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Warhammer holds back historical. allow me to elaborate

KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
Existance of Warhammer TW, even tho a nice thing on by itself, i started with it and have every achivement, a good game. but it greatly damages historical titles, there are two parts to this problem:

1. Seperate teams are bad.
you probably wondered, why CA's historical team to example cant get battles right for once? well, warhammer, as more profitable ip, recieves all the best workers in the company, you think they hired a new team for fantasy? lol, they just sent less talanted and expirienced ones to make historicals. If you want a propper historical game, CA should be one again.

2. Steve Jobs was right:
"this "Walhammler" did well so lest make historical games walhammlery too, i never played or made a game in my life, why do i have so much say in this? whatever, what can go wrong. And dont forget to cut costs on everything, we cant afford animations or even sounds from 2005. god, its good to be a monopoly. "
Its pretty obivious that managers dont ant another historical, its a song of yesterday, they just want more Warhammers whithout realising that whithout that IP it would be a pretty mediocre game by tw standards, and so, will not sell so good, yet all historical games are just mods to Warhammer. speaking about mods MK 1212 is a better historical title than anything they did since rome2/atilla because it was made by people who actually like history and TW series.

3. Unrelated to warhammer: one game every year is a **** policy, good AAA game these days needs at least 4 years of big team's hard work, otherwise we get some half-baked ****
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Comments

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,618
    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

  • HowTheStarsBurnHowTheStarsBurn Registered Users Posts: 533
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,687
    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Eth3ryasEth3ryas Registered Users Posts: 672
    After warhammer is done, they should move to another fictional universe. I never purchased any of their historical titles and will likely move on after warhammer III if they don't make another fantasy title like warhammer (3k style doesn't interest me either).
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,618

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
    edited July 7
    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    well warhammer fb isnt infinite, AOS is still underdeveloped and generally a **** setting, and 40K is... cool actually, i would like it even more than any historical if they got it right.

    but still, my problem is that historicals are historicals, and fantasy is fantasy, and how you handle things, what you require, what you preoritize, and what you can do and can get away with is different. yet CA acts like its not, producing one deadbron historical after another. If they cant get it right maybe they should just stop trying already. or rethink something.
    If you have any objections, Nobody plays thrones, 3K is cancelled and troy only was noticed because it was free
  • gdvxiwezcvwezicvzigdvxiwezcvwezicvzi Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 90

    well, warhammer, as more profitable ip

    gg wp no re.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,878
    edited July 7
    It doesn't help that historicals are well...boring.

    Existance of Warhammer TW, even tho a nice thing on by itself, i started with it and have every achivement, a good game. but it greatly damages historical titles, there are two parts to this problem:

    1. Seperate teams are bad.
    you probably wondered, why CA's historical team to example cant get battles right for once? well, warhammer, as more profitable ip, recieves all the best workers in the company, you think they hired a new team for fantasy? lol, they just sent less talanted and expirienced ones to make historicals. If you want a propper historical game, CA should be one again.

    2. Steve Jobs was right:
    "this "Walhammler" did well so lest make historical games walhammlery too, i never played or made a game in my life, why do i have so much say in this? whatever, what can go wrong. And dont forget to cut costs on everything, we cant afford animations or even sounds from 2005. god, its good to be a monopoly. "
    Its pretty obivious that managers dont ant another historical, its a song of yesterday, they just want more Warhammers whithout realising that whithout that IP it would be a pretty mediocre game by tw standards, and so, will not sell so good, yet all historical games are just mods to Warhammer. speaking about mods MK 1212 is a better historical title than anything they did since rome2/atilla because it was made by people who actually like history and TW series.

    3. Unrelated to warhammer: one game every year is a **** policy, good AAA game these days needs at least 4 years of big team's hard work, otherwise we get some half-baked ****

    For point three...

    That didn't help Cyberpunk 2077 lol.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 5,378
    Or something more simple.

    What gets more attention from the people:

    A dinasour riding a dinosaur leading an army of dinosaurs that shoot laser beam from space and that are lead by space toads with magic powers.

    VS

    Another game based around the Roman period.

    Which means that CA being a company and not a charity will focus on what brings them more money.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,144

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 1,100
    I don't think it's fair to say that the historical team has less talented people than the fantasy one. Firstly, teams are not set in stone. Secondly, the existence of two, separate teams is kind of a myth. They might exist (although not in early 2016, when there was absolutely no historical team), but they are hardly equal in size. It's basically one large team and a much smaller one, brainstorming about the next planned title or designing DLCs.

    The difference in quality is basically one of resources. Sagas are just over-priced DCLs, where much fewer resources have been invested. It's a question of budget and time, not talent. Historical TW has suffered, firstly because it has been sidelined by fantasy in 2016, 2017 and 2021, and because has proven to be more profitable in DLCs. Sucks it, but that's life. I still remember Will CA reassuring the customers that historical TW will not be affected. Obvious lie was obvious lie, but still quite a few white knights defended him.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!

  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 1,163
    If fantasy games sell more and better than historical games, it is for something.
    Fantasy from a playable perspective is more fun.

    I understand the concern of historical fans who have no interest in fantasy, but the only thing you can do is inform them of your concern, wait for TW: Warhammer to be finished, and pray that success is not repeated.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,687

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
    The last Medieval title, using post the year 1,000 was 06. The last "modern" title was Napoleon, or the FotS (back then) DLC.

    Another game in the 18th century, or one in the 19th would be anything but "repeatedly covering the same period". Then there'd be the 17th. Century with the 30 years war...

    Meanwhile Assassin's Creed moved so far from the gameplay roots that it's basically just slapping the AC name on a generic Open World RPG in a historical setting...
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,937
    edited July 7
    CA had a potential goldmine at their hands with 3K and then they bungled it due to having apparently no interest in actually developing that title further or listening to the playerbase.

    So no, Warhammer isn't automatically more profitable than historical, CA should just not eff up.
  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81

    I don't think it's fair to say that the historical team has less talented people than the fantasy one. Firstly, teams are not set in stone. Secondly, the existence of two, separate teams is kind of a myth. They might exist (although not in early 2016, when there was absolutely no historical team), but they are hardly equal in size. It's basically one large team and a much smaller one, brainstorming about the next planned title or designing DLCs.

    The difference in quality is basically one of resources. Sagas are just over-priced DCLs, where much fewer resources have been invested. It's a question of budget and time, not talent. Historical TW has suffered, firstly because it has been sidelined by fantasy in 2016, 2017 and 2021, and because has proven to be more profitable in DLCs. Sucks it, but that's life. I still remember Will CA reassuring the customers that historical TW will not be affected. Obvious lie was obvious lie, but still quite a few white knights defended him.

    Considering Age of charlemagne is as big as 3k we can really see how much they cut historical resourses
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,878
    edited July 7
    3K died the moment all factions used same rosters. The only decent historical is Rome 2 after all its DLC.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,937
    edited July 7
    Amonkhet said:

    3K died the moment all factions used same rosters. The only decent historical is Rome 2 after all its DLC.

    No, 3K died when CA rolled out 8P as the first DLC.

    Roster variety is not the one true factor on which everything else hinges.
  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
    Why you all are so slow, i never said i want another rome or medieval or empire, i dont care what era they make, i just want it to be made properly, what wasnt the case for too many damn years
    Yet it won't sell.
    lazy 3k crap sold, so a properly made one(in shogun 2 manner but with big map and many nations) could have a good chance
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,129
    even if it was the case, I wouldn't care one bit.
  • ReghisReghis Registered Users Posts: 1,016

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
    Why you all are so slow, i never said i want another rome or medieval or empire, i dont care what era they make, i just want it to be made properly, what wasnt the case for too many damn years
    Yet it won't sell.
    lazy 3k crap sold, so a properly made one(in shogun 2 manner but with big map and many nations) could have a good chance
    and by many nations we are talking about pretty much the same units with different skins? i still love Medieval 2, Shogun 2 and a bit Rome 2 but compared to a fantasy setting with all the different models, magic, flying units etc historical games are "empty"
    My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial, can you say the same?


  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,878

    Amonkhet said:

    3K died the moment all factions used same rosters. The only decent historical is Rome 2 after all its DLC.

    No, 3K died when CA rolled out 8P as the first DLC.

    Roster variety is not the one true factor on which everything else hinges.
    Your right on the 8P point, but you could have the best mechanics in TW, but if all the armies play the same, its pointless.

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
    Why you all are so slow, i never said i want another rome or medieval or empire, i dont care what era they make, i just want it to be made properly, what wasnt the case for too many damn years
    Yet it won't sell.
    lazy 3k crap sold, so a properly made one(in shogun 2 manner but with big map and many nations) could have a good chance
    Complete with Shogun 2 copypasta.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,794
    edited July 7
    yeah i agree they should focus all the attention on the current titles that are active no need to make a another new title for while .

    yes that means keep the new game team working on Wh 3 dlc for 3+ years so before they leave and leave behind dlc team they can do lot of work to improve wh 3 as well add lot of DLC and FLC and reworks ..etc fast
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,681
    edited July 7
    The only thing holding Historical titles back are Historical titles ressources granted by the higher ups.

    The developpers of 3K and 3K DLC did their job, sometimes better than others, but the game was plagued by QA issues - most likely due to understaffing - failed to properly analyze the market (8P as first DLC lmao) and overall failed to deliver as much content as one may have expected from a hardseller. (again most likely due to either understaffing or dense bureaucratic walls.)


    3K could have been the best Historical TW to date, I think still think that by many aspects it is. But overall its life being cut so short (considering Covid delays) is a damn shame.
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,794
    edited July 7
    delete
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 7,447
    "Historicals" are just a inferior product

    Once you go fantasy you never go back

    And who would want to watch 99 different equiped humans fight against each other when you can have hellpit abominations fight against carnosaurs
    and Balthasar Gelt welcoming the gentlemen to Estalia?.......

    Like bro "historicals" are so yesterday


    "Yum Yum Ariel stew"

    Supreme Matriarch Of Nan-Gau...

    Master Of The Storm Winds...

    Daughter Of The Dragon Emperor!
  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
    saweendra said:

    yeah i agree they should focus all the attention on the current titles that are active no need to make a another new title for while .

    yes that means keep the new game team working on Wh 3 dlc for 3+ years so before they leave and leave behind dlc team they can do lot of work to improve wh 3 as well add lot of DLC and FLC and reworks ..etc fast

    i would liked it more if they just finished warhammer triloy and then returned to history, for three sagas(yes, 3k is just a big saga) were nothing but a waste of time
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,312
    Posts with inappropriate, personal and derogatory7 remarks removed as per the Forum Terms & Conditions. Warnings or Infraction points given as warranted.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • KaiserofKiotoKaiserofKioto Registered Users Posts: 81
    Reghis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Yes, that´s true.

    As long as warhammer is so profitable/easy to do (and historical is not) it won t change.

    i mean, that could (i don't think/hope so) lead to a situation as with Fantasy VS 40k. The latter sold better and so got basically all of the attention, causing Fantasy to fall behind more and more, even in marketing via video games etc.
    I doubt it since CA sololy exists as they do because of historical titles.
    Big companis always forget faces of their fathers
    Companies have to adapt or die. Making historical titles covering the same historical periods repeatedly isn't necessarily in CA's best interest.
    Why you all are so slow, i never said i want another rome or medieval or empire, i dont care what era they make, i just want it to be made properly, what wasnt the case for too many damn years
    Yet it won't sell.
    lazy 3k crap sold, so a properly made one(in shogun 2 manner but with big map and many nations) could have a good chance
    and by many nations we are talking about pretty much the same units with different skins? i still love Medieval 2, Shogun 2 and a bit Rome 2 but compared to a fantasy setting with all the different models, magic, flying units etc historical games are "empty"
    we would have a thing called historical period, that is far more fllavorluf than any flashy stuff, and a things called tactics and deep mechanics, insted of a glorified moba where your army is just a suppotive swarm for single enteties and world-ending magic
This discussion has been closed.