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How can they justify creating content that they know won't work? It's like playing chess with only pawns. A big portion of what makes it TW would be missing.
Misaka, thanks for writing out so eloquently what is wrong with the state of the game and the way players have been treated. It's like playing chess with only pawns: that's exactly it. We didn't need many of the events (which complicated development): we just wanted a full chess set with all the pieces to act out our own versions of this famous story.
Personally, I think 3K, flawed as it is in this unfinished state (and with the remaining bugs), is still the best TW ever made. Had they finished it to completion, it might very well have become one of those legendary games that remains forever playable.
... I'm afraid I wrote that, despite the incorrect quoting. And the context was not that pieces are missing in the current game, but that the demands for a "real 3K" start will remove pieces from the board. Because that setting will require: only 2 factions to interact with, rigid and meaningless diplomacy with no threats or surprises on the map. The importance of having many factions alone is almost mandatory for Total War to function well. Thus, what you're left with is a game with less pieces, less functions. -
I can see upon reading your post again @SilverMaid that you were talking about mods. But the way it was written was pretty obtuse so I didn't pick up on it. Especially because we were talking about the base game and you just brought up mods out of nowhere lol. Yes, the game is more authentic with mods, but that's kind of beside the point. I'm talking about the base game.
How about just leaving it at "I didn't pick up on it"? The paragraph I talked about mods hardly took up a third of that entire comment yet you're acting like I hijacked the entire thread into a different discussion. You & Mikasa turned this into an argument, not me.
Then as @Misaka_Complex says, the game claims Li Jue and Guo Si enter civil war when they don't. I don't even know what happened there. I'm pretty sure they patched it in. So they patched in an event which doesn't do what it says?
Dude......... please... It. Is. A. Mod. Event. I've said and re-quoted that now numerous times. What you two put me through, that is freaking obtuse. And yes, they very much split and fought with eachother. I believe even the exact word civil war is used on the wiki. Doesn't matter however, every nuance about this can be read in my past comments already so feel free to read that. -
So @Bright_Eyes and I are talking about the Dong Zhuo event and how it is lacking in the base game, and you go like "BUT BUT BUT I'm talking about mods!!" Yeah totally, this thread is made by @Bright_Eyes and you complain about us talking about the Dong Zhuo event regarding the base game with your petty excuse of "mods."
You somehow misspelled @SilverMaid as @Bright_Eyes. It was us talking about the event. A mod event. I mean not only is it on you for choosing to engage with me on a paragraph about mods, but at the very least you should've noticed that this event doesn't even exist in the base game. And then you claim said event about Li Jue and Guo Si was instead a discussion about the base game all along? Lol. What more can I say to that.
You also don't take away "every unique character" with the correct portrayal of the Dong Zhuo event, again thank you for proving my point displaying both your complete lack of knowledge of the game and the Three Kingdoms setting. I understand that it is very difficult for you to discuss the incorrect setting of the base game without understanding the setting itself, so I will assist you in explaining the correct portrayal in detail. Here are the unique characters you keep for each route.
Route A - Side with Wang Yun and Lu Bu
- Lu Bu - Diao Chan - Zhang Liao Route B - Side with Li Jue
- Li Jue - Lu Ru (historical) - Jia Xu
I'm the one who brought up Li Jue taking over in the first place when mentioning mods, saying that that is how the event should be handled. Then later you simultaneously discussed the base game event about Dong Min, for which I merely played devil's advocate. I said very clearly that that is not my stance and that CA's event isn't good. You also forgot Chen Gong. But that's just an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3K. I'm not sure you should be pointing your finger so much in your position. But I understand that it is very difficult for you to understand me since you're too busy putting words in my mouth.
Route B is the only accurate option with Lü Bu getting his own separate faction. That means if you want a route for Lü Bu to take over or stay, you already have to allow fiction.
If you didn't quote me I'd think you're not addressing my argument in any shape and instead just insult me for no reason. You want accurate dates, and when confronted with the fact that it's not possible you just repeat yourself as if that does anything. Wth? That's a weak defense for something you claim is so major that it's responsible for this game "not being 3K".
You don't even know what the Three Kingdoms is when it comes to the historical setting and facts. Again, go educate yourself on what the Three Kingdoms Period is pertaining to history as it is a specific historical time period in China. You've already done an amazing job to display your lack of knowledge regarding the setting, now go educate yourself.
I'll just leave that quote here for your own embarrassment instead of beating a dead horse over and over. I trust people are able to figure out themselves who needs to "educate themselves" here. Try again when you're able to do more than lie and nitpick on futile technicalities that are equally as dishonest to the discussion.
Dude......... please... It. Is. A. Mod. Event. I've said and re-quoted that now numerous times. What you two put me through, that is freaking obtuse. And yes, they very much split and fought with eachother. I believe even the exact word civil war is used on the wiki. Doesn't matter however, every nuance about this can be read in my past comments already so feel free to read that. -
Okay I understand what's happened now.
I'm talking about the Li Jue and Guo Si event in the base game. Not the mod you are talking about (actually could you link it since I'd like to see it).
You somehow misspelled @SilverMaid as @Bright_Eyes. It was us talking about the event. A mod event. I mean not only is it on you for choosing to engage with me on a paragraph about mods, but at the very least you should've noticed that this event doesn't even exist in the base game. And then you claim said event about Li Jue and Guo Si was instead a discussion about the base game all along? Lol. What more can I say to that.
No @Misaka_Complex and I were talking about the Li Jue and Guo Si event in the base game which absolutely does exist.
This is now getting farcical so I think we should just drop it.
I didn't understand that you were talking about a mod event and you didn't understand that we were talking about a base game event.
You somehow misspelled @SilverMaid as @Bright_Eyes. It was us talking about the event. A mod event. I mean not only is it on you for choosing to engage with me on a paragraph about mods, but at the very least you should've noticed that this event doesn't even exist in the base game. And then you claim said event about Li Jue and Guo Si was instead a discussion about the base game all along? Lol. What more can I say to that.
@Bright_Eyes has made it clear that he and I were talking about the base game multiple times. Nobody was derailing this thread with the off topic discussions about "mods" except for yourself.
You also forgot Chen Gong. But that's just an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3K. I'm not sure you should be pointing your finger so much in your position. But I understand that it is very difficult for you to understand me since you're too busy putting words in my mouth.
Indeed, Chen Gong does not start in the Dong Zhuo faction at the 190 start as he left Dong Zhuo years before the assassination of Dong Zhuo both historically and in ROTK, therefore you can't include someone who doesn't even start in Dong Zhuo faction to appear as a unique on either side of a rebellion within the Dong Zhuo faction. Thank you for once again displaying your ignorance of the base game and setting by exposing your illiteracy regarding the Dong Zhuo character pool of 190 in the base game! I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3k, and I very much appreciate your honesty, and I am certainly looking forward to more of that!
Route B is the only accurate option with Lü Bu getting his own separate faction. That means if you want a route for Lü Bu to take over or stay, you already have to allow fiction.
No, this faction is actually lead by Wang Yun, but it's ok since you are not familiar with the 3k era I can understand how you never knew this. Lu Bu worked under Wang Yun as Wang Yun was the leader of the anti Dong Zhuo faction who was the mastermind behind the assassination of Dong Zhuo and the entire Dong Clan, your welcome!
I'll just leave that quote here for your own embarrassment instead of beating a dead horse over and over. I trust people are able to figure out themselves who needs to "educate themselves" here. Try again when you're able to do more than lie and nitpick on futile technicalities that are equally as dishonest to the discussion.
Facts:
- The Three Kingdoms Period starts from 220 - You don't lose "every unique character" in a correct application of the Dong Zhuo assassination event in the game - Chen Gong does not start as a character in the Dong Zhuo faction in 190 - Chen Gong left Dong Zhuo before Dong Zhuo was assassinated both historically and in the ROTK novels - Wang Yun is the leader of the anti Dong faction plotting the assassination of Dong Zhuo and exterminated the Dong clan - This thread is about the base game, not about mods - @Bright_Eyes and myself are sticking to the thread topic discussing the base game not mods - You are the only person here discussing "mods"
You somehow misspelled @SilverMaid as @Bright_Eyes. It was us talking about the event. A mod event. I mean not only is it on you for choosing to engage with me on a paragraph about mods, but at the very least you should've noticed that this event doesn't even exist in the base game. And then you claim said event about Li Jue and Guo Si was instead a discussion about the base game all along? Lol. What more can I say to that.
@Bright_Eyes has made it clear that he and I were talking about the base game multiple times. Nobody was derailing this thread with the off topic discussions about "mods" except for yourself.
You also forgot Chen Gong. But that's just an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3K. I'm not sure you should be pointing your finger so much in your position. But I understand that it is very difficult for you to understand me since you're too busy putting words in my mouth.
Indeed, Chen Gong does not start in the Dong Zhuo faction at the 190 start as he left Dong Zhuo years before the assassination of Dong Zhuo both historically and in ROTK, therefore you can't include someone who doesn't even start in Dong Zhuo faction to appear as a unique on either side of a rebellion within the Dong Zhuo faction. Thank you for once again displaying your ignorance of the base game and setting by exposing your illiteracy regarding the Dong Zhuo character pool of 190 in the base game! I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3k, and I very much appreciate your honesty, and I am certainly looking forward to more of that!
Route B is the only accurate option with Lü Bu getting his own separate faction. That means if you want a route for Lü Bu to take over or stay, you already have to allow fiction.
No, this faction is actually lead by Wang Yun, but it's ok since you are not familiar with the 3k era I can understand how you never knew this. Lu Bu worked under Wang Yun as Wang Yun was the leader of the anti Dong Zhuo faction who was the mastermind behind the assassination of Dong Zhuo and the entire Dong Clan, your welcome!
I'll just leave that quote here for your own embarrassment instead of beating a dead horse over and over. I trust people are able to figure out themselves who needs to "educate themselves" here. Try again when you're able to do more than lie and nitpick on futile technicalities that are equally as dishonest to the discussion.
Facts:
- The Three Kingdoms Period starts from 220 - You don't lose "every unique character" in a correct application of the Dong Zhuo assassination event in the game - Chen Gong does not start as a character in the Dong Zhuo faction in 190 - Chen Gong left Dong Zhuo before Dong Zhuo was assassinated both historically and in the ROTK novels - Wang Yun is the leader of the anti Dong faction plotting the assassination of Dong Zhuo and exterminated the Dong clan - This thread is about the base game, not about mods - @Bright_Eyes and myself are sticking to the thread topic discussing the base game not mods - You are the only person here discussing "mods"
Feel free to use your browsers search function and find out who mentioned Li Jue first .. yes, it's me who brought that up. And who responded to me about that? It is you.
So again to make sure this is unmistakably clear: I do not care what you two talked about. I never replied to any discussion you two had. Especially not about the base game. I was the one to bring up Li Jue and Guo Si and I was very clearly talking about mods. You responded to that and you continued to turn it into an argument.
Wth kinda logic is it then to turn a subject that *I* raised, into a discussion you had with someone else and I had no part in? - I know everything about Chen Gong, he's among my favorite characters after all, thanks. Alright, he does not start with Dong Zhou in the vanilla game. As one of Lü Bu's most important followers, he should however not be ignored.
That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu either leads the faction or stays with it. What player wants to have Wang Yun as leader? It doesn't even matter for accuracy because Wang Yun commits suicide in the novel / is historically killed by Li Jue, which again is the most accurate route. I don't know why you try to make this an argument as if Wang Yun is worthwhile to mention for leadership. Wang Yun led for like, what? A few weeks? Li Jue on the other hand had command up until 198, and Lü Bu did not fall until 199. Li Jue takes over Dong Zhou's faction, Lü Bu gets his own separate faction. That's accurate and more interesting.
"- The Three Kingdoms Period starts from 220"
I know. Your point? I replied to you why it doesn't work at great length and you have yet to respond to any of it. --
"- You don't lose "every unique character" in a correct application of the Dong Zhuo assassination event in the game - Chen Gong does not start as a character in the Dong Zhuo faction in 190 - Chen Gong left Dong Zhuo before Dong Zhuo was assassinated both historically and in the ROTK novels - Wang Yun is the leader of the anti Dong faction plotting the assassination of Dong Zhuo and exterminated the Dong clan"
Indeed. Although you're taking me too literal and I never questioned half of these things. --
"- This thread is about the base game, not about mods"
That's stated nowhere so perhaps "educate yourself" on free speech. I don't give a crap what you think this is about, play dictator somewhere else. Nobody forced you to talk to me about it, it was your choice. --
"- @Bright_Eyes and myself are sticking to the thread topic discussing the base game not mods - You are the only person here discussing "mods" "
If only. I was the only one talking about mods until you (and much later Bright Eyes) responded to me about that exact thing. You even asked what mod it was. It's not my problem if you don't read what you reply to.
I know everything about Chen Gong, he's among my favorite characters after all, thanks. Alright, he does not start with Dong Zhou in the vanilla game. As one of Lü Bu's most important followers, he should however not be ignored.
You realize that Chen Gong had no part to play in the Dong Zhuo civil war both in the records and the ROTK novels no? Could you elaborate on how I "forgot" about Chen Gong in the context of a correct Dong Zhuo civil war event? Go on, don't be shy! I am very eager to hear from you how I "forgot" about Chen Gong in the Dong Zhuo civil war!
That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu either leads the faction or stays with it.
Fact -> Wang Yun was the leader of the anti Dong faction, he plotted and executed the rebellion against Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu was a general conspiring with Wang Yun under Wang Yun, so there is no "or" since Lu Bu does not lead this faction. Asking for Lu Bu to lead the Wang Yun faction is like asking Guan Yu to be the leader of Liu Bei's faction instead of Liu bei or Xiahou Dun to be the leader of Cao Cao's faction instead of Cao Cao.
What player wants to have Wang Yun as leader? It doesn't even matter for accuracy because Wang Yun commits suicide in the novel / is historically killed by Li Jue, which again is the most accurate route. I don't know why you try to make this an argument as if Wang Yun is worthwhile to mention for leadership. Wang Yun led for like, what? A few weeks? Li Jue on the other hand had command up until 198, and Lü Bu did not fall until 199. Li Jue takes over Dong Zhou's faction, Lü Bu gets his own separate faction. That's accurate and more interesting.
Ah leaving out the "sandbox" part where convenient are you now? Wang Yun died because his faction lost, the whole point of creating a scenario where you can play as either Wang Yun or Li Jue in the civil war means that you get to pick and choose which side wins, meaning that Wang Yun should be accurately leading the anti Dong faction.
I know. Your point? I replied to you why it doesn't work at great length and you have yet to respond to any of it. --
Then, given that most of the game doesn't even take place from 220 and there are no narrative events which takes place in the game during the actual Three Kingdoms period, it is not a Three Kingdoms game, just like it is not a WW2 game.
That's stated nowhere so perhaps "educate yourself" on free speech. I don't give a crap what you think this is about, play dictator somewhere else. Nobody forced you to talk to me about it, it was your choice.
I'm saying this because the forum moderators sometimes step in and remove off topic comments, "stick to the topic and discuss the thread or don't discuss at all" is what they usually say, so it would be wise to keep the thread on topic.
If only. I was the only one talking about mods until you (and much later Bright Eyes) responded to me about that exact thing. You even asked what mod it was. It's not my problem if you don't read what you reply to.
And yet we (me and Bright Eyes) are still focusing on the base game in our discussion while you repeatedly try to bring up "mods."
I know everything about Chen Gong, he's among my favorite characters after all, thanks. Alright, he does not start with Dong Zhou in the vanilla game. As one of Lü Bu's most important followers, he should however not be ignored.
You realize that Chen Gong had no part to play in the Dong Zhuo civil war both in the records and the ROTK novels no? Could you elaborate on how I "forgot" about Chen Gong in the context of a correct Dong Zhuo civil war event? Go on, don't be shy! I am very eager to hear from you how I "forgot" about Chen Gong in the Dong Zhuo civil war!
That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu either leads the faction or stays with it.
Fact -> Wang Yun was the leader of the anti Dong faction, he plotted and executed the rebellion against Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu was a general conspiring with Wang Yun under Wang Yun, so there is no "or" since Lu Bu does not lead this faction. Asking for Lu Bu to lead the Wang Yun faction is like asking Guan Yu to be the leader of Liu Bei's faction instead of Liu bei or Xiahou Dun to be the leader of Cao Cao's faction instead of Cao Cao.
What player wants to have Wang Yun as leader? It doesn't even matter for accuracy because Wang Yun commits suicide in the novel / is historically killed by Li Jue, which again is the most accurate route. I don't know why you try to make this an argument as if Wang Yun is worthwhile to mention for leadership. Wang Yun led for like, what? A few weeks? Li Jue on the other hand had command up until 198, and Lü Bu did not fall until 199. Li Jue takes over Dong Zhou's faction, Lü Bu gets his own separate faction. That's accurate and more interesting.
Ah leaving out the "sandbox" part where convenient are you now? Wang Yun died because his faction lost, the whole point of creating a scenario where you can play as either Wang Yun or Li Jue in the civil war means that you get to pick and choose which side wins, meaning that Wang Yun should be accurately leading the anti Dong faction.
I know. Your point? I replied to you why it doesn't work at great length and you have yet to respond to any of it. --
Then, given that most of the game doesn't even take place from 220 and there are no narrative events which takes place in the game during the actual Three Kingdoms period, it is not a Three Kingdoms game, just like it is not a WW2 game.
That's stated nowhere so perhaps "educate yourself" on free speech. I don't give a crap what you think this is about, play dictator somewhere else. Nobody forced you to talk to me about it, it was your choice.
I'm saying this because the forum moderators sometimes step in and remove off topic comments, "stick to the topic and discuss the thread or don't discuss at all" is what they usually say, so it would be wise to keep the thread on topic.
If only. I was the only one talking about mods until you (and much later Bright Eyes) responded to me about that exact thing. You even asked what mod it was. It's not my problem if you don't read what you reply to.
And yet we (me and Bright Eyes) are still focusing on the base game in our discussion while you repeatedly try to bring up "mods."
P.S. Learn to quote properly.
It doesn't matter if they're in the base game, you never brought up Li Jue and Guo Si and would have never done so if I didn't. And no, bringing them up is not "talking about mods". Saying "mods" 4 times in the same paragraph - that means talking about mods. --
Chen Gong starts with Lü Bu in Dong Zhou's campaign and is placed accordingly with the events of their destruction through the mod. But since I can already predict your reply of "hurr, nobody cares about mods", I decided to save us both the time and just went ahead and agreed. --
Wang Yun led the faction for figurative moments before dying in both history and novel. If you know 3K so well, you would know that I too provided facts. The fact that Lü Bu is a thousand times more relevant as leader. Wang Yun doesn't have the ambition to be a long-term leader. Not to mention that the faction mechanic of execution and intimidation is more suited to Li Jue and Lü Bu. This is sandbox territory as you said yourself so it doesn't even matter. I know the facts, and we both know it's a silly one. It doesn't change my view on this and I won't address this further since this is a matter of sandbox practicality and personal fun. --
"Then, given that most of the game doesn't even take place from 220 and there are no narrative events which takes place in the game during the actual Three Kingdoms period, it is not a Three Kingdoms game, just like it is not a WW2 game. "
As I just said, we discussed that and you have yet to reply to any of it. Do you just want me to copy paste it over and over while you copy and paste how I don't know anything about 3K? Also, when does the novel start...? 169? With the dlc, it seems to me plenty of 3K is covered, even the actual war of 3K itself. Is this also conveniently leaving out the sandbox part of the game? --
"Oh? So now we go from "put words into my mouth" to "you're taking me too literal?" "
Whatever suits your needs, no? --
"I'm saying this because the forum moderators sometimes step in and remove off topic comments, "stick to the topic and discuss the thread or don't discuss at all" is what they usually say, so it would be wise to keep the thread on topic."
Sure you are. I think I know how to stay on topic. --
"And yet we (me and Bright Eyes) are still focusing on the base game in our discussion while you repeatedly try to bring up "mods." "
For someone that values facts so much you care awfully little about being truthful. For two pages now you constantly take me out of context, lie and accuse me of "derailing the discussion" or "repeatedly bringing up mods", when you're the one to turn it into an argument on this thread. You attack subjects that I alone brought up, and when that doesn't go anywhere, you claim I derailed your discussion with someone else that I had nothing to do with at any point. It's disgusting. Just for completion, here are the 'facts' again:
Feel free to use your browsers search function and find out who mentioned Li Jue first .. yes, it's me who brought that up. And who responded to me about that? It is you.
So again to make sure this is unmistakably clear: I do not care what you two talked about. I never replied to any discussion you two had. Especially not about the base game. I was the one to bring up Li Jue and Guo Si and I was very clearly talking about mods. You responded to that and you continued to turn it into an argument.
-- Do you really think you deserve the effort of proper quoting with the way you act? It's pointless anyway since you only read what you want to see.
It doesn't matter if they're in the base game, you never brought up Li Jue and Guo Si and would have never done so if I didn't. And no, bringing them up is not "talking about mods". Saying "mods" 4 times in the same paragraph - that means talking about mods.
Li Jue and Guo Si's event not being implemented properly has a lot to do with the thread topic, so yes it matters how they are in the base game to further that argument that this game is not a good "three kingdoms" game.
Chen Gong starts with Lü Bu in Dong Zhou's campaign and is placed accordingly with the events of their destruction through the mod. But since I can already predict your reply of "hurr, nobody cares about mods", I decided to save us both the time and just went ahead and agreed.
Then that mod's understanding of the game's setting is just as good as your own, because Chen Gong does not start with Dong Zhuo's faction both historically and in the ROTK novels in the 190 start of the game. Given that this is coming from someone who barely knows anything about the game's setting, I can't blame you for taking the mod's setting seriously. So again, how did I "forget" to include Chen Gong when Chen Gong wasn't part of the Dong Zhuo faction civil war at all?
Wang Yun led the faction for figurative moments before dying in both history and novel. If you know 3K so well, you would know that I too provided facts. The fact that Lü Bu is a thousand times more relevant as leader. Wang Yun doesn't have the ambition to be a long-term leader. Not to mention that the faction mechanic of execution and intimidation is more suited to Li Jue and Lü Bu. This is sandbox territory as you said yourself so it doesn't even matter. I know the facts, and we both know it's a silly one. It doesn't change my view on this and I won't address this further since this is a matter of sandbox practicality and personal fun.
How you think Lu Bu was the leader of the Dong faction already further illustrates your ignorance about the ROTK setting. If we go by ROTK, without Wang Yun there would be no rift between Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo with the Diaochan episode. If we go by history, without Wang Yun there would be no organized uprising against Dong Zhuo after the carefully plotted assassination of Dong Zhuo so either way Wang Yun is clearly the leader of the anti Dong Zhuo faction as he certainly had enough ambition to kill Dong Zhuo and seize power. Wang Yun's reign being shorted lived due to Li Jue successfully taking over power does not take anything away from how Wang Yun was the leader and instigator of the anti Dong Zhuo coup whom Lu Bu served under, so no his leadership was not figurative at all.
As I just said, we discussed that and you have yet to reply to any of it. Do you just want me to copy paste it over and over while you copy and paste how I don't know anything about 3K? Also, when does the novel start...? 169? With the dlc, it seems to me plenty of 3K is covered, even the actual war of 3K itself. Is this also conveniently leaving out the sandbox part of the game?
The first half of the novel doesn't even cover the Three Kingdoms, as it is merely a prelude to the Three Kingdoms. If the novels included only everything prior to 220 and not 220 it would not be Three Kingdoms, but the novel does indeed include the Three Kingdoms period all the way to it's end while this game does not, do you see the difference here? Oh wait you probably don't since I understand that you are not very good with dates since you mentioned earlier that dates don't bother you at all and it can be a "three kingdoms game" even if the game is set during 1939.
For someone that values facts so much you care awfully little about being truthful. For two pages now you constantly take me out of context, lie and accuse me of "derailing the discussion" or "repeatedly bringing up mods", when you're the one to turn it into an argument on this thread. You attack subjects that I alone brought up, and when that doesn't go anywhere, you claim I derailed your discussion with someone else that I had nothing to do with at any point. It's disgusting. Just for completion, here are the 'facts' again:
The point is, nobody except you cares about your "mods." The Li Jue and Guo Si event as part of the bigger Dong Zhuo event in the base game is relevant to the thread's topic as an example of part of the game's shortcomings.
Do you really think you deserve the effort of proper quoting with the way you act? It's pointless anyway since you only read what you want to see.
I love the way you know better than me what I choose to read and not to read! Of course you don't "have to" quote properly, I just mentioned it as part of regular decorum since you brought it up earlier. Sure it makes you look illiterate how you don't even know how to quote properly, but I can definitely empathize and understand no worries.
@Bright_Eyes has made it clear that he and I were talking about the base game multiple times. Nobody was derailing this thread with the off topic discussions about "mods" except for yourself.
Feel free to use your browsers search function and find out who mentioned Li Jue first .. yes, it's me who brought that up. And who responded to me about that? It is you.
So again to make sure this is unmistakably clear: I do not care what you two talked about. I never replied to any discussion you two had. Especially not about the base game. I was the one to bring up Li Jue and Guo Si and I was very clearly talking about mods. You responded to that and you continued to turn it into an argument.
It doesn't matter if they're in the base game, you never brought up Li Jue and Guo Si and would have never done so if I didn't. And no, bringing them up is not "talking about mods". Saying "mods" 4 times in the same paragraph - that means talking about mods.
Li Jue and Guo Si's event not being implemented properly has a lot to do with the thread topic, so yes it matters how they are in the base game to further that argument that this game is not a good "three kingdoms" game.
Nicely missed the point of that whole discussion. I suggest you simply pretend you haven't read this entire thing like you always do. Only instead of twisting around my words, don't mention it again. That will better hide how absurd your way of arguing me has been. --
"Then that mod's understanding of the game's setting is just as good as your own, because Chen Gong does not start with Dong Zhuo's faction both historically and in the ROTK novels in the 190 start of the game."
I already agreed twice and you're still going on with this omg. The only thing that matters is that Chen Gong is with Lü Bu after Dong Zhou is killed. Make your own mod if you care so much about making it more accurate. I don't. Really. --
"How you think Lu Bu was the leader of the Dong faction already further illustrates your ignorance about the ROTK setting."
I'm not even gonna read further after starting with such an obvious strawman. Never said Lü Bu is the leader of Dong Zhou's faction at any point.
Route B is the only accurate option with Lü Bu getting his own separate faction. That means if you want a route for Lü Bu to take over or stay, you already have to allow fiction.
Literally all I said is that this route is fictional. There wasn't even anything wrong with my statement. I entertained your fictional event idea and included the option of Lü Bu leading because that would be it's only saving grace to be appealing. And for that alone you go on rant after rant about Wang Yun that nobody cares about. Wang Yun winning against Li Jue is not historical, not novel-based and not interesting so don't act like you're educating me on anything. It a trash event, that's all I have to say about it. I'm happy to let everyone have their own take on fictional directions but holy f you're making this a big deal and try so hard to shove it down my throat. --
"The first half of the novel doesn't even cover the Three Kingdoms, as it is merely a prelude to the Three Kingdoms. If the novels included only everything prior to 220 and not 220 it would not be Three Kingdoms, but the novel does indeed include the Three Kingdoms period all the way to it's end while this game does not, do you see the difference here? Oh wait you probably don't since I understand that you are not very good with dates since you mentioned earlier that dates don't bother you at all and it can be a "three kingdoms game" even if the game is set during 1939. "
The 3K period is in the game. It begins with the fall of the Han dynasty, and leads to a war between 3 kingdoms which ultimately unifies china. I've said all there is to say about dates and you're unable to reply so maybe do that instead of acting superior. --
"The point is, nobody except you cares about your "mods." "
I wager most of the active player base cares greatly about mods - that's why most people still play it. That's part of why this game is great. And that is the title of this thread. --
"I love the way you know better than me what I choose to read and not to read! Of course you don't "have to" quote properly, I just mentioned it as part of regular decorum since you brought it up earlier. Sure it makes you look illiterate how you don't even know how to quote properly, but I can definitely empathize and understand no worries. "
This post alone displays it well enough to be true. In fact any random post here will do at this point.
Nicely missed the point of that whole discussion. I suggest you simply pretend you haven't read this entire thing like you always do. Only instead of twisting around my words, don't mention it again. That will better hide how absurd your way of arguing me has been.
Now we go from "you take me too literally!" back to "you are twisting my words!" again, which was fully expected. The point of the whole discussion is to thread to the thread topic and discuss whether if this game is a good "Three Kingdoms" game, which you derailed through bringing up the irrelevant topic of how one event is portrayed in "mods."
I already agreed twice and you're still going on with this omg. The only thing that matters is that Chen Gong is with Lü Bu after Dong Zhou is killed.
You still haven't answered what I "forgot" about Chen Gong when I correctly stated the fact that Chen Gong had nothing to do with the Dong Zhuo faction civil war between Wang Yun and Li Jue, so what did I "forget?"
Make your own mod if you care so much about making it more accurate. I don't. Really.
Why would I "make my own mod" when Cheng Gong is correctly depicted as not being part of the Dong Zhuo faction civil war in the base game? You know I can just play the base game and just NOT play whatever historically inaccurate mod you are referring to? Wow I should make my own mod to replicate Chen Gong's stature which is already accurately reflected in the base game just because it is wrongly portrayed in the mod you play? What?
That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu either leads the faction or stays with it.
"That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu EITHER leads the faction or stays with it.", hmm what does "EITHER" mean? Since Lu Bu was clearly NOT the leader of the Wang Yun faction, you have made another factually incorrect statement with a scenario where Lu Bu is the leader of the Wang Yun faction when clearly he was not. It's hard to strawman the argument when I call out your factual ignorance of the setting through quoting you directly.
Wang Yun winning against Li Jue is not historical, not novel-based and not interesting so don't act like you're educating me on anything. It a trash event, that's all I have to say about it. I'm happy to let everyone have their own take on fictional directions but holy f you're making this a big deal and try so hard to shove it down my throat.
Wang Yun leading the assassination and coup against Dong Zhuo is both historical and part of the ROTK novels so yes it is a big deal, If you are going to ignore the the historical basis for alternative events you might as well get Cao Cao, Cheng Gong, Meng Huo, Gongsun Du or Queen Himiko to lead this rebellion against Li Jue instead of Wang Yun.
The 3K period is in the game. It begins with the fall of the Han dynasty, and leads to a war between 3 kingdoms which ultimately unifies china. I've said all there is to say about dates and you're unable to reply so maybe do that instead of acting superior.
So since you have already conceded that the Three Kingdoms period starts from 220 in previous posts, where is the setting from 220 and onwards in the game? Most of the runs end well before 220, and there are no narrative events set in 220 at all, so where is the Three Kingdoms Period (220 and onwards till the formation of Jin) in the game?
I wager most of the active player base cares greatly about mods - that's why most people still play it. That's part of why this game is great. And that is the title of this thread.
Nobody cares about your mods that you mentioned within the context of the thread, not "mods in general." There are great mods that are out there, and as @Bright_Eyes who is the OP of this thread said that's besides the point.
still: it is! or ain't? am not sure....finished only 3 campaigs so far..always a delight and a bother together....cool game but ain't
edit: and it was then I was greeted by a friggin' wall of text and knew I was in a wrong place..... Wall of text **** always annoys the hell outta me....
Well that's just not true for the reasons I've outlined.
- No narrative events outlining any 3k events - No 3k events at all due to lack of narrative of the 3k period - No prominent unique characters from the actual 3k period like Jiang Wei, Zhong Hui, Sima sons - Lack of events for AI so prominent characters like Xu Shu and Pang Tong aren't seen most of the time - Most of the game doesn't even take place during the 3k timeline from 220 and onwards - Most of the runs finish even before the actual 3k period in 22 - Doesn't even know the difference between Chen and Chenliu with fake lore such as Liu Chong owning Hulao - Doesn't even do the events properly with Dong Min taking over after Dong Zhuo dies with even more fake lore - Doesn't even have Guandu or Wuchao on the map while trying to sell a Guandu-themed DLC - Doesn't even have art for important characters like Lu Meng, Lu Su, Lu Xun - Has a DLC which takes place AFTER the 3k period without even covering the 3k period, ok... lol
A 220 starting date would only be to supplement the actual setting, so you can still lack a 220 start and make it a 3k game as long as the climax of the game takes place during the 3k period and have narrative events for the 3k period. How is this even considered a "3k game" when most of the time the game is already won before the 3k period even starts?
wait wait wait, if it is so, is there any mod fixing this?
Comments
The importance of having many factions alone is almost mandatory for Total War to function well. Thus, what you're left with is a game with less pieces, less functions.
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How about just leaving it at "I didn't pick up on it"? The paragraph I talked about mods hardly took up a third of that entire comment yet you're acting like I hijacked the entire thread into a different discussion. You & Mikasa turned this into an argument, not me. Dude......... please... It. Is. A. Mod. Event. I've said and re-quoted that now numerous times. What you two put me through, that is freaking obtuse. And yes, they very much split and fought with eachother. I believe even the exact word civil war is used on the wiki. Doesn't matter however, every nuance about this can be read in my past comments already so feel free to read that.
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You somehow misspelled @SilverMaid as @Bright_Eyes. It was us talking about the event. A mod event. I mean not only is it on you for choosing to engage with me on a paragraph about mods, but at the very least you should've noticed that this event doesn't even exist in the base game. And then you claim said event about Li Jue and Guo Si was instead a discussion about the base game all along? Lol. What more can I say to that.
I'm the one who brought up Li Jue taking over in the first place when mentioning mods, saying that that is how the event should be handled. Then later you simultaneously discussed the base game event about Dong Min, for which I merely played devil's advocate. I said very clearly that that is not my stance and that CA's event isn't good.
You also forgot Chen Gong. But that's just an observation from someone that doesn't understand 3K. I'm not sure you should be pointing your finger so much in your position. But I understand that it is very difficult for you to understand me since you're too busy putting words in my mouth.
Route B is the only accurate option with Lü Bu getting his own separate faction. That means if you want a route for Lü Bu to take over or stay, you already have to allow fiction.
I'll just leave that quote here for your own embarrassment instead of beating a dead horse over and over. I trust people are able to figure out themselves who needs to "educate themselves" here. Try again when you're able to do more than lie and nitpick on futile technicalities that are equally as dishonest to the discussion.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI'm talking about the Li Jue and Guo Si event in the base game. Not the mod you are talking about (actually could you link it since I'd like to see it). No @Misaka_Complex and I were talking about the Li Jue and Guo Si event in the base game which absolutely does exist.
This is now getting farcical so I think we should just drop it.
I didn't understand that you were talking about a mod event and you didn't understand that we were talking about a base game event.
It's that simple.
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1 · Disagree 1Agree- The Three Kingdoms Period starts from 220
- You don't lose "every unique character" in a correct application of the Dong Zhuo assassination event in the game
- Chen Gong does not start as a character in the Dong Zhuo faction in 190
- Chen Gong left Dong Zhuo before Dong Zhuo was assassinated both historically and in the ROTK novels
- Wang Yun is the leader of the anti Dong faction plotting the assassination of Dong Zhuo and exterminated the Dong clan
- This thread is about the base game, not about mods
- @Bright_Eyes and myself are sticking to the thread topic discussing the base game not mods
- You are the only person here discussing "mods"
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeSo again to make sure this is unmistakably clear:
I do not care what you two talked about. I never replied to any discussion you two had. Especially not about the base game.
I was the one to bring up Li Jue and Guo Si and I was very clearly talking about mods.
You responded to that and you continued to turn it into an argument.
Wth kinda logic is it then to turn a subject that *I* raised, into a discussion you had with someone else and I had no part in?
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I know everything about Chen Gong, he's among my favorite characters after all, thanks. Alright, he does not start with Dong Zhou in the vanilla game. As one of Lü Bu's most important followers, he should however not be ignored.
That whole paragraph about Wang Yun was pointless since I already said Lü Bu either leads the faction or stays with it. What player wants to have Wang Yun as leader? It doesn't even matter for accuracy because Wang Yun commits suicide in the novel / is historically killed by Li Jue, which again is the most accurate route.
I don't know why you try to make this an argument as if Wang Yun is worthwhile to mention for leadership. Wang Yun led for like, what? A few weeks? Li Jue on the other hand had command up until 198, and Lü Bu did not fall until 199. Li Jue takes over Dong Zhou's faction, Lü Bu gets his own separate faction. That's accurate and more interesting.
"- The Three Kingdoms Period starts from 220"
I know. Your point? I replied to you why it doesn't work at great length and you have yet to respond to any of it.
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"- You don't lose "every unique character" in a correct application of the Dong Zhuo assassination event in the game
- Chen Gong does not start as a character in the Dong Zhuo faction in 190
- Chen Gong left Dong Zhuo before Dong Zhuo was assassinated both historically and in the ROTK novels
- Wang Yun is the leader of the anti Dong faction plotting the assassination of Dong Zhuo and exterminated the Dong clan"
Indeed. Although you're taking me too literal and I never questioned half of these things.
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"- This thread is about the base game, not about mods"
That's stated nowhere so perhaps "educate yourself" on free speech. I don't give a crap what you think this is about, play dictator somewhere else. Nobody forced you to talk to me about it, it was your choice.
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"- @Bright_Eyes and myself are sticking to the thread topic discussing the base game not mods
- You are the only person here discussing "mods" "
If only. I was the only one talking about mods until you (and much later Bright Eyes) responded to me about that exact thing. You even asked what mod it was. It's not my problem if you don't read what you reply to.
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0 · Disagree AgreeP.S. Learn to quote properly.
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0 · 1Disagree Agree--
Chen Gong starts with Lü Bu in Dong Zhou's campaign and is placed accordingly with the events of their destruction through the mod. But since I can already predict your reply of "hurr, nobody cares about mods", I decided to save us both the time and just went ahead and agreed.
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Wang Yun led the faction for figurative moments before dying in both history and novel. If you know 3K so well, you would know that I too provided facts. The fact that Lü Bu is a thousand times more relevant as leader. Wang Yun doesn't have the ambition to be a long-term leader. Not to mention that the faction mechanic of execution and intimidation is more suited to Li Jue and Lü Bu. This is sandbox territory as you said yourself so it doesn't even matter. I know the facts, and we both know it's a silly one. It doesn't change my view on this and I won't address this further since this is a matter of sandbox practicality and personal fun.
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"Then, given that most of the game doesn't even take place from 220 and there are no narrative events which takes place in the game during the actual Three Kingdoms period, it is not a Three Kingdoms game, just like it is not a WW2 game. "
As I just said, we discussed that and you have yet to reply to any of it. Do you just want me to copy paste it over and over while you copy and paste how I don't know anything about 3K? Also, when does the novel start...? 169? With the dlc, it seems to me plenty of 3K is covered, even the actual war of 3K itself. Is this also conveniently leaving out the sandbox part of the game?
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"Oh? So now we go from "put words into my mouth" to "you're taking me too literal?" "
Whatever suits your needs, no?
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"I'm saying this because the forum moderators sometimes step in and remove off topic comments, "stick to the topic and discuss the thread or don't discuss at all" is what they usually say, so it would be wise to keep the thread on topic."
Sure you are. I think I know how to stay on topic.
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"And yet we (me and Bright Eyes) are still focusing on the base game in our discussion while you repeatedly try to bring up "mods." "
For someone that values facts so much you care awfully little about being truthful. For two pages now you constantly take me out of context, lie and accuse me of "derailing the discussion" or "repeatedly bringing up mods", when you're the one to turn it into an argument on this thread. You attack subjects that I alone brought up, and when that doesn't go anywhere, you claim I derailed your discussion with someone else that I had nothing to do with at any point. It's disgusting.
Just for completion, here are the 'facts' again: --
Do you really think you deserve the effort of proper quoting with the way you act? It's pointless anyway since you only read what you want to see.
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0 · Disagree Agree--
"Then that mod's understanding of the game's setting is just as good as your own, because Chen Gong does not start with Dong Zhuo's faction both historically and in the ROTK novels in the 190 start of the game."
I already agreed twice and you're still going on with this omg. The only thing that matters is that Chen Gong is with Lü Bu after Dong Zhou is killed. Make your own mod if you care so much about making it more accurate. I don't. Really.
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"How you think Lu Bu was the leader of the Dong faction already further illustrates your ignorance about the ROTK setting."
I'm not even gonna read further after starting with such an obvious strawman. Never said Lü Bu is the leader of Dong Zhou's faction at any point. Literally all I said is that this route is fictional. There wasn't even anything wrong with my statement. I entertained your fictional event idea and included the option of Lü Bu leading because that would be it's only saving grace to be appealing. And for that alone you go on rant after rant about Wang Yun that nobody cares about. Wang Yun winning against Li Jue is not historical, not novel-based and not interesting so don't act like you're educating me on anything. It a trash event, that's all I have to say about it.
I'm happy to let everyone have their own take on fictional directions but holy f you're making this a big deal and try so hard to shove it down my throat.
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"The first half of the novel doesn't even cover the Three Kingdoms, as it is merely a prelude to the Three Kingdoms. If the novels included only everything prior to 220 and not 220 it would not be Three Kingdoms, but the novel does indeed include the Three Kingdoms period all the way to it's end while this game does not, do you see the difference here? Oh wait you probably don't since I understand that you are not very good with dates since you mentioned earlier that dates don't bother you at all and it can be a "three kingdoms game" even if the game is set during 1939. "
The 3K period is in the game. It begins with the fall of the Han dynasty, and leads to a war between 3 kingdoms which ultimately unifies china.
I've said all there is to say about dates and you're unable to reply so maybe do that instead of acting superior.
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"The point is, nobody except you cares about your "mods." "
I wager most of the active player base cares greatly about mods - that's why most people still play it. That's part of why this game is great. And that is the title of this thread.
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"I love the way you know better than me what I choose to read and not to read! Of course you don't "have to" quote properly, I just mentioned it as part of regular decorum since you brought it up earlier. Sure it makes you look illiterate how you don't even know how to quote properly, but I can definitely empathize and understand no worries. "
This post alone displays it well enough to be true. In fact any random post here will do at this point.
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0 · Disagree Agreestill: it is! or ain't? am not sure....finished only 3 campaigs so far..always a delight and a bother together....cool game but ain't
edit: and it was then I was greeted by a friggin' wall of text and knew I was in a wrong place.....
Wall of text **** always annoys the hell outta me....
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