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The Beastmen - What would you change?

13

Comments

  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021

    Lucifer said:

    1. No more recruiting instantly anything but tier 1-2 units
    2. Increased Dread and money costs for just about everything
    3. Extra moves via momentum cost more (3?) or one per turn?
    4. fix chariot bugs because they ruin the game
    5. AI attacks herdstones more
    6. Take the Ghorgon out of Taurox's starting army
    7. Lower Growth so you can't tech as fast
    8. Add downsides to all the random god mode buffs you get

    This campaign is stupidly easy. At least give them a "hard start" or an option to change this stuff in the game so I don't feel like i'm a toddler.

    Pilthoid said:

    Yep cool downs on recruiting higher tier units similar to what happens when you lose a regiment of renown would help.

    But it may also hamstring some players in the process. So I’d tweak it per difficulty level also



    Other than that I love the update.

    Much of this has already been added to the mod which is live, link in my signature. The best units can take up-to four turns to recruit, longer if you recruit for more than one army, or not in a herdstone zone; as recruitment capacity locally has been reduced.

    Chariot bugs/animations, not really my thing. Legendary mode, you're fighting for your life and herdstone. As for the buffs, I really don't want to destroy that "overpower", feeling, but try make it worthwhile by putting it to destructive use to pay for the dread upgrades and items, etc, which have been vastly increased. You really do have to bring destruction to the world to pay for the upgrades or legendary lords, etc.
    Sounds good, I'm shocked that CA released it like this. A good "easy" campaign would be Go-Rok. It's pretty easy, but you can lose, and bad things can happen. As it is now with beastmen, you're AR-ing, stuff dies, and you instantly replace it. Or just disband to get new stuff for free instantly if they're hurt. It's the most braindead campaign ever.
    I guess you could still do that to an extent and game the system, or merge units and recruit the trash in one turn, but the better ones, nope, you now will have to wait for that. >:)

    I might also look in to making better than trash units cost a little dread to recruit also, or something. Not sure if I can yet, but there's plenty of time now its live to tweek and test things out.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 10,369
    Why does it take three turns to recruit a Khemrian Warsphinx or Necrosphinx as Tomb Kings...but ONE turn for a Ghorgon or Jabberslythe?

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 9,704
    Amonkhet said:

    Why does it take three turns to recruit a Khemrian Warsphinx or Necrosphinx as Tomb Kings...but ONE turn for a Ghorgon or Jabberslythe?

    Yeah it makes zero sense.

    In thinking on the update fully, I wasnt applying care, consideration, or really thought to anything, and on VH/VH you just roll through as some unstoppable juggernaught.

    I was going to play a ME run, but I'm not sure I can be bothered at this point, I will win, and its not really in question.

    Would it be nice to kill more than DE and Lizards like in the Vortex? I guess...but I dont know.
    Glory matters not.

  • DrPipinsDrPipins Registered Users Posts: 12
    Unit caps should have to be purchased per lord rather than affect the entire faction.
  • ResourcefullBroccoliResourcefullBroccoli Registered Users Posts: 21
    Hey man, first of all thanks for the effort doing this. While I have no problem enjoying the new Beastmen experience, having a more challenging option would be fun as well. The rework is great but they no longer feel like a guerrilla faction.

    Anyways, few suggestions you may find useful/ interesting:
    1. Don't know how feasible is this, but any chance of re-purposing the Wood Elves' Forest Ritual script to make Beastmen Rituals function in the same way? I.e. they take time to complete (let's say between 5-10 turns) and enemy armies spawn, trying to take out the Herdstone. Number of armies and quality of troops scale with the Herdstone level - the higher the level the more armies (and later doomstacks) come for your rock. Big part of the BM blitz is that early game AI can't really stop you from getting Marks, and you gain them instantly while denying the already weak factions room to expand. Late game you have so many armies that it does not matter. Having to babysit the Herdstone to get the goodies would slow things down, which seems to be your main objective here.
    2. Remove the free army from first two levels of Ruination progress rewards.
    3. Ideally, you would integrate it with the Mod Configuration Tool, so that anyone can customize their experience as they see fit (I'm not a fan of Dread changes for instance) but since that is probably a pain in the ass to do, maybe consider good ol' modules for each part of the mod (growth, Dread, recruitment etc.)?
    Once again, thank you for your hard work and trying to find a constructive solution!
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021
    Amonkhet said:

    Why does it take three turns to recruit a Khemrian Warsphinx or Necrosphinx as Tomb Kings...but ONE turn for a Ghorgon or Jabberslythe?



    If you bothered to read the changes on the post, you'll see it now takes this number of turns with my mod, which is live, and the link to my steam workshop is in my signature. This is the whole point of this discussion, to find out what many dislike the most about the new Beastmen, and my (our) attempt to alleviate that.


    Recruit time in turns:
    Giants 2
    Feral Manticor 2
    Minotaurs 2
    Tuskor Chariots 2
    Cygor 3
    Jabberslythe 3
    Ghorgon 4




    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021
    Surge_2 said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why does it take three turns to recruit a Khemrian Warsphinx or Necrosphinx as Tomb Kings...but ONE turn for a Ghorgon or Jabberslythe?

    Yeah it makes zero sense.

    In thinking on the update fully, I wasnt applying care, consideration, or really thought to anything, and on VH/VH you just roll through as some unstoppable juggernaught.

    I was going to play a ME run, but I'm not sure I can be bothered at this point, I will win, and its not really in question.

    Would it be nice to kill more than DE and Lizards like in the Vortex? I guess...but I dont know.
    Lets keep on topic and constructive, and you should all know by now; I have changed this with my mod, and the good thing about mods is, you can use them or leave them. Those that like the system as is can leave the mod, those that want it toned down, use it. It may take CA awhile to change what everyone disagrees on and tone things down a bit, but right now, this mod does make it harder and slow the campaign down a bit and addresses the recruit times and costs in a big way.
    Post edited by Lucifer on


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021
    DrPipins said:

    Unit caps should have to be purchased per lord rather than affect the entire faction.

    I did think about this, but you still need the right buildings to get them, and with these new changes you will have to rely on normal lords a bit more and losing one will be painful. The costs of the legendary lords are now really high, and I am thinking of increasing it, depending on feedback.
    Post edited by Lucifer on


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021

    Hey man, first of all thanks for the effort doing this. While I have no problem enjoying the new Beastmen experience, having a more challenging option would be fun as well. The rework is great but they no longer feel like a guerrilla faction.

    Anyways, few suggestions you may find useful/ interesting:

    1. Don't know how feasible is this, but any chance of re-purposing the Wood Elves' Forest Ritual script to make Beastmen Rituals function in the same way? I.e. they take time to complete (let's say between 5-10 turns) and enemy armies spawn, trying to take out the Herdstone. Number of armies and quality of troops scale with the Herdstone level - the higher the level the more armies (and later doomstacks) come for your rock. Big part of the BM blitz is that early game AI can't really stop you from getting Marks, and you gain them instantly while denying the already weak factions room to expand. Late game you have so many armies that it does not matter. Having to babysit the Herdstone to get the goodies would slow things down, which seems to be your main objective here.
    2. Remove the free army from first two levels of Ruination progress rewards.
    3. Ideally, you would integrate it with the Mod Configuration Tool, so that anyone can customize their experience as they see fit (I'm not a fan of Dread changes for instance) but since that is probably a pain in the ass to do, maybe consider good ol' modules for each part of the mod (growth, Dread, recruitment etc.)?
    Once again, thank you for your hard work and trying to find a constructive solution!
    Firstly, if I make it too hard on lower levels it will be impossible on legendary, of which I mostly play on, and defending them herdstones on that mode is a big thing as losing that recruitment capacity will be painful as you drop down to just three slots un-specced recruitment locally. You now have turns increased for certain units on-top of that, so I don't want to over-do it. I have been toying with the idea of making it take a number of turns for the construction of the herdstone upgrades and what not. There's lots and lots of ways to attack this and tone it down, but, would everyone like that, and that's the biggest issue of all.

    Removing armies, nah. I want people to use the normal lords and spec them a bit. It was too easy to get a legendary one in my opinion as a modder, but as a genocidal maniac, I bloody loved the chaos. >:)

    The dread system with my mod is vastly much harder now, as is the item costs.







    And, you're welcome. B)
    Post edited by Lucifer on


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021
    Ben1990 said:

    Lucifer said:

    As the title says, and I'll give my own reason for strongly pushing for the disband units at the beginning of the game; which of course as a modder, I can change it, but what would be the best change for two or three units to start with that would please everyone?

    "Start Units too op"
    The quick fix: disband units you do not like or feel it makes the game too easy for you, and recruit the appropriate units yourself. The modding fix requires me to change the startpos file and recompile it every time it needs a change, which makes the first option the best one, and pleases everyone. That said, its not hard to do.

    After reading many threads and disagreements I've never really seen a general list of what would be the ideal starting units to begin the campaign with. So what units would you use and why?

    The dread system I've already changed and made it for the long haul in mind. You will have a lot to work for, and it will take a lot of time. It will also inhibit your game pace a lot. The items list costs I will be looking at vastly increasing the costs for items, but not sure by how much.






    So what would you change for the Beastmen and why, and say what you would change it to or by how many, or would think by how many would be best, for items, recruiting, etc, etc. Keep it constructive.
    Add more units they had access to via Monstrous Arcanum and Storm of Magic and who fit in thematically. Also add back Chaos Trolls and Dragon Ogre units like they had in Beasts of Chaos.
    Late reply, I know, I just wanted to be sure it's possible and it looks like it is so soon(tm). I'll look at adding units/heroes from chaos to the buildings and perhaps RoR, but once I start playing around with the RoR and starting units it means the mod is locked to a startpos, and if others are using a startpos also they will conflict.

    Still, it's an interesting idea and I like it.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • SteelRoninSteelRonin Junior Member ChileRegistered Users Posts: 1,472
    change nothing, they are OK. They were neglected for years and now that they are on par with other factions you want to nerf them?.....**** off
  • Stacks_LeeStacks_Lee Registered Users Posts: 362
    Seeing a lot of good ideas here.

    For Taurox's Rampage/Momentum, perhaps there could be an army debuff that stacks every time it is used more than once. Something that represents the herd's exhaustion but is applied as its own effect separate from vigour, so it can't be avoided through the multitude of Perfect Vigour items/buffs.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177

    change nothing, they are OK. They were neglected for years and now that they are on par with other factions you want to nerf them?.....**** off

    As a genocidal maniac who loves to set the world on fire and torment dwarfs, I agree with you. However, as a modder, you just get everything too quick, too fast, and it makes no sense to get tier 4 units in one turn, without loss. So even though I hated having to concede to my modding side and giving up my genocidal side.. well, there it is.

    This is a mod, you either use it or you don't. Now, gtfo. >:)



    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177

    Seeing a lot of good ideas here.

    For Taurox's Rampage/Momentum, perhaps there could be an army debuff that stacks every time it is used more than once. Something that represents the herd's exhaustion but is applied as its own effect separate from vigour, so it can't be avoided through the multitude of Perfect Vigour items/buffs.

    To be honest, I've never wanted to nerf a game by modding it the wrong way, and de-buffs, nah, I dislike it. There's a whole host of ways I could tone it down, by reducing the gains per win, more for a loss, and more loss per turn, etc, etc. It just hmm doesn't seem the way to go even though many think it is.

    Early on is where the Beastmen are most powerful and they can grow really fast. I like the idea of the horde being fast paced and hard hitting, but again, they did grow too quick. This mod helps tone that down in a way you keep your power and put it to good use, but makes you have to really earn that dread, or favor.

    Quick example from two legendary games today, with my mod.

    1. I lost both games before turn 23.
    2. I wasn't able to level Estalia and gain that region
    3. I never defeated middlenland, but I did raid, and I did sack/raze some settlements.

    So, although I was a bit careless, one thing I did know was due to the capacity reduction, it gave the ai a little time to prepare better and perhaps get half a secondary army. Might be different for others, but this was just two tests I did.

    So far I'm happy with the mod, even though it still could do with some work, but it's there, and it works.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    change nothing, they are OK. They were neglected for years and now that they are on par with other factions you want to nerf them?.....**** off

    So now you won't even allow mods to be made for them? Do casuals think they own the whole effin' franchise now?
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021

    change nothing, they are OK. They were neglected for years and now that they are on par with other factions you want to nerf them?.....**** off

    So now you won't even allow mods to be made for them? Do casuals think they own the whole effin' franchise now?
    I don't think casual has anything to do with it. I think it's the 'instant gratification', to be so powerful so quick and make it very arcade like. I know I was really enjoying the power rush which helped on legendary when facing the tier 9 stuff, but there was no sense of loss, and that's when the modder in me woke-up and put my genocidal side to sleep, for a bit. >:)


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    It's still egregious how the "don't tell me how to play!" -crowd now can't even suffer people modding their game if the mods make the game less trivial.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    Good old Toddy, but not good enough. >:)



    Let the feast begin.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • whatever14whatever14 Registered Users Posts: 464
    if you plan to add more units pls keep the vanilla version of the mod eithout units.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177

    if you plan to add more units pls keep the vanilla version of the mod eithout units.

    I can easily do variants of the same mod, it's not that hard.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited July 2021
    Well, the mod makes the BM campaigns other than Taurox' more enjoyable because your power doesn't go through the roof just as fast and losing valuable units in battle is actually a setback, kudos. Taurox however needs more than that before he stops being the Noobull.
  • whatever14whatever14 Registered Users Posts: 464
    edited July 2021
    played a little bit. it's better.

    however there is another glaring issue that still makes bm braindead. hidden encampent. not only is it so op to be completely invisible, but also to be able to do that after razing settlement makes it even worse.

    what exactly happens? you raze settlement, go hiddne encamp,enemy sends army to colonise since they can't see you. next turn you attack them and they are at 50% hp.

    solution -> make hidden encamp based on ambus chance if possible. if you go encamp in high ambush chance terrain you get to be invisible. otherwise not. if that is not possible then at least reduce movement after razing to 0% so you can't just attack **** without caring what happens next.

    also, pigs don't have to be 2 turns to recruit imo, they are t2 unit.

    also, what is going on with traitor kin? this spell absolutely melts. i'm getting hundreds of kill every battle, too much for direct spell.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177

    Well, the mod makes the BM campaigns other than Taurox' more enjoyable because your power doesn't go through the roof just as fast and losing valuable units in battle is actually a setback, kudos. Taurox however needs more than that before he stops being the Noobull.

    The reason I'm a bit reluctant to touch the Taurox vortex campaign is because it's unique to him, and altering the script could really make things a bit weird, or something. It is on my to-do list but if I tone it down too far it could break his campaign. It's something I need to play through at some point and then make the adjustments. I can of course attack it a few different ways, by lowing the momentum gains or loss per turn, etc. We shall see.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021

    played a little bit. it's better.

    however there is another glaring issue that still makes bm braindead. hidden encampent. not only is it so op to be completely invisible, but also to be able to do that after razing settlement makes it even worse.

    what exactly happens? you raze settlement, go hiddne encamp,enemy sends army to colonise since they can't see you. next turn you attack them and they are at 50% hp.

    solution -> make hidden encamp based on ambus chance if possible. if you go encamp in high ambush chance terrain you get to be invisible. otherwise not. if that is not possible then at least reduce movement after razing to 0% so you can't just attack **** without caring what happens next.

    also, pigs don't have to be 2 turns to recruit imo, they are t2 unit.

    also, what is going on with traitor kin? this spell absolutely melts. i'm getting hundreds of kill every battle, too much for direct spell.

    That will only last early on for gains, as the ordertide and dawitide get better units/armies, you might do it one or twice later on, but it will get harder and will be counter attacked as you gain more armies. I've tried this and it really does happen. Sure, you could wipe a city out, but the armies that helped you are exposed and them tier 9's really do lay in the pain.

    As for the pigs, it's an easy change, and I did ask for feedback after it went live to see if the units added were somewhat right. So, one out of seven wasn't bad. I'll write that down now, and I've not touched any of the spells.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    Ah, the fall of Kislev.




    Time to put the dwarfs to the torch. >:)


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • whatever14whatever14 Registered Users Posts: 464
    edited July 2021
    Lucifer said:

    played a little bit. it's better.

    however there is another glaring issue that still makes bm braindead. hidden encampent. not only is it so op to be completely invisible, but also to be able to do that after razing settlement makes it even worse.

    what exactly happens? you raze settlement, go hiddne encamp,enemy sends army to colonise since they can't see you. next turn you attack them and they are at 50% hp.

    solution -> make hidden encamp based on ambus chance if possible. if you go encamp in high ambush chance terrain you get to be invisible. otherwise not. if that is not possible then at least reduce movement after razing to 0% so you can't just attack **** without caring what happens next.

    also, pigs don't have to be 2 turns to recruit imo, they are t2 unit.

    also, what is going on with traitor kin? this spell absolutely melts. i'm getting hundreds of kill every battle, too much for direct spell.

    That will only last early on for gains, as the ordertide and dawitide get better units/armies, you might do it one or twice later on, but it will get harder and will be counter attacked as you gain more armies. I've tried this and it really does happen. Sure, you could wipe a city out, but the armies that helped you are exposed and them tier 9's really do lay in the pain.

    As for the pigs, it's an easy change, and I did ask for feedback after it went live to see if the units added were somewhat right. So, one out of seven wasn't bad. I'll write that down now, and I've not touched any of the spells.
    i don't understand what are you saying. how is it getting countered? because armies around you get attacked? isn't that a good thing since you can lure ai to attack your army and then ambushing him with 2 armies?

    besides, if you are worried for other armies you can put them too in hidden encamp, no?
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021

    Lucifer said:

    played a little bit. it's better.

    however there is another glaring issue that still makes bm braindead. hidden encampent. not only is it so op to be completely invisible, but also to be able to do that after razing settlement makes it even worse.

    what exactly happens? you raze settlement, go hiddne encamp,enemy sends army to colonise since they can't see you. next turn you attack them and they are at 50% hp.

    solution -> make hidden encamp based on ambus chance if possible. if you go encamp in high ambush chance terrain you get to be invisible. otherwise not. if that is not possible then at least reduce movement after razing to 0% so you can't just attack **** without caring what happens next.

    also, pigs don't have to be 2 turns to recruit imo, they are t2 unit.

    also, what is going on with traitor kin? this spell absolutely melts. i'm getting hundreds of kill every battle, too much for direct spell.

    That will only last early on for gains, as the ordertide and dawitide get better units/armies, you might do it one or twice later on, but it will get harder and will be counter attacked as you gain more armies. I've tried this and it really does happen. Sure, you could wipe a city out, but the armies that helped you are exposed and them tier 9's really do lay in the pain.

    As for the pigs, it's an easy change, and I did ask for feedback after it went live to see if the units added were somewhat right. So, one out of seven wasn't bad. I'll write that down now, and I've not touched any of the spells.
    i don't understand what are you saying. how is it getting countered? because armies around you get attacked? isn't that a good thing since you can lure ai to attack your army and then ambushing him with 2 armies?

    besides, if you are worried for other armies you can put them too in hidden encamp, no?
    As the ai's economies improve they are drawn to your presence and colonization prospects. So the more you're active near that and your herdstones; the more bigger armies will make a b-line to you, and these can come from many armies you're at war with and keeping them herstones alive can get hard. So yes, you can lay ambushes and attack cities but you will start to lose armies later on. Early on is where the beastmen are stronger, but with these dread and cost changes, it slows the pace down, a lot.

    Also, because of the larger amounts of dread needed for a legendary lord, you may have to use normal lords more so losing one of them, you will feel it after speccing them and paying for their upgrades.

    Lore wise, as I am aware, the beastmen haven't been wiped out, ever, and the hidden encampments help reflect that. You might get knocked down to one army, maybe even lose the game if you're careless. Lots of factors happen. As far as I'm aware, other armies that join the main one for an attack on a city, lose their movement and are subject to counter attack.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 2,177
    edited July 2021
    So funny, after posting that picture of the fall of Kislev and discussing losing a lord. It just happened to me in a Skaven counter attack and I lost my army and herdstone. >:)




    Nice to also see we can offer trade agreements. I thought we could only receive them!




    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
    Kislev - from darkness to light.19/3

    My steam workshop - mods.
  • whatever14whatever14 Registered Users Posts: 464
    Lucifer said:

    Lucifer said:

    played a little bit. it's better.

    however there is another glaring issue that still makes bm braindead. hidden encampent. not only is it so op to be completely invisible, but also to be able to do that after razing settlement makes it even worse.

    what exactly happens? you raze settlement, go hiddne encamp,enemy sends army to colonise since they can't see you. next turn you attack them and they are at 50% hp.

    solution -> make hidden encamp based on ambus chance if possible. if you go encamp in high ambush chance terrain you get to be invisible. otherwise not. if that is not possible then at least reduce movement after razing to 0% so you can't just attack **** without caring what happens next.

    also, pigs don't have to be 2 turns to recruit imo, they are t2 unit.

    also, what is going on with traitor kin? this spell absolutely melts. i'm getting hundreds of kill every battle, too much for direct spell.

    That will only last early on for gains, as the ordertide and dawitide get better units/armies, you might do it one or twice later on, but it will get harder and will be counter attacked as you gain more armies. I've tried this and it really does happen. Sure, you could wipe a city out, but the armies that helped you are exposed and them tier 9's really do lay in the pain.

    As for the pigs, it's an easy change, and I did ask for feedback after it went live to see if the units added were somewhat right. So, one out of seven wasn't bad. I'll write that down now, and I've not touched any of the spells.
    i don't understand what are you saying. how is it getting countered? because armies around you get attacked? isn't that a good thing since you can lure ai to attack your army and then ambushing him with 2 armies?

    besides, if you are worried for other armies you can put them too in hidden encamp, no?
    As the ai's economies improve they are drawn to your presence and colonization prospects. So the more you're active near that and your herdstones; the more bigger armies will make a b-line to you, and these can come from many armies you're at war with and keeping them herstones alive can get hard. So yes, you can lay ambushes and attack cities but you will start to lose armies later on. Early on is where the beastmen are stronger, but with these dread and cost changes, it slows the pace down, a lot.

    Also, because of the larger amounts of dread needed for a legendary lord, you may have to use normal lords more so losing one of them, you will feel it after speccing them and paying for their upgrades.

    Lore wise, as I am aware, the beastmen haven't been wiped out, ever, and the hidden encampments help reflect that. You might get knocked down to one army, maybe even lose the game if you're careless. Lots of factors happen. As far as I'm aware, other armies that join the main one for an attack on a city, lose their movement and are subject to counter attack.
    the army that reinforces doesn't lose movement. it's the army that attacks the settlement that loses movement, unless it' sacking. that's how it normally works. but taurox (idk for rest if the LL) for whatever reason gets extra movement after razing.

    i mean this is basically get out of jail free card. whenever you get in a bad spot you can just go in hidden encamp and whatever. let's at least increase amount of movement needed to go in encamp.
  • HappyBoomerHappyBoomer Registered Users Posts: 284
    Remove the color code for magic lores on shamans and great bray shamans. I HATE IT!
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