Monthly bret wish list for an rework ( multiplayer )

saweendra#3399

prophetess Unicorn
Damsel pegasus
Henri to the main faction
Better animtions to Repanse
Perfect vigor and price increase to Louen , Henri, Green knight
grail vow as purchasable ability

Rework grail tier Knights to 24 models
rework Peg knights 36 models and anit infantry so they are different



Oh obviously Give us DLC pretty please

saweendra#3399

rework paladin to be more in Line with HE noble and remove gurdian

Lotus_Moon#2452

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Bastilean#7242

Why do you think lower model count grail knights makes sense? They have always had one wound.

saweendra#3399

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

i mean in game 3 fay is gonna get nerfed with no more stacking resistance so she being able to in to melee will be lot harder

did include paladin when i said rework to be more like noble that included price with that and removal of guardian i don't see how they are an issue .

saweendra#3399

Bastilean said:

Why do you think lower model count grail knights makes sense? They have always had one wound.

i mean yes in TT they were like that and they were meh but that was 6 th edition army book where concept of monstrous cav was still rather new

right now Grail knights are nothing but a straight upgrade to kinghts of the realm nothing that truly makes you feel they are true mounted saints .
these guys solo way worst things than demigryph and such should just be as elite in terms of the model count.

that will make them more interesting and unique

saweendra#3399

Green0 said:

Bastilean said:

Why do you think lower model count grail knights makes sense? They have always had one wound.

Grail Knights are a perfect unit, not sure why people wanna touch them, pretty much they are a top tier elite cav and in a world where cavalry is allowed to be good, they would be played a ton. High skill unit as well since it generally does trash with bad micro and very well when micro'd properly.

i am not saying there a bad unit lol . i am saying making them more unique so they feel truly like the battle saints they should be .

yst#1879

Pegs r fine as is, just need -$50 so they r on par on
-realms to peg
-grails to royal peg
conversion scaling

As u can see both conversion loses -13 charge
Theres bit of minor inconsistencies between the 2 but comes down to the 2 more important ones

+2 att and -$50 would fix them

Grail arent monstar cav

45 on them works far better than 24. Going that path is complete destruction of this unit

U already have smaller size and thats royal peg.

saweendra#3399

yst said:

Pegs r fine as is, just need -$50 so they r on par on
-realms to peg
-grails to royal peg
conversion scaling

As u can see both conversion loses -13 charge
Theres bit of minor inconsistencies between the 2 but comes down to the 2 more important ones

+2 att and -$50 would fix them

Grail arent monstar cav

45 on them works far better than 24. Going that path is complete destruction of this unit

U already have smaller size and thats royal peg.

i agree they are pretty solid units

but i want them to have distinct roles rather that straight conversions . will it destroy the unit prolly in short term but we can figure out the balancing from there.

saweendra#3399

Green0 said:

saweendra said:

Green0 said:

Bastilean said:

Why do you think lower model count grail knights makes sense? They have always had one wound.

Grail Knights are a perfect unit, not sure why people wanna touch them, pretty much they are a top tier elite cav and in a world where cavalry is allowed to be good, they would be played a ton. High skill unit as well since it generally does trash with bad micro and very well when micro'd properly.

i am not saying there a bad unit lol . i am saying making them more unique so they feel truly like the battle saints they should be .

not everything needs to feel unique. For me, GK have a very interesting design already and I don't want them turned into a unit to cater to noobs with AP AL or whatever people want. They are a high skill unit, once cav is fixed they will be good too.

when the bloody hell i said AP AL i said literally rework them to be 24 models just that , how is making that noob friendly?

Audacimous

Bret's cav roster is really gonna feel underwhelming in game 3 with Kislev having a nice selection of light, medium, heavy and monsterous cav and Emp probably getting a knightly orders and Middenland DLC (knight's panther , white wolves, and knights of morr, etc). Bret's cav roster is currently carried by the overperforming QK with an abundance of generic non-AP shock cav that can pretty much fulfill the same role. Sure different tier separate them but at the end of the day the meta will just shift such that only the most cost effective option for the specific MU is chosen. If CA decide not to reduce grail's model count in TWW3, at least increase their HP so we don't just see SL every god damn game.

Bastilean#7242

Bret cav have AL. They are fine and will be fine. These quibbles are good problems to have.

Questing Knights are extremely good, but they aren't carrying anything.

CA could do some kind of Grail RoR that has a smaller unit count like the Swords of Chaos, but it's not something they should do with the regular grail cav.

Maybe increase the parry chance to 35%.

I think it's far more likely for CA to do more for the heroes in terms of items and abilities. Many WH1 factions hero items and abilities are looking under whelming.

another505

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Paladins are fine if Fay is nerfed

you rarely see them with louen and alberic, it is a sign that the problem is on fay.

Loupi#8512

-Paladins are too cheap, should either get simple cost increase or rework to be a more elite "grail" type hero.
-Fay mortis damage needs to go down, and give her a mixed lore of magic
-Grail knight/guardians should stay as 45 model cav, this is the best option for the balance of the faction.
-add Henri to main faction
-mounted yeoman and yeoman archers should be better in melee
-perfect vigor + magic attacks for louen (not on Beaquis)

DLC would be nice (Lost sons of brettonia, Knights of Morr/Black Guard of Morr and Herrimaults would be best unit choices) but thats for game 3 (maybe vs Mousillon)

Disposable Hero

Loupi_ said:

-Paladins are too cheap, should either get simple cost increase or rework to be a more elite "grail" type hero.
-Fay mortis damage needs to go down, and give her a mixed lore of magic
-Grail knight/guardians should stay as 45 model cav, this is the best option for the balance of the faction.
-add Henri to main faction
-mounted yeoman and yeoman archers should be better in melee
-perfect vigor + magic attacks for louen (not on Beaquis)

DLC would be nice (Lost sons of brettonia, Knights of Morr/Black Guard of Morr and Herrimaults would be best unit choices) but thats for game 3 (maybe vs Mousillon)

I would also like to see bret get a generic ballista, it would add options in some mu.

Lotus_Moon#2452

another505 said:

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Paladins are fine if Fay is nerfed

you rarely see them with louen and alberic, it is a sign that the problem is on fay.

nah they not they need a nerf regardless of fey

The_real_FAUST#6885

Varied paladins - 3-5 versions

Rework lance formation

Stakes for peasant archers

Mounted yeomen slight buff

Mounted yeomen archers slight buff

Relique rework to only work on non Knight units

Generic lord rework-more versions

Generic caster Lord rework - items and abilities and mounts

QK rebalance

Grail guardian and grail Knight slight rework not in terms of numbers however

Lessen Mortis

Adjust louens auras

Blessed treb rework ( particularly with demons on the horizon)

Vows for knights of the realm to make differing versions of them

RawSugar#1229

the only thing i'd change would be nerfing fey mortis, and either reducing grail reliquae cost to 250 or adding a +5 MA/MD aura (last one would need testing)

reshuffling stuff i'd consider buffing Grail knights and guardians to the level of QK while giving them specific roles. (giving GK 50% AP and guardians -5 MA & WS but +20 AI).

But really the only needed change is a fey mortis nerf and , depending how the cavalry debacle turns out, possibly a buff somewhere else in the roster

mightygloin#2446

another505 said:

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Paladins are fine if Fay is nerfed

you rarely see them with louen and alberic, it is a sign that the problem is on fay.

That is also why Gotrek was nerfed. But Palas are still a bit cheap. Could gain some LD with price nerf.

another505

mightygloin said:

another505 said:

Lotus_Moon said:

I shall just add the most important missing parts

nerf fey mortise aura
nerf paladins cost

Paladins are fine if Fay is nerfed

you rarely see them with louen and alberic, it is a sign that the problem is on fay.

That is also why Gotrek was nerfed. But Palas are still a bit cheap. Could gain some LD with price nerf.

Yaa, but i think we would both agree that the problem was more on fay again too which makes it a mistake to nerf gotrek. Now, gotrek and felix are much rarer even in bret

I think a lot of melee character could be buff instead, rather than nerfing the few good ones.
Emp captain, thane, noble, master, scar vet on cold one

another505

Loupi_ said:

-Paladins are too cheap, should either get simple cost increase or rework to be a more elite "grail" type hero.
-Fay mortis damage needs to go down, and give her a mixed lore of magic
-Grail knight/guardians should stay as 45 model cav, this is the best option for the balance of the faction.
-add Henri to main faction
-mounted yeoman and yeoman archers should be better in melee
-perfect vigor + magic attacks for louen (not on Beaquis)

DLC would be nice (Lost sons of brettonia, Knights of Morr/Black Guard of Morr and Herrimaults would be best unit choices) but thats for game 3 (maybe vs Mousillon)

I can imagine a dlc between tzeentch vs bret, magic vs might. This is more possible than mousilon vs bret since CA DLC does current core race vs older race like skv vs WE, lzm vs emp/bm.

In the lore, tzeentch did a massive invasion on bretonnia

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Year_of_Woe

ThibixMagnus#8300

yeah been said a billion times but varied generic lords and heroes would be great to allow for creativity and gameplay diversity, explore crazy new combos, something sadly lacking when selecting the army today. This is independent from the faction power level at any given patch.

They would also deserve an army mechanic like waagh through the prayer, and a lance formation that doesn't need crazy workarounds to be useful.

On the more immediate side of things, I would suggest bumping Louen regen to 8, maybe for a price. It is quite terrible compared to volkmar/boris/sigvald, who have twice the regen rate with no drawback (not lost on routing, nor fire weakness). This would make non-life damsels more useful.

#21546

I feel grail knights should have 36, 24 is a bit low imo. They are not monster cav, but elite cavalry

Cosmic_Lich#1188

Multiplayer and Campaign:

Update/Rework Stuff:

Units:
• Grail Knights/Guardians reworked to 48 unit count with more hp and better stats.
  
• Normal Pegasus Knights reworked to 36 unit count, but with similar total hp.
  
• Sword and Board Knights Errant variant.
  
• Lance Formation reworked to give less charge bonus, but now ignores 25% charge defence.
  
• Grail Guardian ROR with Guardian passive.
  
• More ROR in general please.
  
• A tech to buff Squires stats.
  
• A tech to reduce recruitment time for Reliquae and Blessed Field Trebuchet. Probably also costs gold like Charity.
  
• +1 Melee Defence for Blessed Field Trebuchet.
  
  Lords and Heroes:
  
• Unique skills for Fay Enchantress, Prophetesses, and Damsels.
  
• Unique skills for LL Lords, Lords, and Paladins.
  
• Fay skill tree rework to have less junk about Battle pilgrims and more about Fay magic.
  
• Rework Gridle of Gold and Power Familiar to be magic items. Girdle of Gold would be armor and Power Familiar would be a talisman rather than both being skills.
  
• Fay magic items buffed to have more stat increases and abilities:
  
• >Girdle of Gold to give melee defence.
  
• >Chalice of potions to give extra HP. Possibly a rework to reflect the different colors.
  
• >Power Familiar to grant a spell from one of the Bretonnian Lores not accessible to the Fay, similar to Chalice of potions.
  
• >Morgiana's mirror would be changed to reflect all of her spells, not just Lore of Life (see next point).
  
• Fay Mixed Spells of the Bretonnian Lores.
  
• Fay mortis engine nerf.
  
• Unicorn for Prophetesses.
  
• Damsel redesign to not look like Bobby Hill.
  
• Green knight having a small skill tree with few skills. Each skill point is granted based on Chivalry tier. Or maybe just give him slight buffs per Chivalry tier.
  
• Green Knight can spawn on any Lord of player choice at any moment of summoning him. Not just faction leader.
  
• Perfect vigor for Green Knight.
  
• Magic attacks and Perfect Vigor for Louen. He already starts with it in Campaign. Just increase his cost a bit.
  
• Amalric d' Gaudaron as a unique Paladin for The Fay Enchantress start. Similar to Henri Le Massif for Repanse, but anti-undead focused.
  
• Repanse having a skill to be anti-chaos. She beheaded a Chaos Lord as her first great accomplishment.
  
  Faction:
  
• Chivalry tiers granting increasing levels of replenishment.
  
• Slight replenishment increase for growth buildings. (Mod by me)
  
• All new tech available to all lords, not just Repanse. (Mod by me)
  
• Garrison rework for a few better units.
  
• Tier 3 walls shooting anything, but exploding cows. Siege rework I am looking at you for tower variation choice.
  
• Siege Workshop building being a t4 building instead of a t5.
  
• Unification of Bretonnia Tech to give +2 control like Charity does.
  

DLC Stuff:

• Lost Son hero as a Sword Master of Hoeth type caster.
  
• Sons of Bretonnia as 12 unit count as Aspiring Champions, but with 1 or 2 bound spells like Zoats.
  
• Lake Lions as Aquatic War Lions of Chrace with some other stats also shifted around.
  
• Questing Beast mount option for Lords and Paladins.
  
• Questing Beast Cavalry for ground alternative to Hippogryph monstrous cav. Probably also given to Sons of Bretonnia and Lost Sons.
  

Edit: Unit count for Grail units and minor formatting fixes.

saweendra#3399

Cosmic_Lich said:

Update/Rework Stuff:

Units:
• Grail Knights/Guardians reworked to 45 unit count with more hp and better stats.
  
• Normal Pegasus Knights reworked to 36 unit count, but with similar total hp.
  
• Sword and Board Knights Errant variant.
  
• Lance Formation reworked to give less charge bonus, but now ignores 25% charge defence.
  
• Grail Guardian ROR with Guardian passive.
  
• More ROR in general please.
  
• A tech to buff Squires stats.
  
• A tech to reduce recruitment time for Reliquae and Blessed Field Trebuchet. Probably also costs gold like Charity.
  
• +1 Melee Defence for Blessed Field Trebuchet.
  
  Lords and Heroes:
  
• Unique skills for Fay Enchantress, Prophetesses, and Damsels.
  
• Unique skills for LL Lords, Lords, and Paladins.
  
• Fay skill tree rework to have less junk about Battle pilgrims and more about Fay magic.
  
• Rework Gridle of Gold and Power Familiar to be magic items. Girdle of Gold would be armor and Power Familiar would be a talisman rather than both being skills.
  
• Fay magic items buffed to have more stat increases and abilities:
  
• >Girdle of Gold to give melee defence.
  
• >Chalice of potions to give extra HP. Possibly a rework to reflect the different colors.
  
• >Power Familiar to grant a spell from one of the Bretonnian Lores not accessible to the Fay, similar to Chalice of potions.
  
• >Morgiana's mirror would be changed to reflect all of her spells, not just Lore of Life (see next point).
  
• Fay Mixed Spells of the Bretonnian Lores.
  
• Fay Greater Arcane Conduit.
  
• Fay mortis engine nerf.
  
• Unicorn for Prophetesses.
  
• Damsel redesign to not look like Bobby Hill.
  
• Green knight having a small skill tree with few skills. Each skill point is granted based on Chivalry tier. Or maybe just give him slight buffs per Chivalry tier.
  
• Green Knight can spawn on any Lord of player choice at any moment of summoning him. Not just faction leader.
  
• Perfect vigor for Green Knight.
  
• Magic attacks and Perfect Vigor for Louen. He already starts with it in Campaign. Just increase his cost a bit.
  
• Amalric d' Gaudaron as a unique Paladin for The Fay Enchantress start. Similar to Henri Le Massif for Repanse, but anti-undead focused.
  
• Repanse having a skill to be anti-chaos. She beheaded a Chaos Lord as her first great accomplishment.
  
  Faction:
  
• Chivalry tiers granting increasing levels of replenishment.
  
• Slight replenishment increase for growth buildings. (Mod by me)
  
• All new tech available to all lords, not just Repanse. (Mod by me)
  
• Garrison rework for a few better units.
  
• Tier 3 walls shooting anything but exploding cows. Siege rework I am looking at you for tower variation choice.
  Siege Workshop building being a t4 building instead of a t5.
  Unification of Bretonnia Tech to give +2 control like Charity does.
  

DLC Stuff:

• Lost Son hero as a Sword Master of Hoeth type caster.
  
• Sons of Bretonnia as 12 unit count as Aspiring Champions, but with 1 or 2 bound spells like Zoats.
  
• Lake Lions as Aquatic War Lions of Chrace with some other stats also shifted around.
  
• Questing Beast mount option for Lords and Paladins.
  
• Questing Beast Cavalry for ground alternative to Hippogryph monstrous cav. Probably also given to Sons of Bretonnia and Lost Sons.
  

grial knights are already 45 models ? did you mean another model count

and sons of bretonnia and lost sons are same thing as far as i am aware

And Landuin for that hybrid melee caster goodness
some minor nitpicks any way love it.

Cosmic_Lich#1188

saweendra said:

Cosmic_Lich said:

Update/Rework Stuff:

Units:
• Grail Knights/Guardians reworked to 45 unit count with more hp and better stats.
  
• Normal Pegasus Knights reworked to 36 unit count, but with similar total hp.
  
• Sword and Board Knights Errant variant.
  
• Lance Formation reworked to give less charge bonus, but now ignores 25% charge defence.
  
• Grail Guardian ROR with Guardian passive.
  
• More ROR in general please.
  
• A tech to buff Squires stats.
  
• A tech to reduce recruitment time for Reliquae and Blessed Field Trebuchet. Probably also costs gold like Charity.
  
• +1 Melee Defence for Blessed Field Trebuchet.
  
  Lords and Heroes:
  
• Unique skills for Fay Enchantress, Prophetesses, and Damsels.
  
• Unique skills for LL Lords, Lords, and Paladins.
  
• Fay skill tree rework to have less junk about Battle pilgrims and more about Fay magic.
  
• Rework Gridle of Gold and Power Familiar to be magic items. Girdle of Gold would be armor and Power Familiar would be a talisman rather than both being skills.
  
• Fay magic items buffed to have more stat increases and abilities:
  
• >Girdle of Gold to give melee defence.
  
• >Chalice of potions to give extra HP. Possibly a rework to reflect the different colors.
  
• >Power Familiar to grant a spell from one of the Bretonnian Lores not accessible to the Fay, similar to Chalice of potions.
  
• >Morgiana's mirror would be changed to reflect all of her spells, not just Lore of Life (see next point).
  
• Fay Mixed Spells of the Bretonnian Lores.
  
• Fay Greater Arcane Conduit.
  
• Fay mortis engine nerf.
  
• Unicorn for Prophetesses.
  
• Damsel redesign to not look like Bobby Hill.
  
• Green knight having a small skill tree with few skills. Each skill point is granted based on Chivalry tier. Or maybe just give him slight buffs per Chivalry tier.
  
• Green Knight can spawn on any Lord of player choice at any moment of summoning him. Not just faction leader.
  
• Perfect vigor for Green Knight.
  
• Magic attacks and Perfect Vigor for Louen. He already starts with it in Campaign. Just increase his cost a bit.
  
• Amalric d' Gaudaron as a unique Paladin for The Fay Enchantress start. Similar to Henri Le Massif for Repanse, but anti-undead focused.
  
• Repanse having a skill to be anti-chaos. She beheaded a Chaos Lord as her first great accomplishment.
  
  Faction:
  
• Chivalry tiers granting increasing levels of replenishment.
  
• Slight replenishment increase for growth buildings. (Mod by me)
  
• All new tech available to all lords, not just Repanse. (Mod by me)
  
• Garrison rework for a few better units.
  
• Tier 3 walls shooting anything but exploding cows. Siege rework I am looking at you for tower variation choice.
  Siege Workshop building being a t4 building instead of a t5.
  Unification of Bretonnia Tech to give +2 control like Charity does.
  

DLC Stuff:

• Lost Son hero as a Sword Master of Hoeth type caster.
  
• Sons of Bretonnia as 12 unit count as Aspiring Champions, but with 1 or 2 bound spells like Zoats.
  
• Lake Lions as Aquatic War Lions of Chrace with some other stats also shifted around.
  
• Questing Beast mount option for Lords and Paladins.
  
• Questing Beast Cavalry for ground alternative to Hippogryph monstrous cav. Probably also given to Sons of Bretonnia and Lost Sons.
  

grial knights are already 45 models ? did you mean another model count

and sons of bretonnia and lost sons are same thing as far as i am aware

And Landuin for that hybrid melee caster goodness
some minor nitpicks any way love it.

My bad on the 45. The model count is 60 on ultra where most of the game is balanced and its how I play. It seems that these 60 model counts go by 12s. So I should have put 48.

There is no difference, just different names. I thought it would be neat if there was a hero type of these elite. Same how Exalted heroes are better Aspiring Champions are better Chosen and so on. The name could be interchanged so "Son of Bretonnia" could be the Hero while "Lost Sons" are the units. It doesn't matter to me.

Landuin is clearly a hero type of character so we know these types of characters exist. He would probably be a unique hero for Louen. Maybe even a fun quest to recruit him.

yst#1879

Blood knights r 45 and still elite af due to 110 armor and 40 def.

Grails r weak because they r very squishy with just 30 def and 90 armor. They r lucky they got phy resist and magic attack, otherwise drag prince wouldve roll them over like roadkills.

Grails could scale to 36 like those of cold knights, 24 is absurd to be par with demis

another505

Is not absurd to be on par with demis, just because they are monsters doesnt mean that they are that STRONG.
grail, and blood knights would have killed demigryph beast hundreds times over to become who they are. And even killed way bigger monsters.

and the knight on top is just a slightly better human knight that beat a demi into submission once. No other accomplishments to become a demi knight.

put the two of them together, they are still weaker than a grail or blood knight