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The Midnight Aristocracy Invites to the Final Dance (Vampire Count rework)

Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
edited July 28 in General Discussion
Greeting Mortals.

To keep it short and simple. This is how I would like to have a rework of Vampire Counts. Some new stuff is also there. Now, something “small” first.
  • Vlad and Isabella starting position should be moved to Castle Drakenhof
  • Strigoi, Lahmia, Necrearch and Blood Dragons need each 1 playable Legendary Lord. I would go for Ushoran, Neferata, Zacharias and Red Duke
Time to go to the big parts but everything that comes now is written as if the points above are actually really happening. Do not forget that.

Building Tree

Admittedly, not such a big point either but there is something I really want to talk about. It is about the buildings that are marked in the picture below.



As you can see, all three lines start only with T4 but since even the Engineering buildings from the Dwarfs got a T3 version with their rework, I think these buildings should get one too. That would then of course also mean to rebalance their effects. Which is something I did also think about but that said, I think the one for the Wraiths should simply get moved done so it is no longer T4 and T5 but T3 and T4. It is much cheaper anyway. The other two, however, definitely need a T3 version and as such, a rebalancing of their effects which could look as follows:
  • Vampire
  • Generates Income +200/+400/+600
  • Allows recruitment of Vampire Hero
  • Public Order +2/+4/+6
  • Vampire Hero capacity +1/+2 starting at T4
  • Vampire Hero recruit rank +2/+4 starting at T4
  • Necromancer
  • Generates Income +200/+400/+600
  • Allows recruitment of Necromancer
  • Lord recruit rank +1/+2 starting at T4
  • Research Rate +4%/+8%/+12%
  • Necromancer capacity +1/+2 starting at T4
  • Necromancer recruit rank +2/+4 starting at T4
  • Local recruitment capacity +1/+2 starting at T4

This does not include recruit-able units or garrisons on purpose. It is really mostly just playing around with number, the basic effects and how they are either faction-wide or province-wide would remain the same as they are now.
With that done, this point is a bit of a stand-alone. I will mention changes to effects of buildings later on but they are not related to this. These changes to the building tree is something I want regardless of everything else in this post.

Named Characters

Manfred von Carstein
The only Legendary Lord of the Vampire Counts that needs, as of now, a more significant rework in my opinion. Kemmler, Vlad and Izzy just got touched with S&F and Ghorst is, well, Ghorst. However, I have honestly no idea when exactly was the last time, if ever, that Manfred got anything bigger then some small balance changes. To a degree I can even understand that he was not touched. I mean, his current skill tree is really big but it is not the good kind of big. Frankly, it is kind of bloated. Manfred has the generic yellow melee tree, the complete Lore of Vampires with all the extra skills and he has all spells from the Lore of Death but with no extra skills like Earthing, for example.
Now, while I agree that Manfred needs a rework of his skills, I am not so on board with combining his two lores. I mean, yeah sure, it looks kind of bloated but this is also something that makes him stand out. Unique even and from what I understand CA did actually look into the armybook to go this way. So, here is my idea: Why not leaving him both lores of magic but making them even compared to each other? To put it simple, why not make them like this?



Here you have all the spells and the related Loremaster trait at the end of it. Granted you are missing the other three skills that come with that but we are not finished yet. That said, why did I decide to keep both lores? Well, partly it has something to do with what I wrote above but another part is that I do not really think that this freedom to pick all spells from 2 lores should be taken away. Not when there are, lets say, better options. You will see on this part when we get to the faction and lord effects further down below. By the way, Lore of Death was taken from the Dark Elf Sorceress Lord from my game. Will happen a few times more.
Now, coming back to his skills, not only did Manfred lores of magic being getting a change, his melee tree did too. Admittedly though, it got also shortened. A lot. It is pretty much a copy-paste of the Necrearch line except for the very last skill.



Okay, here is the thing. This was done under the assumption that Vlad and Isabella have been moved to Castle Drakenhof but Manfred has not been moved. That now means you would have 3 vampires starting from the very same location. Lets just say Ghorst does not exist for now. You have Vlad and Isabella who are already melee/caster hybrids. Do we really need another one? Just because it is a vampire? I do not think so. I rather much prefer if Manfred gets reworked in a way to shifts his focus on his magic, on his spells and not so much on his fighting side of things.
Now, you have seen Manfred changes to his spells and his melee tree. The next one is a complete new one for we are now reaching his personal skill tree.



Lets start from left to right, since the last 3 do not really need any explaining I hope. I mean, they have been around long enough now, right? That said, as you can see, Earthing and Magical Reserves have not been removed, they just got moved. Now, on the skills.

Travelling Scholar: This one is kind of taken from Manfreds lore where it is mentioned that he travelled to Nehekara to learn and study the dark arts. This skill would improve his speed, his campaign movement range and his chance to find items after battle.
Cursed Ones: Manfred already gives some bonuses to Grave Guard and Black Knights. Cheaper upkeep and improved recruit ranks on his faction effects to be precise. With this skill now, Grave Guards and Black Knights in his personal army would also get more Leadership and Frenzy.
Undead Cunning: Not entirely happy with the name but anyway. In the Lore Manfred is not only described as wandering around and searching for lost knowledge, he is described as being very cunning. Waiting, biding his time, acting from out of the shadows until he is finally going to make his move which is mostly backstabbing someone who is actually trying to save the world. Well, that is where this skill comes from and what better way to represent this then by going for Agent Actions? Cheapening their price and increasing their chance for his entire faction.

Now, as I already said, the other 3 skills should be widely known and thus do not require specific explanations. That said, we are still not at the end. There are two more skills I have left to show you and they should make pretty clear how Ghorst will be handled in this work.



As you can see, they are related to another and the first one is pretty much a combination of Earthing and Magical Reserves, except it adds much less to your reserves but this works only anyway when Ghorst is in Manfred army. The second one does also only work when Manfred is in Ghorsts army and gives Manfred a massive discount on Raise Dead.

And the cat is out of the bag. Yes, Ghorst is a Legendary Hero in this work and only when Manfred is your faction leader. Now, the thing is I do not believe in it.
Okay, here is the deal. I do not believe that CA is ever going to remove Ghorst or Isabella from being Legendary Lords in this game. Not happening, not at all. Especially not both of them and even if they ever do only one, I am afraid that it will be Isabella getting the kick. I am saying “afraid” because if it comes down to it I would much rather prefer they go after Ghorst.
Anyway, this concludes all of Manfreds skill and now you can see them all at proper place.



In case that anyone is wondering, the reason all the skills had the white place was becausse with my Dwarf work from last time, I took them from youtube streams. This time they are all from my game. There is also some work to be done with his Faction Effects and Lord Effects but we will get to them in due time.


Ghorst
There is actually not even that much to say anymore. Ghorst would be turned into a Legendary Hero for Manfred and in terms of stats and skills would be you plain old Necromancer hero. Well, almost. I have taken a quick look over his unique skills and items and he keeps them all. They are mostly about buffing his stats anyway. That said, I would make a change to his skill that increases Research Rate. It would now be a skill with three points and every point would increase Research Rate by 10%. He would also get a new skill so that any army he is in gets the +20% Replenishment Rate. He would also keep his Lord Effects as his personal trait but otherwise really becoming a normal Necromancer.

Faction Effects & Lord Effects

I do remember that I said that Vlad, Isabella and Kemmler were fine and would not need to be touched and that remains true. The thing is, however, due to how certain things coming further down below are working, there needs to be a little change on their effects you can see on their faction selection screen. Now, for this one I am going to keep it a bit simple and show you a little Excel-Sheet here because I want do to a little side-by-side comparison here.
Well then, lets start with Vlad:

As you can see, Vlad did not get many changes except for one thing but Vlad is the only one out of the three Von Carsteins to the mortal levies. So, why should I wait for a bloodline lord? The change to Undying Love was needed however. With both related characters being Lord you would have to keep them extremely close to each other for this to work. Now you still have to keep them relatively close but they do not need to appear in the same battle any more.
As far as the “Von Carstein Bloodline Mechanic” goes, well that is something we will get back to in due time.


Next on is Isabella:

She pretty much got changed in the same way Vlad got changed, except she still has the special building to further empathize on the vampire hero but you can see another Faction Effect and Lord Effect on her. The Faction Effect has something to do with how you would get Bloodline Lords. The Lord Effect is actually something Manfred starts with right now, though it is not shown in the faction selection screen. Like some other things in his case.


Speaking of which:

Manfred is the one who got the most changes out of all of the three. He would no longer give a campaign movement bonus since Vlad does this too and since they both would now start from Castel Drakenhof, I decided one time was enough and Vlad could keep it. You see what Manfred got in exchange. The rest of his faction effects are changed the same way the effects of Isabella did, so no need for further commenting on that. However, he also got a massive change to his lord effects. At least it appears so. Truth be told, the cooldown time reduction and the ability are both things Manfred already starts with anyway. The only real new part is that you now know how to recruit Ghorst. Or lets say, if you want to do a number of missions and a quest battle, how start the recruitment of Ghorst.
That said, I was not mentioning it in the picture above but basically, Manfred would also get the ability to freely choose up to 6 spells from his lores. Cherry-picking without the need to switch during battle, so to speak.

That now concludes everything for named characters.
Post edited by Cortes31 on
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  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923

    Generic Characters & Bloodkiss & Tech Tree

    Okay, first things first: I love the bloodlines mechanics. Period. Rarely has GW made a bigger mistake with WHFB, End Times not counting, then making the Vampire Counts an all “Von Carstein” party. Was not the case in 6th edition but got sadly changed in 8th edition.
    Maybe 7th edition too but I never played tabletop.
    I have always loved the various bloodlines of the Warhammer world (Strigoi!!!) and when the bloodlines mechanic came around I was excited! Finally more then just some Von Carsteins we already had more then enough of anyway. But I am also not blind against the problems that came with it and oh boy, there came a lot of them. It even made a few problems worse then they already were. I mean, poor old Master Necromancer was already barely used before but now? At least these old geezers have the cold comfort of knowing that they are not alone any more. Vampire Lord and Strigoi Ghoul King have joined them for a good old time out, only rarely taking a break when someone finds themselves in need of a second army before having enough Bloodkiss to get the first bloodline lord. Though the Strigoi Ghoul Kings position is no better. Might be even worse, considering his bloodline equivalent outshines him in literally every possible way.
    Some bloodline lords even outshine the Legendary Lords. I am thinking about Manfred and the competition he got with the Necrearch Lord in terms of endless casting.
    That said, the bloodline lords are not without problems themselves and if it is just a subpar, to be polite, model. The big question now is, how to solve this problem? And I think it is important to find a solution that does not include the removal of anything. So far, CA has yet to remove anything from the game they added, including nonsense like Teclis Parrot and I do not think it is ever going to happen. Changing things? Yeah, sure. Outright removing something? No, no chance. So, the only solution I can see as not only working but also somewhat realistic, meaning may even actually happening, is separating this big amount of lord options. But how to do the separation? Well, the answer is actually rather simple: According to bloodlines. Below you see how exactly this would work.


    Von Carstein, Necrearch, Blood Dragon
    I have put these three together, simply because it would be all the same regardless. They all get Master Necromancer and the generic Vampire Lord. Though the latter one would be changed, where necessary, to better fit in line with their bloodline counterpart in terms of stats and how the model looks.


    Lahmia
    Pretty much the same as the three above, Master Necromancer and Vampire Lord or rather Vampire Lady. Vampire Lady Lord? Anyway, for Lahmia is not only the Vampire Hero and Bloodline Lord a female but the generic lord option too, that's it.


    Strigoi
    Last but not least are coming best vampire. Now, their lord options differentiate even more compared to the others. They are still getting Master Necromancers but they only get the Strigoi Ghoul King. Strigoi lore itself justifies the removal of the Vampire Lord from their roster.


    Now, not only the generic lords would be separated to better fit the bloodline, the bloodline lords themselves would also be separated. If you play as Von Carstein, you would only the three Von Carstein Bloodline Lords. If you play as Lahmia, you would only get the three Lahmia Bloodline Lords and so on. This might of course raise the question as to what is now going to happen with this thing here?



    Well, if you are playing as a bloodline, this thing will cease to exist. Kemmler is a different issue but he comes below. So, if the current method of recruiting Bloodline Lords stops existing then how are you going to get them? Now we reach the point of Ancients Awakening and this would also tie in with a rework of the tech tree. As of now the tech tree of the Vampire Counts consists of four books but it would change that to work with the bloodlines. What I mean with this is that the tech tree would then have 5 starting points, one for each bloodline and each bloodline tech tree department would also cover certain aspects. Now a few examples on how it would look though not in every detail. Mostly about how current technologies would be moved around.

    Von Carstein – Pretty much everything “De Noirots Blasphemous Bestiary” covers already but also commandments at least. I mean, Von Carsteins are the ones trying to get an empire.
    Necrearch – They are about Zombies, low lewel skeletons but also the Corpse Cart, Mortis Engine, everything magic and Raise Dead.
    Lahmia – “The Lahmian Book of Blood” gets its pretty well done. No Blood Knights, though and of course no other unit that has been moved. Instead more for the campaign map.
    Blood Dragon – They get the high level infantry and all the cavalry except the Hex Wraiths. Also, boosts to battle-related income
    Strigoi – Liber Necronomica pretty much but also, for a lack of a better word, Guerilla Warfare.

    You would also get your bloodline lords and their effects through the tech tree now, though I would increase the overall price and you only get the bloodline lords who are of the same bloodline as you are. Not just 3/6/9 but 4/8/12 and I know that this may not seem like a big increase but you would also have to pay in bloodkiss to unlock another department of the tech tree for only the starting point that fits your bloodline would be unlocked from the beginning. I would go for a straight 10 bloodkiss in this case.

    Now, remember when I mentioned on how the generic Vampire Lord would be changed? That would be true but not only for Von Carstein, Necrearch and Blood Dragon but for all 5 bloodlines. Well, I can see various ways on how this could be done but personally, I prefer a separation in skills. What I mean with that is the normal lord would have a change in the model as far as necessary and would have the same stats the bloodline counterpart. However, not all skills would be present. Lets take the Von Carstein as example.
    Von Carstein Lord VS Ancient Von Carstein Lord (bloodline lords now simply get an “Ancient” in their name)
    Both have the same stats but only the Ancient one gets to have the special Vortex spell and the skills related to the sylvanian mortals.
    This basic principle of not getting all skills and/or only getting them later would apply to all bloodlines.

    Now, one word about the generic heroes, they should get a few skills, each of them. Wight King, Banshee, Vampire Hero and the Necromancer. All should get something.

    Heinrich Kemmler & Master Necromancer

    With all these changes to the lords and bloodline lords, what to do with Kemmler? Frankly, not very much. He would keep the current bloodlines mechanic, though with a big cost increase and the current tech tree. That said, one change I would make and that is that he has only the Master Necromancer as generic lord choice. In exchange he would have some unique buffs and bonuses and maybe even giving them some skills. Also, they would get their missing Lore of Magic, the Lore of Death and there is still the Barrow Legion he could get units from. If memory serves right, it was his army list anyway.
    That said, Master Necromancer could use some buffs anyway. Personally I would go for two skills. For one a skill that would allow them and only them to improve Raise Dead. Maybe with giving a bonus on recruit rank.
    The other skill would boost their defensive stats based on them summoning ghosts to protect them.

    Bloodline specific Mechanics & Units

    Now, I have already mentioned this one before but every bloodline would now have a specific mechanic, just for themselves. Also, every bloodline would get special units. Von Carstein already have their mortal ranged units for example and now they would get buffs with every way possible like tech tree or lord skills except Red Line skills. That goes for all special units.


    Von Carstein
    Dark Counts: Undead version of the Elector Count state troops. However, the Von Carsteins do not need to name an Elector Count or anything like that. A simple conquering of the entire province is enough. Should also make clear what unique units they would get. That said, if they get on Marienburg, I would give them a Vampire Coast unit. Maybe the zombies with Polearms.

    Necrearch
    Necrearch Laboratory: Honestly, I think Moulders Flesh Laboratory, with some small tweaks here and there, is something that could be of a very good use for the Necrearch. I am not sure about the units for them, they are the least interesting bloodline for me. I heard something about Patchwork Men and looked them up but they are an RPG creation and I am not sure if RPG is ever going to happen as source material for this trilogy. Unless it has already happened of course. Maybe just give them an undead giant?

    On that note, thanks to @SerPus who told me that the Lore of Stealth is from RPG. That said, I will keep everything I said about RPG so far, even if it comes further down below.


    Lahmia
    Shadow of Society: To put it simple, Vampire Heroes can now construct something like a Pirate Cove but in every settlement. I have compared it to a Pirate Cove because it would only have 1 building slot. Afterwards you could then choose a building and would get something different out from it. For now I have got 2 different buildings. One would give you income and a diplomatic bonus with the owner of the settlement. Another one would give vampiric corruption and increase hero recruitment ranks. But similar to a Skaven Undercity, it may happen that you will be discovered.
    As far as units go, I only have a hero this time. Looking like an Empire Captain with Guardian ability. I also heard about Neferatas Handmaidens but I am not sure if they would not work better as a special RoR.


    Blood Dragon
    Blood and Glory: I admit it was easier to find special units then coming up with a mechanic. So they would get dismounted Blood Knights and I would give them something similar to Norsca Monster Hunt but not restricted to monsters only.
    As for the units, I have no idea if dismounted Blood Knights are loreful but I like the idea of Blood Dragons going the route of smaller but more elite forces. That said, I would give them only Polearms or Halberds. Like the Depth Guard of the Vampire Coast. No Sword&Board since the Counts have the Graveguard.


    Strigoi
    Shadow of Mourkhain: To put it simple, confederation with other Vampire Count factions are not going to happen. That goes both ways, by the way and you get a diplomatic penalty with them. Instead you would get special missions and battles to enact your revenge upon these traitors and would in return get faction-wide bonuses. You would also get special technologies if you get their starting locations but only if you start as Strigoi.
    For the units and you may have guessed it already but the Strigani are making landfall. For this I have two pictures for you.





    The first one is from 6th edition armybook, the second one is from Sigmars Blood. That is the same thing that gave us Ghorst. Well, at least something he could be useful for. Anyway, that would make three units at least. Melee infantry with two handweapons, ranged infantry and ranged cavalry. That said we could easily increase that number a bit. How about we get both mortal units from the Sartosan Pirates? Also it is not exactly stated that the Strigany horse nomads are ranged unit. They could be melee cavalry too or maybe even both? Light ranged cavalry and heavy melee cavalry? We could also squeeze a halberd or polearm unit some where in there and lets not forget a hero level caster, called Petru. They could have Lore of Shadows and Lore of Beasts. Theoretically there could also be a Strigoi Lord but I am hesitant on this one. It is one thing to give the Strigany a couple of units and a hero but a lord too? Not sure if that would not be a bit too much.
    Then again, I would buy a Strigoi Campaign Pack in a heartbeat.
    Now, why am I making so many units for the Strigany? Not just because I am such a big fan or Strigoi and everything around them, what I am but also because there is one more aspect to Shadow of Mourkhain: Any unit that is closely tied to another bloodline, like Blood Knights are going to charge you DOUBLE for recruitment cost as well as upkeep cost.
    At first I was thinking about cutting these units completely but honestly, I am not that much of a Loremaster for Vampire Count armies and again, I did not want to mess with the Red line. I was thinking about Blood Knights, Mortis Engine and Black Coach for Blood Dragons, Necrearch and Lahmians respectively. Just one unit per bloodline, that would be enough I think. Also, I could not find anything for the Von Carsteins. Well, to make it clear, the Strigany would be some kind of “substitute” for some regular Vampire Count units you would get only with much more trouble. As for how to recruit the Strigany, I would go for giving them their own building chain and then giving every unit a recruitment capacity, symbolising that the numbers of the Strigany are ever growing the more of their caravans are coming to your realm.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923

    New Legendary Lords

    Now, I already said at the very beginning of all of this, that there would be 4 new Legendary Lords. Each bloodline getting a playable representative is mandatory in my opinion. Now it is time to take a closer look at these for characters, though not in every little detail. General rule here, take the bloodline lords for stats and skills and then tweak, change and buff them. Also, for the faction and lord effects, I always tried to find a negative that I think would fit.


    Neferata
    Who but the Queen herself would be suited to represent the Lahmians? The mother of all vampires herself will become playable. Now I have to say if I had to point at any character I would give her the biggest chance for DLC, despite may Strigoi favouritism. It just seems obvious that CA will bring her in at some point.
    Her starting position would obviously be the Silver Pinnacle. I mean, it is already in the game.
    For her faction and lord effects I can imagine the following:
    For her faction effechts, I would go for the Lahmia Bloodline mechanic, her personal mechanic which could be a copy-paste of the Intrigue at Court from the High Elves, diplomatic bonuses with a lot of factions and a boost to the hero capacity of Vampire Heroes.
    For her lord effects I would go for a bonus on the recruit rank of Vampire Heroes, a Wardsave for Vampire Heroes in her army and increased upkeep for Zombies and Crypt units in her army.
    Does this seem like she would overlap with Isabella a bit? Yes but honestly, I do not care. Isabella and Neferata are from two different factions and the first one is not even your granted faction leader. You may also notice that she got a personal mechanic. Well, everyone gets a personal mechanic, even if I cannot come up with something and do not think that other bloodlines are going to get more then 1 Legendary Lord anyway.


    Red Duke
    I know the Rude Duke is not exactly the first choice for some but he is in the game. That is all the justification he needs to be chosen. Simply as that.
    His starting position should be obvious I think.
    For his faction effects I would go for the Blood Dragon bloodline mechanic, his personal mechanic which would be sacrificing slaves to the Black Grail, a cost increase of spells and another cost increase for awakening the Ancient Ones, better known as bloodline lords.
    For his lord effects I would go for a bonus on recruit rank for Black Knights and Blood Knights and a bonus on Melee Attack for Grave Guard.
    Yes I know the Black Grail is not exactly a big connection to the Red Duke. I think. But again, he is in the game, that is all that matters. Also, I left out possible bretonnian units on purpose. I mean, how many Vampire Counts do need to have mortal units in their armies? We already have Von Carstein and for the Strigoi it is a must.


    Zacharias
    Honestly, you could take W'Soran or Melchior too for all I care.
    His starting position would be a new one, the Forest of Shadows. From what I understand it would be somewhere in the province Ostland. Personally I would like it to be a single settlement province but bigger then the Mootland in terms of building slots please. Actually, I think a full 8-slot settlement would be best.
    Ironically enough, I find it very easy to come up with faction and lord effects here.
    For the faction effects, he would get the Necrearch bloodline mechanic, his personal mechanic which I have no idea about, bonus on research rate and a malus on campaign movement range and having the bloodkiss cost increase for getting the bloodline lords.
    For his lord effects he would simply get a boost to his Winds of Magic power reserve and recharge rate and a bound spell to summon a zombie dragon on the battlefield.


    Ushoran
    Ah, Ushoran. The Prince of Masks, the younger brother of Neferata, the founder of the Strigoi bloodline and whatever else he is that I am currently forgetting. The only true choice for the Strigoi Empire.
    Well, his starting position should be pretty obvious but just to be sure, he would start at Morgheim in the Marshes of Madness. Now, two things. One, I know very well that this more or less where Malagor starts so I would simply put him down further south. Second, this area is big enough to fill at least one more settlement but I would not mind getting two more settlements down there.
    Now, before I get down his faction and lord effects, we need to talk about his personal mechanic first. I am going that route here this time because this is a bit bigger to explain. His personal mechanic would be called: Reconstruction of Mourkhain
    Basically you would get an UI that would show you a giant city of ruins. This giant city would then have several district that you would need to rebuild. This would be done by quests, dilemmas and maybe even a battle or two. When you have reconstructed a district you would get a faction-wide buff but also move up a level in Bar that would be placed on the top of your screen on your campaign map. Every time you have moved up a level armies would appear because a certain someone still does not want Ushoran to have his happy little place. Once all district are rebuild it is time to have a nice little chat wit Neferata. Close and personal, Claw VS Claw. Once this is done it would be Victory!

    So, I think it is time to move to Ushorans faction and lord effects and they are structured as if Ushoran would not be the only Strigoi LL. I mean, I do not see that really happening but still.
    • Faction
    • Strigoi Bloodline Mechanic
    • Personal Mechanic
    • Bonus to campaign movement range
    • Diplomatic penalty for Greenskins
    • Lord
    • Bonus on Melee Attack for Crypt Ghouls and Crypt Horrors
    • Bonus on Leadership for Strigany
    • Bonus on Ambush Success chance
    With all that out of the way, this time I am going a bit more into detail about his skills. I am also going to talk about some of the skills in general. However, on to the skill and we start with the skills that only centre around Ushoran himself.



    First of, we have After the Whaagh which is his unique replacement for Curse of Vorag. For this one I would simply go with a 10% Wardsave instead of 10% Physical Resistance.
    As far as Bestial Juggernaut is concerned, this would simply be a combination of Bestial Monstrosity (+20% HP) and Bestial Force (+20% Weapon Damage) merged into one skill.
    Ushorans Rage is pretty much a buffed up version of Infinite Hatred, not only giving him that +10 Melee Attack but also +10 on Melee Defence.
    Finally Ushoran the Survivor does the same as Ghoul King of Ushoran but better.


    So far this part of this skills. The next one is mostly about his army, however there would be more to it then it first would seem.



    Claws of Mourhkain should be pretty obvious but yes, Ushoran would get it earlier.
    Now “Ghoul Kings call” does what Grave Eater and Monstrosities of Morr do, giving -25% upkeep and recruit rank +1 for Crypt Ghouls and -25% upkeep and recruitment duration -1 for Crypt Horror units. Except of course, you do not need 2 skills any more but only one.
    Spirits of Mourkhain is something to buff Cairn Wraiths and Hex Wraiths. But I am going to keep it simple, so this skill is giving -25% upkeep and recruit rank +1 for Cairn Wraith and -25% upkeep and recruitment duration -1 for Hex Wraith units.
    The last skill here is the same in name but not in effect. Right now, The Grotesque Court gives +10% Physical Resistance to Crypt Ghouls and Crypt Horrors and +10 Leadership to them as well. Now I am going to change this because “Wights and other fell spirits serve the monarch” is straight out from the lore blurb of this skill but I do not see a buff for these “fell spirits”. So, what will change? The part with Physical Resistance? That can stay as it is but the Leadership would now also apply to Cairn Wraiths and Hex Wraiths and the Wraiths would now also get +10 Melee Attack which I think should be changed anyway.


    We are still not at the end but almost. You see, what I am now talking about would be some skills not only for Ushoran but for all Strigoi Ghoul Kings whether they are bloodline/ancient or the normal ones. Three skills, focuses on Strigany and campaign map.



    War Caravans: On the campaign map they would increase the campaign movement range and the army reinforcement range. For the Strigany they would lower the upkeep and increase the recruit ranks.
    Oldfathers Call: On the campaign map they would reduce siege turn times when your are attacking. For the Strigany they would increase Leadership and Speed.
    For Mourkhain: Nothing for the campaign map this time. Though I think this could probably fit the above mentioned Strigany lord best.
    The rumours were true! Our home awaits us! No charge my friends! To Mourkhain! To the Oldfathers! To the End of the World!
    Gives your lord the ability to temporarily increase Charge Bonus, Melee Attack and Missile Resistance for Strigany units in the army.


    And so, I end this work. It is already big enough I think.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    For Neferata/Lamhian, maybe her mechanic would be set around heroes, lets say she can summon/recruit specials hero that have a different Kill/Wound ability: Seduce/Swain

    Letting her steal Heroes from any other factions (Keeping true to the rule book)

    Lamhian Vampire Lord/Hero (Always F) would get as mount: Horse, Black Coach and Coven Throne (Which also come as a unit)
  • RoyalXJRoyalXJ Registered Users Posts: 60
    Cortes, broski, this post is rad as hell. The thought and detail you've put in here is pretty incredible.

    By and large, I agree with you on most of this. I think more Bloodlines are needed in order to make the Vampire Counts the trilogy's "main" undead faction, even if that means giving them a slightly disproportionate amount of attention. The "Deathtide", to borrow Age of Sigmar lingo, is very much the game's weakest since it is almost fully reliant on the Vampire Counts, with Arkhan and some of the VCoast providing backup once in a blue moon - ironically, the thing the endless hordes are most lacking feels like numbers, so I agree that extra VCount presence in places like The Silver Pinnacle, Morgheim/Mourkain, Mousillon, and wherever they'd put the Necrarchs would create an Old World-centric undead presence that may make the Deathtide an actual threat every so often.

    I disagree on making Ghorst a legendary hero, myself - disappointment though he may now be, I think he should remain a legendary lord, but kitted out with some kind of all-new start position. Stick him up in a corner of Norsca or something to spread some undeath up there, as well as make a meta-joke about what everyone thinks of ol' Ghorst.

    Also fully agree on fleshing out Kemmler to be more unique, but the same sentiment applies to all the VCounts bloodlines: I hope that all the bloodlines get included and all feel as unique from the base VCounts as Drycha does from the Wood Elves, if not a touch more.
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,067
    Not sure you need to block off access to the other Bloodline lords particularly, removing any kind of choice is kinda boring and doesn't really make sense, Vampires arent overly antagonist to each other to the point where they wont work with other bloodlines.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
    RoyalXJ said:

    Cortes, broski, this post is rad as hell. The thought and detail you've put in here is pretty incredible.

    Thank you very much, it was a lot of work. Though it took me less time then I thought it would.
    RoyalXJ said:


    I disagree on making Ghorst a legendary hero, myself - disappointment though he may now be, I think he should remain a legendary lord, but kitted out with some kind of all-new start position. Stick him up in a corner of Norsca or something to spread some undeath up there, as well as make a meta-joke about what everyone thinks of ol' Ghorst.

    Also fully agree on fleshing out Kemmler to be more unique, but the same sentiment applies to all the VCounts bloodlines: I hope that all the bloodlines get included and all feel as unique from the base VCounts as Drycha does from the Wood Elves, if not a touch more.

    Moving Ghorst is certainly an option too. It is just that he, well, seems so pointless. I mean, did CA really think a second Necromancer LL was a good idea? I mean, I fully believe that CA planned so far ahead that they fully knew they would use Manfred and Kemmler as core, Ghorst for DLC and Vlad and Isabella for FLC. So, if they already knew they would use all these characters the way they did, did really no one stand up and say, "maybe we should change something?"

    I just checked this out and this is what 8th edition armybook says:


    Manfred, Kemmler and Vlad are all legit lord choices. So, why not starting with Vlad and Kemmler and then using Manfred for the DLC? Make Isabella the normal FLC and done.
    No need to bring an character through Make War Not Love.

    I do not even mind Ghorst being a nobody in lore but still.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,923
    Rob18446 said:

    Not sure you need to block off access to the other Bloodline lords particularly, removing any kind of choice is kinda boring and doesn't really make sense, Vampires arent overly antagonist to each other to the point where they wont work with other bloodlines.

    Probably not but I prefer this solution over another round of normal lords becoming pointless once the bloodkiss are rolling in and bloodline lords rolling out.

    That said, Kemmler could still get all of them. Maybe limiting his bloodline lords to 3 too would be an idea or making every new bloodline lord, regardless if same bloodline or not, more expensive could be an idea.
    While keeping the cost increase I mentioned.
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,374
    Isabella should be a LH for Vlad, so that they can be in the same army.

    This will be unpopular, because some people will see it as taking away content.
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