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Do you like the build-able barricades, platforms, towers, etc... in MIDDLE of BATTLE?

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  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,089
    edited September 2021

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    For me, I don't like it. It removes the realism of the game.

    A structure suddenly popping from the ground anytime is not believable and feels like cheating.

    Instant towers, instant barricade, etc... hmmmmmm....

    almost like summoning magic and units out of no where right? schmuck
    Summoning Towers and Barricades?

    What is the point of building them before battle starts if you can summon them in an instant right away whenever you want?

    So the settlement walls shall also be summon-able?

    What lore allows you summon tower and barricade?
    you can summon monsters, ships and units and you're butthurt over something you dont even have to use?
    Yes, because it's not a thing that can happen in Warhammer even with a wizard there.

    Explain to me how an Empire wizard of Life would be able to summon a tower full of archers while in Altdorf? Give me a decent explanation of that and I'll admit I'm wrong to think it's world breaking.
    katarin can summon a massive ice bear and you're upset about towers and barricades... you're really being butthurt over nothing
    So you can't answer the question? Just to reiterate:

    Explain to me how an Empire wizard of Life would be able to summon a tower full of archers while in Altdorf? Give me a decent explanation of that and I'll admit I'm wrong to think it's world breaking.

    No? Nothing? Didn't think so.......

    Anyway you want to move the debate to Katarin fine. I'll answer your question (it's actually easy when you you can and if I can't it always means I'm wrong).

    From what we've seen of Kislev's lore of magic it is linked to the land of Kislev. So she is summoning a spirit that represents Kislev. This takes the form of a bear as it's Kislev.

    She's not summoning a bear like it's a statue, wall, or tower. She's summoning a spirit (I even want to say demon but Chaos so no) that takes the form of a bear infusing rock and ice with it's power to take form.

    Also there is always a limited pool of magic for mages to draw on. You want to change the how magic works so she can cast her normal spells and also make a dozen houses with PEOPLE in them? That's too much work for a wizard to do without being corrupted by Chaos.

    Also what if an army doesn't even have a mage? How then do they magic a trap?

    Anyway you now have three options answer my question, argue against what I said, or what you've done so far and talk about hurt bottoms. What you going for pal?
  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,089
    Crossil said:

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    For me, I don't like it. It removes the realism of the game.

    A structure suddenly popping from the ground anytime is not believable and feels like cheating.

    Instant towers, instant barricade, etc... hmmmmmm....

    almost like summoning magic and units out of no where right? schmuck
    Summoning Towers and Barricades?

    What is the point of building them before battle starts if you can summon them in an instant right away whenever you want?

    So the settlement walls shall also be summon-able?

    What lore allows you summon tower and barricade?
    you can summon monsters, ships and units and you're butthurt over something you dont even have to use?
    Yes, because it's not a thing that can happen in Warhammer even with a wizard there.

    Explain to me how an Empire wizard of Life would be able to summon a tower full of archers while in Altdorf? Give me a decent explanation of that and I'll admit I'm wrong to think it's world breaking.
    katarin can summon a massive ice bear and you're upset about towers and barricades... you're really being butthurt over nothing
    There's no standard magic that allows such a maneuver. Even in a Storm of Magic scenario. Only some sort of elaborate ritual like what Noctilus did could do that. Most that occurs in Storm of Magic is unit teleportation. And even then, it still requires the use of Arcane Fulcrums.

    Besides, magic is dependent on what lore of magic is being used. I doubt that every single race would suddenly have teleportation magic on the scale depicted here. And Kislev, particularly, doesn't have such magic.

    But I think it would be most egregious for races that don't utilize magic at all. Like the Dwarfs and Khorne.
    Also what he said, better explanation than mine.
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070
    edited September 2021

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    For me, I don't like it. It removes the realism of the game.

    A structure suddenly popping from the ground anytime is not believable and feels like cheating.

    Instant towers, instant barricade, etc... hmmmmmm....

    almost like summoning magic and units out of no where right? schmuck
    Summoning Towers and Barricades?

    What is the point of building them before battle starts if you can summon them in an instant right away whenever you want?

    So the settlement walls shall also be summon-able?

    What lore allows you summon tower and barricade?
    you can summon monsters, ships and units and you're butthurt over something you dont even have to use?
    CA is stretching Kislev lore. Remember lore of Ice and Bear.
    Regarding the ship, it is exclusive to certain faction.
    Monsters? Lore of the wild.

    Summoning Structures? Shouldn't you build and prepare those before battle starts and not during battle?

    How about Bretonnia, Empire summon towers and walls? Everyone can summon walls and towers without lore?, hmmmm....

    I don't see why everybody's handwaving it away as magic- I'm pretty sure they're just building it. The animations just don't show the builders due to convenience.

    building barricades and towers in a matter of seconds? That is fantastic. Total War battles are somewhat grounded even it is fantasy in a way that you have to prepare everything in deployment phase..

    Now, everything is summon-able
    Post edited by Jam#4399 on
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,717
    It's a game mechanic specific to particular game mode. It's really not gonna be a big deal.
  • #324448#324448 Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 2,146



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

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  • more-morewarpstonemore-morewarpstone Registered Users Posts: 313
    I think they could also add barricades and maybe other less heavy defenses(cover and whatnot) as an option when an army is encamped, so that when the enemy attack you had some extra tools to help win the battle at the cost of remaining stationary. This would make encamping an army near chokepoints extremely valuable, and really make the player think about the geography and where is the best place to battle the enemy.
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070
    edited September 2021



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Wouldn't it be perfect in siege of Total War? Fresh units being recruited from buildings. Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
  • #324448#324448 Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 2,146
    jamreal18 said:



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
    I'm partial to the idea. I don't think it should be available in every battle (I think being limited to the units you've recruited on the campaign map makes the campaign side of things feel more important) but I think in certain situations it can add another layer of tactical edge to the game. I don't think it should ever reach the point where you can "spam" units out from portals but having key moments where the meta of the battle can shift due to well-managed unit recruitment would be a good thing, at least for Survival Battles.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

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  • hendo#1695hendo#1695 Registered Users Posts: 3,002
    edited September 2021

    It's a game mechanic specific to particular game mode. It's really not gonna be a big deal.

    I think you're right. Though the thread is about mid battles, I have hopes deployables make a comeback.

    Earlier, someone mentioned a stance could be the deciding factor; piggybacking off of that idea- IMO encampment stance would be a great candidate for more elaborate deployables (e.g., Watchtowers, barrier types, maybe traps?). I would want elaborate defenses exclusively during the deployment phase. I'm not even really talking about walls here; also, I want the availability (and sturdiness) to be heavily influenced by the specific race.
    Post edited by hendo#1695 on
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070

    jamreal18 said:



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
    I'm partial to the idea. I don't think it should be available in every battle (I think being limited to the units you've recruited on the campaign map makes the campaign side of things feel more important) but I think in certain situations it can add another layer of tactical edge to the game. I don't think it should ever reach the point where you can "spam" units out from portals but having key moments where the meta of the battle can shift due to well-managed unit recruitment would be a good thing, at least for Survival Battles.
    Recruiting units just like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer? So Total War shall gather resources during mid-batltle as well just like those game in order to sustain the recruitment.

    I like Total War for its mechanic wherein there is already fixed units in battle. You can't just keep on reproducing fresh units immediately. Unit Replenishment while in battle? Hmmmmm...

    Anyways since you like those games mechanics to be implemented in Total War, how about repairing walls, towers, barricades during mid-battle as well?

    Since everyone can summon barricades and towers out of nowhere, how about repairing it in mid-battle?
  • #324448#324448 Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 2,146
    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
    I'm partial to the idea. I don't think it should be available in every battle (I think being limited to the units you've recruited on the campaign map makes the campaign side of things feel more important) but I think in certain situations it can add another layer of tactical edge to the game. I don't think it should ever reach the point where you can "spam" units out from portals but having key moments where the meta of the battle can shift due to well-managed unit recruitment would be a good thing, at least for Survival Battles.
    Recruiting units just like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer? So Total War shall gather resources during mid-batltle as well just like those game in order to sustain the recruitment.

    I like Total War for its mechanic wherein there is already fixed units in battle. You can't just keep on reproducing fresh units immediately. Unit Replenishment while in battle? Hmmmmm...

    Anyways since you like those games mechanics to be implemented in Total War, how about repairing walls, towers, barricades during mid-battle as well?

    Since everyone can summon barricades and towers out of nowhere, how about repairing it in mid-battle?
    You jest but all this sounds awesome. I would love a traditional-style RTS in the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Let Slip the Dogs of War - A fanmade Campaign Pack concept
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/303462/let-loose-the-dogs-of-war-a-fanmade-campaign-pack-concept
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
    I'm partial to the idea. I don't think it should be available in every battle (I think being limited to the units you've recruited on the campaign map makes the campaign side of things feel more important) but I think in certain situations it can add another layer of tactical edge to the game. I don't think it should ever reach the point where you can "spam" units out from portals but having key moments where the meta of the battle can shift due to well-managed unit recruitment would be a good thing, at least for Survival Battles.
    Recruiting units just like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer? So Total War shall gather resources during mid-batltle as well just like those game in order to sustain the recruitment.

    I like Total War for its mechanic wherein there is already fixed units in battle. You can't just keep on reproducing fresh units immediately. Unit Replenishment while in battle? Hmmmmm...

    Anyways since you like those games mechanics to be implemented in Total War, how about repairing walls, towers, barricades during mid-battle as well?

    Since everyone can summon barricades and towers out of nowhere, how about repairing it in mid-battle?
    You jest but all this sounds awesome. I would love a traditional-style RTS in the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
    Yeah, yeah, that's all well and good.

    But that's not Total War. And it shouldn't be.

    As such, building construction as is done in RTS is not doable here and doesn't justify their approach.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • #324448#324448 Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 2,146
    Crossil said:

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:



    reality is you're just mad about something you're not required to use, quit crying already

    I get it, you don't care about the game or the world and just want some ridiculous mobile gaming powerup nonsense to happen because funsies.
    Your zoomer is showing. Building mechanics have been a core part of many RTS games since the dawn of the genre. Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and countless others have utilized such a mechanic and there's nothing logically preventing its limited implementation in Total War. To insinuate such a mechanic is "mobile gaming powerup nonsense" is the banality of ridiculousness.
    How about recruiting units in mid battle? Do you like it in Total War as well since that feature is already in Age of Empires and Command Conquer.
    I'm partial to the idea. I don't think it should be available in every battle (I think being limited to the units you've recruited on the campaign map makes the campaign side of things feel more important) but I think in certain situations it can add another layer of tactical edge to the game. I don't think it should ever reach the point where you can "spam" units out from portals but having key moments where the meta of the battle can shift due to well-managed unit recruitment would be a good thing, at least for Survival Battles.
    Recruiting units just like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer? So Total War shall gather resources during mid-batltle as well just like those game in order to sustain the recruitment.

    I like Total War for its mechanic wherein there is already fixed units in battle. You can't just keep on reproducing fresh units immediately. Unit Replenishment while in battle? Hmmmmm...

    Anyways since you like those games mechanics to be implemented in Total War, how about repairing walls, towers, barricades during mid-battle as well?

    Since everyone can summon barricades and towers out of nowhere, how about repairing it in mid-battle?
    You jest but all this sounds awesome. I would love a traditional-style RTS in the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
    But that's not Total War. And it shouldn't be.
    Until 2015, this statement could have been applied to a Fantasy Total War in general. And yet look where we are.

    I don't think the series should become exactly like a traditional RTS. But the base building elements have me excited. And until we try them out and see their effect on the gameplay, it would be best to keep an open mind.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Let Slip the Dogs of War - A fanmade Campaign Pack concept
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/303462/let-loose-the-dogs-of-war-a-fanmade-campaign-pack-concept
  • RyanSewell#2107RyanSewell#2107 Registered Users Posts: 236
    To the idea that "don't use them if you don't want to" - we have to put up with the entire mechanics of the game being different and you can bet the AI/other users will be deploying them and changing it into a RTS tower defence game. It's garbage and being forced to do it, whether survival as part of campaign or not is rubbish.
  • Kayosiv#7489Kayosiv#7489 Senior Member Kirkland WA. USARegistered Users Posts: 2,850
    No, it seems terrible and I am not a fan.

    I don't like the during battle armament upgrades.

    I understand but don't love the getting new troops through mystic portals. Could be OK.

    I absolutely LOATH the demonic troops being weaker/half HP in their own demonic realm to make the battle (in a fake way) seem more epic.
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