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A super obnoxious one is stegadons getting their charge bonus refreshed in melee. Its triggered when they do their lunge animation, which is very common. So basically they have an extra 70MA in melee most of the time.
Thought they'd fix this after that massive Ungrim thread..
A super obnoxious one is stegadons getting their charge bonus refreshed in melee. Its triggered when they do their lunge animation, which is very common. So basically they have an extra 70MA in melee most of the time.
Thought they'd fix this after that massive Ungrim thread..
I was not able to replicate it vs infantry. Stared at the leadership bonuses the entire fight and never got a new charge bonus.
A super obnoxious one is stegadons getting their charge bonus refreshed in melee. Its triggered when they do their lunge animation, which is very common. So basically they have an extra 70MA in melee most of the time.
Thought they'd fix this after that massive Ungrim thread..
I was not able to replicate it vs infantry. Stared at the leadership bonuses the entire fight and never got a new charge bonus.
its super easy to do vs large (things on horse like tyrion for example). And its more common with mounts (e.g. mazda, teenieweenie or red crest) than feral stegs.
TheCentralScrutinizer here. I'm too lazy to create another account with my appropriate alias.
Dge1 - Thank you so much for moderating and keeping this thread as constructive as possible.
To address some issues in this thread that have been brought up:
'Manual fire allowing you to fire extra shots with artillery in between reload, btw?' - I'm not sure that this is a bug as it might be a feature and functioning as intended. Therefore, I will keep it off the bug list for the time being.
The following issues have been investigated and added to the document:
1. Gotrek heal bug 2. Rune of breaking not applying armor sunder properly when cast on certain units 3. Helm of Yvresse bug 4. Charge bonus on fleeing units bug 5. Slayer deathblow animation bug
Thank you all for your positivity and well wishes. Hopefully we can affect some positive change. If you discover any further bugs please let us know and we will get them added. I'd like to keep a version of this bug report working in real time to reflect the bug status of the patch or version the community is playing on at any given time so that it can be a resource for all to see and understand what is functional and what is not.
Cheers.
Thanks for adding this in. I just want to clarify something with the fleeing charge bug in the document to avoid any confusion.
"give a unit an attack a move order on toward a ranged unit until it begins skirmishing away."
The bug only surfaces if you click attack after it begins running away and continues to run away until caught.
After further testing, I see what you mean. I have corrected the bug in the document.
Skin Wolf Werekin does not have strider. Since the strider patch, strider has been a defining feature for Skin Wolves so this feels really bad.
I would add to low impact:
Skin Wolves terrain description is wrong due to the appropriate cell having an inappropriate designation. See Norsca Terrain Bug Fix mod for details.
Master Engineer does not have faction color. See Master Engineer mod correction for details.
Opinion:
I really like the idea that taking personal control of a warmachine (available) or a character (not available presently) could add skill expression and increased unit performance, so I would encourage CA to keep it up and add more features like this. If you have played Dungeon Keeper you know how cool this can be.
I can see the werekin and skin wolf bugs but I cannot reproduce the master engineer faction color issue. After looking for the mod you suggested I can't get much info either. Can you give more information or point me in a direction that will get me more info about this potential issue?
Also, on the terrain description, I don't understand what the remaining low impact issue is with the strider terrain description and I can't make since out of what the mod addresses that is currently lacking. Can you elaborate on that a little as well?
1. Charge bonus bug corrected 2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added 3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info 4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info 5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added 6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added 7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added 8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added 9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi 10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added 11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
I can see the werekin and skin wolf bugs but I cannot reproduce the master engineer faction color issue. After looking for the mod you suggested I can't get much info either. Can you give more information or point me in a direction that will get me more info about this potential issue?
Also, on the terrain description, I don't understand what the remaining low impact issue is with the strider terrain description and I can't make since out of what the mod addresses that is currently lacking. Can you elaborate on that a little as well?
Strider Terrain Fix is addressing the Information provided about the strider unit:
Each singular unit (must be only one unit selected) has a terrain description based on the terrain type you hover over. Werekin have the terrain type large which provides the information that they are slowed when in the forest. When CA updated the Werekin with Strider in the Strider patch they did not update the terrain type specifically called the Ground Stat Effect Group within the lands_units_tables. Below you can see the corrected cells from the terrain_bug_fix_mod for Norsca units. I would have added more units, but from my search Norsca was the only faction that didn't receive the memo to update the Ground Stat Effect Group.
Strider overrides generic stat effect caused by terrain, but strider is not referenced for informational purposes. So the effect of strider ignores negative terrain types, but the descriptions are not updated. One example is for regular Skin Wolves. Another is for the small ice hounds. Etc.
The Werekin Skin Wolf hero also is actually missing strider altogether. It also needs the terrain type updated. As you can see above there are others who needed the proper table Ground Stat Effect Group updated in the lands_units_tables. Every unit listed in the lands_units_table in my mod needed a Ground Stat Effect Group update. Only the Werekin hero needed his attributes updated.
I assume you know how strider is assigned. But I will walk through it for our audience, wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider is assigned under Attribute Group for the werekin hero also within the lands_units_tables. wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider refers to the attribute_group_tables which references each attribute individually so WH2 knows what attributes such as fear, strider and hide_forest a unit has and appears next to abilities at the bottom of the unit's unit card.
The terrain type is probably less known, and clearly less understood.
It's miopic so we can cut him some slack. Celtic changed the terrain type of Skin Wolves from Large to Small, so that forests do not show the wrong terrain info (because small units don't have terrain effects in forests). This works, but then it will show the wrong terrain info for shallow water. This might surprise some people but strider ignores water terrain effects too and so does being large. To be fair, shallow water isn't very common. On the other hand Skin Wolves are large.
This leads us to two pieces of information.
For strider units that are large the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is Large_Bst which refers to large beastmen. Beastmen all have woodsman, so with this Ground Stat Effect Group you won't have misinformation popping up. It's not obvious, but I noted the Green Skins Arachnarok was already using this so it was an easy solution to find.
For strider units that are small the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is small_strider. This I would argue is obvious.
Ok, hope that is clearer than mud. If not I gave it a college try. I think CA could have named Ground Stat Effect Group for large and small strider units just strider, because as far as I know it's not used for anything else, but who am I to not use the correct syntax. Maybe someone will reference the difference in some obscure table someday.
As for how the Master Engineer mod works, I don't have the foggiest clue, but if you ask really nice on the modding den or on the mod webpage, someone will probably clear it up for you. Since I haven't played with anything visual like models or textures I cannot pretend to even go find the answer at this time. Here's the modding web page though: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2032988630&searchtext=master+engineer
If you are not in a hurry I am sure I will learn this eventually, but I am sure that someone who plays with textures right now especially faction color textures could answer the question of how faction colors are added to the master engineer in the mod file.
Is there any way to actually make sure that CA has their eyeballs on this document and that they are aware these are problems currently in the game??
I did notice that a CA member liked it so it likely means they have read it and hopefully it has been passed on to the people who can look further into those
Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism. I remember all CA has responded so far is by CA_Grace who mentioned in another post that "We are aware and looking into it but there is NO GUARANTEE" and now that Grace has left I doubt if they are really working on it, especially there is LITERALLY no timeline, no plan, no any sort of of confirmation from the company AT ALL, for like 4 **** weeks.
Why isn't a bug fix guaranteed CA? When you sell your product is it your original intention to make it unplayable? Why would anyone pay for a game that cannot guarantee to be at least somewhat playable with some efforts from the developers to fix the bugs...ESPECIALLY when now that all the DEBUGGING has been presented to you by all others that are not PAID for this? IS WH3 gonna be bugged as well and you have no guarantee to commit making it a playable game and fix bugs?? Who is gonna buy that lol?
It also enrages me that this post has not be pinned at this state by mods, when in the past they have been very efficient in other petty or minor issues lol.
1. Charge bonus bug corrected 2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added 3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info 4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info 5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added 6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added 7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added 8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added 9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi 10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added 11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
Thank you all for your help!
About stegadons, that is not really a bug is it? If animations pushing opponent back and refresh cb is a bug then I think you need to put many other units in that list and then buff them a lot. It used to happen a lot in all air to air combat too, dunno if this is still the case with fewer staggers now. I think this is embedded deep into the game balance of units with animations...
Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it!
what is wrong with ushabti summon, mind elaborating please?
Sometimes does not let you summon them, it has been bugged for years, probably people who play little TK have not noticed it but this bug is known
I play lots TK and have never heard or had it happen to me, is it in campaign only that it happens?
I asked it in your discord a long time ago and people told me it was a bug and it "was reported", but since few people play TK and it happens from time to time ,it was not "important", I have known this bug for YEARS in the last KOTH of davhs it happened to me
what is wrong with ushabti summon, mind elaborating please?
Sometimes does not let you summon them, it has been bugged for years, probably people who play little TK have not noticed it but this bug is known
I play lots TK and have never heard or had it happen to me, is it in campaign only that it happens?
Wotch wood map is really bugged happen to me there couple of times. But it might be seperate bug where you can not cast on intended target because it happen to me wuth other casters jn theat map
what is wrong with ushabti summon, mind elaborating please?
Sometimes does not let you summon them, it has been bugged for years, probably people who play little TK have not noticed it but this bug is known
I play lots TK and have never heard or had it happen to me, is it in campaign only that it happens?
Wotch wood map is really bugged happen to me there couple of times. But it might be seperate bug where you can not cast on intended target because it happen to me wuth other casters jn theat map
I forget the map name but during my VC campaign I was attacked in the northern WE city during the end turn and it couldn't load into the map without crashing. I had to just auto resolve those battles after a few tries.
what is wrong with ushabti summon, mind elaborating please?
Sometimes does not let you summon them, it has been bugged for years, probably people who play little TK have not noticed it but this bug is known
I play lots TK and have never heard or had it happen to me, is it in campaign only that it happens?
Wotch wood map is really bugged happen to me there couple of times. But it might be seperate bug where you can not cast on intended target because it happen to me wuth other casters jn theat map
I forget the map name but during my VC campaign I was attacked in the northern WE city during the end turn and it couldn't load into the map without crashing. I had to just auto resolve those battles after a few tries.
Yeah i hate that map. If it wasn't a stupid bugged i would say its a good map for qb. But as it stands its just crap.
I think the other map in qb from the same dlc is also crap. But not as bad as this one.
i assume the master engineer faction colour bug is due to not applying the alpha map correctly, which should specify areas for faction colours to go onto. i believe a similar thing happened to kroxigors, though i manually repainted some of the diffuse myslef anyway due to other reasons and mostly got it to work by using a different shader. in game they are whitewashed:
1. Charge bonus bug corrected 2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added 3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info 4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info 5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added 6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added 7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added 8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added 9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi 10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added 11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
Thank you all for your help!
About stegadons, that is not really a bug is it? If animations pushing opponent back and refresh cb is a bug then I think you need to put many other units in that list and then buff them a lot. It used to happen a lot in all air to air combat too, dunno if this is still the case with fewer staggers now. I think this is embedded deep into the game balance of units with animations...
That might be true. However, I am going off collective opinion and knowledge of the community. I am not aware of this particular issue happening with other units. Therefore, I will leave it as a potential bug as of now and change it as necessary moving forward.
what is wrong with ushabti summon, mind elaborating please?
Sometimes does not let you summon them, it has been bugged for years, probably people who play little TK have not noticed it but this bug is known
I play lots TK and have never heard or had it happen to me, is it in campaign only that it happens?
I asked it in your discord a long time ago and people told me it was a bug and it "was reported", but since few people play TK and it happens from time to time ,it was not "important", I have known this bug for YEARS in the last KOTH of davhs it happened to me
I am willing to do investigation into this issue but I will need repeatable steps to reproduce.
i assume the master engineer faction colour bug is due to not applying the alpha map correctly, which should specify areas for faction colours to go onto. i believe a similar thing happened to kroxigors, though i manually repainted some of the diffuse myslef anyway due to other reasons and mostly got it to work by using a different shader. in game they are whitewashed:
So is the master engineer bug a color issue with the unit model or the unit flag?
Also, can anyone else confirm that the intended color scheme of the kroxigor unit is supposed to contain red? I am more than willing to add this issue but I'm not sure that the red in the color scheme is intended functionality even if the demo model contained it.
1. Charge bonus bug corrected 2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added 3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info 4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info 5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added 6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added 7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added 8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added 9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi 10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added 11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
Thank you all for your help!
About stegadons, that is not really a bug is it? If animations pushing opponent back and refresh cb is a bug then I think you need to put many other units in that list and then buff them a lot. It used to happen a lot in all air to air combat too, dunno if this is still the case with fewer staggers now. I think this is embedded deep into the game balance of units with animations...
That might be true. However, I am going off collective opinion and knowledge of the community. I am not aware of this particular issue happening with other units. Therefore, I will leave it as a potential bug as of now and change it as necessary moving forward.
I went in to test a few and started with Stegadon to make sure my method of testing catches it, but..... I can't really see this happening anymore. I am sure it used to happen, I am one of the people who has been talking about it, but now when I try to reproduce it I can't. I am pretty sure interactions have changed too because Stagadon used to do pretty well vs Ungrim because of this but now it loses pretty clearly. When I tried to reproduce it vs a horse using Alarielle on Horse (high MD, low armor makes it easy to spot), the Stegadon does not refresh CB a single time.
What I did observe however when putting a stegadon up vs Gotrek was that there is some small extra damage in there (impact?) but not the full CB and the hit chance does not seem to include the CB. I think you want to confirm this, because this is not the way it used to be.
Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it!
1. Charge bonus bug corrected 2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added 3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info 4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info 5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added 6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added 7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added 8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added 9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi 10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added 11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
Thank you all for your help!
About stegadons, that is not really a bug is it? If animations pushing opponent back and refresh cb is a bug then I think you need to put many other units in that list and then buff them a lot. It used to happen a lot in all air to air combat too, dunno if this is still the case with fewer staggers now. I think this is embedded deep into the game balance of units with animations...
That might be true. However, I am going off collective opinion and knowledge of the community. I am not aware of this particular issue happening with other units. Therefore, I will leave it as a potential bug as of now and change it as necessary moving forward.
I think it still happens some in air battles but not as often as before the changes to grace period. If you for example let Griffin fight Pegasus the pegasus often loses even though they have better stats. I don't think it happens without a stagger animation though, and on flying mounts they only have 50-60% resist to stagger reactions which is working as intended since they introduced grace period of 2 secs, so I don't know if that makes refreshed CB after stagger reactions working as intended or not...
Anyways, the proper way to reproduce/confirm these effects would be to make tests in a mod with 0 MA, 50 MD, 100 CB, 0 WS, max hit chance 100, min hit chance 0, or something like that and see if the damage each other.
If stegadons do this still I would also suspect bell/furnace, hierotitan after burning animation, volkmar on wagon, shagoths after their animation on the hind legs, etc, etc. In general air combat I would expect manticores and griffins do this to all flying cavalry class mounts like pegasus, hellsteed etc.
Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it!
i assume the master engineer faction colour bug is due to not applying the alpha map correctly, which should specify areas for faction colours to go onto. i believe a similar thing happened to kroxigors, though i manually repainted some of the diffuse myslef anyway due to other reasons and mostly got it to work by using a different shader. in game they are whitewashed:
So is the master engineer bug a color issue with the unit model or the unit flag?
Also, can anyone else confirm that the intended color scheme of the kroxigor unit is supposed to contain red? I am more than willing to add this issue but I'm not sure that the red in the color scheme is intended functionality even if the demo model contained it.
So if you've played the lizardmen since the Hunter and Beast DLC, you've probably noticed that our Kroxigor bois have been rocking some new colors! In fact, kroxigors in every faction have been rocking the same colors of nakai's faction.
Many of you have probably seen it (I believe Turin has even mentioned it) and chalked it up to a bug somewhere, and moved on- because its not game breaking, and they still look awesome! And it really isn't a huge problem. But IMO, its one of the most visible bugs from last patch, and probably the least understood, as it has mostly to do with back-end modding related things.
After doing some digging, I believe I've found what the issue could be, and how it could be addressed quite easily. Again, this isn't a game breaking bug, but as you'll see, the hard work that CA character artists have put into these units isn't being fully utilized, and we're missing out on that small (but noticeable) bit of visual spice.
For those unfamiliar- every model ingame has a set of textures that make up the unit's appearance. The only two that matter in this case are the “diffuse” which is the base coat of paint for a unit, and the “color mask” which generates the faction colors on-top of the base coat.
Every unit uses the same “diffuse” base coat, and then a “color mask” that colors areas of the base coat to match the faction color scheme
Look familiar? The ancient krox is using a base texture, with nakai's colors already filled in! This means that any unit using the Ancient kroxigor base texture will ALWAYS have those colors. This appears to also include the regular kroxs, which is why we're seeing this bug.
On the right side- the sacred kroxigor is using the same texture, only there are no faction colors filled in yet- that is how these units should look. This is also why Sacred Kroxigors still use the colors of their faction, while regular krox don't!
Now, there's also a second aspect to this bug. See if you can spot the difference: https://i.imgur.com/er7vEiG.jpgNotice how the yellow isn't colored within the lines like the krox on the right? This is because the “color mask” for the sacred krox is not complete!Lets take a closer look: https://i.imgur.com/u8A5d6F.jpg
On the right, you see a color mask for kroxigors (pre-hunter and beast). The areas colored in Red, Green, and blue all represent areas that where faction colors appear on the unit!
On the left you see the color mask for the sacred kroxigors. Notice that there's no Blue or Green areas! And the red area only covers the top of the head and part of the back! And its not inside the white lines! Essentially, this means sacred Kroxigors aren't using the full faction color palette, and their not being colored correctly!
Its worth noting that the Ancient Kroxigor (which comes pre-painted in Nakai colors) has a completely blank color-mask, so no faction colors are applied to ancient or regular krox!
So what's the solution you say? Its a simple spell, and quite unbreakable. You would need to:
replace the current, pre-colored ancient kroxigor texture, with the “blank” un-colored Sacred Kroxigor texture.
Update the color-mask to use Red Blue and Green regions, and color them within the lines!
For anyone with modding and photoshop skills, this would be a fairly easy order. In fact, as I write this, I'm working on my own fix! However, this fix could be knocked out quite easily by folks at CA, who likely have the original model files, and years more experience than in these fields.
I hope that this little presentation has raised some awareness for this overlooked bug, and if they haven't already, helped point CA in the direction of a potential solution!
for the red on base kroxis, i am almost certain they are meant to be like that based on the demo model and some screenshots i found online, it could also linked to the faction colour.
if anyone else can look into the game files that would be great, as im away from home at the moment.
I can see the werekin and skin wolf bugs but I cannot reproduce the master engineer faction color issue. After looking for the mod you suggested I can't get much info either. Can you give more information or point me in a direction that will get me more info about this potential issue?
Also, on the terrain description, I don't understand what the remaining low impact issue is with the strider terrain description and I can't make since out of what the mod addresses that is currently lacking. Can you elaborate on that a little as well?
Strider Terrain Fix is addressing the Information provided about the strider unit:
Each singular unit (must be only one unit selected) has a terrain description based on the terrain type you hover over. Werekin have the terrain type large which provides the information that they are slowed when in the forest. When CA updated the Werekin with Strider in the Strider patch they did not update the terrain type specifically called the Ground Stat Effect Group within the lands_units_tables. Below you can see the corrected cells from the terrain_bug_fix_mod for Norsca units. I would have added more units, but from my search Norsca was the only faction that didn't receive the memo to update the Ground Stat Effect Group.
Strider overrides generic stat effect caused by terrain, but strider is not referenced for informational purposes. So the effect of strider ignores negative terrain types, but the descriptions are not updated. One example is for regular Skin Wolves. Another is for the small ice hounds. Etc.
The Werekin Skin Wolf hero also is actually missing strider altogether. It also needs the terrain type updated. As you can see above there are others who needed the proper table Ground Stat Effect Group updated in the lands_units_tables. Every unit listed in the lands_units_table in my mod needed a Ground Stat Effect Group update. Only the Werekin hero needed his attributes updated.
I assume you know how strider is assigned. But I will walk through it for our audience, wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider is assigned under Attribute Group for the werekin hero also within the lands_units_tables. wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider refers to the attribute_group_tables which references each attribute individually so WH2 knows what attributes such as fear, strider and hide_forest a unit has and appears next to abilities at the bottom of the unit's unit card.
The terrain type is probably less known, and clearly less understood.
It's miopic so we can cut him some slack. Celtic changed the terrain type of Skin Wolves from Large to Small, so that forests do not show the wrong terrain info (because small units don't have terrain effects in forests). This works, but then it will show the wrong terrain info for shallow water. This might surprise some people but strider ignores water terrain effects too and so does being large. To be fair, shallow water isn't very common. On the other hand Skin Wolves are large.
This leads us to two pieces of information.
For strider units that are large the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is Large_Bst which refers to large beastmen. Beastmen all have woodsman, so with this Ground Stat Effect Group you won't have misinformation popping up. It's not obvious, but I noted the Green Skins Arachnarok was already using this so it was an easy solution to find.
For strider units that are small the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is small_strider. This I would argue is obvious.
Ok, hope that is clearer than mud. If not I gave it a college try. I think CA could have named Ground Stat Effect Group for large and small strider units just strider, because as far as I know it's not used for anything else, but who am I to not use the correct syntax. Maybe someone will reference the difference in some obscure table someday.
As for how the Master Engineer mod works, I don't have the foggiest clue, but if you ask really nice on the modding den or on the mod webpage, someone will probably clear it up for you. Since I haven't played with anything visual like models or textures I cannot pretend to even go find the answer at this time. Here's the modding web page though: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2032988630&searchtext=master+engineer
If you are not in a hurry I am sure I will learn this eventually, but I am sure that someone who plays with textures right now especially faction color textures could answer the question of how faction colors are added to the master engineer in the mod file.
Thank you so much for this detailed description. Obviously, this took you a good bit of time and you know the issue more than most of us so we are grateful.
So to be clear, this bug manifests in two different ways.
The first is, that the werekin hero does not have strider as it should.
Secondly, other units on the Norscan roster including the ice wolf and skin wolf units correctly have strider but do not have the proper description on terrain hover.
So, the first being a functional bug and second being more cosmetic in nature.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeAlso, on the terrain description, I don't understand what the remaining low impact issue is with the strider terrain description and I can't make since out of what the mod addresses that is currently lacking. Can you elaborate on that a little as well?
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1 · Disagree 1Agree1. Charge bonus bug corrected
2. Skin wolf werekin strider bug added
3. Skin wolf terrain issue - need more info
4. Master engineer color issue - can't reproduce. need more info
5. Stegadon charge bonus in combat bug added
6. Pistol summon on top of vampire caster destroys unit bug added
7. Double hit from cannon on Slann bug added
8. Aranessa spearfisher net bug added
9. Medusa mortar inaccuracy bug - can't reproduce - lets talk Loupi
10. Glade captain on eagle doesn't count towards flyer cap bug added
11. Refuse to die skink RoR bug added
If I missed anything please let me know. On the issues that I can't reproduce or am having issues understanding the nature of, please give me more details and I'll do the best I can to note what exactly the issue is and get it documented.
Thank you all for your help!
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2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeEach singular unit (must be only one unit selected) has a terrain description based on the terrain type you hover over. Werekin have the terrain type large which provides the information that they are slowed when in the forest. When CA updated the Werekin with Strider in the Strider patch they did not update the terrain type specifically called the Ground Stat Effect Group within the lands_units_tables. Below you can see the corrected cells from the terrain_bug_fix_mod for Norsca units. I would have added more units, but from my search Norsca was the only faction that didn't receive the memo to update the Ground Stat Effect Group.
Strider overrides generic stat effect caused by terrain, but strider is not referenced for informational purposes. So the effect of strider ignores negative terrain types, but the descriptions are not updated. One example is for regular Skin Wolves. Another is for the small ice hounds. Etc.
The Werekin Skin Wolf hero also is actually missing strider altogether. It also needs the terrain type updated. As you can see above there are others who needed the proper table Ground Stat Effect Group updated in the lands_units_tables. Every unit listed in the lands_units_table in my mod needed a Ground Stat Effect Group update. Only the Werekin hero needed his attributes updated.
See the bug_fix mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2503229261
I assume you know how strider is assigned. But I will walk through it for our audience, wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider is assigned under Attribute Group for the werekin hero also within the lands_units_tables. wh2_dlc15_fear_hideForest_immPsy_vanguard_encourage_strider refers to the attribute_group_tables which references each attribute individually so WH2 knows what attributes such as fear, strider and hide_forest a unit has and appears next to abilities at the bottom of the unit's unit card.
The terrain type is probably less known, and clearly less understood.
As you can see here Celtic saw the issue but provided the wrong terrain type AGAIN in the community bugfix: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/1234481316/1679190184059569777/
It's miopic so we can cut him some slack. Celtic changed the terrain type of Skin Wolves from Large to Small, so that forests do not show the wrong terrain info (because small units don't have terrain effects in forests). This works, but then it will show the wrong terrain info for shallow water. This might surprise some people but strider ignores water terrain effects too and so does being large. To be fair, shallow water isn't very common. On the other hand Skin Wolves are large.
This leads us to two pieces of information.
For strider units that are large the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is Large_Bst which refers to large beastmen. Beastmen all have woodsman, so with this Ground Stat Effect Group you won't have misinformation popping up. It's not obvious, but I noted the Green Skins Arachnarok was already using this so it was an easy solution to find.
For strider units that are small the correct terrain type (Ground Stat Effect Group) is small_strider. This I would argue is obvious.
Ok, hope that is clearer than mud. If not I gave it a college try. I think CA could have named Ground Stat Effect Group for large and small strider units just strider, because as far as I know it's not used for anything else, but who am I to not use the correct syntax. Maybe someone will reference the difference in some obscure table someday.
As for how the Master Engineer mod works, I don't have the foggiest clue, but if you ask really nice on the modding den or on the mod webpage, someone will probably clear it up for you. Since I haven't played with anything visual like models or textures I cannot pretend to even go find the answer at this time. Here's the modding web page though: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2032988630&searchtext=master+engineer
If you are not in a hurry I am sure I will learn this eventually, but I am sure that someone who plays with textures right now especially faction color textures could answer the question of how faction colors are added to the master engineer in the mod file.
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1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeWhy isn't a bug fix guaranteed CA? When you sell your product is it your original intention to make it unplayable? Why would anyone pay for a game that cannot guarantee to be at least somewhat playable with some efforts from the developers to fix the bugs...ESPECIALLY when now that all the DEBUGGING has been presented to you by all others that are not PAID for this? IS WH3 gonna be bugged as well and you have no guarantee to commit making it a playable game and fix bugs?? Who is gonna buy that lol?
It also enrages me that this post has not be pinned at this state by mods, when in the past they have been very efficient in other petty or minor issues lol.
CA let's do this one more time,
ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THIS GAME OR NOT?
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1 · Disagree 1Agreein the last KOTH of davhs it happened to me
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0 · Disagree AgreeBut it might be seperate bug where you can not cast on intended target because it happen to me wuth other casters jn theat map
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeBut as it stands its just crap.
I think the other map in qb from the same dlc is also crap. But not as bad as this one.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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2 · 1Disagree 2Agreein game they are whitewashed:
in my mod it has been fixed:
this issue has been around since release.
heres my mod for referance: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2463398346
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0 · Disagree AgreeAlso, can anyone else confirm that the intended color scheme of the kroxigor unit is supposed to contain red? I am more than willing to add this issue but I'm not sure that the red in the color scheme is intended functionality even if the demo model contained it.
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0 · Disagree AgreeWhat I did observe however when putting a stegadon up vs Gotrek was that there is some small extra damage in there (impact?) but not the full CB and the hit chance does not seem to include the CB. I think you want to confirm this, because this is not the way it used to be.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAnyways, the proper way to reproduce/confirm these effects would be to make tests in a mod with 0 MA, 50 MD, 100 CB, 0 WS, max hit chance 100, min hit chance 0, or something like that and see if the damage each other.
If stegadons do this still I would also suspect bell/furnace, hierotitan after burning animation, volkmar on wagon, shagoths after their animation on the hind legs, etc, etc. In general air combat I would expect manticores and griffins do this to all flying cavalry class mounts like pegasus, hellsteed etc.
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0 · Disagree AgreeMany of you have probably seen it (I believe Turin has even mentioned it) and chalked it up to a bug somewhere, and moved on- because its not game breaking, and they still look awesome! And it really isn't a huge problem. But IMO, its one of the most visible bugs from last patch, and probably the least understood, as it has mostly to do with back-end modding related things.
After doing some digging, I believe I've found what the issue could be, and how it could be addressed quite easily. Again, this isn't a game breaking bug, but as you'll see, the hard work that CA character artists have put into these units isn't being fully utilized, and we're missing out on that small (but noticeable) bit of visual spice.
For those unfamiliar- every model ingame has a set of textures that make up the unit's appearance. The only two that matter in this case are the “diffuse” which is the base coat of paint for a unit, and the “color mask” which generates the faction colors on-top of the base coat.
Every unit uses the same “diffuse” base coat, and then a “color mask” that colors areas of the base coat to match the faction color scheme
Here are the base textures for the Ancient Kroxigor (left), and Sacred Kroxigor (right):https://i.imgur.com/8PvTNLz.jpg
Look familiar? The ancient krox is using a base texture, with nakai's colors already filled in! This means that any unit using the Ancient kroxigor base texture will ALWAYS have those colors. This appears to also include the regular kroxs, which is why we're seeing this bug.
On the right side- the sacred kroxigor is using the same texture, only there are no faction colors filled in yet- that is how these units should look. This is also why Sacred Kroxigors still use the colors of their faction, while regular krox don't!
Now, there's also a second aspect to this bug. See if you can spot the difference: https://i.imgur.com/er7vEiG.jpgNotice how the yellow isn't colored within the lines like the krox on the right? This is because the “color mask” for the sacred krox is not complete!Lets take a closer look: https://i.imgur.com/u8A5d6F.jpg
On the right, you see a color mask for kroxigors (pre-hunter and beast). The areas colored in Red, Green, and blue all represent areas that where faction colors appear on the unit!
On the left you see the color mask for the sacred kroxigors. Notice that there's no Blue or Green areas! And the red area only covers the top of the head and part of the back! And its not inside the white lines! Essentially, this means sacred Kroxigors aren't using the full faction color palette, and their not being colored correctly!
Its worth noting that the Ancient Kroxigor (which comes pre-painted in Nakai colors) has a completely blank color-mask, so no faction colors are applied to ancient or regular krox!
So what's the solution you say? Its a simple spell, and quite unbreakable. You would need to:
replace the current, pre-colored ancient kroxigor texture, with the “blank” un-colored Sacred Kroxigor texture.
Update the color-mask to use Red Blue and Green regions, and color them within the lines!
For anyone with modding and photoshop skills, this would be a fairly easy order. In fact, as I write this, I'm working on my own fix! However, this fix could be knocked out quite easily by folks at CA, who likely have the original model files, and years more experience than in these fields.
I hope that this little presentation has raised some awareness for this overlooked bug, and if they haven't already, helped point CA in the direction of a potential solution!
for the red on base kroxis, i am almost certain they are meant to be like that based on the demo model and some screenshots i found online, it could also linked to the faction colour.
if anyone else can look into the game files that would be great, as im away from home at the moment.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeSo to be clear, this bug manifests in two different ways.
The first is, that the werekin hero does not have strider as it should.
Secondly, other units on the Norscan roster including the ice wolf and skin wolf units correctly have strider but do not have the proper description on terrain hover.
So, the first being a functional bug and second being more cosmetic in nature.
Is my understanding correct there?
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