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Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Fun question! There are variables at play like, are the not exactly straight-edged Humans allowed to take part? Like, if they no longer have skin or perhaps what if they worshipped daemons and such? Humans I'd say are roughly cut 50/50 between following Order and following Chaos after all so I think it's 100% fine to include them, or else it'd be half of Humanity versus half of the Elves. Also, if the undead are allowed then you've got Khemri fighting the Elves too, albiet I'd understand if they're not quite included.
From a logical perspective, Humanity for sure, it's got the numbers, it's got the technology and half of them have the favour of the Gods, the REAL gods, not the far less powerful Elf ones, proper CHAOS Gods. Buuuuuuuut, I kind of think Elves would win, just because of how bad Elf lore is, TBH.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. Also Fay only dispelled the magic, which allowed the knights to beat the troops and the monsters. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. Also Fay only dispelled the magic, which allowed the knights to beat the troops and the monsters. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
tbh at this point i dont see why you would respond to him lol he thinks someone being chocked out and going limp is winning a fight.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
Cities and they have done without distraction on multiple occasions that you focus on one example is your problem. Yeah so sure an Elven goddess will chose humans over her people highly unlikely especially when her dudes Teclis and Alith Anar fight on the side of the elves
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
Cities and they have done without distraction on multiple occasions that you focus on one example is your problem. Yeah so sure an Elven goddess will chose humans over her people highly unlikely especially when her dudes Teclis and Alith Anar fight on the side of the elves
Yeah, and norse barbarians have ransacked most of Nagarronth, with no magic involved btw since they're Khorne followers. Lileath didn't withdraw her support from Bretonnians even on occasions when they fought the Wood Elves so go figure.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. Also Fay only dispelled the magic, which allowed the knights to beat the troops and the monsters. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
tbh at this point i dont see why you would respond to him lol he thinks someone being chocked out and going limp is winning a fight.
You are the ones claiming that using subterfuge is not wining
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer Elves are called an Elder Race, the same slot with the Dawi and Lizardmen, whom are all considered diminished or fading powers. Warhammer has the same exact set-up where humankind is poised to become the main player on the block, a place solidified by Sigmar's own apotheosis. The story makes it clear that Elves are on their way out at some point, that's why the High Elves choose to work with the Empire.
The point is that the scenario of Elves v Humans has been played out before, and Elves tend to not do well. Warhammer is no different, especially since the Elven factions are trying to kill each other or ignore each other half the time.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hardcarried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
We don't even need to use End Times; you said yourself that the Dark Elves are somehow thriving in the army books while the High Elves are fading. Biologically speaking, there are no differences between Asur and Druchii, the distinction is purely cultural, so both Elves experience the same hardships and issues when it comes to reproduction. It all comes down to their approaches.
Yet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
Not to mention that even in this scenario, the Dark Elves, a race of selfish opportunists who want to take down the High Elves.
Even if they were allies in this situation, they would very likely exploit the fact that Ulthuan's navy will be the main defense for Ulthuan and allow it to be weakened by human attacks to make future invasions easier.
The Dark Elves would focus on easy targets to raid like the human colonies to gain resources that are relatively undefended while leaving most of the strain and losses on the High Elves.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
We don't even need to use End Times; you said yourself that the Dark Elves are somehow thriving in the army books while the High Elves are fading. Biologically speaking, there are no differences between Asur and Druchii, the distinction is purely cultural, so both Elves experience the same hardships and issues when it comes to reproduction. It all comes down to their approaches.
Yet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
Wonder how most of western civilization have negative population growt and 3d world countries have a positive one
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
Not to mention that even in this scenario, the Dark Elves, a race of selfish opportunists who want to take down the High Elves.
Even if they were allies in this situation, they would very likely exploit the fact that Ulthuan's navy will be the main defense for Ulthuan and allow it to be weakened by human attacks to make future invasions easier.
The Dark Elves would focus on easy targets to raid like the human colonies to gain resources that are relatively undefended while leaving most of the strain and losses on the High Elves.
If we are talking about how faction would interact with eachother humans would not work that well either especially with Norscan
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
We don't even need to use End Times; you said yourself that the Dark Elves are somehow thriving in the army books while the High Elves are fading. Biologically speaking, there are no differences between Asur and Druchii, the distinction is purely cultural, so both Elves experience the same hardships and issues when it comes to reproduction. It all comes down to their approaches.
Yet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
Wonder how most of western civilization have negative population growt and 3d world countries have a positive one
I will give you a hint.
It's due to the lack of having a murder night where Witches go out and murder anyone they can get their hands on.
Or the environment is actually useful instead of being a cold, frigid, and rocky nightmare.
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
We don't even need to use End Times; you said yourself that the Dark Elves are somehow thriving in the army books while the High Elves are fading. Biologically speaking, there are no differences between Asur and Druchii, the distinction is purely cultural, so both Elves experience the same hardships and issues when it comes to reproduction. It all comes down to their approaches.
Yet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
Wonder how most of western civilization have negative population growt and 3d world countries have a positive one
High cost of living and hyper-consumption, essentially, but the High Elves don't live in that kind of society. Their way of life has more or less been the same since Aenarion's day, and they had no issues with keeping a healthy population during their worst wars in their history. It's only during a long period of peace that they somehow see a sharp decline, which isn't really what happens in real life.
It's just bad writing. The idea of a noble, wise, powerful nation from yesteryear fading away is an old trope, and GW tried to implement it in an extremely underdeveloped way.
It's due to the lack of having a murder night where Witches go out and murder anyone they can get their hands on.
Or the environment is actually useful instead of being a cold, frigid, and rocky nightmare.
Death rate is high as well in most of those coutries and a lot of them do not live in a very fruitful lands. Also a hint they don't have magic or an armada plundering all around the world
Lord of the Rings: Humans are fated to take over the world as the Elves diminish.
Witcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
Nothing to do with warhammer elves
Warhammer elves are also a dying race, even their own armybook says so.
Do i need to post the quote from the army book that say the DE are thriving and are doing it by enslaving humans
Do I need to post a quote from a HE army book that says HE are dying out? DE are doing better, but they're a much smaller force in comparison and their higher birth rate is compensated by them murdering each other on a regular basis. Tbh the elf alliance is hard carried by HE, they make up for like 2/3 of its power.
Pretty much every writer for Fantasy has stated that Dark Elf society would not function in real life and would've/should've died out centuries ago. They're protected by plot armor and rectons vis a vis End Times, not any consistent laws or narrative within the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
So if we are not using ET why is an chaos invasion of Naggaroth used as argument
We don't even need to use End Times; you said yourself that the Dark Elves are somehow thriving in the army books while the High Elves are fading. Biologically speaking, there are no differences between Asur and Druchii, the distinction is purely cultural, so both Elves experience the same hardships and issues when it comes to reproduction. It all comes down to their approaches.
Yet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
Wonder how most of western civilization have negative population growt and 3d world countries have a positive one
High cost of living and hyper-consumption, essentially, but the High Elves don't live in that kind of society. Their way of life has more or less been the same since Aenarion's day, and they had no issues with keeping a healthy population during their worst wars in their history. It's only during a long period of peace that they somehow see a sharp decline, which isn't really what happens in real life.
It's just bad writing. The idea of a noble, wise, powerful nation from yesteryear fading away is an old trope, and GW tried to implement it in an extremely underdeveloped way.
So according to you HE are worse of then they should be and DE are better so it evens out . Anyways all of this is beside the point
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also, that's what happens when Dark Elves do not distract the bretonnian armies to raid.
"The Mists of Death In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
The best caster of Bretonnia against some random DE raiders so much wow so impressive and they were wining till the Enchantress arrived Also don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
Not any less impressive than DElfs sneak raiding a few bretonnian towns when the armies are distracted by GS and beastmen. And I have big doubts about Lileath herself siding with the elves, she seems to prefer Bretonnians by now (which is understandable).
Cities and they have done without distraction on multiple occasions that you focus on one example is your problem. Yeah so sure an Elven goddess will chose humans over her people highly unlikely especially when her dudes Teclis and Alith Anar fight on the side of the elves
the elf goddess that caused the avatar of an elf god for messing with her humans in the past. She would stay out of it and still make grail knights and help the elves how she could but not going to stop the elfs from losing this
Again, no evidence on numbers or army set up. also, it's noted you're ignoring the fact that the major players are missing and large swathes of the population are out taking part in the Elf wars. It's the End Times, entire populations are moving South out of the Chaos Wastes. If you want to use this as an argument you need to apply some evidence to it.
a. No, Cannons cannot shoot Dragons out of the sky, they could if a Dragon landed but, no, they're not built for accuracy. b.
Miraculously however, in other parts of Naggaroth, some of the Dark Elven Lords knew better than to squabble amongst themselves over petty grudges whilst their entire kingdom crumbled into ruins. Upon the port-city of Karond Kar, at the north-eastern end of the Sea of Chills, the war-fleets of both Lokhir Fellheart and Drane Brackblood finally put aside their differences and joined forces to blockade the harbours from the impending armadas of Norscan longships bearing down upon the city. Though they made the coastal bay a graveyard of broken ships, there were simply far to many ships to sink and the Norscans eventually made landfall upon the harbours and shores of the city. Any chance to prove themselves different from the northern clans was lost shortly thereafter however. A mysterious earthquake rocked the city and brought down the outer walls. The cause was wondered at only briefly, as the sudden appearance of an entire Skaven army coming up from the city's underground catacombs marked the rat-men's entry in the last war of the Old World. Caught between the two marauding hosts, the city inhabitants were forced to die in the streets or to flee to open sea. With the loss of Karond Kar, three of the six major cities of Naggaroth had been conquered.[1c] The hordes of Chaos continued their march south, the loss of Karond Kar and Clar Karond having opened the way to Malekith's stronghold capital of Naggarond, and his mother Morathi's centre at Arnheim. Malekith's attention, however, was far afield in Ulthuan rather than on his burning kingdom, as he taunted Finubar, last Phoenix King of Ulthuan, into suicide as penance for denying Malekith his rightful throne.
Gives us an idea on numbers. We can also see a huge assault from the Skaven.
Though nearly one-third of Malekith's army was lost on the journey, the Witch King continued on with silent determination, going as far as to isolate himself from his generals. Some forty leagues short of Ghrond, Malekith's army was blocked by a massive horde of Daemons led by a mighty Bloodthirster of Khorne. Though powerful, the Witch King could not be denied entrance, and with the daemon's defeat, Malekith entered the Tower and found his mother. Morathi told her son that the End Times were nigh and that upon the shores of Ulthaun, not Naggaroth, that his destiny awaited him. Morathi's wisdom came with a significant caveat however. Though she did not deny the finality of the hour nor the rightfulness of his quest for the Phoenix Throne she could not sanction an invasion while Naggaroth burned behind them. She bluntly warned that should he pursue that path, should he return to the lands of his birth, it would destroy everything that had ever made him her son. Prideful to the last, Malekith abandoned his mother and gathered what remained of his entire people to set sail on a fleet of Warships so massive that it stretched from horizon to horizon. Thus upon the same hour that Teclis banished the daemons from the shores of Ulthuan did the last great host of Naggaroth embark upon their fleet of Black Arks. Without a backwards glance to his burning Kingdom, Malekith looked fixed upon the land of Ulthuan, determined that this time, there would be no going back.[3b]
Just humans you say?
c. If the HE can offer a better deal than having their rich's taken away then I'm sure they'd be tempted. Do you think Germany wanted the total annihilation of GB? That's not how wars work.
d. So, you choose to ignore the almost astronomical number different and go back to tech like it's all that matters? It wasn't tech that beat the Aztecs, it was diplomacy and intelligence. If the Aztecs had known what we know they would've immediately executed every Spaniard who entered the city. When it's 1000 to 1 muskets won't help you. I'm surprised I'm having to explain the idea of saying 'numbers wins' without context to anything else is a little strange.
Comments
"The Mists of Death
In the year 2518 IC, a Dark Elf fleet used the cover of unnaturally thick mists to land upon Bretonnia. As Dark Elf raiders scoured the seaside towns for riches and slaves, an army of noble knights amassed and attacked the invaders.
The mysterious fog grew tendrils and assailed both armies as a full Arcane Storm erupted. The Dark Elves, with their vast host of bound monsters, were winning the day until the Fay Enchantress arrived. She banished the fog with a blindingly powerful spell, before personally draining the Winds of Magic. Only a few Dark Elves would escape back to their ships..."
Superior elf magic and monsters not so superior.
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1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeFrom a logical perspective, Humanity for sure, it's got the numbers, it's got the technology and half of them have the favour of the Gods, the REAL gods, not the far less powerful Elf ones, proper CHAOS Gods. Buuuuuuuut, I kind of think Elves would win, just because of how bad Elf lore is, TBH.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAlso don't know which side she will be on since she serves an Elven goddess and knows it
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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1 · 4Disagree 1Agree- Report
3 · 2Disagree 3Agree- Report
2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 2Disagree AgreeWitcher: Elves lost a genocidal war and now exist as second-class citizens.
Dragon Age: Elves destroyed their own civilization, ended up enslaved, and still exist as a lower-class.
Warcraft: practically every Elven faction has faced extinction numerous times while human kingdoms keep rising.
Fantasy doesn't seem to favor Elves very much.
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2 · 1Disagree 2Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 2Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
3 · 2Disagree 3Agree- Report
3 · 2Disagree 3AgreeThe point is that the scenario of Elves v Humans has been played out before, and Elves tend to not do well. Warhammer is no different, especially since the Elven factions are trying to kill each other or ignore each other half the time.
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3 · 1Disagree 3Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 3Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2AgreeThis is what we call an elf cat.
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3 · 3Disagree 3Agree- Report
2 · 2Disagree 2Agree- Report
4 · 1Disagree 4AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeYet, the High Elves, whom generally lead safer lives, are more harmonious, have a flourishing economy, and live in a paradise are experiencing a population loss, while the Dark Elves, who live to scheme and kill each other while planning yet another mass invasion of Ulthuan in the middle of a frozen wasteland, are somehow flourishing. That makes no sense. Further to this, one of the High Elves' monarchs is a powerful priestess/icon/avatar of the Elven mother goddess, while the Dark Elves have the patronage of gods of war and slaughter.
The Dark Elves are interesting, but they are by no means consistent or sensible or as deep as people keep making them out to be.
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2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeEven if they were allies in this situation, they would very likely exploit the fact that Ulthuan's navy will be the main defense for Ulthuan and allow it to be weakened by human attacks to make future invasions easier.
The Dark Elves would focus on easy targets to raid like the human colonies to gain resources that are relatively undefended while leaving most of the strain and losses on the High Elves.
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3 · 4Disagree 3AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 3Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeIt's due to the lack of having a murder night where Witches go out and murder anyone they can get their hands on.
Or the environment is actually useful instead of being a cold, frigid, and rocky nightmare.
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2 · 4Disagree 2AgreeIt's just bad writing. The idea of a noble, wise, powerful nation from yesteryear fading away is an old trope, and GW tried to implement it in an extremely underdeveloped way.
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2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeIt's due to the lack of having a murder night where Witches go out and murder anyone they can get their hands on.
Or the environment is actually useful instead of being a cold, frigid, and rocky nightmare.
Death rate is high as well in most of those coutries and a lot of them do not live in a very fruitful lands. Also a hint they don't have magic or an armada plundering all around the world So according to you HE are worse of then they should be and DE are better so it evens out . Anyways all of this is beside the point
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · 3Disagree Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1Agreea. No, Cannons cannot shoot Dragons out of the sky, they could if a Dragon landed but, no, they're not built for accuracy.
b.
Miraculously however, in other parts of Naggaroth, some of the Dark Elven Lords knew better than to squabble amongst themselves over petty grudges whilst their entire kingdom crumbled into ruins. Upon the port-city of Karond Kar, at the north-eastern end of the Sea of Chills, the war-fleets of both Lokhir Fellheart and Drane Brackblood finally put aside their differences and joined forces to blockade the harbours from the impending armadas of Norscan longships bearing down upon the city. Though they made the coastal bay a graveyard of broken ships, there were simply far to many ships to sink and the Norscans eventually made landfall upon the harbours and shores of the city. Any chance to prove themselves different from the northern clans was lost shortly thereafter however. A mysterious earthquake rocked the city and brought down the outer walls. The cause was wondered at only briefly, as the sudden appearance of an entire Skaven army coming up from the city's underground catacombs marked the rat-men's entry in the last war of the Old World. Caught between the two marauding hosts, the city inhabitants were forced to die in the streets or to flee to open sea. With the loss of Karond Kar, three of the six major cities of Naggaroth had been conquered.[1c] The hordes of Chaos continued their march south, the loss of Karond Kar and Clar Karond having opened the way to Malekith's stronghold capital of Naggarond, and his mother Morathi's centre at Arnheim. Malekith's attention, however, was far afield in Ulthuan rather than on his burning kingdom, as he taunted Finubar, last Phoenix King of Ulthuan, into suicide as penance for denying Malekith his rightful throne.
Gives us an idea on numbers. We can also see a huge assault from the Skaven.
Though nearly one-third of Malekith's army was lost on the journey, the Witch King continued on with silent determination, going as far as to isolate himself from his generals. Some forty leagues short of Ghrond, Malekith's army was blocked by a massive horde of Daemons led by a mighty Bloodthirster of Khorne. Though powerful, the Witch King could not be denied entrance, and with the daemon's defeat, Malekith entered the Tower and found his mother. Morathi told her son that the End Times were nigh and that upon the shores of Ulthaun, not Naggaroth, that his destiny awaited him. Morathi's wisdom came with a significant caveat however. Though she did not deny the finality of the hour nor the rightfulness of his quest for the Phoenix Throne she could not sanction an invasion while Naggaroth burned behind them. She bluntly warned that should he pursue that path, should he return to the lands of his birth, it would destroy everything that had ever made him her son. Prideful to the last, Malekith abandoned his mother and gathered what remained of his entire people to set sail on a fleet of Warships so massive that it stretched from horizon to horizon. Thus upon the same hour that Teclis banished the daemons from the shores of Ulthuan did the last great host of Naggaroth embark upon their fleet of Black Arks. Without a backwards glance to his burning Kingdom, Malekith looked fixed upon the land of Ulthuan, determined that this time, there would be no going back.[3b]
Just humans you say?
c. If the HE can offer a better deal than having their rich's taken away then I'm sure they'd be tempted. Do you think Germany wanted the total annihilation of GB? That's not how wars work.
d. So, you choose to ignore the almost astronomical number different and go back to tech like it's all that matters? It wasn't tech that beat the Aztecs, it was diplomacy and intelligence. If the Aztecs had known what we know they would've immediately executed every Spaniard who entered the city. When it's 1000 to 1 muskets won't help you. I'm surprised I'm having to explain the idea of saying 'numbers wins' without context to anything else is a little strange.
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1 · 3Disagree 1AgreeThat doesn't mean they're all on their deathbed though does it? A pretty meaningless point especially if they eventually die out in a 100,000 years.
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1 · 3Disagree 1Agree