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4 years of development. Maybe the multiple teams and projects was a bad idea

2

Comments

  • RikRiorik#9890RikRiorik#9890 Registered Users Posts: 12,140
    The proof will be in the TWW3 pudding Davey my man. I’m quite happy to admit if TWW3 tips the scale away from TWW1s to TWW2s lifecycle accomplishments when/if that time comes.

    We’ve gotten lots of good content in both but as of now I’d say those initial 16 months have looked a far better pound for pound fighter than the 52 (if late January release) or more months that followed them.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,343
    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • vonfoxfire#8945vonfoxfire#8945 Registered Users Posts: 846
    So far I've seen nothing from TWW3 to justify that long time frame for something that seems pretty much like the same game. Certainly not when you compare it with how much the DLC team was able to accomplish in that time.
    Unless they have some major reveals yet to come I have serious doubts on how this was managed.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    Obviously not.

    CA has been doing financially fantastic the last few years and has grown considerably.

    You can whine about the delay of a few months for a title that'll be supported for 5+ years but in terms of business decisions CA is going awesome.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,343

    Throwing more people at the game won't make it launch sooner, it may help, but it may as well cause more trouble.

    Besides, what does it matter how long has the game been in development? It's been delayed to early next year, not 10.

    Just my opinion but I would have rather they focused on completing the trilogy before adding too many projects like Troy and Thrones. I know people loved diplomacy in 3K and some quality of life improvements in Troy but I believe the Warhammer trilogy is the only Game with staying power and will keep people coming back using their hard earned cash. I'm not the owner of an AAA Company though. I don't mind Thrones and Troy or the Rome Remake but I wish they would have completed the Warhammer trilogy first
    Troy brought in roughly 30 million USD, no company is going to say no to that kind of money. Warhammer's performance has been erratic, Warhammer 2 actually saw a large down turn in revenue for 2017-18 when compared with Warhammer 1. The revenue increased in 2019 which is impressive given how Total Wars usually perform but was still a lot lower than the stellar launch of 3K. Going Warhammer only would see CA lose income and downsize rather than expand, no company is going to go down that route.
    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,343

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • BeargodBeargod Registered Users Posts: 452

    Obviously not.

    CA has been doing financially fantastic the last few years and has grown considerably.

    You can whine about the delay of a few months for a title that'll be supported for 5+ years but in terms of business decisions CA is going awesome.

    Who cares about CA making **** of money.. Look at EA. they make **** of money. Have you ever played fifa or madden in recent years, its just a cheap copy paste game every year cash crab to hook little kids to their ultimate team card gambling machine.. Its not like making alot of money equals investing that money into your passion project/game. In CA's case i fear all the extra money earned from Warhammer's succes has gone into **** side projects like Thrones of Britannia and Troy and some mobile games.

  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    This sounds like BS to me - no offense.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    edited September 2021
    Beargod said:

    Obviously not.

    CA has been doing financially fantastic the last few years and has grown considerably.

    You can whine about the delay of a few months for a title that'll be supported for 5+ years but in terms of business decisions CA is going awesome.

    Who cares about CA making **** of money.. Look at EA.
    That's literally the entire point of the thread.

    Look at EA. It somehow got made the most hated company for years because of games. Meanwhile there's companies which have done huge damage to the environment and have suicide nets around their factories.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,870
    Without Covid, I imagine Game 3 would have launched this year with the teams being exactly the size that they are now.

    Covid has exponentially more to do with the delayed....everything....than any distribution of development personnel.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    Valkaar said:

    Without Covid, I imagine Game 3 would have launched this year with the teams being exactly the size that they are now.

    Covid has exponentially more to do with the delayed....everything....than any distribution of development personnel.

    Pretty much.

    Not being able to work in a room makes any job like this much slower. Even just training someone for a job is much slower.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    KronusX said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
    Still forgetting that Troy's made by another studio in another country.

    Also, just looking at the mod subscription numbers tells me the playerbase isn't all that smaller than WH2's and if it was, they wouldn't have brought out Mythos at all, Troy would just have disappeared like ToB.
  • LuciusCornelius#7004LuciusCornelius#7004 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,296
    KronusX said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
    As far as I am aware, Epic has not paid any company based on the number of downloads. They have negotiated a set price before the give away release. The gaming company would then get the same amount of money, if the game was given away to one person or a billion. Is there info out there suggesting this was different for CA and Troy?

    Either way, $30 million is $30 million.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,566

    KronusX said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
    Still forgetting that Troy's made by another studio in another country.

    Also, just looking at the mod subscription numbers tells me the playerbase isn't all that smaller than WH2's and if it was, they wouldn't have brought out Mythos at all, Troy would just have disappeared like ToB.
    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.

    Unless you have numbers on epic active players

    Mods Don't tell weather they play actively or just subbed and moved on.

    Mythos was basically CA sofia choce to game not doing too hot. They probably were given a choce wether to do a new saga game or expansion. And they went with expansion

    Because jt also was befinifical for duture games to test out both historical and fantastical titles.

    After sagas are just that test beds.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • misunderstoodvampire#7653misunderstoodvampire#7653 Registered Users Posts: 1,317

    KronusX said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
    Still forgetting that Troy's made by another studio in another country.

    Also, just looking at the mod subscription numbers tells me the playerbase isn't all that smaller than WH2's and if it was, they wouldn't have brought out Mythos at all, Troy would just have disappeared like ToB.
    The Sofia studio helps with all of their projects
  • Boria#9178Boria#9178 Registered Users Posts: 410
    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    It is what it is, Why even complain now. I personally think they did it to quickly cash out some fast money on a cheap title. ToB was based on Attila and Troy used animations from Warhammer.

    Do I agree with their decision? No, I do not, can we do something about it? No, we cannot. All we can hope is they make better decisions. also people blame CA but I blame mostly Sega. Sega games have lots of DLC's I remember the company of heroes 2 that had commander to sell, they didnt offer much but they sold them aniway.
  • misunderstoodvampire#7653misunderstoodvampire#7653 Registered Users Posts: 1,317

    KronusX said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KronusX said:

    Boria said:

    RikRiorik said:

    4 years and with the TWW2 DLC team cranking out far less than they did during the time it took for TWW2 to launch after the release of TWW1.

    Seperate teams for sure. No one ever doubted that. But seperate most certainly never meant equal.

    I agree, they were trying stuff out I don't blame them but the time it took to make Thrones or Britannia and Troy could have been used for another race pack.
    I do blame them for that. They put their biggest money maker on the side for puny projects.
    3K made far more money than Warhammer 1+2 combined up to 2019. Troy did better than Warhammer 2 did if you look at the first 12 months of each game. Warhammer being CA's biggest money maker is a myth when you look at it's perfomance over time. It was a steady but not spectacular source of revenue that built it's success over time which had the fortune to be perfectly placed when gaming boomed during the pandemic.

    Making another race pack would never have generated the roughly 30 million USD revenue that Troy delivered and nothing done with Warhammer in 2019 would have brought in the 97 million USD that 3K delivered. No company is going to say no to that kind of money, no to mention that without that revenue the devs working on those games would have been laid of, not assigned to work on Warhammer.
    WH is CA’s biggest money maker, that’s a fact. 3K had higher initial sales but not long term, nor did its DLCs come close to WH. As for Troy.. it was given away for free and CA was paid an unknown sum of money.

    3K did well and was worth doing but it can’t be denied that WH is CA’s greatest cash cow.
    We have leaked revenue numbers for WH1 & 2 and 3K up to 2019, Warhammer 1+2 combined revenue was less than what 3K brought in that year. SEGA reports show that Troy brought in 3 billion Yen i.e roughly 30 million USD.

    We don't have revenue numbers from 2020 for either Warhammer or 3K but it is quite clear that Warhammer did well in 2020. Well enough to surpass 3K's lead from 2019? Impossible to tell, at the end of 2019 3K had made 97 million USD, while Warhammer 2 had made 51 million USD since 2017. You have to sell a lot of DLCs to make up that 46 million gap, particularly as sales of the main game seems to have declined going from Steam gold tier in 2019 to silver tier in 2020. (3K went from platinum to bronze.)

    My guess is that Warhammer certainly broke past 3K during this year thanks to how CA made a mess of the 3K DLC and engine. But Warhammer has been proclaimed CA biggest money maker during years we now know that this simply was not true.
    You do realize that those 30 millions were 100% because of the 7 millions copies paid by EPIC right? Or you actually BELIEVE for a second that people bought so many copies that they ended up getting 30 millions from Troy? Epic paid CA based on the nr of copies people downloaded and everyone and their mother was spamming every discord to pick Troy on the day they would give it for free.

    In case Troy would have made more money than WH2, they would left a skeleton team and focused the remaining team on Troy, which was not the case then, is not the case now and will not be the case in the future. Troy is nice for a couple of hours, but nothing that the most ardent fans would play for 50 hours and more.
    Still forgetting that Troy's made by another studio in another country.

    Also, just looking at the mod subscription numbers tells me the playerbase isn't all that smaller than WH2's and if it was, they wouldn't have brought out Mythos at all, Troy would just have disappeared like ToB.
    The Sofia studio helps with a lot of their projects. They didn’t just work on the Saga games
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070
    Isn't it better that W3 is taking longer?
    It means it's being develop with more time unlike Rome 2.
  • Ferestor#5771Ferestor#5771 Registered Users Posts: 1,313
    I´m still amazed how many of you exactly know how CA Teams are working. Truly astonishing.

    I think the announcement of WH3 was to early because of the leak at the time. Still think they would have announced the game originaly maybe now for the first time.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    jamreal18 said:

    Isn't it better that W3 is taking longer?
    It means it's being develop with more time unlike Rome 2.

    It depends. Did Cyberpunk do amazing because of its delay? It was still a mess at launch.
  • XxXScorpionXxX#2310XxXScorpionXxX#2310 Registered Users Posts: 6,143
    edited September 2021
    I'm inclined to agree. Even covid aside. I think its clear that more resources went to Thrones, 3K and Troy.

    Yes yes, separate teams. But manpower isn't the only limiting factor. Budget is too. If they allocated more budget to those games that is going to stall production too. People can't work for free. Or they shouldn't anyway.
    Request scorched body textures, and fire death effects. At least 30% of all damage in this game comes from fire sources. Request Fire for the Fire God DLC.
  • XxXScorpionXxX#2310XxXScorpionXxX#2310 Registered Users Posts: 6,143
    edited September 2021
    Ferestor said:

    I´m still amazed how many of you exactly know how CA Teams are working. Truly astonishing.

    I think the announcement of WH3 was to early because of the leak at the time. Still think they would have announced the game originaly maybe now for the first time.

    its been four years going on five. Something clearly happened.
    Request scorched body textures, and fire death effects. At least 30% of all damage in this game comes from fire sources. Request Fire for the Fire God DLC.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    saweendra said:



    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.


    Mythos.

    Sorry, case closed.

    A title with no playerbase wouldn't have gotten such a large DLC.

    WH2 never got a DLC of comparable scope.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,566
    edited September 2021

    saweendra said:



    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.


    Mythos.

    Sorry, case closed.

    A title with no playerbase wouldn't have gotten such a large DLC.

    WH2 never got a DLC of comparable scope.
    eh you mean the dlc that added most of wh stuff , skin wolves, furries or harpies , ..etc with couple of new animations with three bigger monstores who
    hydra have some wh hydra animation for its breath
    Gryphon its remodel of wh one
    and one totally unique one
    its toatally not wortth 25 dollars, pretty sure tomb kings or coast is actually worth more for money
    mate i don't what your smoking , but mythos was sofia attempt to save troy, it was either that or it dies. and even after that its still at least on steam has lower player count than rome 2 and assuming it has similar numbers on epic than your looking at a game that is doing as well as 3k did afer dust settles,

    may be you don't get it but CA sofia can not exsit if it doesn't have working title , which is also why there is gonna be 3k2 game because that team needs a game to develop.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited September 2021
    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:



    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.


    Mythos.

    Sorry, case closed.

    A title with no playerbase wouldn't have gotten such a large DLC.

    WH2 never got a DLC of comparable scope.
    eh you mean the dlc that added most of wh stuff , skin wolves, furries or harpies , ..etc with couple of new animations with three bigger monstores who
    hydra have some wh hydra animation for its breath
    Gryphon its remodel of wh one
    and one totally unique one
    its toatally not wortth 25 dollars, pretty sure tomb kings or coast is actually worth more for money
    mate i don't what your smoking , but mythos was sofia attempt to save troy, it was either that or it dies. and even after that its still at least on steam has lower player count than rome 2 and assuming it has similar numbers on epic than your looking at a game that is doing as well as 3k did afer dust settles,

    may be you don't get it but CA sofia can not exsit if it doesn't have working title , which is also why there is gonna be 3k2 game because that team needs a game to develop.
    If a game didn't have any players, it would have been dropped and the team moved to the next title, there would have been no attempt to salvage it with a major DLC. Or have you already forgotten what they did with 3K? 3K was a main line title, they did not bother bringing out a DLC to "save" it, they just killed it dead and moved the team to the next project when they obviously still had content in the pipeline and the game still had a sizable installbase. Troy in comparison is a minor title, they could have just given it the ToB treatment if they thought there was no money to be made with it.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464

    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:



    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.


    Mythos.

    Sorry, case closed.

    A title with no playerbase wouldn't have gotten such a large DLC.

    WH2 never got a DLC of comparable scope.
    eh you mean the dlc that added most of wh stuff , skin wolves, furries or harpies , ..etc with couple of new animations with three bigger monstores who
    hydra have some wh hydra animation for its breath
    Gryphon its remodel of wh one
    and one totally unique one
    its toatally not wortth 25 dollars, pretty sure tomb kings or coast is actually worth more for money
    mate i don't what your smoking , but mythos was sofia attempt to save troy, it was either that or it dies. and even after that its still at least on steam has lower player count than rome 2 and assuming it has similar numbers on epic than your looking at a game that is doing as well as 3k did afer dust settles,

    may be you don't get it but CA sofia can not exsit if it doesn't have working title , which is also why there is gonna be 3k2 game because that team needs a game to develop.
    If a game didn't have any players, it would have been dropped and the team moved to the next title, there would have been no attempt to salvage it with a major DLC. Or have you already forgotten what they did with 3K? 3K was a main line title, they did not bother bringing out a DLC to "save" it, they just killed it dead and moved the team to the next project when they obviously still had content in the pipeline and the game still had a sizable installbase. Troy in comparison is a minor title, they could have just given it the ToB treatment if they thought there was no money to be made with it.
    To be fair, 3K's decision is puzzling, considering they killed their playerbase by releasing the DLC they wanted instead of what fans asked. Who knew that it would turn out badly? Now you might say ''this is not the case for Warhammer'' which is true but for different reasons, aka the fact Warhammer has a rich lore while 3K was supposed to be more....historical in a way?

    if anything, it just proves that there is no way CA would be able to properly sell a historical game in the future without adding fantasy in it else they would not be able to sustain it. Even troy had mythical elements in it before Mythos aka ''the legend behind the myth'' .
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,566

    saweendra said:

    saweendra said:



    And there is nothing to suggest it has big player base honestly.


    Mythos.

    Sorry, case closed.

    A title with no playerbase wouldn't have gotten such a large DLC.

    WH2 never got a DLC of comparable scope.
    eh you mean the dlc that added most of wh stuff , skin wolves, furries or harpies , ..etc with couple of new animations with three bigger monstores who
    hydra have some wh hydra animation for its breath
    Gryphon its remodel of wh one
    and one totally unique one
    its toatally not wortth 25 dollars, pretty sure tomb kings or coast is actually worth more for money
    mate i don't what your smoking , but mythos was sofia attempt to save troy, it was either that or it dies. and even after that its still at least on steam has lower player count than rome 2 and assuming it has similar numbers on epic than your looking at a game that is doing as well as 3k did afer dust settles,

    may be you don't get it but CA sofia can not exsit if it doesn't have working title , which is also why there is gonna be 3k2 game because that team needs a game to develop.
    If a game didn't have any players, it would have been dropped and the team moved to the next title, there would have been no attempt to salvage it with a major DLC. Or have you already forgotten what they did with 3K? 3K was a main line title, they did not bother bringing out a DLC to "save" it, they just killed it dead and moved the team to the next project when they obviously still had content in the pipeline and the game still had a sizable installbase. Troy in comparison is a minor title, they could have just given it the ToB treatment if they thought there was no money to be made with it.
    Troy had a player base , so did 3k the difference is 3k studio choose to make second game rather than trying to make another expansion


    Troy made a expansion.
    There was money made there sure, but its not as big as wh in terms of dlc or even 3k at launch

    Neither game tries actually address a core issue with them , the lack of replaybility in terms of different cultures to much degree. And their lack of Mp crowd to actually show case and keep interest in the game.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,787
    Business discussion. Moved to TW Chat.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

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