Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Humans vs Elves: Which race would win in an all out war?

XxXScorpionXxXXxXScorpionXxX Registered Users Posts: 4,979
edited August 2021 in General Discussion
The Empire joins with the Kingdoms of Bretonnia, Kislev and the Southern Realms against the combined forces of the High, Wood and Dark Elves.

Who would come out on top assuming no other races interfere.

Would it be a global scale war the likes of which have not been seen since the great sundering? Or would the Elves, with superior magic, Dragons, and Navies just run over the Human races?

Note if you feel Elves are still a mismatch to the European powers then you can add Araby, Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Albion and Norsca to the mix.
Request scorched body textures, poisoned dying animations for infantry's skeletons, a blood slider that allows us to control how much blood appears in battle and make proper death animations for all ethereal units so they vanish for Blood for the Blood God 3.
Post edited by XxXScorpionXxX on
«13456723

Comments

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 35,654
    Whoever the author says so.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu usurper, pog wog warrior, poggers patroller

  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 4,744
    Humans. Assuming that the war would last decades due to the sheer size of it, Elves will be outnumbered severely.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,591
    The Witcher already answered this question. Unless if the Elves can end it within a decade or so, they will lose to sheer attrition.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 35,654
    Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu usurper, pog wog warrior, poggers patroller

  • 6nieve66nieve6 Registered Users Posts: 550
    Elves will win all the battles during the first years

    Human will win war due to attrition
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 35,654
    6nieve6 said:

    Elves will win all the battles during the first years

    Chaos will win war due to attrition


    Fix'd.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu usurper, pog wog warrior, poggers patroller

  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 639

    Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.

    ...*looks at Sigmar, myrmidia, and ulric*...🧐
  • 6nieve66nieve6 Registered Users Posts: 550

    6nieve6 said:

    Elves will win all the battles during the first years

    Chaos will win war due to attrition


    Fix'd.
    True
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    Elves would utterly slaughter Mankind so hard it wouldn't even be funny. They are crushingly outmatched in any single criteria that matters, with their only advantage being numbers and maybe Grail Knights being able to stalemate Swordmasters, Phoenix Guards or Blackguards, and that's a maybe.

    Elvenkind strength is that they are excessively top-loaded. Not only is their baseline warrior better than a baseline human warrior, the best of what Elves can muster is leagues above the best of mankind. Like, who's humanity best fighter ? Scharzweim got his ass handed to him by a generic Bretonnian Paladin, so Louencoeur is the peak of humanity. Tyrion annihilate him, and so does Malekith and Orion.

    Now, about magic. Humanity have the Fey, Gelt, Elspeth and that fire wizard that lost the title of patriarch to Gelt. All of those but the Fey lose to a generic Archmage. Now, you add Teclis, Morathi and Ariel to the mix, and yeah, three Nagash-tier spellcasters, humanity is a disintegrated spot on the ground in a month.

    Numbers might win attrition, but Magic is so absolutely powerful in Warhammer that your numbers become meaningless if the opposing army can incinerate a whole regiment with a snap of their finger. And Teclis and Morathi definitely can do this.

    Magic is king, and humanity cannot even dream of equaling Elves there.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,430
    Elves very very easily, but if you add cathay to the human side humanity could have a shot.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 35,654

    Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.

    ...*looks at Sigmar, myrmidia, and ulric*...🧐
    None of those take physical form.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu usurper, pog wog warrior, poggers patroller

  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,662
    Alright, just humans vs just elves.

    So, including all factions of elves in the lore, Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Laurelorn/Eonir/Weird Wood Elf cosplay of High Elves.

    And all factions of Humans in the lore, Tilea, Estalia, Border Princes, Sartosa, Araby, Bretonnia, The Empire, Kislev, Norsca, Albion, Ind, Nippon, and Cathay.

    Humans win.

    Elves are fragmented and isolated from one another.
    Laurelorn Forest would be defeated pretty quickly as they're basically Warhammer Lichtenstein.
    Athel Loren is much more pertinent and imposing until it becomes winter when Orion dies, the tree spirits disappear, and the forest basically just decides to not do anything. Because they're so isolated from everyone, they will likely not be able to do any more than raiding attacks or just defend as humans set the trees on fire.

    So, Wood Elves would probably survive a war, but they would be pretty battered and bruised. They would likely negotiate for peace separately and pretty early on as it would be pretty hard for them to oppose the entire Empire, all of Kislev, all of Bretonnia, all of Estalia, all of Tilea, and any other nation that joins the dogpile in time.

    The High Elves would basically lose all of their trading income as every viable trading partner has declared war on them.
    The dwarfs could be traded with via Barak Varr as long as none of those High Elf ships get caught by any navies of Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Araby, Sartosa, and the Border Princes (with their one dinghy). Now, Ulthuan itself will never be touched for the entirety of the war, but most High Elf colonies would be seized particularly since their navy will be stuck defending their homeland.

    The Dark Elves would be the least affected of all the Elven races. they would likely loot and raze any New World Colonies, Skeggi, and potentially Sudenburg. Honestly, the Dark Elf homeland has almost no chance of actually being attacked or harmed in any meaningful way. So, the Dark Elves would likely take the opportunity to potentially stab the High Elves in the back which would essentially end the War.

    Even if we assume that there is absolutely no infighting between Dark Elves and High Elves, the situation would just be a giant Naval stalemate as Ulthuan's trade economy presumably either became heavily reliant on Dark Elf trade or until their trade economy basically completely collapsed.

    Albion would likely be seized by the Dark Elves, High Elves or some combined force of them. This would likely lead to some campaign of Guerilla warfare of some sort as that's what knock-off fantasy celts would do.

    The various Southern Realm factions would likely not contribute all that much to the war other than some Naval power. Estalia, Tilea, and the Border Princes would likely start infighting pretty soon into the war as that is basically all that they do.

    In the East, it basically would be a complete sweep for Humanity merely for the fact that, there are just a few underpopulated High Elf colonies facing off against the combined forces of Cathay, Nippon, and Ind.
    After any High Elf Colonies are seized, those countries would basically become mostly superfluous or would start infighting over spoils or historical disputes. Dark Elf raids will occur every once in a while, but that won't really affect them all that much.

    TLDR, Elves lose the war, but aren't horribly affected.
    High Elves have a slightly faster decline now.
    Dark Elves end up being the most powerful Elf group left.
    Laurelorn is burned.
    Wood Elves are alive, but a bit sad about the charred trees.
    Albion is a bog on fire instead of being a regular bog.
    Humans are basically unaffected with no major losses other than every navy except the far eastern ones took a beating.

  • BloodydaggerBloodydagger Registered Users Posts: 4,005
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,991
    ^^More or less agree with Saint Corn.

    I don’t see the humans mustering a navy capable of assaulting Ulthuan or Naggarond with all the fleets and Black Arks.

    But I ALSO don’t see the Elves having the population/supply chain to actually occupy any human territory without spreading themselves comically thin.

    Like, even if an Elven army defeats an Empire army on the beaches of the Old World… how do the Elves have any hope of pacifying/occupying any of that land… especially over time all over the world?

    The Elves would be permanently fighting a global Vietnam, without the population/sheer force to deal with any kind of mass asymmetrical warfare.

    Army vs Army, Elves win. Navy vs Navy, Elves win. But the war would quickly devolve into Army vs guerrillas…which the Elves wouldn’t be able to handle over time.

    Archmages can’t cast spells if they’re randomly shot in the back by a Handgunner in a bell tower while the Archmage was having lunch in a ‘pacified’ city.

    Kislevite witches randomly freezing occupied wells.

    Bretonnians peasants intentionally spreading pox in occupied city halls.

    Empire engineers setting mines at night along Elven patrol routes.

    Plenty of fighting/resistance would take place outside of armies/battles…and the Elves would be completely incapable of monitoring/controlling/deterring it all.
  • 6nieve66nieve6 Registered Users Posts: 550
    It's hard to gauge the real elven forces

    Teclis only took two archmages with him when he went to help humans to create the Imperial Colleges. He also only took 300 swordmasters as his bodyguards during Storm of Chaos.

    So...pretty powerful but the numbers are laughable. Elves can win battles but it's impossible for them to control territory

  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 2,078
    Do the Human follower of Chaos join the human in this fight ?

    Also I don't think it's impossible that Ulthuan doesn't get sacked, at least partially, Grom the Paunch did it already and the Greenskin Navy is worse than that of the Bretonnian, Empire, Chaos
  • GrbaGrba Registered Users Posts: 474
    The Elves have quality on their side,but the humans have the numbers,in the long run I think that the humans would grind them out.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,841
    Humans of course. Elves are a dying race.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited August 2021
    The Dark Elves are only a "superpower" thanks to absolutely terrible and careless writing that ignores that they should have gone extinct long ago from the completely dysfunctional way their society and economy is set up to the barren and hostile environment they're living in and the endless string of bad decisions made by their leadership.

    HE as well would have been on a steep downward spiral, what with Ulthuan barely having any fields to grow food on and the HE being near constantly engaged in costly warfare.

    That alone shows trying to have a "real" all-out war between those races would be way too dependent on author bias rather than someone trying to simulate such an engagement.
  • manuelpsmanuelps Registered Users Posts: 2,820
    This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

    Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

    If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    manpersal said:

    This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

    Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

    If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..

    Ulthuan cut off from outside supplies would just starve, its just not build to support a viable population on its own. Too many mountains and barren areas.
  • Fingolfin_the-GoldenFingolfin_the-Golden Registered Users Posts: 4,724
    The elves would crush the humans.
    Easy peasy.
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • damon40000damon40000 Registered Users Posts: 1,500
    garden elves ofcourse, their pointy hats are menacing
    BsFG dwarf
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 1,767
    Attrition would win it for the humans.
  • manuelpsmanuelps Registered Users Posts: 2,820
    edited August 2021

    manpersal said:

    This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

    Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

    If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..

    Ulthuan cut off from outside supplies would just starve, its just not build to support a viable population on its own. Too many mountains and barren areas.
    Isn't Uthuan supposed to be actually self-sustained? At least it has been until the previous king opened trade with the Old World. Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that for HE trade is more a diplomacy tool than an actual need.

    Edit: I found the quote in the wiki, it seems it comes from their 8th Ed army book.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,453
    I don’t buy the common point repeated in this thread that the humans are incapable of defeating a HE or DE army on land and must rely on a guerrilla war of attrition.
    MarcusLivius: You are indeed a lord of entitlement.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,854
    Humans. If given a common enemy, the human nations would quickly unite, wheras the High, Wood and Dark elves have as much chance of fighting the humans as they have fighting one anouther.
    Numbers and technology are also on the humans' side, and while the elves may be faster, a lot of the human forces have very heavy armour.
    I can't see any instance where the elves would win.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,346
    I will go with Elves.

    @SaintCorn


  • manuelpsmanuelps Registered Users Posts: 2,820

    I will go with Elves.

    @SaintCorn


    This was the quote I was referencing, thank you.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,854
    SaintCorn said:


    After any High Elf Colonies are seized, those countries would basically become mostly superfluous or would start infighting over spoils or historical disputes. Dark Elf raids will occur every once in a while, but that won't really affect them all that much.

    Or they'd cross the Far Sea and put the dark elves in their place.
This discussion has been closed.