Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Thoughts on Chameleon Stalkers ?

124

Comments

  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,302
    yst said:

    Problematic due to the fact those units never charge most of the time.

    Needs to realise u can do the exact same thing but BETTER with javs.

    I can see their application but definitely not up to that cost regardless, its 675, thats 75 to a saurus.

    yeah but i feel this unit might need bit more play now to actually see how it perform.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    edited July 2021
    That is guaranteed not gonna be the case in proper test, he needs to have both lords on air, the corsairs were completely distracted and charge never gotten off in most cases.

    U can do it with jav and ullsee they completely destroys these units on 3x volley. It is not a unit that has a value of 675 in the roster, not even remotely close. The dmg they done per volley of explosives r near identical of what a volley of jav does. Nothing impressive at all.

    He needs to run it on cav or monster, if they do well on those, they will get their role
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    edited July 2021
    saweendra said:

    yeah but i feel this unit might need bit more play now to actually see how it perform.

    Yep agree, needs a proper test before carrying out their death sentence, they r in the death row now. Hopefully they survives it, this faction has enough trash units for another one

    I dont think they r meant to fight inf tbh, seeing how these guys been using it in allt heir fights it looks like a really bad way to generate value.

    I need to see one where they blast cavs and other large
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    If it is a little weak they can always add more ammo down the road... I am glad they are being cautious
  • FilipseFilipse Registered Users Posts: 11

    The unit has strong potential, just needs some tweaks.

    Given their stats, they seem a good unit to pair with Kroxigors.

    A shock volley from Stalkers as they charge, followed by the shock of the Kroxigors' charge should be pretty nasty. Then they can mutually support each other in protracted melee.

    Not trying to burst your bubble or anything; but Kroxigors dont realy have that high charge bonus; and why grab Chamaleon Stalkers; when the Red Crested Skink has AP, and Poison; and i assume better HP & charge values because they dont follow the Chamaleon Skink unit numbers.
  • ThibixMagnus#8300ThibixMagnus#8300 Registered Users Posts: 850
    cham stalkers is an interesting alternative to the lack of light cav I think
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981

    cham stalkers is an interesting alternative to the lack of light cav I think

    Yea seems like it. Still havent seen what they can do to non small
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    Filipse said:

    The unit has strong potential, just needs some tweaks.

    Given their stats, they seem a good unit to pair with Kroxigors.

    A shock volley from Stalkers as they charge, followed by the shock of the Kroxigors' charge should be pretty nasty. Then they can mutually support each other in protracted melee.

    Not trying to burst your bubble or anything; but Kroxigors dont realy have that high charge bonus; and why grab Chamaleon Stalkers; when the Red Crested Skink has AP, and Poison; and i assume better HP & charge values because they dont follow the Chamaleon Skink unit numbers.
    Because chameleon stalkers have high MD and low MA (which doesn’t matter as much when kroxigors are dealing out the main damage) while red crested skinks have no staying power and often route quickly leaving the kroxigors along taking all the damage.

    However, chameleon stalkers have too few models to take advantage of their high MD. If they were equal to red crested skinks in numbers they’d be a decent unit but right now they don’t seem good for anything.
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,598

    yst said:



    Yep as expected, soar right to the most useless unit in game. Deals less than half the dmg of a blasting charge which also does the same as bombers.

    Basically $675 unit performing worse than a $425

    Zombies pole managed to score $204 value in the subsequent fight having being blasted half their hp.
    So in terms of the useless garbage chams they should roughly be getting prolly $250+ considering ure dealing with a unit +60% ish MORE expensive with significantly higher hp, despite the stats difference by estimates.

    What a trash unit

    so you give 0 value to vanguard? stalk? Poison? Higher speed?....typical yst comparison of units.
    Exactly this. Yes their combat stats are meh. However, vanguard + stalk + poison + speed + their ranged attack means that they can be quite impactful. An enemy cav unit trying to flank can easily stumble upon them and get blasted pretty badly with the ranged attack.

    They will also be great as a backline harraser that can shut down arty and can also deal substanial damage to a unit protecting the arty.
  • BovineKingBovineKing Registered Users Posts: 962
    I think they’ll be fine there similar to blasting charges but get to sneak up so will balance out.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,187
    yst said:

    cham stalkers is an interesting alternative to the lack of light cav I think

    Yea seems like it. Still havent seen what they can do to non small
    Well they seem to struggle with 2 things.

    Loose formations.

    Getting all their ammo off before melee.

    So probably not going to be great vs cavalry.
  • steam_165171714789pPAEKOHsteam_165171714789pPAEKOH Registered Users Posts: 855
    I didn't realize about the 360 slot usage. My God, 3 DLC and the Lizardmen are the most screwed over faction of all. Never a single faction update and every new unit either garbage or nerfed into uselessness.,

    Has there been a single good DLC unit, ever?
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    endikux said:

    I didn't realize about the 360 slot usage. My God, 3 DLC and the Lizardmen are the most screwed over faction of all. Never a single faction update and every new unit either garbage or nerfed into uselessness.,

    Has there been a single good DLC unit, ever?

    Do they or do they NOT take 360.

    The games we saw streamed, dont look like they take it, they r like miners. Also is there any confirmation of slot changes, that guy took 3 basti and a trolololoracle so thats 4 slots.

    But really not surprised if they do at this stage.

    dlc grade: lolzardmen
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    endikux said:

    I didn't realize about the 360 slot usage. My God, 3 DLC and the Lizardmen are the most screwed over faction of all. Never a single faction update and every new unit either garbage or nerfed into uselessness.,

    Has there been a single good DLC unit, ever?

    LIZ dlc has been what all dlc should have been. Their base roster is still super competitive with saurus, chams, skinks, terras, mazda, kroq, oldblood, slann, laserdon, kroxis etc.

    There are a few weak dlc units that are still homing in on their powerlevel, but over all life slann, tiqtak (cheap), ancient Sally (micro), rippers (tk, vc}, Sally packs (ror mainly but not only), razor packs (dwf, chaos), red crests including ror, ror saurus spears, dread saurian, gor-rok/ancient (dwf), thunderous one, ror templeguard and ror terradons are perfectly fine side grades in competitive play. Not too much power creep.

    Even stuff like fire slann (vp), boxigors (vc), etc see some play.

    It's mostly engine of the gods, arc of sotek and tehehuin who are not there yet together with boxigors and maybe razors. Over all liz as a faction has been top 3 this patch, there is very little to complain about with liz balance compared to the issues other factions have.
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • ThibixMagnus#8300ThibixMagnus#8300 Registered Users Posts: 850

    endikux said:

    I didn't realize about the 360 slot usage. My God, 3 DLC and the Lizardmen are the most screwed over faction of all. Never a single faction update and every new unit either garbage or nerfed into uselessness.,

    Has there been a single good DLC unit, ever?

    LIZ dlc has been what all dlc should have been. Their base roster is still super competitive with saurus, chams, skinks, terras, mazda, kroq, oldblood, slann, laserdon, kroxis etc.

    There are a few weak dlc units that are still homing in on their powerlevel, but over all life slann, tiqtak (cheap), ancient Sally (micro), rippers (tk, vc}, Sally packs (ror mainly but not only), razor packs (dwf, chaos), red crests including ror, ror saurus spears, dread saurian, gor-rok/ancient (dwf), thunderous one, ror templeguard and ror terradons are perfectly fine side grades in competitive play. Not too much power creep.

    Even stuff like fire slann (vp), boxigors (vc), etc see some play.

    It's mostly engine of the gods, arc of sotek and tehehuin who are not there yet together with boxigors and maybe razors. Over all liz as a faction has been top 3 this patch, there is very little to complain about with liz balance compared to the issues other factions have.
    indeed, LZ DLCs have been a model to follow, mostly side-grades and fun niche units that are not needed as a core. It's also impressive that LZ, while maybe good, do not utterly break any MU in one side or the other (I don't find bret or SK that bad). All the more considering they are a weird faction lacking many standard tools, these type of factions usually break some MUs but not LZ. I really hope it stays the same with the DLC. Oracle and Oxy get me nervous for the VC mu ...
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    edited July 2021
    Boringgggggg

    As expected, worst unit in game, hogging 360 lmfao.

    Time for those -$300 price cut coming up




    U simply cannot get any unit more useless than this one
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,302
    yst said:

    Boringgggggg

    As expected, worst unit in game, hogging 360 lmfao.

    Time for those -$300 price cut coming up

    360 cap hogging?

    Well its trash then

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Modern_Erasmus#3567Modern_Erasmus#3567 Registered Users Posts: 243
    Apparently not only do they count for 360 shooting cap, they also count towards the chameleon skink cap so you can't have more than 5 of the two units combined even though they're completely different.
  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    That skinks!
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,742
    edited July 2021




    lol classic, he just hasnt figured out how to use them yet

    edit: sorry i forgot the big red circles


  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,302
    Loupi_ said:





    lol classic, he just hasnt figured out how to use them yet

    edit: sorry i forgot the big red circles

    doesn't matter 360 cap eat = trash honestly

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981


    I got better use of 360
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    saweendra said:

    tournaments don't use unit caps i think they use separate rule set so defiently not any ware near viable unit in QB

    Yep, even then doesnt change the fact they r easily bare min $200+ overpriced.

    Without the cap, they r realistically $475 at best
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,849
    yst said:

    Problematic due to the fact those units never charge most of the time.
    Needs to realise u can do the exact same thing but BETTER with javs.

    I can see their application but definitely not up to that cost regardless, its 675, thats 75 to a saurus.

    Ark is ark now so thats good after 2-3 yrs finally. They seem to fix half of the utterly useless units, so now useless kroak and engine of noobs remains

    I just tested the chameleon stalkers some fights with lothern sea guard, figuring they are also a hybrid shooty/fighty unit of comparable cost. The stalkers, using all their ammo, get the sea guard to about half HP, then soundly defeat them mostly by grinding them down and taking low losses from their decent armor and 20% physical resist plus poison debuff.

    Then I tried a level 9 unit of javelin skinks. Using all their ammo they just about route the sea guard, getting them to 1/3 HP or so. They then go into combat and finish the job rather easily. They take a lot more damage from lother sea guard bowfire than the chameleon stalkers for obvious reasons, but despite being rank 9 and STILL costing less than the chameleons, are fully capable of doing about as well in combat.

    I'm not sure they have a purpose. Javelins are so outrageously good at 3 ammo. If the stalkers had 3+ ammo I might consider them, but at 2, javelin and regular chameleons just do everything better than they do.

    Space Frontier is a sci-fi themed board game I've designed for 2-4 players. Please take a look and enjoy our free Print-and-Play at FreezeDriedGames.com

    If you have any questions about tactics or mechanics in Total War Warhammer multiplayer, feel free to PM me.
  • Totentanz777#2915Totentanz777#2915 Registered Users Posts: 818
    The stalkers are hot garbage. Not sure how CA managed to make such cool looking units completely **** but here we are.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    Kayosiv said:


    I'm not sure they have a purpose. Javelins are so outrageously good at 3 ammo. If the stalkers had 3+ ammo I might consider them, but at 2, javelin and regular chameleons just do everything better than they do.

    Yep, also no idea why they take a 360 slot when they r a precursor type unit.
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • #21546#21546 Registered Users Posts: 4,761
    Stalkers should have their WS up to at least 30.

    And their ammo at 3

    They are shock infantry, but suck in offensive stats, their shock is their weapon, but after 2 shots they don't have it and thus become quite useless


  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,546
    edited July 2021

    Stalkers should have their WS up to at least 30.

    And their ammo at 3

    They are shock infantry, but suck in offensive stats, their shock is their weapon, but after 2 shots they don't have it and thus become quite useless

    And their MA up by at least 2, plus a model count comparable to other melee infantry units
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,981
    edited July 2021
    Even at 90 models AND 3 ammo, they would still be a useless unit when it takes ur 360 slot.

    Never send a cham sucker to do a fire bolas job.

    Its a critical design failure for a 2 ammo unit to take a 360 slot. Not even 3,4, or even 8 ammo is worth it. They wont accomplish crap with 10 ammo with such pathetic dmg. U need to wipe 2x chaff just to earn like $100. It does nothing but scratch paint on stronger units



    Lets just forget about the 360 slot. They r suck so hard, their melee value r of that a 250-300ish men at arms or a basic clan rat, thats how much they suck as a $675

    U wanna play stalk? Lol they r an insult to ungors.
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
Sign In or Register to comment.