poison of sotek make arc of sotek good

    Yea its pretty annoying there hasnt been any solid info, how hard is it just to simply test it, its takes less than 3 mins. Lucky them getting the game early
    one would wish they would do that one would wish.

    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:





    \


    yst said:

    saweendra said:

    9nly place i would think these guys as is any good is vs coast. Might be good there.

    I dont think theyd survive a $300 zombie deckhand in melee lol. Even the worst chaff in game looks like a 5 stars fighting the worst unit in game.

    @CA pls dont promote any stray intern on the streets straight to lead designer, pls also set a password on your workstation when working at home. Its painful to play a liz dlc designed by 5yo

    Luckily they delegate the beastman to someone else, at least we only get 50% failure on beastman side
    Still not clear from this game how good they really are.

    They beat a line of deckhand mobs, a unit that costs less than half what they do. So what?

    And you can rush them with scurvy dogs and kill them just like any other skink unit. They’ll die easily to bombers too
    yst said:



    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit

    no i am just sharing the replay , as it stands the only place they even have application IMO, because unless some one actually show some thing their charges do more damage to large targets like Indy said this unit is pretty bad,

    on the other hand may the poison of sotek make arc of sotek good
    Even if they do nuke large targets you can’t even control the shot


    i mean its not a big issue the issue if there stats are better for what they supposed to be , like 25 CB on a shock infantry is not much if they are indeed that they need at least another 10 CB

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    Why is 25 CB not much?
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    They need stat swap

    22 att 36 def is STUPID on a "shock" inf
    36 att 22 def is what it shouldve been

    What the heck really those stats, frikking identity crisis
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  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275
    edited July 2021

    Why is 25 CB not much?

    22 attck 68 models meh weapon strength , if its shock infantry kit it out to be one

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    saweendra said:

    Why is 25 CB not much?

    22 attck 68 models meh weapon strength , if its shock infantry kit it out to be one
    Sure, weird stats, but CB is really good. :)
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • DaBoyzAreBackInTown#9604DaBoyzAreBackInTown#9604 Registered Users Posts: 1,377
    After seeing them in action a little more, think they may not be as bad as first thought. They seem surprisingly durable with 36md + 20% physical resist + stalk + skink speed. Will definitely be more of a niche unit but one that could have good applications vs Coast/Skaven and possible a couple of others which are the tougher matchups for the Lizards.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 847
    No one here has yet to try them and already they are claimed the worst unit

    Lmao never change
  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    yst said:



    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit

    so you give 0 value to vanguard? stalk? Poison? Higher speed?....typical yst comparison of units.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    edited July 2021


    If cap change, liz will finally be viable

    Maybe even interns figure out those ferals r useless?
    Prolly figured out a faction with almost 30 monsters selection having 3 cap is stupid
    OR they play without cap which makes all that moot point
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  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,275




    check 3.04.01 of this stream may be i was wrong stalkers may be solid

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,975
    edited July 2021
    Problematic due to the fact those units never charge most of the time.
    Needs to realise u can do the exact same thing but BETTER with javs.

    I can see their application but definitely not up to that cost regardless, its 675, thats 75 to a saurus.

    Ark is ark now so thats good after 2-3 yrs finally. They seem to fix half of the utterly useless units, so now useless kroak and engine of noobs remains
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  • LevicariumLevicarium Registered Users Posts: 689
    saweendra said:





    check 3.04.01 of this stream may be i was wrong stalkers may be solid

    Even fight with corsairs. Much better than expected, given the 80 armor and AI of corsairs.
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