Humans vs Elves: Which race would win in an all out war?

XxXScorpionXxX

The Empire joins with the Kingdoms of Bretonnia, Kislev and the Southern Realms against the combined forces of the High, Wood and Dark Elves.

Who would come out on top assuming no other races interfere.

Would it be a global scale war the likes of which have not been seen since the great sundering? Or would the Elves, with superior magic, Dragons, and Navies just run over the Human races?

Note if you feel Elves are still a mismatch to the European powers then you can add Araby, Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Albion and Norsca to the mix.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Whoever the author says so.

ROMOBOY

Humans. Assuming that the war would last decades due to the sheer size of it, Elves will be outnumbered severely.

NemoTheElf101

The Witcher already answered this question. Unless if the Elves can end it within a decade or so, they will lose to sheer attrition.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.

6nieve6

Elves will win all the battles during the first years

Human will win war due to attrition

Vanilla_Gorilla

6nieve6 said:

Elves will win all the battles during the first years

Chaos will win war due to attrition

Fix'd.

Blacksphemy

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.

...*looks at Sigmar, myrmidia, and ulric*...🧐

6nieve6

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

6nieve6 said:

Elves will win all the battles during the first years

Chaos will win war due to attrition

Fix'd.

True

Maelas

Elves would utterly slaughter Mankind so hard it wouldn't even be funny. They are crushingly outmatched in any single criteria that matters, with their only advantage being numbers and maybe Grail Knights being able to stalemate Swordmasters, Phoenix Guards or Blackguards, and that's a maybe.

Elvenkind strength is that they are excessively top-loaded. Not only is their baseline warrior better than a baseline human warrior, the best of what Elves can muster is leagues above the best of mankind. Like, who's humanity best fighter ? Scharzweim got his ass handed to him by a generic Bretonnian Paladin, so Louencoeur is the peak of humanity. Tyrion annihilate him, and so does Malekith and Orion.

Now, about magic. Humanity have the Fey, Gelt, Elspeth and that fire wizard that lost the title of patriarch to Gelt. All of those but the Fey lose to a generic Archmage. Now, you add Teclis, Morathi and Ariel to the mix, and yeah, three Nagash-tier spellcasters, humanity is a disintegrated spot on the ground in a month.

Numbers might win attrition, but Magic is so absolutely powerful in Warhammer that your numbers become meaningless if the opposing army can incinerate a whole regiment with a snap of their finger. And Teclis and Morathi definitely can do this.

Magic is king, and humanity cannot even dream of equaling Elves there.

Loupi_

Elves very very easily, but if you add cathay to the human side humanity could have a shot.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Blacksphemy said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

Beyond that this is a complete no contest. The Dark and High Elves are pretty much the two most powerful forces in Warhammer outside of Chaos. And the Wood Elves have gods on their side.

...*looks at Sigmar, myrmidia, and ulric*...🧐

None of those take physical form.

SaintCorn

Alright, just humans vs just elves.

So, including all factions of elves in the lore, Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Laurelorn/Eonir/Weird Wood Elf cosplay of High Elves.

And all factions of Humans in the lore, Tilea, Estalia, Border Princes, Sartosa, Araby, Bretonnia, The Empire, Kislev, Norsca, Albion, Ind, Nippon, and Cathay.

Humans win.

Elves are fragmented and isolated from one another.
Laurelorn Forest would be defeated pretty quickly as they're basically Warhammer Lichtenstein.
Athel Loren is much more pertinent and imposing until it becomes winter when Orion dies, the tree spirits disappear, and the forest basically just decides to not do anything. Because they're so isolated from everyone, they will likely not be able to do any more than raiding attacks or just defend as humans set the trees on fire.

So, Wood Elves would probably survive a war, but they would be pretty battered and bruised. They would likely negotiate for peace separately and pretty early on as it would be pretty hard for them to oppose the entire Empire, all of Kislev, all of Bretonnia, all of Estalia, all of Tilea, and any other nation that joins the dogpile in time.

The High Elves would basically lose all of their trading income as every viable trading partner has declared war on them.
The dwarfs could be traded with via Barak Varr as long as none of those High Elf ships get caught by any navies of Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Araby, Sartosa, and the Border Princes (with their one dinghy). Now, Ulthuan itself will never be touched for the entirety of the war, but most High Elf colonies would be seized particularly since their navy will be stuck defending their homeland.

The Dark Elves would be the least affected of all the Elven races. they would likely loot and raze any New World Colonies, Skeggi, and potentially Sudenburg. Honestly, the Dark Elf homeland has almost no chance of actually being attacked or harmed in any meaningful way. So, the Dark Elves would likely take the opportunity to potentially stab the High Elves in the back which would essentially end the War.

Even if we assume that there is absolutely no infighting between Dark Elves and High Elves, the situation would just be a giant Naval stalemate as Ulthuan's trade economy presumably either became heavily reliant on Dark Elf trade or until their trade economy basically completely collapsed.

Albion would likely be seized by the Dark Elves, High Elves or some combined force of them. This would likely lead to some campaign of Guerilla warfare of some sort as that's what knock-off fantasy celts would do.

The various Southern Realm factions would likely not contribute all that much to the war other than some Naval power. Estalia, Tilea, and the Border Princes would likely start infighting pretty soon into the war as that is basically all that they do.

In the East, it basically would be a complete sweep for Humanity merely for the fact that, there are just a few underpopulated High Elf colonies facing off against the combined forces of Cathay, Nippon, and Ind.
After any High Elf Colonies are seized, those countries would basically become mostly superfluous or would start infighting over spoils or historical disputes. Dark Elf raids will occur every once in a while, but that won't really affect them all that much.

TLDR, Elves lose the war, but aren't horribly affected.
High Elves have a slightly faster decline now.
Dark Elves end up being the most powerful Elf group left.
Laurelorn is burned.
Wood Elves are alive, but a bit sad about the charred trees.
Albion is a bog on fire instead of being a regular bog.
Humans are basically unaffected with no major losses other than every navy except the far eastern ones took a beating.

Bloodydagger

Elves easy.

Valkaar

^^More or less agree with Saint Corn.

I don’t see the humans mustering a navy capable of assaulting Ulthuan or Naggarond with all the fleets and Black Arks.

But I ALSO don’t see the Elves having the population/supply chain to actually occupy any human territory without spreading themselves comically thin.

Like, even if an Elven army defeats an Empire army on the beaches of the Old World… how do the Elves have any hope of pacifying/occupying any of that land… especially over time all over the world?

The Elves would be permanently fighting a global Vietnam, without the population/sheer force to deal with any kind of mass asymmetrical warfare.

Army vs Army, Elves win. Navy vs Navy, Elves win. But the war would quickly devolve into Army vs guerrillas…which the Elves wouldn’t be able to handle over time.

Archmages can’t cast spells if they’re randomly shot in the back by a Handgunner in a bell tower while the Archmage was having lunch in a ‘pacified’ city.

Kislevite witches randomly freezing occupied wells.

Bretonnians peasants intentionally spreading pox in occupied city halls.

Empire engineers setting mines at night along Elven patrol routes.

Plenty of fighting/resistance would take place outside of armies/battles…and the Elves would be completely incapable of monitoring/controlling/deterring it all.

6nieve6

It's hard to gauge the real elven forces

Teclis only took two archmages with him when he went to help humans to create the Imperial Colleges. He also only took 300 swordmasters as his bodyguards during Storm of Chaos.

So...pretty powerful but the numbers are laughable. Elves can win battles but it's impossible for them to control territory

arthadaw

Do the Human follower of Chaos join the human in this fight ?

Also I don't think it's impossible that Ulthuan doesn't get sacked, at least partially, Grom the Paunch did it already and the Greenskin Navy is worse than that of the Bretonnian, Empire, Chaos

Grba

The Elves have quality on their side,but the humans have the numbers,in the long run I think that the humans would grind them out.

ArneSo

Humans of course. Elves are a dying race.

ShiroAmakusa75

The Dark Elves are only a "superpower" thanks to absolutely terrible and careless writing that ignores that they should have gone extinct long ago from the completely dysfunctional way their society and economy is set up to the barren and hostile environment they're living in and the endless string of bad decisions made by their leadership.

HE as well would have been on a steep downward spiral, what with Ulthuan barely having any fields to grow food on and the HE being near constantly engaged in costly warfare.

That alone shows trying to have a "real" all-out war between those races would be way too dependent on author bias rather than someone trying to simulate such an engagement.

manpersal

This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..

ShiroAmakusa75

manpersal said:

This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..

Ulthuan cut off from outside supplies would just starve, its just not build to support a viable population on its own. Too many mountains and barren areas.

Fingolfin_the-Golden

The elves would crush the humans.
Easy peasy.

damon40000

garden elves ofcourse, their pointy hats are menacing

The_real_FAUST

Attrition would win it for the humans.

manpersal

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

manpersal said:

This would be a Crimean War scenario, none of the sides would be able to seriously hurt the other.

Ather Loren, givem its nature could probably hold undefinitely fighting a guerrilla war and the other elves could strike where the enemy is weaker thanks to their uncontested naval superiority but would be obliged to retreat as soon as the human armies show up.

If the elves went for full invasion, then humans would eventually win, the elves may be superior warriors, but they'll still die to bullets, cannons, etc..

Ulthuan cut off from outside supplies would just starve, its just not build to support a viable population on its own. Too many mountains and barren areas.

Isn't Uthuan supposed to be actually self-sustained? At least it has been until the previous king opened trade with the Old World. Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that for HE trade is more a diplomacy tool than an actual need.

Edit: I found the quote in the wiki, it seems it comes from their 8th Ed army book.

Commissar_G

I don’t buy the common point repeated in this thread that the humans are incapable of defeating a HE or DE army on land and must rely on a guerrilla war of attrition.

Man2008kind

Humans. If given a common enemy, the human nations would quickly unite, wheras the High, Wood and Dark elves have as much chance of fighting the humans as they have fighting one anouther.
Numbers and technology are also on the humans' side, and while the elves may be faster, a lot of the human forces have very heavy armour.
I can't see any instance where the elves would win.

Maedrethnir

I will go with Elves.

@SaintCorn

manpersal

Maedrethnir said:

I will go with Elves.

@SaintCorn

This was the quote I was referencing, thank you.

Man2008kind

SaintCorn said:

After any High Elf Colonies are seized, those countries would basically become mostly superfluous or would start infighting over spoils or historical disputes. Dark Elf raids will occur every once in a while, but that won't really affect them all that much.

Or they'd cross the Far Sea and put the dark elves in their place.