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Now, more than ever, we need Hammerers w/ shields and Gate Keepers!

WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435
With the latest patch, which added the Guardian effect to Hammerers (when using Thorgrim), we really need new Hammerer variants:

1. Hammerers - with shields
2. Gate Keepers - with runic greathammers



Gatekeepers:
- Key Stats: Same stats as Hammerers, but with less HP/unit (82 health per entity), improved +20 (100) leadership, runic hammers (Rune of Parrying: +2 Melee Defense)
- Visuals: Greatweapon with glowing runes on hammers, cloaks to reflect their regal status of protecting the halls of the King, white/grey beards (like the RoR Peak Gate Guard) to reflect the age requirements to be a Gatekeeper.








General Hammerer Improvements:
- Charge Defense vs Large
- Unbreakable
- Variants: shielded w/ hand weapon and unshielded greatweapon.


!! FIX THOREK !!
1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

!! FIX THE RUNES !!

Comments

  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,721
    Can we get something like that "Whirling Death" toggleable Wardancer ability for Black Orcs while we're at it?
  • wingren013wingren013 Registered Users Posts: 1,015
    the shield only worked vs shooting in the tabletop. They were still using great weapons.

    It worked the same way for Empire Halberdiers.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,923
    Why would you need hammerers with shields? The army already has ironbreakers which are the best anvil in the game.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,721

    Why would you need hammerers with shields? The army already has ironbreakers which are the best anvil in the game.

    Because Hammerers could use a reason to exist :(.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,923
    Sephlock said:

    Why would you need hammerers with shields? The army already has ironbreakers which are the best anvil in the game.

    Because Hammerers could use a reason to exist :(.
    They do have a reason, they're great weapon infantry. That doesn't mean making up shielded variants though.

    Shooting in general needs to be nerfed and Dwarf GW infantry need some tweaking.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,132
    Hammerers are a lot better now.

    Still vulnerable to ranged fire, but that's because ranged fire is widely OP by virtue of being way too accurate and having too much AP.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 730
    What if we simply gave them "deflect shoot" like the Swordmaster of Hoeth ? The Hammerer are supposed to be some of the best warrior of the Dawi, just like the SM of Hoeth are for the elf ?
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,132
    FFS, lol. You're not going to have a Dwarf twirling that hammer around blazing fast like it's some sort of dainty featherweight elgi toothpick! LOOK AT THAT HAMMER.

    The fix needs to be systemically done at the level of the ranged units, not the Hammerers.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 1,402
    arthadaw said:

    What if we simply gave them "deflect shoot" like the Swordmaster of Hoeth ? The Hammerer are supposed to be some of the best warrior of the Dawi, just like the SM of Hoeth are for the elf ?

    The skills required for a two-handed hammer and a fine elven blade are slightly different... One is a finesse weapon, the other requires a fighting style that half resembles brawling.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,854
    Hammerers need a variant with Shields but I think it would serve Hammerers better if all lord level characters would get abilities that buff only Hammerers and only if they are close enough.
    With the exception of Thorgrim of course, since he already does something like that, though it is army-wide.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,923
    Cortes31 said:

    Hammerers need a variant with Shields but I think it would serve Hammerers better if all lord level characters would get abilities that buff only Hammerers and only if they are close enough.
    With the exception of Thorgrim of course, since he already does something like that, though it is army-wide.

    They don't need a shielded variant, that's what Ironbreakers are for.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945
    A hammerer unit can barely get a swordmaster unit to half health. Garbage unit.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,694
    Itharus said:

    Hammerers are a lot better now.

    Still vulnerable to ranged fire, but that's because ranged fire is widely OP by virtue of being way too accurate and having too much AP.

    They are worse. What realm are you at? From the GS PoV i guess.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,694
    Hammerers are already the kingsguard with runic hammers. You dont get higher than that so there's no point in making Gatekeepers a unit. Thry are just their champ.

    Means a Gatekeeper could be a great weapon hero instead since you cant edit the loadout of the current Thane.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,721

    Itharus said:

    Hammerers are a lot better now.

    Still vulnerable to ranged fire, but that's because ranged fire is widely OP by virtue of being way too accurate and having too much AP.

    They are worse. What realm are you at? From the GS PoV i guess.
    Didn't they get the ability to hit more targets per swing or something?

    Either way, they aren't great compared to the alternatives, in part due to some design compromises CA made with regards to armor.

    I guess they could get some sort of anti missile bonus to represent their thick armor? But that's effectively giving them a shield...

    I'm not sure how likely CA is to nerf missiles.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945

    Hammerers are already the kingsguard with runic hammers. You dont get higher than that so there's no point in making Gatekeepers a unit. Thry are just their champ.

    Means a Gatekeeper could be a great weapon hero instead since you cant edit the loadout of the current Thane.

    Wazzock! Ofc a new hammerer unit would be cool. I will take all the new unit variations for the dawi CA can think to add.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435

    the shield only worked vs shooting in the tabletop. They were still using great weapons.

    @wingren013 are you sure about that? In 6.5th edition they came with a greatweapon and a hand weapon, presumably for melee combat.


    !! FIX THOREK !!
    1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
    2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

    !! FIX THE RUNES !!

  • WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435

    Why would you need hammerers with shields? The army already has ironbreakers which are the best anvil in the game.

    @Mogwai_Man the point isn’t to make hammerers more survivable or to be front line units, that is the ironbreaker’s role as you said (thought they could double as front line in a desperate situation). However, that’s not the point or purpose of this thread. The point is to make them better at their role as Thorgrim’s guardians, given that this latest patch gave Thorgrim the ability to grant the guardian effects to hammerers.


    !! FIX THOREK !!
    1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
    2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

    !! FIX THE RUNES !!

  • WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435

    Hammerers are already the kingsguard with runic hammers. You dont get higher than that so there's no point in making Gatekeepers a unit. Thry are just their champ.

    Means a Gatekeeper could be a great weapon hero instead since you cant edit the loadout of the current Thane.

    @mightygloin with respect, I don’t think hammerers have magic attacks (which is going to be an issue in TWW3 with all the daemons and whatnot). Also I don’t think hammerers have charge defense against all nor are they unbreakable.



    !! FIX THOREK !!
    1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
    2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

    !! FIX THE RUNES !!

  • WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435


    Wazzock! Ofc a new hammerer unit would be cool. I will take all the new unit variations for the dawi CA can think to add.

    @Tennisgolfboll thank you! Yes, new hammerer units would be cool, especially with glowing rune hammers! :smile:

    !! FIX THOREK !!
    1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
    2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

    !! FIX THE RUNES !!

  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,134
    Warfield said:

    the shield only worked vs shooting in the tabletop. They were still using great weapons.

    @wingren013 are you sure about that? In 6.5th edition they came with a greatweapon and a hand weapon, presumably for melee combat.

    I played a ton in 6th.

    So if Hammerers had a shield option (which frankly I cant remember) this would mean that at the start of combat BEFORE combat, the player could choose if he would use hand weapon and shield or greatweapon for the ENTIRE combat.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • WarfieldWarfield Registered Users Posts: 435
    @joproulx99 and @wingren013

    For the benefit of everyone visiting this thread... including CA ;)


    8th Edition:





    6.5th Edition:





    6th Edition:





    4th Edition (because hey, why not?)




    !! FIX THOREK !!
    1. Klad Brakak needs to be selectable in MP/Custom battles.
    2. Anvil Guards need to be modeled in game and also be an option in MP/Custom battles.

    !! FIX THE RUNES !!

  • wingren013wingren013 Registered Users Posts: 1,015
    edited July 23
    Warfield said:

    the shield only worked vs shooting in the tabletop. They were still using great weapons.

    @wingren013 are you sure about that? In 6.5th edition they came with a greatweapon and a hand weapon, presumably for melee combat.

    According to the 8th edition rules as I remember them (man it's been a long time) a unit cannot use a greatweapon and a shield at the same time.

    Which means it's fine to use it for the armor bonus in when they get shot at. But once they are in combat the shield is decorative.

    But even if we go with the excuse of the technical ability to use a shield, it still means they are just worse ironbreakers.
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