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Games Workshop IS Coming for the Modders, at Least Their Patreon Support

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  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,668
    Storeslem said:

    never liked Radious or SFo anyway. if you got time make your own overhaul, you will enjoy it much more

    Sure but I for one don't have the time and I really enjoy SFO.

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  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,129
    uhm... Venris of SFO just quoted CA saying nothing changed. So maybe it's just Radious making up the drama.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,937
    edited August 4
    Xenos7777 said:

    The modders are only the beginning, just wait until the lore channels start getting shut down, Arch is the only one with the balls to stand upto them.

    If it meant that guy could no longer make money out of reading out Warhammer wiki articles and had to earn a living legitimately instead, it'd be totally worth it.
    why do you care how other people make money, as long as they don't hurt anyone?
    Why do you care that I don't like someone on YT? Is this verboten now? Ironic thing to say for someone who pretends to be all for "free speech" and all those other catchphrases.
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 4,967
    edited August 4
    Xenos7777 said:

    uhm... Venris of SFO just quoted CA saying nothing changed. So maybe it's just Radious making up the drama.

    Perhaps, I don't follow him myself, but if so that's definitely stirring the pot for no reason.

    Also PSA to everyone: quit derailing this thread talking about Arch and other "controversial" YouTubers, that's not the freaking subject.
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    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

    Bring naval battles to Warhammer CA!

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,618
    edited August 4

    Xenos7777 said:

    The modders are only the beginning, just wait until the lore channels start getting shut down, Arch is the only one with the balls to stand upto them.

    If it meant that guy could no longer make money out of reading out Warhammer wiki articles and had to earn a living legitimately instead, it'd be totally worth it.
    why do you care how other people make money, as long as they don't hurt anyone?
    Why do you care that I don't like someone on YT? Is this verboten now? Ironic thing to say for someone who pretends to be all for "free speech" and all those other catchphrases.
    Because Arch does far more then just read lore from the wiki.

    The siege of vraks/ badab war series are good content and that deserves acknowledgement aswell as his voicing of unpopular opinions.


    So far, he was the only one that even dared to think how bad it could become.
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    Surprised at how much nonchalance is shown to this, to me this is a clear attack on modding and modders that enhance the game. Ok, so some of you don't like Radius mods (I've never tried his) but some of the very best out there (eg Cataph, DrunkFlamingo, ChaosRobie) have Patreon accounts for supporters.

    Critically, none of these charge for the mods themselves, they're all publicly released.

    Again, it's a slippery slope that threatens modders, content creators and anyone doing fan art.

    It's not the first time GW treats its own fambase and most ardent supporters with utter contempt but if we lose the interest of the best modders then it's (another) bad sign for TWW3 and its longevity.
  • CarognaCarogna Registered Users Posts: 349
    I'm honestly shocked at seeing so much vitriol aimed at modders from this forum.

    I'm happy to send a couple of bucks to someone who has spent hours and hours making something that improves my enjoyment of the game.

    It's not like GW has never profited from someone else's IP, ask Michael Moorcock.

    I don't really care about Radius specifically but why are we even having this conversation after GW demonstrated clearly how toxic they are to their fanbase? Sounds a bit like corporate bootlicking..
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  • AbmongAbmong Registered Users Posts: 3,171
    Some people may benefit from watching this...



    So GW 40K and WHFB will become public domain in about 55 years, some of you may live to see that day, I probably won't... For now GW has sole rights to their IP, and since if you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights, GW can and should crackdown on any and all infringements.

    If you don't like the law, take it up with law makers. FYI that's not GW.
    Something tells me this comment will get a Disagree
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,715


    Arch did it to himself, no company would want to associate with him whether he was joking or not.

    Content creators don't even want to work with him.

    That's not strictly true, I know he has done some stuff with Carl Benjamin, who hovers on the verge of mainstream celebrity/notoriety in the UK.

    And I remember that "I wouldn't even r*pe her" comment about Morathi from the darling of many of this forum and CA affiliate Legend, so I'm not too interested in hearing people get up on their pedestal regarding anyone else.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 4,967
    edited August 4
    Abmong said:

    Some people may benefit from watching this...



    So GW 40K and WHFB will become public domain in about 55 years, some of you may live to see that day, I probably won't... For now GW has sole rights to their IP, and since if you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights, GW can and should crackdown on any and all infringements.

    If you don't like the law, take it up with law makers. FYI that's not GW.

    I just want to point out here that anything currently owned by a large corporation never winds up as public domain to to legal meddling and lobbying from said corporations, otherwise things like Micky Mouse would have been public domain back in the 70s and 2003 respectively, supposedly in 2024 now, but we know that will never happen.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed, Shadow King
    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

    Bring naval battles to Warhammer CA!

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,151

    Xenos7777 said:

    The modders are only the beginning, just wait until the lore channels start getting shut down, Arch is the only one with the balls to stand upto them.

    If it meant that guy could no longer make money out of reading out Warhammer wiki articles and had to earn a living legitimately instead, it'd be totally worth it.
    why do you care how other people make money, as long as they don't hurt anyone?
    Why do you care that I don't like someone on YT? Is this verboten now? Ironic thing to say for someone who pretends to be all for "free speech" and all those other catchphrases.
    It’s not about free speech. It’s about being confused why you’re getting upset about someone making money for themselves and others who aren’t causing harm. It’s just of interest why someone would get so worked up about it.
  • HowTheStarsBurnHowTheStarsBurn Registered Users Posts: 533
    Peopel have such bad takes about IP. IP helps the rich, that's it.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,715

    Peopel have such bad takes about IP. IP helps the rich, that's it.

    I don't think anyone who has ever created anything would agree with you.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 875
    Being on the right side of the law doesn't mean **** on a moral scale. One can still act according to the laws of the local country but still be a **** a-hole. GW (or at least it's directors) are a-holes, and i'll keep refering to them as such.


    I couldn't care less about Radious: for me that's just a name, not dissimilar to Venris, Cataph, Crynsos, Mixu, Flamboyand Schemer, and all people that contributed to the modding community. I don't care which one gets to meet GW's axe, WHAT I CARE is that someone met it (which is what makes me angry), and that GW was the one wielding it (the object of my anger).
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    Abmong said:

    Some people may benefit from watching this...



    So GW 40K and WHFB will become public domain in about 55 years, some of you may live to see that day, I probably won't... For now GW has sole rights to their IP, and since if you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights, GW can and should crackdown on any and all infringements.

    If you don't like the law, take it up with law makers. FYI that's not GW.

    You're mixing up arguments here.

    No-one is questioning the legal right of GW to do it.

    We are questioning whether it's a good and justified thing for them to do to their fanbase. Arguably (although pretty clear cut to me), cracking down on things that immerse their customer base into their hobby is ultimately self-destructive and serves no benefit to anyone. Tell me what GW gain by cracking down on TWW modding? How does it even make them more money? What does anyone gain from it?

    The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers themselves.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 875
    Unrelated: copyright laws sucks anyway.
  • AbmongAbmong Registered Users Posts: 3,171
    Wyvax said:


    I just want to point out here that anything currently owned by a large corporation never winds up as public domain to to legal meddling and lobbying from said corporations, otherwise things like Micky Mouse would have been public domain back in the 70s and 2003 respectively, supposedly in 2024 now, but we know that will never happen.

    We'll have to wait and see in 2024, but the 2024 date is correct unless the law changes between now and then. The current law is 95 years after the date of first publication. Mickey was first published in 1928, but we're talking only the original likeness, later versions will need to hit their 95 years mark before those become public.
    Something tells me this comment will get a Disagree
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,151
    Arsenic said:


    Arch did it to himself, no company would want to associate with him whether he was joking or not.

    Content creators don't even want to work with him.

    That's not strictly true, I know he has done some stuff with Carl Benjamin, who hovers on the verge of mainstream celebrity/notoriety in the UK.

    And I remember that "I wouldn't even r*pe her" comment about Morathi from the darling of many of this forum and CA affiliate Legend, so I'm not too interested in hearing people get up on their pedestal regarding anyone else.
    The difference being he got black listed and then created a professional channel for over a year and then returned to CA’s good graces.

    Arch on the other hand gets accused of working with a **** who openly talks about it. When Sotek openly accused him of it it’s funny he didn’t take legal action against him.

    Arch’s a grade A bottom feeder and I’d rather not know what he’s involved in. Legend made a mistake years ago, paid for it and is now a solid performer.
  • PTreePTree Registered Users Posts: 809
    edited August 4
    Wyvax said:

    Abmong said:

    Some people may benefit from watching this...



    So GW 40K and WHFB will become public domain in about 55 years, some of you may live to see that day, I probably won't... For now GW has sole rights to their IP, and since if you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights, GW can and should crackdown on any and all infringements.

    If you don't like the law, take it up with law makers. FYI that's not GW.

    I just want to point out here that anything currently owned by a large corporation never winds up as public domain to to legal meddling and lobbying from said corporations, otherwise things like Micky Mouse would have been public domain back in the 70s and 2003 respectively, supposedly in 2024 now, but we know that will never happen.
    Is it just me, or does this Copyright lawyer look exactly like Queen Anne in the video? I mean, he might have Royal blood in them veins.

    On another note, I'm also shocked at the vitriol shown by community members towards modders.

    Listen up, we're not just going through a pandemic, we're going through the 4th industrial revolution. That means jobs are disappearing fast, and new ones are slow to appear and hard to learn. We should be supporting anyone who gets off their ass and makes quality content, and if they can make some money doing so, without damaging GW or CA, then those two giant companies should support that too.

    We need to drop this scarcity mentality. Yes GW needs to protect their IP. Yes, they perhaps should go after people copying their work, mini's etc... but how in gods name do YouTubers or modders effect their bottom line? They don't, if anything they've brought 30-year lurkers from the hobby like me back into it and enhance the enjoyment and interest in the hobby.

    I normally stick up for GW with regards to prices, same with CA, but this latest move is disappointing to say the least. It might be that certain people are stirring the pot of fear and this is going nowhere, but I wouldn't bet on it, because lawyers and Corps don't care and will aggressively pursue their interests. Including making an issue where non exist so they can justify their massive salaries from companies like GW.

    I only use a handful of mods myself. Minor graphic improvements. But there is no doubt the success of the game is extended thanks to Modders. They should be supported by CA and GW, who should remember that times are tough and creative, hard work should be supported. Forum members should too.

    PS. I don't go in for all the GW hate that goes around the hobby, but in this case, it's worth remembering that GW was created by four fans of DnD and Tolkien, using other people's IP and playing with it. How is that different to Modders now?



  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,312
    Moved to Off Topic as it is a business discussion now.
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  • AbmongAbmong Registered Users Posts: 3,171



    You're mixing up arguments here.

    No-one is questioning the legal right of GW to do it.

    We are questioning whether it's a good and justified thing for them to do to their fanbase. Arguably (although pretty clear cut to me), cracking down on things that immerse their customer base into their hobby is ultimately self-destructive and serves no benefit to anyone. Tell me what GW gain by cracking down on TWW modding? How does it even make them more money? What does anyone gain from it?

    The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers themselves.

    They're not separate arguments. If GW doesn't crackdown on monetization of fan-content that immitates their IP GW risk's losing their IP rights. Them not cracking down could be used as president against them by someone else later.
    Say an X game company could infringe on GW's IP and make a WH game without having a license, and when GW goes to take action agaist them, X company can show the courts GW didn't stop other people from using immitating the IP without a license and point to those monetized fan games and fan mod projects. The courts would rule in favour of said X game company because GW previously didn't care enough to protect their IP. That's how IP rights are lost. They're not doing it to be vindictive, they have to do it to protect their IP exclusivity.
    Something tells me this comment will get a Disagree
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,151
    Abmong said:



    You're mixing up arguments here.

    No-one is questioning the legal right of GW to do it.

    We are questioning whether it's a good and justified thing for them to do to their fanbase. Arguably (although pretty clear cut to me), cracking down on things that immerse their customer base into their hobby is ultimately self-destructive and serves no benefit to anyone. Tell me what GW gain by cracking down on TWW modding? How does it even make them more money? What does anyone gain from it?

    The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers themselves.

    They're not separate arguments. If GW doesn't crackdown on monetization of fan-content that immitates their IP GW risk's losing their IP rights. Them not cracking down could be used as president against them by someone else later.
    Say an X game company could infringe on GW's IP and make a WH game without having a license, and when GW goes to take action agaist them, X company can show the courts GW didn't stop other people from using immitating the IP without a license and point to those monetized fan games and fan mod projects. The courts would rule in favour of said X game company because GW previously didn't care enough to protect their IP. That's how IP rights are lost. They're not doing it to be vindictive, they have to do it to protect their IP exclusivity.
    I don’t think they will. Licences can be constantly renewed and changed. I imagine Space Marines will look a lot different in 95 years and while people will be able to play 95 year old WH videos/content that won’t mean they can create original works based on WH.

    They don’t need to act like arses, they won’t lose anything.
  • AbmongAbmong Registered Users Posts: 3,171

    Abmong said:



    You're mixing up arguments here.

    No-one is questioning the legal right of GW to do it.

    We are questioning whether it's a good and justified thing for them to do to their fanbase. Arguably (although pretty clear cut to me), cracking down on things that immerse their customer base into their hobby is ultimately self-destructive and serves no benefit to anyone. Tell me what GW gain by cracking down on TWW modding? How does it even make them more money? What does anyone gain from it?

    The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers themselves.

    They're not separate arguments. If GW doesn't crackdown on monetization of fan-content that immitates their IP GW risk's losing their IP rights. Them not cracking down could be used as president against them by someone else later.
    Say an X game company could infringe on GW's IP and make a WH game without having a license, and when GW goes to take action agaist them, X company can show the courts GW didn't stop other people from using immitating the IP without a license and point to those monetized fan games and fan mod projects. The courts would rule in favour of said X game company because GW previously didn't care enough to protect their IP. That's how IP rights are lost. They're not doing it to be vindictive, they have to do it to protect their IP exclusivity.
    I don’t think they will. Licences can be constantly renewed and changed. I imagine Space Marines will look a lot different in 95 years and while people will be able to play 95 year old WH videos/content that won’t mean they can create original works based on WH.

    They don’t need to act like arses, they won’t lose anything.
    I don't get what you're trying to say here. Are you saying the courts won't side with the infringers? Or are you saying GW wouldn't lose anything? or Both? In the eyes of the law fans are the same as none fans so they have to apply the rules to everyone. The alternative is there's no IP exclusivity and everyone can just copy anything and everything off anyone. Any big Hollywood studio can make Warhammer films without asking GW's permission and make millions without giving GW a penny. There's no fan exception clause in law. I don't think GW are being arses about it at all, on the contrary they're leaving loop holes.
    Something tells me this comment will get a Disagree
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 7,448

    I don't care about overhaul mods, but this does make me slightly concerned about how far it will go. What if it gets to the point that GW starts taking down mods they don't like (especially since apparently they didn't want a mod workshop to start with)? What's to stop them from taking down mods like OVN, which introduces races that GW don't want in game?

    That would be horrendous and if they went down that road we should all come together as a community and attempt to create the worlds larget **** storm directed at Gw.

    Luckily the sky isnt falling just yet


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  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,151
    Abmong said:

    Abmong said:



    You're mixing up arguments here.

    No-one is questioning the legal right of GW to do it.

    We are questioning whether it's a good and justified thing for them to do to their fanbase. Arguably (although pretty clear cut to me), cracking down on things that immerse their customer base into their hobby is ultimately self-destructive and serves no benefit to anyone. Tell me what GW gain by cracking down on TWW modding? How does it even make them more money? What does anyone gain from it?

    The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers themselves.

    They're not separate arguments. If GW doesn't crackdown on monetization of fan-content that immitates their IP GW risk's losing their IP rights. Them not cracking down could be used as president against them by someone else later.
    Say an X game company could infringe on GW's IP and make a WH game without having a license, and when GW goes to take action agaist them, X company can show the courts GW didn't stop other people from using immitating the IP without a license and point to those monetized fan games and fan mod projects. The courts would rule in favour of said X game company because GW previously didn't care enough to protect their IP. That's how IP rights are lost. They're not doing it to be vindictive, they have to do it to protect their IP exclusivity.
    I don’t think they will. Licences can be constantly renewed and changed. I imagine Space Marines will look a lot different in 95 years and while people will be able to play 95 year old WH videos/content that won’t mean they can create original works based on WH.

    They don’t need to act like arses, they won’t lose anything.
    I don't get what you're trying to say here. Are you saying the courts won't side with the infringers? Or are you saying GW wouldn't lose anything? or Both? In the eyes of the law fans are the same as none fans so they have to apply the rules to everyone. The alternative is there's no IP exclusivity and everyone can just copy anything and everything off anyone. Any big Hollywood studio can make Warhammer films without asking GW's permission and make millions without giving GW a penny. There's no fan exception clause in law. I don't think GW are being arses about it at all, on the contrary they're leaving loop holes.
    I’m saying CA have total control over their IP/games and so do GW. CA have never done this and GW have, it’s a choice - it’s honestly that simple.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,638
    zeekjw said:

    Reeks said:

    So they just don´t want the modders making cash of their ip?

    Big deal

    If the modders really love what they do they will keep at it making moolah or not

    This right here.

    Also, people fail to realize that they can still give modders money via PayPal or patreon.

    The only think that changed is the links to PayPal and patreon being moved off the workshop page.
    Having to actively search for the patreon instead of having it on the mod page is an issue that will stop a lot of people from donating, it may sound stupid but thats how humans work.
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  • RadiousRadious Senior Member Czech RepublicRegistered Users Posts: 498
    edited August 5
    No mods will be removed if they wont have any donation/patreon links attached ingame or workshop pages.

    Same as no Patreon accounts will be closed if they wont have any goals/rewards/tiers related to WH IP.

    That will go to all WH1, WH2 and obviously WH3 mods. If these rules wont be followed, only then mods will be removed and creators can have further problems.

    None of this means you cant donate, nobody can stop you from this, just creators cant throw at you links.

    This of course can change in the future and GW can start with something worse.

    Its not good thing at all, mods always been free, but when you have massive projects on which multiple people spend thousands hours of work there is absolutely nothing wrong to ask for optional donations when everything you create is free for everyone anyway
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,937
    edited August 5
    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    The modders are only the beginning, just wait until the lore channels start getting shut down, Arch is the only one with the balls to stand upto them.

    If it meant that guy could no longer make money out of reading out Warhammer wiki articles and had to earn a living legitimately instead, it'd be totally worth it.
    why do you care how other people make money, as long as they don't hurt anyone?
    Why do you care that I don't like someone on YT? Is this verboten now? Ironic thing to say for someone who pretends to be all for "free speech" and all those other catchphrases.
    Because Arch does far more then just read lore from the wiki.

    The siege of vraks/ badab war series are good content and that deserves acknowledgement aswell as his voicing of unpopular opinions.


    So far, he was the only one that even dared to think how bad it could become.
    O yeah, he does more than that, like fueling reactionary attitudes and making common cause with literal nazis to review bomb TW over female generals.

    If that guy was swallowed by the earth right now that couldn't be soon enough.

    Don't EVER attempt to make me have pity on that guy.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216
    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    The modders are only the beginning, just wait until the lore channels start getting shut down, Arch is the only one with the balls to stand upto them.

    If it meant that guy could no longer make money out of reading out Warhammer wiki articles and had to earn a living legitimately instead, it'd be totally worth it.
    why do you care how other people make money, as long as they don't hurt anyone?
    Why do you care that I don't like someone on YT? Is this verboten now? Ironic thing to say for someone who pretends to be all for "free speech" and all those other catchphrases.
    Because Arch does far more then just read lore from the wiki.

    The siege of vraks/ badab war series are good content and that deserves acknowledgement aswell as his voicing of unpopular opinions.


    So far, he was the only one that even dared to think how bad it could become.
    He lost all credibility over the whole female general "controversy" back in Rome 2 Total War. He's not the person to go for information because being contrarian for the sake of it isn't a good stance to have on legal policy.
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