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The final content to finish Dwarfs of

Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
Welcome, welcome!

Originally I wanted to wait a bit longer but since I finished it anyway, here we are.
I do not care who Dwarfs are paired against but I believe they will only get 1 more DLC. Originally I was hoping it would be Thorek Ironbrow with rune themed units but since he is already part of the game, this was obviously no longer happening. Well, there are other themes. Or rather, theme because there is only 1 theme left that is worthy of DLC. And only 1 option to lead this DLC as Legendary Lord.
Also, yes there are pictures of Vermintide 2 in there. Never played the game myself, not my style but the pictures became quite handy.

Now, on to the main event.

New Characters



Grimm Burloksson
The son of Burlok Damminsson, the head of the Engineers Guild, has always shown outstanding signs as an inventor, even at a young age. Where other beardlings would still learn the mere basics of their work, Grimm Burloksson would invent a self-lightning pipe, a steam-powered beard-braider and a double-barrelled rifle. Over time he invented other things as well, such as a telescopic sight that fits over his battle helm and steam-powered gauntlet. He is a headstrong engineer, taking experiments far beyond of what is expected by all young Engineers and many say that he is heading down a dark path. A path that his father too once walked and that ended in the pain of a lost limb and the humiliation of a friend.
And maybe they are right, maybe one day Grimm will take his ways of trial and error too far but for now, his path has lead him to a stage were such a harsh fate seems hardly possible. Now this young genius has set sights to a different kind of goal for a opportunity has presented itself. His experiments have brought him into contact with a foe, well known in the Great Book of Grudges. Committed so slay this ancient enemy and to proof the worth of this inventions he has gathered an army at the doors of Zhufbar and with the approval of his father and the might of the engineers guild at his back, he is marching to the east. Prospectors are gathering, their Steamdrills at hand and Grudge Rakers and Crank Guns a plenty have been given to Thunderers and Ironwardens a like. Mighty Thunderbarges are roaming through the skies and new Rune Guardians, crafted from the Engineers Guild and awakened through the runes Thorek Ironbrow has brought from Lustria, are marching between the Dwarfs. Ancient Knowledge and new inventions are united and with his father as advisor, who should stop Grimm Burloksson?

Now, enough Lore bla-bla. As you can see, Grimm Burloksson has become my choice for DLC Lord in this proposal. Originally an 8th edition character from the hero department he has now become as full fledged Legendary Lord. Now, he can pretty much do what every generic engineer character can do. As far as yellow skills are concerned at least, since otherwise he is your normal lord. There is one exception though and I am not talking Immortality of course. I am talking this line of skills.



That one is not happening for young Grimm. No Dead Eye or any other skills of this line except Ballistic Calibration. He is bound to his Grudge Raker from the beginning and no chance going away from it. Now, since he has double-barrelled Grudge Raker I would give him a unique version of this skill. It could work like the item Double Barrel does, which is a bonus to reload time reduction and missile strength but maybe a stronger version of it. Could look like this.



However, he does of course also get some unique stuff for himself. I though of 2 different lines, one based on his actual army book rules and focusing on improving artillery and ranged units and the other one based on what he has invented and focusing on improving himself.
I was also thinking of another 2, at least, skills but these two would be mutually exclusive. These two would pretty much determine if Grimm goes too far with his experiments and goes full Outcast or if he “sees the error of his ways” to put it this way and becomes a bit more what the older engineers would want him to be. Both would of course have their own effects.

Then we also have to think about his personal items and if we keep the Cog Axe at this position, I think this is enough. Never got appeal of several unique items for every Legendary Lord anyway. Now to the Cog Axe. In the AB it has an ability called “Weaponsnapper”. Long story short, if you hit an opponent with a magic weapon and have lucky dice the weapon of your opponent is destroyed and cannot be used any more. Sound interesting but also hard to transport over to Total War. I had to think a bit but in the end I got an idea:
Passive ability that is only active when Grimm is in melee. Any weapon related ability his opponent may have is rendered zero. Means no Gitsnik-ability buff for Grimgor for example, as long as he is fighting Grimm but only the abilities, not some mere stat changes or anything else.
Now, lets go back to his unique skills and lets start with the one line of skill that is pretty much untouched except for the amount of points you would spent:



The only difference between a hero and Grimm is that the latter would only need to spent 1 point per skill to get the highest effect. I figured this would be a nice little way to show that he is, at least as far as this game goes, above Master Engineers and Grandmaster Engineers.
Now, I did say that Grimm would of course also get some unique skills and I did prepare something for that as well.



This is the line that is completely based upon his rules in the armybook, except Ballistic Calibrations but I figured that it would fit in nicely.
Now to the skills from left to right we have Artillery Adjustments first. I have never played TT in any kind, way, shape or form but from how I understand this rule, a simple increase of range is already a very good translation but I would add reload time reduction too. The rule itself says a piece of artillery could use Grimms Ballistic Skill and re-roll one artillery dice that can determines the distance a cannonball bounces. And every time I read this I cannot help but think that Dwarfs use highly bouncy cannonballs like it is some oversized rubber ball.
Anyway, back to topic and on to next skill. Increased Range is, well, Increased Range. That is exactly what it is called in the AB and that is exactly what it is called here. Now, in the AB this goes only for crossbows and handguns. Handguns are okay, crossbows not so much. We already have Thorek to buff Quarrellers give us Gatling-Gun-Crossbows. I love my Gatling-Gun-Crossbows but I do not need them on everyone. So, to put it into actual unit names, I would give this only to Thunderers, Irondrakes and Ironwardens. Gotta have some special love for the DLC units after all.
As far as Superior Volley is concerned, the AB says it allows you to re-roll missed To Hit rolls. I decided to go for a simple boost of Missile Strength for the army.

Now, this concluded the first line of unique skills for Grimm Burloksson but remember, more to come. After we are done with his line for his army, time to show you his line for himself:



And once again, the first skill of this line is a bit odd compared to the others. You see, Genius Engineer has nothing to do with what he has invented, though it fits the overall theme but is simple the little boost to Research Rate the Grandmaster Engineer would get as well. It is the other three skills that are based on his inventions, though I admit they are only about 2 things. The first of the three is about his name and would boost Grimms melee capabilities even further. I know you already get a lot with Technical Enhancements boosting Armour and Armour Piercing Damage. And you know hat? Even more Armour Piercing Damage! But mostly this is about Melee Attack.
Now, the other two skills are for his Grudge-Raker, meaning, for his ranged damage. Time for a bit more range and more accuracy. We can't let our Legendary Lord running with a normal Grudge-Raker now, can we?

On the next point, we are still not at the end, stay with me, but we are getting close to it. Now it is time we look at his skills where you have to decide what you want.



Well, which way will your Grimm go? Will he reign in with the lines of the Guild in which case he is good to go for the next Guildmaster? Or will he go the other way, leaving the guild behind and walk down the path of his way of engineering to whatever goal this may lead? Both will give you another boost to your Research Rate, so it is truly only about the other benefits. Going along with the guild would mean more recruitment ranks for your engineer lords and heroes, going the other way would mean much cheaper Ironwarden and Thunderbarges for Grimms army.
So, now we are done. Almost. One last picture left. You have seen all the skills on their own. Now it is time to present you the whole picture, which has used the plain old Dward Lord as base and no mount is on purpose.



With this picture, I now, again almost, conclude Grimm Burloksson, the DLC lord of this work. I say “almost” because after doing already so much, why should I skip the faction and lord effects?
For the faction effects, I would go for his personal mechanic, a boost on research rate and an increase of the recruitment capacity of engineer heroes.
For his personal effects, I would go for a reduction of upkeep and reload time for Thunderers, Irondrakes and Ironwardens. Since I kinda like having 3 effects on every side, I would also add a bonus on the recruitment rank for all artillery units.

Now I am done with Grimm Burloksson.


Josef Bugman
After the DLC lord comes the FLC lord but do not worry, it wont take that long again. Maybe.
The Dwarfs take their ale seriously and they are known for having many famous and renowned brewers but even with such competition, the name of Bugman stands for a quality of its own. Josef Bugman inherited a Brewery from his father and brew ale of such quality that it found its way to the tables of the likes of the Emperor of Mankind or the High King of Karaz Ankor. But these days of glory would come to an cruel and bitter end as a Goblin Warlord attacked the brewery while Josef Bugman was away. With his base of operation destroyed and all dwarfs dragged away to an unkown fate, Josef and his companions swore an mighty oath of vengeance and every since then, nothing but rumours of the deeds of Josef Bugman and his Rangers have been heard.
Josef Bugman, the FLC Legendary Lord. I do not really care how he comes over as FLC but what I do care about is his gameplay. First, I would give him a crossbow. I know, he is not exactly shown with one in his artwork and model but with the, possible, exception of Grimm the Dwarfs do only have melee lords. Thorek might be the “caster lord” for them but by the end of the day he too goes only into melee. Also because it would better fit with his rangers I think. However, that would be not the only thing unique about him, aside from his skills. His gameplay would mainly be determined by two things: The building line that produces Dwarf Beer as resource can be constructed in every settlement for it has been moved down a tier to range from 1 to 3 instead from 2 to 4 and Josef self would be a semi-horde. Now, the part with the Dwarf Beer in every settlement should be clear but what do I mean with semi-horde?
I kind of think of the Vampire Coast in this case. However the building option would be very limited. I am really thinking stuff like just 4 buildings or something. Really not much at all. For example, I would his horde let recruit nothing but units coming with Vanguard Deployment. Which, I believe, would be only Miners and Rangers in all their variation but he himself would have it too. The other buildings would be about him being able to sustain himself. So, more movement, replenishment and money through battle or stuff like that. Of course having no settlement left would not bother him but you would then be limited to the recruitment options of your army and they would indeed be rather limited. Another point on Josef Bugman is of course his unique items. For this one I would simply go again for only one thing and that would be his axe, “Ol' Thrustworthy”. From what I understand of its rules (Armour Piercing special rule and +1 to Attack and Strength) giving Frenzy sounds kind of fitting.
I am afraid that I might be end up in Bugmans Book of Grudges but he will not get a nice little picture with his skills. I am just gonna write it down in short order:
His second item, Bugmans Tankard, would be part of his unique skill set and give “Liquid Fortification” to the entire army. His other skills could give his entire army Vanguard Deployment, buff rangers, make more income through battle and influence Ambush success chance.

And with this, Josef Bugman is concluded and he too would have no mount.


Grandmaster Engineer
A Lord level version of the Master Engineer, that is all. I was thinking about naming “Master Engineer Lord” but it did not ring well with me, so I went for Grandmaster. They can do pretty much everything a Master Engineer can do and a bit more. That said, there would be at least one difference in terms of skills and that is about this line:



To put it simple, the Grandmaster would always be able to invest 1 point less while still getting same effect at max level. At first I was thinking about changing something on that but then I decided against it. After all, you could easily do it anyway but just putting an Engineer hero with a Dwarf Lord. Also, since Master Engineers are the hero for stealing technology it would give the lord version a skill to boost research rate, as I said above. By the way, I can imagine them getting Gyrocopters as mounts.
Now, I was thinking about adding a Guildmaster as generic lord option first but I decided against it. The simple, also sad, reason is that a proper representation of Guildmasters, at least in my opinion, would require several models since we have a huge number of guilds. At least several weapon variations and neither has ever happened for Dwarfs by now. Also because Guildmaster are already a follower for Dwarfs.


Dragon Slayer
As far as the Dragon Slayer goes, there is actually not much to say. Most important would be that they are now finally the proper Assassin Hero the Dwarfs do not have. I believe the Thane is handling this department right now and I must say I do not think it fits him.
Gameplay-wise there is not much to say either. You know how Slayer work, so here is the hero version of it(and all of sudden the lack of a generic Slayer character makes kind of sense). Though if you want some special skills I suppose there could be some sort of Leadership buff every time he kills an SEM and if you do not want him to get stuck in a horde of Goblins or Zombies I suppose a temporarily Bonus against Infantry would not be so bad either.

New Units



Prospectors
Prospectors are originally the champion or hero unit of the Miners and even in the AB only them could take a Steamdrill. They would work kind of like the Warp Grinders the Skaven have but I think a differentiation in their abilities would be a good idea. Not completely different though, for an ability to slow down in an AoE is too good to pass up and I find it kind of fitting. Aside from this though, I'd let them summon a unit of miners on the battlefield. Maybe even let them throw something, not sure about this though.

Ironwarden
The Ironwarden is to the Irondrakes what is the prospector to the Miners. Except Crank Guns are not a thing in the armybook but as it is written in the picture above, I think they would make a fine T5 infantry. I do not believe that every race should have infantry in such a high level but for Dwarfs? Yeah, I think it suits them just fine.

Rune Guardian
Something that should have been coming with Thorek but here we are. Regardless, I want them in! I do not care about the Shard Dragon and I am ready to put the fabulous, magnificent, awe-inspiring Rune Golems to the side but never will I discharge the Rune Guardians. They must come!
Obviously they would be a monstrous infantry. I imagine them being slow, lots of armour and tons of armour piercing. Maybe even Magic Attack. You know, them being runic and all. They could make for a nice cavalry killer I suppose.

Thunderbarge
Now we get to the big, flashy part of the new units. I must admit though, originally Thunderbarges were not even supposed to be a unit here. At first I only thought of them as a new race wide mechanic. Something sort of a flying Black Arc.
Well, that was in the past, now they are simply another unit. Though “simply” is actually kinda wrong. I mean, there are an obvious T5 unit and I can imagine them working like some sort of flying artillery piece. A flying Cannon basically, with a special ability that would work like a bombardment spell and another ability to summon a unit of Gyrocopters.
Another thing with them is there melee department or rather the lack of it. I have seen some discussions on how their melee movements would work, how they would land and so on. To put it simple, they do not. No landing for the Thunderbarge until it gets destroyed. That would really be the only time. Also, the melee stats would be horrible. Really, it is a flying artillery so it needs protection. I would also give this unit two RoR. One being the Wrath of Thunder and the other one being the Spirit of Grungni. I would give the wrath of Thunder a Queen Bess effect on normal shots while the Spirit of Grungni would get an ability like a Wind Spell.
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Comments

  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923

    New Unit Variations



    Grudge Raker
    I have put this up as an entirely new weapon variation but I do wonder if it would not be better or more interesting to give them the option to switch between ammunition. Like the artillery of the High Elves or Dark Elves, don't get the name right now, can switch between ammunition.


    Hammer & Shield
    The picture says “To protect the Anvil of Doom” and that was originally my intention. Instead of having “Guardian” as ability, they would have “Anvil Guard” as ability, which would give them more Melee Defence and Magic Attack in my idea when an Anvil of Doom is near. Now I am wondering if Hammerers in general could need such an ability or rather, if Runelords should get an ability that benefits Hammerers when they are close by. Right now and please correct me if I am wrong on this, Hammerers give nearby lords and heroes a bonus on their Physical Resistance but the Hammerers themselves get nothing for this is how Guardian works.
    Now to go one step further, why not making this a synergy? Not just an one-sided effect but give the other side an ability too? At least the lords. Thorgrim already does that for he returns the favour with the Physical Resistance for Hammerers in his army.

    After a quick look in the game, it turns out the High King does not only give Hammerers Physical Resistance but also Guardian itself. Which means they do not even have this normally. Great. Not. Anyway, continuing with topic now.

    Runelords could give, as already written above, more Melee Defence and Magic Attack. Dwarf Lords could give more Leadership and Melee Attack and Daemon Slayers could give Hammerers Bonus vs Infantry so they can clear the chaff and make room for the meeting with the big ones.


    Greatweapons
    This is honestly actually just here because Bugman is FLC Legendary Lord. This is really more about giving them one more weapon option in general. Dual Weapons would work too, though they are not an option in the AB if I remember correctly.
    Actually, now that I wrote it, I would prefer them. Give Bugmans Rangers dual Weapons to have a complete new weapon variation for Rangers in general. I only wonder if would be better to give them Crossbows or Throwing Axes alongside it.


    Drakefire Pistol
    Ironically the first option that came to my mind ended up being only there because I wanted to have four options again.

    New Mechanics



    Bugmanns Brewery
    What is a new Legendary Lord without an unique mechanic? Thus I give you Bugmanns Brewery, which I have seen getting mentioned at least a dozen times on the official forum. Basically, I would base this one off of Groms Cauldron. Not much more to say here.


    Grimms Workshop
    Every Engineer needs his own workshop, so Grimm gets one too of course. However, I would lets this one work a bit different. Might actually be even more accurate to call it “Grimms Inventions”.To better show what I mean I will give you an example with certain technologies:
    Steam Drills
    Militia Training
    Call to Clan
    Yes I know I left out the Warriors but they do not matter for this one. Upon researching said technologies you would then unlock “Grimms Mining Inventions”. This would then give you 3 “Invention Points”, 1 for every needed technology. These Invention Points could then be spent on the 3 effects of this part of the Inventions. Now, there would be always only 3 effects following but you get a cost increase of 1, every time you spent a point in the Inventions. Now, this would only go for the same invention department, so if your spent 1 point in Mining Inventions then the next time it would cost 2 points but if you spent 1 point in Mining Inventions and then go over to, lets say, “Air Inventions” for your first time, it would still only cost 1 point.
    Since I have already brought up “Air Inventions” I figured I'd name the needed technologies to unlock that:
    Improved Gyrocopter Engines
    Pressure-Regulating Valves
    Operations Training
    Assembly Lines
    As you can see, this time we have 4 needed technologies, which would then give you 4 Invention Points. Well, for this example here, I limited myself to only name the technologies who sit at the end of their branches but of course, the number could be increased. For example, for Air Inventions you could add “Heavy Armour Plating” since this too does buff your flying units, which would then give you 5 Invention Points since 5 technologies would be needed.
    Now, the 3 effects of every department of the inventions would always have effects to influence the related units and related campaign gameplay. For Mining Inventions for example it could like this:
    A new Alloy: Increases production of trade-able resources ; boosts AP damage from Miners and Prospectors
    The deep Mines: Increases chance to stop an underground moving army in the province ; cheapens upkeep cost for Miners and Prospectors
    Shift System: More income from related Mines ; Vigour loss reduction for Miners and Prospectors.

    At the very least I would make 4 invention departments. One to include every DLC unit so to speak.


    Daemon Slayer
    Yes, you do see right. Daemon Slayers are a new mechanic. But they are also a new lord choice. However, they have a limited capacity, depending on how many Slayer Shrines at highest building level you have. Also, as written above, only Ungrimm Ironfist can have them at all. They are his unique mechanic, so that the Slayer King can have something too.
    Thorgrim seems to have a special twist when it comes down to solving Grudges from the book so every Dwarf LL would then have something. Maybe not big but it does not has to be.


    Weapon of Choice
    That is actually something I would not mind to see for a number of races. But for know, just for the dwarfs. Basically, when you recruit a generic hero or a lord, you get a dilemma window with a number of choices, where you now can decide what weapons your hero or lord would be equipped with and only when your are done here, will the model actually appear on the campaign map. I have looked into 8th edition armybook for options.

    Lord & Thane: Handweapon + Shield ; Greatweapon ;
    D&D Slayers: Dual Wielding Handweapon ; Greatweapon

    That is the kind of hero and lord I really want to see this mechanic for: your dedicated melee grinders. To give them a bit more flexibility compared to the other options. Giving this to the other heroes and lords, as far as they can have something like that, would be nice too of course. Also, there could be more options too, at least for Lord & Thane in this case but at the least let us choose between melee-only options.

    Rework

    I admit including a rework was originally not part of the plan. CA have done an amazing job with the rework they delivered alongside Thorek. I really think there is not much left right now that needs some rework aside from some minor points and things I may have already mentioned above. Well, there is one thing though, that seems to have be forgotten with the current rework. Or maybe CA thought he was good? I am talking about the plain old Dwarf Lord for he has not been touched at all. Below now a screenshot from after DLC.



    As you can see you do not see much. Now, what skills to give him? Frankly, I would go along with one of the mechanics I created above and make his skills dependent on his weapons. If you go with Handweapon + Shield his skills would be more defensive and focusing on buffing units with shields. If you go Greatweapon his skills would simply be the other way around. If that is not possible than I would simply allow him to have both, unrelated with whatever weapons he has but make them mutually exclusive.

    Honourable mention goes to the skill Ancestral Grudge which buffs Weapon Strength only against Greenskins but it should include Skaven too.

    And now this work is finished.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    What if Deamon Slayer were tied to a building? If you're not the Slayer King you can't have them as fast while still being able to get them

    In turn Umgrim would have more difficulty getting the Lord/Runelord/Grandmaster Engineer (Whose name I would prefer to be Guild Master, so that Bugman also has his Generic Lord) but have normal Deamon Slayer as his Lord choice

    Also what if Bugman was a Horde like Nakai, with a Vassal (or maybe 3, Dwarf, and clients faction) but you can build an underempire (Named Tavern) that let you build a small garrison (putting you as reinforcement during seiges) and letting you build small armies from them.

  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 4,604
    edited July 19
    Engineer lords that provide army buffs to ranged units in the same way engineer heroes do are a terrible idea. They already have the red tree. This is just even more buffstacking for already dominating units which will break the game even faster.

    Dwarfs need more playstyles, not more buffs to the already optimal playstyle.
  • roekkumroekkum Registered Users Posts: 367
    Superb post, Cortes!

    Only missing here that I can see are juggernaughts and rune golems, which would fill roster holes more than great weapon variants.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 860
    Not a comment about the whole work (which is **** massive), but i want to specifically give my 2 cents about the unit variants section.
    • On grudge rakers, you are proposing (if i understood your post) to have them switchable in the thunderers unit together with their standard longer range rifles. I'm not a fan of this, and the reason why (in short) is that in theory (for the thunderers with rifles in practice since they already exist) both unit variants should be very powerful.
      Specifically, i think switching between different weapons/ammos is good but only when the base unit is trash, and therefore benefits from an added versatility, or when one variant is so restrictive that you'll never use said variant (which is why, for example, i think dwarf warriors will benefir from weapon switching more, since Dwarfs playstyle favors so much "hold and tank" frontlines which obviously damages two handed weapons).
    • On hammerers with hammer and shield my biggest concern is that they'll be too much similar to ironbreakers. I know you made them to be kind of escorts and get buffs by various heroes/lords in that sense, but still i don't see why between them and ironbreakers i shouldn't just take the one with more MD and shield block chance.
      We could apply the logic above of having a single hammerer unit and have it switch between "small hammer and shield" or "big 2h hammer", though this could make the classic 2h version less "interesting" (while balanced terribly, hammerers are still visually and functionally unique in the Dwarf roster, and giving them some form of shield could damage this uniqueness). I'm not against it, but not really sold on it.
    • On great weapons for rangers i'mm 100% for it, but for **** sake not how the quarrellers did. It's a dumb variant since no one uses quarrellers for melee fights, and is even dumbers since it lowers MD (and not even by a small ammount) which is their only relevant melee stats (given they're a ranged unit).
      On throwing axes (like rangers did) i'm totally fine, but god please not the bs quarrellers variant please.
    • On drakefire pistols again i'm totally fine with it. I see it good as an alternative to the classic ironbreaker with grenades, but i wouldn't give it too much importance. Aka ironbreakers are still ubertanky axe and shield guys, and the grenades/drakefire pistols serve as a sidearm to damage the charging target a bit before the melee fight begin.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,093
    Very cool concept for a dawo DLC and one I could fully get behind. I like your proposed LL, Units and Mechanics.

    Though one thing in regard to legendary weapons: you mentioned the cog-axe as Grimms sole legendary weapon. But as in inventor I think he should have acccess to more. Maybe not as a quest but from the beginning (like Ikit Claws Iron Frame), or as an unlockable via his unique mechanic.
    E.g. he invented the dwarfen equivalent of power armour. So an armour that does not only gets him more defense but also increase his offensive stats would be nice. Or a unique gun.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • SagezSagez Registered Users Posts: 133
    It's a great and high-quality post, I really like it.
  • AraethonAraethon Registered Users Posts: 829
    Cool concept but I can't really see them leaving out units such as Doomseekers and the Goblin Hewer, considering they seem to be the next closest thing we have to official units.
  • K3KevilinioK3Kevilinio Registered Users Posts: 175
    Thanks for your Post. I'd love to see an Dwarfen Engineer LL. The biggest thing i need to make my Darwi complete is the Thunderbarge. I'd love to hunt those Flying units with it down! That nasty Elves Dragons. The other things are a bonus for me! :)

    Every additional unit will made it even better. I don't mind if we get 2 DLC's for the dwarfs but there is not much left to add. So your suggestion sounds correct. If there are other units like goblin hewer instead of rune golems it would be fine for me too.

    But if there is a possibility to get all Darwi units like Rune Golems, Goblin Hewer, etc. i would love it.

    I'd also would love to see a unique Shard Dragon as secret Quest Battle Reward. So you only can get one. But since it needs an unique Model and Animations this would be to cost intensive to do as a unique Unit without promoting it. (So the Shard Dragon Fans can use it and the not fans could kill it in the quest battle so they don't have to use it and get an unique Buff or something like that?) :)

    There are a lot conservative Darwi fans who don't like Rune Golems or Shard Dragons. I can understand it. But there has to be a possibility to make all fans happy. :wink: But lets talk about the great post and Discuss the Topic of the Final Darwi DLC! :)

  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,626
    10/10 for the effort but you cant say there is only 1 theme left for DLC when Malakai and the missing slayer variants are a thing.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,279
    Really a lot went into this post, thanks.

    I would prefer an Engineer/Slayer hybrid theme instead of the mainly Engineer one you developped. After all, Shadow and Blade was such a DLC: Rakarth had Beastmaster themed units and Eshin had Eshin/Skyre units.

    I want to assume that the Dwarf DLC (if there is one, which I would rate as plausible) would be a joint venture Engineer Guild + Slayers to reach far away lands in the East to gather lost technology. Of course, the mission looks pretty doomed from the start so slayers are flocking to it.

    DLC LL: Grimm
    DLC LH: Malakai
    Generic Lord: Guildmaster (range Lord)
    Generic Hero: Dragon Slayer (There be Dragons in China Cathay)

    Units:
    Prospectors ("Warp-Grinders for Dwarfs")
    Doomseekers
    Goblin Hewer
    Thunderbarge (a great Grim/Malakai cooperation)

    FLC or TWA Lord: Joseph Bugman.

    This would in my opinion "finish" the Dwarfs with a bang. I'm fine also if the Deamon Slayer is made into a Karak Kadrin specific Lord.
  • ChristofferOrmeusChristofferOrmeus Registered Users Posts: 21
    Love the ideas, and a very thourgh post!

    I would rather see Bugman as a LH, and i think that LH:s in general would be a great way of bringing more uniqe characters into the game, but hey, a LL would be sweet to!
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
    arthadaw said:

    What if Deamon Slayer were tied to a building? If you're not the Slayer King you can't have them as fast while still being able to get them

    In turn Umgrim would have more difficulty getting the Lord/Runelord/Grandmaster Engineer (Whose name I would prefer to be Guild Master, so that Bugman also has his Generic Lord) but have normal Deamon Slayer as his Lord choice

    Also what if Bugman was a Horde like Nakai, with a Vassal (or maybe 3, Dwarf, and clients faction) but you can build an underempire (Named Tavern) that let you build a small garrison (putting you as reinforcement during seiges) and letting you build small armies from them.

    No more vassals, please. One **** up campaign is enough.
    Interesting ideas for the Daemon Slayers though.
    elkapp said:

    Not a comment about the whole work (which is **** massive), but i want to specifically give my 2 cents about the unit variants section.

    • On grudge rakers, you are proposing (if i understood your post) to have them switchable in the thunderers unit together with their standard longer range rifles. I'm not a fan of this, and the reason why (in short) is that in theory (for the thunderers with rifles in practice since they already exist) both unit variants should be very powerful.
      Specifically, i think switching between different weapons/ammos is good but only when the base unit is trash, and therefore benefits from an added versatility, or when one variant is so restrictive that you'll never use said variant (which is why, for example, i think dwarf warriors will benefir from weapon switching more, since Dwarfs playstyle favors so much "hold and tank" frontlines which obviously damages two handed weapons).
    • On hammerers with hammer and shield my biggest concern is that they'll be too much similar to ironbreakers. I know you made them to be kind of escorts and get buffs by various heroes/lords in that sense, but still i don't see why between them and ironbreakers i shouldn't just take the one with more MD and shield block chance.
      We could apply the logic above of having a single hammerer unit and have it switch between "small hammer and shield" or "big 2h hammer", though this could make the classic 2h version less "interesting" (while balanced terribly, hammerers are still visually and functionally unique in the Dwarf roster, and giving them some form of shield could damage this uniqueness). I'm not against it, but not really sold on it.
    Grudge-Rakers: Actually the example with the Dwarf Warriors w Greatweapons is part of the reason as to why I went for the switch. I agree with you there.
    Hammerers: Well Ironbreakers do still throw their explosives which Hammerers would obviously not do. I mean IBs are, at least for me, lategame frontline units which would be not the case for Hammerers unless you want to keep the lord on the frontline too.
    And I just noticed I forgot the Grandmaster Engineer. Could go for Missile Resistance there.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    No more vassals, please. One **** up campaign is enough.


    Nakai fixed would be great, I love hordes and the special settlement make them bearable even for non Horde enjoyer

    Nakai should have a better control over his Vassal and let him build upon a more restricted settlement
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
    edited July 22
    arthadaw said:

    No more vassals, please. One **** up campaign is enough.


    Nakai fixed would be great, I love hordes and the special settlement make them bearable even for non Horde enjoyer

    Nakai should have a better control over his Vassal and let him build upon a more restricted settlement
    Most important is that no one can declare war on your Vassal and dragging you into this. Especially not if they actually like you.

    Love the ideas, and a very thourgh post!

    I would rather see Bugman as a LH, and i think that LH:s in general would be a great way of bringing more uniqe characters into the game, but hey, a LL would be sweet to!

    Frankly I can see him being a LH too but I am not very fond of adding LH just for the sake of it.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Registered Users Posts: 2,799
    Thunderbarge, Dragonslayer, Grudge rakers and Rune Guardians are a must.
    No, i also dislike Garth Ennis. He is very juvenile and raunchy, and some of his statements are utterly ridiculous, like Captain America being offensive to WWII veterans when his co-creator, Jack Kirby, served in the war and soldiers liked his stories.

    If you think using your abilities to help and inspire people is childish, then i feel sorry for you.
  • damon40000damon40000 Registered Users Posts: 1,034
    thumbs up, great post dawi, dlc is almost writing by itself

    also RoR Thunderbarge of Malakai Makkaisson pretty please ;)
    BsFG dwarf
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    I'd really rather not see tabletop "Heroes" transformed into PC "Legendary Lords."
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,424
    Lampros73 said:

    I'd really rather not see tabletop "Heroes" transformed into PC "Legendary Lords."

    Lords and Heroes work differently on the tabletop compared to Total War. On the tabletop, a Hero could be the Army General. The only difference between Lords and Heroes was the point cost.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Currently eagerly awaiting the Ogre Kingdoms!
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    edited August 29

    Lampros73 said:

    I'd really rather not see tabletop "Heroes" transformed into PC "Legendary Lords."

    Lords and Heroes work differently on the tabletop compared to Total War. On the tabletop, a Hero could be the Army General. The only difference between Lords and Heroes was the point cost.
    I realize this. But the problem with putting all named Heroes as LL is that it guts potential LH spots - and LHs are an under-utilized, powerful mechanic that is very rewarding when done well (e.g. Kroak).

    Edit: Also, the map is getting excessively crowded with so many LLs running around - and WH3 will only likely exacerbate the problem.
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,424
    Lampros73 said:

    Lampros73 said:

    I'd really rather not see tabletop "Heroes" transformed into PC "Legendary Lords."

    Lords and Heroes work differently on the tabletop compared to Total War. On the tabletop, a Hero could be the Army General. The only difference between Lords and Heroes was the point cost.
    I realize this. But the problem with putting all named Heroes as LL is that it guts potential LH spots - and LHs are an under-utilized, powerful mechanic that is very rewarding when done well (e.g. Kroak).

    Edit: Also, the map is getting excessively crowded with so many LLs running around - and WH3 will only likely exacerbate the problem.
    I'm definitely not averse to more LHs when appropriate, they're cool and all, but I think most people would prefer more LLs when possible due to how much they change the game. An LL brings a new start position and often new mechanics. LLs are essentially entire new experiences while an LH is just a single unit.

    Furthermore, a lot of Heroes on the tabletop have lore that justifies, if not encouraging, them to lead their own factions. Lokhir Fellheart leads an entire fleet of Black Arks. Tretch Craventail is the ruler of Clan Rictus. Morghur leads massive armies of Beastmen to corrupt the Oak of Ages. All these characters were heroes on the tabletop but that's no reason to restrict their LL status.

    I don't think we'll need to worry too much about map space. If what CA says is true, Warhammer III may effectively double the map size.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Currently eagerly awaiting the Ogre Kingdoms!
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,222
    Lampros73 said:

    the map is getting excessively crowded with so many LLs running around

    How is that a bad thing? It's much more interesting to fight special characters than some generic nonames.

  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    edited August 29

    Lampros73 said:

    Lampros73 said:

    I'd really rather not see tabletop "Heroes" transformed into PC "Legendary Lords."

    Lords and Heroes work differently on the tabletop compared to Total War. On the tabletop, a Hero could be the Army General. The only difference between Lords and Heroes was the point cost.
    I realize this. But the problem with putting all named Heroes as LL is that it guts potential LH spots - and LHs are an under-utilized, powerful mechanic that is very rewarding when done well (e.g. Kroak).

    Edit: Also, the map is getting excessively crowded with so many LLs running around - and WH3 will only likely exacerbate the problem.
    I'm definitely not averse to more LHs when appropriate, they're cool and all, but I think most people would prefer more LLs when possible due to how much they change the game. An LL brings a new start position and often new mechanics. LLs are essentially entire new experiences while an LH is just a single unit.

    Furthermore, a lot of Heroes on the tabletop have lore that justifies, if not encouraging, them to lead their own factions. Lokhir Fellheart leads an entire fleet of Black Arks. Tretch Craventail is the ruler of Clan Rictus. Morghur leads massive armies of Beastmen to corrupt the Oak of Ages. All these characters were heroes on the tabletop but that's no reason to restrict their LL status.

    I don't think we'll need to worry too much about map space. If what CA says is true, Warhammer III may effectively double the map size.
    Sure; I am not against TT Heroes being transformed into PC LLs, if the lore is appropriate. But then there are many others cases where no such symmetry exists. Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies. Conversely, for fairness's sake, you should also consider that there are many TT Lords who have retained their status as Lords in the transition to PC when the justification is dubious. For instance, Grombrindal serves the same function that the Green Knight serves in lore, and he should have been appropriately cast as a PC LH.

    In terms of map space: Yes, the map can be expanded to accommodate more LLs. But that potentially may not be without costs, too. Do you remember end turn times in the early days of WH2? Who is to say that, say, doubling the map size won't revive those issues.
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    edited August 29
    SerPus said:

    Lampros73 said:

    the map is getting excessively crowded with so many LLs running around

    How is that a bad thing? It's much more interesting to fight special characters than some generic nonames.

    Wut? Kroak is "some generic noname"? He is indubitably the most powerful being to ever exist in the Warhammer fantasy universe. The Green Knight is the founder of Bretonnia and one of the two most powerful human character to ever live - along with Sigmar. And so on.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    Lampros73 said:


    Sure; I am not against TT Heroes being transformed into PC LLs, if the lore is appropriate. But then there are many others cases where no such symmetry exists. Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies. Conversely, for fairness's sake, you should also consider that there are many TT Lords who have retained their status as Lords in the transition to PC when the justification is dubious. For instance, Grombrindal serves the same function that the Green Knight serves in lore, and he should have been appropriately cast as a PC LH.

    Maybe the Green Knight could have been a LL ? Instead of Bordeleau
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    arthadaw said:

    Lampros73 said:


    Sure; I am not against TT Heroes being transformed into PC LLs, if the lore is appropriate. But then there are many others cases where no such symmetry exists. Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies. Conversely, for fairness's sake, you should also consider that there are many TT Lords who have retained their status as Lords in the transition to PC when the justification is dubious. For instance, Grombrindal serves the same function that the Green Knight serves in lore, and he should have been appropriately cast as a PC LH.

    Maybe the Green Knight could have been a LL ? Instead of Bordeleau
    As the Green Knight, no. His lore is that he appears in time of need, does his one-man army thing, and then disappears into the mist. However, in the End Times he is revealed to be Giles and re-assumes the crown. So perhaps he could undergo a name change in WH3 and then becomes his original self. That'd be an uber LL. And perhaps he can have Abhorash as his LH? ;)
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,222
    edited August 29
    Lampros73 said:

    Wut? Kroak is "some generic noname"?

    What? I'm talking about LLs replacing generic faction leaders on the map.
    Lampros73 said:

    Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies.

    Master Assassins have led Eshin armies in the 6th edition.
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,424
    SerPus said:


    Lampros73 said:

    Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies.

    Master Assassins have led Eshin armies in the 6th edition.
    Likewise, Snitkch was fully capable of being the Army General for Eshin armies in the Storm of Chaos supplement.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Currently eagerly awaiting the Ogre Kingdoms!
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281
    SerPus said:

    Lampros73 said:

    Wut? Kroak is "some generic noname"?

    What? I'm talking about LLs replacing generic faction leaders on the map.
    Lampros73 said:

    Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies.

    Master Assassins have led Eshin armies in the 6th edition.
    On the first quote, I think you misunderstood me in the original context. Or vice versa.

    On the second quote, that's irrelevant, as I was talking about Snitkch. He has a rule that specifically is titled "A Killer, Not a Leader."
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 281

    SerPus said:


    Lampros73 said:

    Snitkch is an example; he is a lone wolf assassin - and he specifically has a rule against leading armies.

    Master Assassins have led Eshin armies in the 6th edition.
    Likewise, Snitkch was fully capable of being the Army General for Eshin armies in the Storm of Chaos supplement.
    Storm of Chaos is no longer even canon.
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