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I'm so sick of having to deal with Skaven every single time

SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16
edited July 14 in General Discussion
They make the game such a massive grind (worse than other dominant factions late game)... if there's a mod that disables them as a race, I'd love to have it.

- You can't ambush them (well, technically you can, but they are better at it and at detecting you)

- Even when surrounded by 3 armies they often get out by ambushing one by one

- Razing settlements is generally a bad idea, because there's always Skaven around to occupy it. Better occupy it yourself and build it up to at least walls, even if you don't really want to. Just to take the spot, so the Skaven don't do it unnoticed

- Finding and eradicating a Skaven faction is a total pain, they can literally be anywhere

- Their numbers are just ridiculous. Yes, early game most are crap, but still not -that- bad. And numbers means they can swarm you

- Their leader stats are just ridiculous. They are very very hard to kill (dodge), to pin down and to finish off when running. I just fought Queek as the Dwarfs, his armour rivals that of a Dwarf

- Yes their leadership sucks, but they just come back until your own leadership starts to suck. Sniping their leaders is not a real option, as mentioned

- They always have a very large amount of ranged units with a very large range. Getting to them is hard because of the overal large numbers

- Their artillery is just insane good, both in damage output and especially range

- Autoresolve can't handle them. You severely lose battles I easily win manually (but I don't like fighting them manually because of the previous) Maybe the patch changes solve that, but ...

- You can't pacify them by making them your allies because they immediately break such on a whim. So you have to eradicate them

- Late game it gets even beyond ridiculous of a grind to flush them out. Better get them early, but then you neglect your normal priorities

The usual response to this, try them yourself, you'll see. Yeah I saw, they even suck to play as well. You don't start nearly as powerful as the AI does early game (especially since you are just one faction, the AI has many).

Yes I know all of this is lore appropriate, they are supposed to be everywhere and all powerful. That's balanced out by constant internal wars because of leadership fights. And they're supposed to be very cowardly without leaders, I don't really see any of that in a way that matches the lore.

Yes I can handle them, no I don't like having to.

Oh, and I didn't even mention those plagues and nukes yet! Now you can't even properly recover from those grindy battles while plagued. And nukes, well, yeah, nukes.

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Comments

  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,669
    I feel your pain about the skaven being so annoying to get ride of. Just a note about Queek he is suppose to be like the "unusually strong brave loyal warrior" skaven LL so him having high armor is intentional plus he is a good armor piercing duelist. The other LL's are much more squishy.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,414
    I really wish my games were like this when I played order races. To often I end up tangoing with another order blob, of them painting the map. When playing HE I'd love some Skaven to smash. I mean that's the narrative dream right there, smacking some DE and Skaven around.

    Also, I have no idea on your autoresolve being different than literally everyone else.

    Clan Moulder is pretty dang easy... even at start. So guess you need to start posting your builds and strats so we can see what's wrong here.

    I mean, really, who is challenging you as Clan Skyre?
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16
    edited July 14

    Just a note about Queek he is suppose to be like the "unusually strong brave loyal warrior" skaven LL so him having high armor is intentional plus he is a good armor piercing duelist.

    Oh ok, I didn't know that about him specifically, thanks! (and nevermind that than)
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,561
    edited July 14
    To be fair... That "Ugh, skaven again" sensation you feel every time you realize you've got a skaven infestation to deal with is pretty true to the lore. Very immersive. They're supposed to be that race that you meet on the campaign map and just go "I don't want to live on this planet anymore."

    I mean Heck that is basically how the Lizardmen reacted in the End Times.
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16

    To be fair... That "Ugh, skaven again" sensation you feel every time you realize you've got a skaven infestation to deal with is pretty true to the lore.

    True, but not fun by design is still not fun. It was cool the first time, but not the 100th+ ...
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,319
    edited July 14
    I don't even get surprised by the "Skaven" message anymore because the A.I leaves too many clues that there are Skaven like the hero near the ruins.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16
    Vin362 said:

    I don't even get surprised by the "Skaven" message anymore because the A.I leaves to many clues that there are Skaven like the hero near the ruins.

    Exactly, it's more surprising when it's actually an empty ruin for once.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 7,468
    Cry-despair feeble one!

    The time of geek is over

    The time of The Rat have come

    Die-Die!


    "Yum Yum Ariel stew"

    Supreme Matriarch Of Nan-Gau...

    Master Of The Storm Winds...

    Daughter Of The Dragon Emperor!
  • ToxicFlamesToxicFlames Registered Users Posts: 443
    edited July 14
    Git Gud

    Cheese
  • Fraxure022Fraxure022 Registered Users Posts: 134
    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 3,384
    Why not just destroy all their settlements and armies?

    End of the day the AI controlling said annoying Skaven are trash and can't really threaten you
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Agreed. Hence why I would like the option to remove them, so I don't have to deal with them every single time.
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16

    Why not just destroy all their settlements and armies?

    End of the day the AI controlling said annoying Skaven are trash and can't really threaten you

    That is exactly the point I'm making ...
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,944
    Spikee said:

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Agreed. Hence why I would like the option to remove them, so I don't have to deal with them every single time.
    Play WH1 then. No Skaven in that one.
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16
    edited July 14

    Spikee said:

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Agreed. Hence why I would like the option to remove them, so I don't have to deal with them every single time.
    Play WH1 then. No Skaven in that one.
    Yawn. Why do you think there's an option to turn the Chaos invasion off? Early day mod first, now official. Some kind of option to select which races you want would help longevity of the game.
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,254

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Any tide that you end up at war with is a huge grind, Skaven tides are annoying AF to deal with if you rely on ranged and artillery, but otherwise its not too bad because fast units can get rid of their ranged units quite easily even when you are ambushed making them actually weaker then they look.

    But yeah they tend to be frustrating to deal with in general I agree, they have every cheap shot mechanics to troll you hard.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • SpikeeSpikee Registered Users Posts: 16

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Any tide that you end up at war with is a huge grind, Skaven tides are annoying AF to deal with if you rely on ranged and artillery, but otherwise its not too bad because fast units can get rid of their ranged units quite easily even when you are ambushed making them actually weaker then they look.

    But yeah they tend to be frustrating to deal with in general I agree, they have every cheap shot mechanics to troll you hard.
    Yeah, that's the main thing that hurts the game imo, there's always a natural enemy near you that gets big if you let him. So if you want to prevent playing the same game over and over, you rush to defeat them while they're still not that strong. But then someone else has the opportunity to blob up. It's going from one grind to another, especially if you go for the long victory condition.

    I look forward to the new content of WH3, but I fear the larger map will make that even worse.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,944
    Spikee said:

    Spikee said:

    What’s funny is that most of these frustrations (which I don’t mean to demean) show the Skaven behaving perfectly on brand for them.

    Agreed. Hence why I would like the option to remove them, so I don't have to deal with them every single time.
    Play WH1 then. No Skaven in that one.
    Yawn. Why do you think there's an option to turn the Chaos invasion off? Early day mod first, now official. Some kind of option to select which races you want would help longevity of the game.
    Because the Chaos Invasion is a unique late game crisis event? So not at all the same as removing an entire race from the game.
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 12,450
    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?
    #JusticeForTzeentch
    #JusticeForMonogods

  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,254
    Neodeinos said:

    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?

    I wonder...they have steamrolled in my games a few times and they can be sick! Though its always been in the badlands and south areas. North skaven like Tretch and Moulder I have never seen steamroll though(unless they are allied with me).

    Usually its either Queek, Eshin, or Skryre that confederate the others and then if they declare war on you it takes forever to delete them, skaven are good at playing wack a mole style Viet Kong wars.

    My worst time was me deleting Moors and just before I finish them, out of nowhere they confederated clan pestilens who was in F*** lustria owning almost the entire southern lustria...so not only did I not finish them but ended up at war with a mega power that is now based at the other side of the world sending stacks after stacks at me, it was BS tbh...
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 3,403
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,414
    Neodeinos said:

    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?

    This is what I wonder. Once in a blue moon the Skaven do something in my games but otherwise the majority of time I'm dealing with an order faction and even then more often some other chaos faction.
  • PTreePTree Registered Users Posts: 809
    Play as Skaven. Problem solved. :)

    To be honest, as a HE player, Skaven are my boggy faction. I find their range a real pain to deal with. And on campaign, you need to take them out early, otherwise you'll get hit with plagues...

    But, they are fun to crush :)
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,195
    Every **** game skaven are a tedious BS faction to get rid of. I totally concur with all that OP.
    Prophet of Cathay.
  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 1,616
    Neodeinos said:

    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?

    Skaven is the one faction that can in part do to them what they do to the AI.
    • Ready access to a decent AoE damage spell? Check
    • Will single out army stacks and force you to fight 1v1? Check
    • Has a lot of ranged units? Check
    • Has powerful campaign mechanics that it actually uses? Check
    • Spams summons? Check
  • DarthEnderXDarthEnderX Registered Users Posts: 653
    Spikee said:

    I'm so sick of having to deal with Skaven every single time

    You and every inhabitant of the Warhammer world.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,944
    Jman5 said:

    Neodeinos said:

    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?

    Skaven is the one faction that can in part do to them what they do to the AI.
    • Ready access to a decent AoE damage spell? Check
    • Will single out army stacks and force you to fight 1v1? Check
    • Has a lot of ranged units? Check
    • Has powerful campaign mechanics that it actually uses? Check
    • Spams summons? Check
    Yep, Skaven are a glimpse of what the game would be like if CA didn't mollycoddle the player and shielded them from all the broken crap they had put into the game.

    All those players going "don't like it don't use it" or "muh fun power fantasy" would cry bloody tears if CA hadn't crippled the AI and they'd be at the receiving end of the game's terrible balance.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 7,468
    Jman5 said:

    Neodeinos said:

    I've always seen people complaining about the Skaven but I've never seen them do anything in my campaigns, both vanilla and modded. Do we play the same game ?

    Skaven is the one faction that can in part do to them what they do to the AI.
    • Ready access to a decent AoE damage spell? Check
    • Will single out army stacks and force you to fight 1v1? Check
    • Has a lot of ranged units? Check
    • Has powerful campaign mechanics that it actually uses? Check
    • Spams summons? Check
    This is what in my mind make the Skaven the best faction to fight against, one have to do more than just watching two lines meet



    "Yum Yum Ariel stew"

    Supreme Matriarch Of Nan-Gau...

    Master Of The Storm Winds...

    Daughter Of The Dragon Emperor!
  • PandabaronPandabaron Registered Users Posts: 253
    ‘Ratmen? Surely you jest? there’s no such thing!’

    *laughs maniacally*
  • manpersalmanpersal Registered Users Posts: 2,241
    I don't get this fuss. Yes skaven can be annoying, just as every race that goes on a steamrolling rampage. Since their stalk stance was nerfed they're half the threat they used to.
    PTree said:

    Play as Skaven. Problem solved. :)

    To be honest, as a HE player, Skaven are my boggy faction. I find their range a real pain to deal with. And on campaign, you need to take them out early, otherwise you'll get hit with plagues...

    But, they are fun to crush :)

    Skaven are super easy to fight as HE, bolthrowers are great at destroyong their artillery and sisters wrecks most weapom teams. The only skaven unit that can worry me as HE are mortars, or massed artillery, which the AI rarely does.

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