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Humans vs Elves: Which race would win in an all out war?

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  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828
    edited August 2021

    Simply hyperbole. She's not a particularly strong caster by Warhammer standards. Top tier, but not at the top. Not by a long way.

    Bahahha

    That doesn't even say she knows how to destroy it, only that she'll try. Well, she won't succeed, lol. "Most destructive magic possible" is a too abstract of a claim when she doesn't show anything comparable to Mazda or Kroak in practice.

    Yeah there being no doubt means she will fail .You are right it states that her knowledge of destructive magic is powerful enough to destroy the world.
    yes its unbinding the vortex

    congrats thats what she knows how to do
    Why does it matter how she has the means

    >There is no doubt she will try to use it. There is also no doubt she would fail, lol. She can't even get rid of the daemon army besieging her tower in ET, Malekith needs to come in. Kroak clapped daemon armies like that all day long. What is the most destructive thing she actually accomplished?

    In the Bad times the world ended didn't it with no small help from her
    So, you can either continue with this bizarre Dark Elves are the strongest at everything ever schtick, or do literally anything else that would be a more beneficial use of time.

    You are the ones with slann are the most powerful thing ever shitik i am the one with they are comparable shitik
    You mean she runs into the vortex and randomly disrupts the ritual to then get eaten by Slaanesh? So much destruction, much wow.
    Yeah that it took Caledor Dragontamer and Slaanesh to stop her shows how weak she is
    I am sure every time a LM army took a slann as leader they auto won.Anyways i am done with you guys who think a generic slann would be a match for any of the named most powerful characters since it is offtopic.
    It's not any different from DE fanboyism thinking they autowin vs humans cause magic, when the most powerful DE characters lose to an orc warboss.

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    Simply hyperbole. She's not a particularly strong caster by Warhammer standards. Top tier, but not at the top. Not by a long way.

    Bahahha

    That doesn't even say she knows how to destroy it, only that she'll try. Well, she won't succeed, lol. "Most destructive magic possible" is a too abstract of a claim when she doesn't show anything comparable to Mazda or Kroak in practice.

    Yeah there being no doubt means she will fail .You are right it states that her knowledge of destructive magic is powerful enough to destroy the world.
    yes its unbinding the vortex

    congrats thats what she knows how to do
    Why does it matter how she has the means

    >There is no doubt she will try to use it. There is also no doubt she would fail, lol. She can't even get rid of the daemon army besieging her tower in ET, Malekith needs to come in. Kroak clapped daemon armies like that all day long. What is the most destructive thing she actually accomplished?

    In the Bad times the world ended didn't it with no small help from her
    So, you can either continue with this bizarre Dark Elves are the strongest at everything ever schtick, or do literally anything else that would be a more beneficial use of time.

    You are the ones with slann are the most powerful thing ever shitik i am the one with they are comparable shitik
    You mean she runs into the vortex and randomly disrupts the ritual to then get eaten by Slaanesh? So much destruction, much wow.
    Yeah that it took Caledor Dragontamer and Slaanesh to stop her shows how weak she is
    I am sure every time a LM army took a slann as leader they auto won.Anyways i am done with you guys who think a generic slann would be a match for any of the named most powerful characters since it is offtopic.
    It's not any different from DE fanboyism thinking they autowin vs humans cause magic, when the most powerful DE characters lose to and orc warboss.
    I think elves would win a war I don't think they would win every battle.And magic is not the only field where I think they have advantage

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    The most powerful race of the setting is of course Skaven.

    Skaven can move moon-sized celestial objects and even destroy them and it requires no expense of power on their part, just utilizing their science. And the best thing is that this is not propaganda in the fluff, that's something they actually accomplished. If the Skaven aimed their Moon tractor beam at Ulthuan, they could just yank the entire island out of its place and turn it upside down, instantly obliterating all HE on it. Even first generation Slan can't match that power.

  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828
    edited August 2021

    The most powerful race of the setting is of course Skaven.

    Skaven can move moon-sized celestial objects and even destroy them and it requires no expense of power on their part, just utilizing their science. And the best thing is that this is not propaganda in the fluff, that's something they actually accomplished. If the Skaven aimed their Moon tractor beam at Ulthuan, they could just yank the entire island out of its place and turn it upside down, instantly obliterating all HE on it. Even first generation Slan can't match that power.

    Tbh Skaven and Humans are the only two races that are not in decline or static. They actually grow more powerful and develop new things, while elves stay in place and only get weaker. Greenskins are doing well but don't really develop, while Chaos and Undead are a special case since they're mostly "recruited" from humans and are also doing quite well, but without any major advancements. Human adaptability is another big advantage they have. They have the capacity to outdo even elven navy if they spend some time developing their naval tech. Dwarfs kind of already have better ships in their ironclads, they just don't produce enough of them to compete and humans are known for copying the dwarf tech and then doing more crazy things with it the dwarfs themselves would need centuries to approve.

  • SaintCorn#3148SaintCorn#3148 Registered Users Posts: 2,877

    Simply hyperbole. She's not a particularly strong caster by Warhammer standards. Top tier, but not at the top. Not by a long way.

    Bahahha

    That doesn't even say she knows how to destroy it, only that she'll try. Well, she won't succeed, lol. "Most destructive magic possible" is a too abstract of a claim when she doesn't show anything comparable to Mazda or Kroak in practice.

    Yeah there being no doubt means she will fail .You are right it states that her knowledge of destructive magic is powerful enough to destroy the world.
    yes its unbinding the vortex

    congrats thats what she knows how to do
    Why does it matter how she has the means

    >There is no doubt she will try to use it. There is also no doubt she would fail, lol. She can't even get rid of the daemon army besieging her tower in ET, Malekith needs to come in. Kroak clapped daemon armies like that all day long. What is the most destructive thing she actually accomplished?

    In the Bad times the world ended didn't it with no small help from her
    So, you can either continue with this bizarre Dark Elves are the strongest at everything ever schtick, or do literally anything else that would be a more beneficial use of time.

    You are the ones with slann are the most powerful thing ever shitik i am the one with they are comparable shitik
    You mean she runs into the vortex and randomly disrupts the ritual to then get eaten by Slaanesh? So much destruction, much wow.
    Yeah that it took Caledor Dragontamer and Slaanesh to stop her shows how weak she is
    I am sure every time a LM army took a slann as leader they auto won.Anyways i am done with you guys who think a generic slann would be a match for any of the named most powerful characters since it is offtopic.
    Yeah, a little kid throwing a tantrum in a china shop and smashing everything to bits shows the power of toddlers.
    Trowing a tantrum i am just done cause you are obviously not arguing in good faith and trying to troll me with lame baits
    You were arguing in good faith?

    You waved away every logistical problem of the dark elves by saying they're like a third world country.

    You tried to claim, with incredibly flawed logic and a lack of any description, that Morathi was stronger than a Slann because she hired people to kill a sleeping one.

    That would be like saying an empire handgunner is better than a Swordmaster of Hoeth because the handgunner can shoot a maimed Swordmaster of Hoeth and kill him.

    Or more simply

    Indiana Jones was the better swordsman in this scene.

    So, yeah, trying to claim that everyone is arguing in bad faith against me is more than a little ridiculous in this case.
    Particularly when there's over ten pages of similar examples.

  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,798
    Skaven and humans are powerful in WHFB for pretty much the exact same reasons.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    The most powerful race of the setting is of course Skaven.

    Skaven can move moon-sized celestial objects and even destroy them and it requires no expense of power on their part, just utilizing their science. And the best thing is that this is not propaganda in the fluff, that's something they actually accomplished. If the Skaven aimed their Moon tractor beam at Ulthuan, they could just yank the entire island out of its place and turn it upside down, instantly obliterating all HE on it. Even first generation Slan can't match that power.

    Tbh Skaven and Humans are the only two races that are not in decline or static. They actually grow more powerful and develop new things, while elves stay in place and only get weaker. Greenskins are doing well but don't really develop, while Chaos and Undead are a special case since they're mostly "recruited" from humans and are also doing quite well, but without any major advancements. Human adaptability is another big advantage they have. They have the capacity to outdo even elven navy if they spend some time developing their naval tech. Dwarfs kind of already have better ships in their ironclads, they just don't produce enough of them to compete and humans are known for copying the dwarf tech and then doing more crazy things with it the dwarfs themselves would need centuries to approve.
    As I said before, the Bretonnian navy is already one of the strongest navies in Warhammer and if Bretonnia wasn't shackled by the machinations of a filthy elf god, who knows what they'd have accomplished by now on land.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,798

    If you don't want to continue the discussion that's fine, but you don't get to claim others are acting in bad faith simply for disagreeing with you. People are allowed to disagree.

    Think I can see the difference when someone Is simply disagreeing with me and when he is being provocative to try and get a reaction
    No one in this thread is doing the latter. No one.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437
    edited August 2021
    Del
    Post edited by HisShadowBG#8316 on

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Coldrage20#5180Coldrage20#5180 Registered Users Posts: 346

    The most powerful race of the setting is of course Skaven.

    Skaven can move moon-sized celestial objects and even destroy them and it requires no expense of power on their part, just utilizing their science. And the best thing is that this is not propaganda in the fluff, that's something they actually accomplished. If the Skaven aimed their Moon tractor beam at Ulthuan, they could just yank the entire island out of its place and turn it upside down, instantly obliterating all HE on it. Even first generation Slan can't match that power.

    Tbh Skaven and Humans are the only two races that are not in decline or static. They actually grow more powerful and develop new things, while elves stay in place and only get weaker. Greenskins are doing well but don't really develop, while Chaos and Undead are a special case since they're mostly "recruited" from humans and are also doing quite well, but without any major advancements. Human adaptability is another big advantage they have. They have the capacity to outdo even elven navy if they spend some time developing their naval tech. Dwarfs kind of already have better ships in their ironclads, they just don't produce enough of them to compete and humans are known for copying the dwarf tech and then doing more crazy things with it the dwarfs themselves would need centuries to approve.
    As I said before, the Bretonnian navy is already one of the strongest navies in Warhammer and if Bretonnia wasn't shackled by the machinations of a filthy elf god, who knows what they'd have accomplished by now on land.
    Some older lore say Nippon is the strongest navy on its side of the world and that only 1 in 6 dark elf raids survive
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828
    edited August 2021
    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."
    • Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    • Nagash created Necromancy.
    • There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    • Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    • Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    • https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    • Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.
    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Coldrage20#5180Coldrage20#5180 Registered Users Posts: 346

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    Literally any human mage could become a necro what do you mean lol
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    Necromancers are amongst the most cursed of all those who practice the magical arts, for they have damned their souls and exchanged their humanity for the ability to raise the dead and command them to wage war upon the living.

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    Necromancers are amongst the most cursed of all those who practice the magical arts, for they have damned their souls and exchanged their humanity for the ability to raise the dead and command them to wage war upon the living.
    As a person follows the dark path of a Necromancer, they become ever more detached from their mortal roots. Morbidly questing after the secrets of death, a Necromancer who is deeply steeped in the lore of the dead stands on the threshold between worlds, neither wholly alive, nor one of the Undead.[1a]

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    If necromancers aren't considered human, then Morathi isn't an elf since she's warped from meddling with chaos powers.
    Schreiber was able to overpower Be'lakor with his magic, which is impressive for a noname human wizard to say the least. He might be dead, but it's not confirmed. ET drivel still makes more sense than most of DE lore tbh. "Scrolls that binding beast dude" which created a new powerful type of magic that no elf could and even Teclis acknowledged it.

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    If necromancers aren't considered human, then Morathi isn't an elf since she's warped from meddling with chaos powers.
    Schreiber was able to overpower Be'lakor with his magic, which is impressive for a noname human wizard to say the least. He might be dead, but it's not confirmed. ET drivel still makes more sense than most of DE lore tbh. "Scrolls that binding beast dude" which created a new powerful type of magic that no elf could and even Teclis acknowledged it.
    Good for him creating spells and all

    It just what wh lore says about necromancers if you think they would fight on humanity side fine
    Max is companion of the most Mary Sue character in the universe certainly not a no name human

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Coldrage20#5180Coldrage20#5180 Registered Users Posts: 346

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    If necromancers aren't considered human, then Morathi isn't an elf since she's warped from meddling with chaos powers.
    Schreiber was able to overpower Be'lakor with his magic, which is impressive for a noname human wizard to say the least. He might be dead, but it's not confirmed. ET drivel still makes more sense than most of DE lore tbh. "Scrolls that binding beast dude" which created a new powerful type of magic that no elf could and even Teclis acknowledged it.
    Good for him not really
    It just what wh lore says about necromancers if you think they would fight on humanity side fine
    Max is companion of the most Mary Sue character in the universe certainly not a no name human
    *looks at Gelt in the end times* hmmmmm guess he isnt human anymore summoned undead after all
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828
    edited August 2021

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    If necromancers aren't considered human, then Morathi isn't an elf since she's warped from meddling with chaos powers.
    Schreiber was able to overpower Be'lakor with his magic, which is impressive for a noname human wizard to say the least. He might be dead, but it's not confirmed. ET drivel still makes more sense than most of DE lore tbh. "Scrolls that binding beast dude" which created a new powerful type of magic that no elf could and even Teclis acknowledged it.
    Good for him not really
    It just what wh lore says about necromancers if you think they would fight on humanity side fine
    Max is companion of the most Mary Sue character in the universe certainly not a no name human
    It's not a matter if necromancers would fight for humans or not. It's that the gap between elf and human mages is exaggerated. Teclis is still stronger than any human mage save Nagash (who has transcended humanity long ago), but will elves be able to overpower humans with magic in actual battles? Not sure, human mages are also quite capable and most likely there are more of them. Would Teclis be able to take on several top human magic users at once? Probably not. Can an average elf mage take on 2-3 battle wizards? Again probably not.

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    As for human mages, in words of Teclis himself (who's obviously an arrogant **** like all HE are):

    "The reason that Kadon succeeded in binding monsters where other mages failed was a simple one: rather than attempting to suppress his catspaw's primal instincts, Kadon embraced it. Kadon's scrolls of binding therefore stand in testament to an uncomfortable truth: that a primitive mind might work wonders where the careful reasoning of a more sophisticated one would surely fail. This thought is uncomfortable for any Elf to entertain but, if Ulthuan is to endure, its loremasters can no longer underestimate the magic of humans simply because the humans themselves are inferior."

    Kadon created the scrolls of binding that allow you to summon and control monsters, which no elf managed to do.
    Nagash created Necromancy.
    There was a human wizard who created a flying fortress: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fozzrik%27s_Flying_Fortress
    Fay Enchantress can use all 8 winds like the elves.
    Kemmler invaded "uninvadvable" Athel Loren and caused a lot of trouble. He's basically a single guy vs an entire elven kingdom because his army is also raised by his magic.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Maximilian_Schreiber Maximilian Schreiber from G&F novels defeats freaking Be'lakor in a magical duel.
    Katarin is able to freeze the sea and an entire Norscan fleet with a single spell.

    So sure, human mages are weak and stand no chance against the elves.

    3 Undead characters one of whom utilized the crown of Nagash and was controlled/guided by him and eventually fell apart?The Fay Enchantress who is blessed and serves an Elven goddess

    So yeah Katrin is really the exception here
    You're talking about the wrong Kadon. Amber wizard Kadon never used the crown of Nagash (but he has a spell named after him). Schreiber defeating Be'lakor is a feat that is said to rival those of Teclis. Who's the third undead character? Did you mean Kadon (cause he's most definitely not). Kemmler, while being a VC character, is still a human mage, while I don't count him fighting on the side of humans he's an example of how powerful human mages can get.
    Think in the novels Be'lakor kills Max.And is Gotrek that kills/banishes Be'lakor and that is ET drivel
    Eh most necromancer can hardly be considered human
    Ok so scrolls that binding beast dude
    If necromancers aren't considered human, then Morathi isn't an elf since she's warped from meddling with chaos powers.
    Schreiber was able to overpower Be'lakor with his magic, which is impressive for a noname human wizard to say the least. He might be dead, but it's not confirmed. ET drivel still makes more sense than most of DE lore tbh. "Scrolls that binding beast dude" which created a new powerful type of magic that no elf could and even Teclis acknowledged it.
    Good for him not really
    It just what wh lore says about necromancers if you think they would fight on humanity side fine
    Max is companion of the most Mary Sue character in the universe certainly not a no name human
    *looks at Gelt in the end times* hmmmmm guess he isnt human anymore summoned undead after all
    Probably if he dealt with necromancy for as much time he would follow the same faith as the others. Anyways it is of no importance to the if we are not including VC in the hypothetical war

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,798
    Magic again boils down to numbers.

    An Elf Mage is probably a little stronger than a human mage on average, but there's a finite supply of Elf mages. Not so for Humans.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437
    Anyways about not so extraordinary mages
    High Sorceresses are the most powerful practitioners of the Drak Arts in all of Naggaroth bar the Witch King himself, and they wield terrifying powers. They are incredibly adept at manipulating the Winds of magic in their rawest, most destructive form, channelling energies that would destroy lesser beings into powerful spells that can lay waste to armies.[2][3]

    High Elf Archmages are amongst the greatest practitioners of magic within the mortal world.
    Through decades, and often centuries, of painstaking research and scrupulous study, High Elf Mages learn to master magic in its purest form, an art known simply as High Magic. Those who mastered this most challenging of magical lores hold the entire spectrum of magic at their command.[1a]

    At an Archmage's word, shimmering fields of magical energy spring into being to protect his allies, and the fires of courage blaze anew within their hearts. The truly gifted can even becalm the Winds of Magic themselves, collapsing a raging tempest until nought but a gentle breeze

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    Magic again boils down to numbers.

    An Elf Mage is probably a little stronger than a human mage on average, but there's a finite supply of Elf mages. Not so for Humans.

    Eh wouldn't be so sure human magic schools in the Empire were founded by Magnus the Pious who lifted the ancient laws against the practice of wizardry and founded the eight Colleges of Magic .Even now magic users are frawned upon and hunted down in many of the human realms

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Coldrage20#5180Coldrage20#5180 Registered Users Posts: 346

    Magic again boils down to numbers.

    An Elf Mage is probably a little stronger than a human mage on average, but there's a finite supply of Elf mages. Not so for Humans.

    Eh wouldn't be so sure human magic schools in the Empire were founded by Magnus the Pious who lifted the ancient laws against the practice of wizardry and founded the eight Colleges of Magic .Even now magic users are frawned upon and hunted down in many of the human realms
    No they were founded by Telis training the humans and using elf teaching they have a deeper understanding of the lores then elves do as they are toned to there singular lore better then the elfs. Witches and rouge mages are hunted down AE those who dont report to the collages for the proper training and are risking everyones lives by throwing around magic.

    The 2 lores of magic elves use that humans cant arnt because humans are worse then the elves its because outside of nerco human mages can only understand 1 wind and High magic is using all the winds in harmony together and dark magic is just slaming them together and being good at not having that kill you
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828
    edited August 2021
    "Lay waste to entire armies" still sounds far less impressive than "Greatest mages on the face of the earth" and "topple cities with a wave of a hand" slaan have :D. Plus it's not even an armybook quote, it's from the games. All exaggerations if we look at practical deeds. Human mages are also said to cast destructive spells that decimate entire regiments. This is just standard armybook hype, cuz all of them still prone to dying to a good old bullet to the head or even axe to the face despite their range advantage.

    If we talk numbers, let's remember it's not only Empire but Bretonnia, Kislev, Southern realms. All of these have mages too, and haven't really shunned the practice of magic. If we add Asian humans we also have Cathayan mages or can we agree that Cathay would be too much at this point?

    If it's all elves vs just Empire I would agree that Empire loses lol. But for some reason in this discussion it often seems like it is. Bretonnia has stronger mages and grail knights are some of the best warriors in the setting, only surpassed by the most elite chaos followers and vampires, still arguable on both accounts.

  • Coldrage20#5180Coldrage20#5180 Registered Users Posts: 346

    "Lay waste to entire armies" still sounds far less impressive than "Greatest mages on the face of the earth" and "topple cities with a wave of a hand" slaan have :D. All exaggerations if we look at practical deeds. Human mages are also said to cast destructive spells that decimate entire regiments. This is just standard armybook hype, cuz all of them still prone to dying to a good old bullet to the head or even axe to the face despite their range advantage.

    If we talk numbers, let's remember it's not only Empire but Bretonnia, Kislev, Southern realms. All of these have mages too, and haven't really shunned the practice of magic. If we add Asian humans we also have Cathayan mages or can we agree that Cathay would be too much at this point?

    Cathay if its anything like irl china would have armies in the millions anyways and Cathay has a much more casual view in magic then the empire so likely even more and skilled mages then the empire has
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    Magic again boils down to numbers.

    An Elf Mage is probably a little stronger than a human mage on average, but there's a finite supply of Elf mages. Not so for Humans.

    Eh wouldn't be so sure human magic schools in the Empire were founded by Magnus the Pious who lifted the ancient laws against the practice of wizardry and founded the eight Colleges of Magic .Even now magic users are frawned upon and hunted down in many of the human realms
    No they were founded by Telis training the humans and using elf teaching they have a deeper understanding of the lores then elves do as they are toned to there singular lore better then the elfs. Witches and rouge mages are hunted down AE those who dont report to the collages for the proper training and are risking everyones lives by throwing around magic.

    The 2 lores of magic elves use that humans cant arnt because humans are worse then the elves its because outside of nerco human mages can only understand 1 wind and High magic is using all the winds in harmony together and dark magic is just slaming them together and being good at not having that kill you
    Yeah Teclis was the one teaching magic but it was Magnus who allowed it.

    Point is many magic users die before joining the colleges.

    "Just"slaming the winds and not self-destructing ain't easy

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Seswatha#7633Seswatha#7633 Registered Users Posts: 4,828

    Magic again boils down to numbers.

    An Elf Mage is probably a little stronger than a human mage on average, but there's a finite supply of Elf mages. Not so for Humans.

    Eh wouldn't be so sure human magic schools in the Empire were founded by Magnus the Pious who lifted the ancient laws against the practice of wizardry and founded the eight Colleges of Magic .Even now magic users are frawned upon and hunted down in many of the human realms
    No they were founded by Telis training the humans and using elf teaching they have a deeper understanding of the lores then elves do as they are toned to there singular lore better then the elfs. Witches and rouge mages are hunted down AE those who dont report to the collages for the proper training and are risking everyones lives by throwing around magic.

    The 2 lores of magic elves use that humans cant arnt because humans are worse then the elves its because outside of nerco human mages can only understand 1 wind and High magic is using all the winds in harmony together and dark magic is just slaming them together and being good at not having that kill you
    Actually it's just empire mages that learn only one wind, and there are exceptions like the aforementioned Shreibner.

    Bretonnian Prophetesses can use 3 lores at the same time, so it's not like humans are incapable of using multiple lores.

This discussion has been closed.