DLC-theory for "the other provinces" of Cathay

TheWattman#7460

With the new revamp of Cathay, basically any characters previously mentioned are now at risk of being classed as outdated in favour of the Dragon children. With the main internal conflicts now being sibling rivalries, who needs a Monkey King or Dien Ch'ing causing various Chaos behind the lines? And besides, how do you overthrow an immortal dragon that is now conveniently explained away as on par with the gods themselves (and this raises the question on how and why they allowed the Old Ones to mess with the planet)? The Monkey King might still come, but I doubt it will be anything like the previously established lore. This raises the question of further DLC-lords and the other provinces of Cathay. What about the East and the South? Expeditions beyond the borders I won't cover, as that can be just plain anything at this point. But here are my theories:

Cental thoughts:

Assuming there are more dragon children, my working theory so far is that they follow the established winds of magic in terms of their characters. After all, if the Dragon Emperor and his consort are as powerful as they claim to be, they would be highly in-tuned to the Winds of Magic and their offspring would be subject to specific winds (big assumption). While it is tempting then to associate the Iron Dragon with the Lore of Metal, the dragon form shown is white and thus, according to this reasoning, must be connected with the Lore of Light. As for the Storm Dragon, her purple form would seem to suggest a connection with the Lore of Death, which honestly, as Harmony and Yin and Yang goes, would make for a great set of opposites that you need to get to work in unison to defend the Empire right? Alternatively her name implies a connection with the Lore of Heavens, but I digress. Now for the others:

The Eastern Provinces - "the Blue/Grey Dragon vs the Dark Elves"
I think the eastern provinces, assuming its another Dragon Child, is the easiest to predict, assuming for the moment that a conflict with Nippon is out of the question, as we have seen literally zero about that so far. What enemy does Cathay have to fight along its coasts? Why the constant Dark Elf raiders in their Black Arks of course, beginning with Laithikir Fellheart back in 1103 IC and culminating with the destruction of Khairith Irlean at the hands of Witch Elves. So it would be only fitting to have Kouran Darkhand/Tullaris Dreadbringer stationed on the shores of Cathay as an invasion force. Who would counter this threat? My money says it would be a Blue or Grey Dragon, connected either with the Lore of Heavens or Lore of Shadows, as those seem the most appropriate for a coast/naval leaning experience and can be argued to be in a Yin/Yang situation with eithter Lore of Death or Lore of Light. Again an assumption, but that's all we have to go on at this point.




The Southern Provinces - "the Green/Brown Dragon vs the Beastmen/Lizardmen"
What about the Southern Provinces? Well if we take inspiration from 3K, these would be the wild and untamed regions bordering the jungle-regions of the south, in this case Ind and Khuresh. Assuming again that none of these civilizations will be brought in, like Nippon, what is one thing that charactarize both these regions? Vast numbers of Beastmen, in one form or another, with Tigermen in Ind and unspecified ones in Khuresh (lets hope to the Old Ones that they don't group the Snakemen together into regular Beastmen). Thus the Southern defender would be almost as anti-Chaos as the Northern Storm Dragon is at the Great Bastion, even though a conflict with a Lizardmen expedition at the Lost City of the Old Ones is also possible. What would be a good gatekeeper here then? In my mind, it would be a Brown or Green Dragon, specifically tuned to either the Lore of Beasts or the Lore of Life, reflecting the wildness of this region either through a beastly connection or one with Life's use of Forest Magic. If it was to be a Life Dragon, that would be a nice Harmony contrast to the assumed Lore of Death Storm Dragon right?




What do you think guys? What is the future of Cathay beyond launch?

sykall#1105

Honestly I do not expect more dragons. If TWW2 set up follows, we can expect 4 further LLs.
Maybe one more of these is a dragon. But both GW and CA spoke about how large and diverse Cathay is. And I am sure they want to show this internal difference.
I fully expect that we will also see threats in central or southeastern Cathay for which DLC LL have to deal with. Be these LL Monkey Kings or human champions or someone else.

talonn#7575

The central plain will be ruled by Monkey King, which is fitting since he is the one who will stir the chaos within Cathay and all the surrounding dragons will be against him

Ferestor#5771

I hope for at least the Monkey King and a human LL (melee or caster)

Ithe other children could be the FLC because they would play the same as the others.

TheWattman#7460

talonn said:

The central plain will be ruled by Monkey King, which is fitting since he is the one who will stir the chaos within Cathay and all the surrounding dragons will be against him

This is what Im thinking as well if he is still an option.

RyanSewell#2107

As much as I love the new LLs revealed I don't want every Cathayan LL to be a dragon prince/princess. I like Kairos but I don't want every Tzeentch LL to be a Lord of Change.

Maedrethnir#1968

It's a possibility, and a welcome one.

Crossil#2134

I think there would also be a central province, with the sibling ruling from Wei-Jin.

talonn said:

The central plain will be ruled by Monkey King, which is fitting since he is the one who will stir the chaos within Cathay and all the surrounding dragons will be against him

Which doesn't work, as the central ruling settlement would be Wei-Jin, the capitol. It makes no sense to claim he would be ruling from there if he's stirring up chaos.

I would sooner bet he would be somewhere in the southwest mountains. Wasn't that the realm of these monkey guys?

hastur_not_y_king

Cental thoughts:
As for the Storm Dragon, her purple form would seem to suggest a connection with the Lore of Death, which honestly, as Harmony and Yin and Yang goes, would make for a great set of opposites that you need to get to work in unison to defend the Empire right? Alternatively her name implies a connection with the Lore of Heavens, but I digress. Now for the others:

Her name Miao Ying, "Bewitching Shadows", already makes your central thought problematic.

Arcani_4_Ever#4489

1 Future LL is guaranteed to be the Monkey King. He's the only guy that was able to temporarily overthrow the Dragon Emperor. So he needs to be an LL in a future Lord Pack.

Another potential would be the Jade Vampires. Considering how the rulers of each province are the children of the Dragon Emperor now. Then the LL for the Jade Vampires could be a traitor child that was turned by Neferata.

Also the Dragon Emperor himself needs to be an LL.

Specially if we are getting OP characters like Nagash in the future.

The Dragon Emperor is very strong, but he is no Chaos God level of strong.

In the End Times Grimgor and the Skaven overran and destroyed Cathay. So he's very killable.

TheWattman#7460

hastur_not_y_king said:

Cental thoughts:
As for the Storm Dragon, her purple form would seem to suggest a connection with the Lore of Death, which honestly, as Harmony and Yin and Yang goes, would make for a great set of opposites that you need to get to work in unison to defend the Empire right? Alternatively her name implies a connection with the Lore of Heavens, but I digress. Now for the others:

Her name Miao Ying, "Bewitching Shadows", already makes your central thought problematic.

I was refering to her name as Storm Dragon, as Im not a chinese speaker and don't know the meanings of their person-names.

Arcani_4_Ever said:

Another potential would be the Jade Vampires. Considering how the rulers of each province are the children of the Dragon Emperor now. Then the LL for the Jade Vampires could be a traitor child that was turned by Neferata.

Also the Dragon Emperor himself needs to be an LL.

Specially if we are getting OP characters like Nagash in the future.

The Dragon Emperor is very strong, but he is no Chaos God level of strong.

In the End Times Grimgor and the Skaven overran and destroyed Cathay. So he's very killable.

How would turning a Dragon Child into a Vampire work? Surely it can't be as simple as resurecting a dead Dragon as a zombie? I would think such blood would be immune to the Blood Kiss?

Seems like they rewrote the rules on Cathay now and the Emperor is now a god too. Thus, all previous lore has been invalidated.

Maelas

I really don't see Cathay having other dragons. The whole duality yin-yang core design they have going is already complete with the two starting LL !

Jam#4399

Monkey King is half human and half monkey, right?

I don't like to see him transforming into King Kong.

I do not like to see another recoloured dragon as well as LL for Cathay.

Commissar_G#7535

Cathay isn't going to get 4LL in Cathay.

They, just like everyone else will have a multitude of expeditionary forces for gameplay diversity.

hastur_not_y_king

TheWattman said:

I was refering to her name as Storm Dragon, as Im not a chinese speaker and don't know the meanings of their person-names.

My mistake then. I thought you were referring to her given name, not her title.

Arcani_4_Ever said:

In the End Times Grimgor and the Skaven overran and destroyed Cathay. So he's very killable.

Isn't Cathay End Times lore independently concocted by a Black Library author and not GW canon?

Maelas said:

I really don't see Cathay having other dragons. The whole duality yin-yang core design they have going is already complete with the two starting LL !

Yes. But as they say, the dragon has NINE children...

jamreal18 said:

Monkey King is half human and half monkey, right?

I don't like to see him transforming into King Kong.

I do not like to see another recoloured dragon as well as LL for Cathay.

Monkey King's inspiration Sun Wukong is a Buddhist monkey (just monkey, not half human) who, though he cannot transform into King Kong, wields a weapon that could change size at his will and weighs thirteen thousand and five hundred pounds. I don't know what it takes to kill a dragon, but any monkey who uses such a weapon probably can fight a dragon.

JToegiTheSnotling#6624

I think we are getting some more dragon children, but I think they'll be on the flc side of things. Monkey King is definitely dlc material. Also he could start more southern outside of Grand Cathay.

Rob18446

Commissar_G said:

Cathay isn't going to get 4LL in Cathay.

They, just like everyone else will have a multitude of expeditionary forces for gameplay diversity.

Yeah this seems the most likely case, I think getting the whole of Cathay is unlikely at this point

Neodeinos#5871

It's possible we would get more siblings of Miao Ying and Zhao Ming but I struggle to see how CA could make them different enough.

Maelas

hastur_not_y_king said:

<
Yes. But as they say, the dragon has NINE children...

Yes, but they might not be all rulers ! Plus, personally, I'd like if the Cathayan hierarchy wasn't all dragons, because it turns the Dragon Emperor from a protector and a guardian to a very controling dictator, if every province belongs to his direct family !

Ibid

The question of who their enemies would be is an interesting one. Nippon and Ind are obvious contenders in a world of infinite budget, although there is another complicating factor.

Other areas of the Warhammer world have outposts, colonies, and expeditions, allowing more factions a diversity of opponent. I initially thought that, given Tilea and Estalia's position, this would be an ideal opportunity to have something similar: nearby trading outposts, or land leased from the Cathayan and Nipponese authorities (as happened to their real-life counterparts, although neither Hong Kong nor Singapore were Iberian or Italian), and even providing for a very exciting Southern Realms introduction further down the line. However, given what CA's biggest new market is, I suspect that we won't be seeing such a move, and any hints in the lore I expect likewise to be retconned.

JToegiTheSnotling#6624

Maelas said:

hastur_not_y_king said:

<
Yes. But as they say, the dragon has NINE children...

Yes, but they might not be all rulers ! Plus, personally, I'd like if the Cathayan hierarchy wasn't all dragons, because it turns the Dragon Emperor from a protector and a guardian to a very controling dictator, if every province belongs to his direct family !

Sounds kinda fitting though 🤔

hastur_not_y_king

Maelas said:

hastur_not_y_king said:

<
Yes. But as they say, the dragon has NINE children...

Yes, but they might not be all rulers ! Plus, personally, I'd like if the Cathayan hierarchy wasn't all dragons, because it turns the Dragon Emperor from a protector and a guardian to a very controling dictator, if every province belongs to his direct family !

I fail to see a connection between giving land to your direct family and being a controlling dictator, but I think dragons everywhere would cause visual fatigue fast.

Ibid said:

this would be an ideal opportunity to have something similar: nearby trading outposts, or land leased from the Cathayan and Nipponese authorities (as happened to their real-life counterparts, although neither Hong Kong nor Singapore were Iberian or Italian)

We could have Macau, in a manner of speaking. The Dutch and Spanish also colonized Taiwan. Nippon could also have a Empire outpost as a nod to the facility Japanese established to learn from the Dutch.

Maelas

hastur_not_y_king said:

I fail to see a connection between giving land to your direct family and being a controlling dictator, but I think dragons everywhere would cause visual fatigue fast.

Well, because they're a big difference between "I'm a benevolent protector dragon and some of my children have risen through the ranks of the Cathayan hierarchy, especially in the most dangerous provinces" and "Every single one of my offspring is ruling over the puny humans, and they don't have even one non-dragon leader" !

One of them paint the story of a land of harmony, the other is a land where humans are kept in servitude of dragons !

Erathil#3988

Crossil said:

I think there would also be a central province, with the sibling ruling from Wei-Jin.

talonn said:

The central plain will be ruled by Monkey King, which is fitting since he is the one who will stir the chaos within Cathay and all the surrounding dragons will be against him

Which doesn't work, as the central ruling settlement would be Wei-Jin, the capitol. It makes no sense to claim he would be ruling from there if he's stirring up chaos.

I would sooner bet he would be somewhere in the southwest mountains. Wasn't that the realm of these monkey guys?

Unless they're ruling from the Eastern Province? If memory serves, that's where the great population centers have always been.

hastur_not_y_king

Maelas said:

hastur_not_y_king said:

I fail to see a connection between giving land to your direct family and being a controlling dictator, but I think dragons everywhere would cause visual fatigue fast.

"Every single one of my offspring is ruling over the puny humans, and they don't have even one non-dragon leader" !

So MTG Tarkir? Ok, I think I get it.

Maedrethnir#1968

Maelas said:

hastur_not_y_king said:

<
Yes. But as they say, the dragon has NINE children...

Yes, but they might not be all rulers ! Plus, personally, I'd like if the Cathayan hierarchy wasn't all dragons, because it turns the Dragon Emperor from a protector and a guardian to a very controling dictator, if every province belongs to his direct family !

Technically, he is protecting them from his wrath. That's a fair deal!

Maelas said:

hastur_not_y_king said:

I fail to see a connection between giving land to your direct family and being a controlling dictator, but I think dragons everywhere would cause visual fatigue fast.

Well, because they're a big difference between "I'm a benevolent protector dragon and some of my children have risen through the ranks of the Cathayan hierarchy, especially in the most dangerous provinces" and "Every single one of my offspring is ruling over the puny humans, and they don't have even one non-dragon leader" !

One of them paint the story of a land of harmony, the other is a land where humans are kept in servitude of dragons !

A paradise, then.

JungleElf#8229

Where's the number nine coming from?

hastur_not_y_king

JungleElf said:

Where's the number nine coming from?

"The Dragon has Nine Children" is a very common saying in China. It refers to how children could be so different from each other and their parents.

JungleElf#8229

hastur_not_y_king said:

JungleElf said:

Where's the number nine coming from?

"The Dragon has Nine Children" is a very common saying in China. It refers to how children could be so different from each other and their parents.

So we don't know if the Dragon Emperor actually has 9 children?

GloatingSwine#8098

TheWattman said:

Cental thoughts:
Assuming there are more dragon children, my working theory so far is that they follow the established winds of magic in terms of their characters. After all, if the Dragon Emperor and his consort are as powerful as they claim to be, they would be highly in-tuned to the Winds of Magic and their offspring would be subject to specific winds (big assumption). While it is tempting then to associate the Iron Dragon with the Lore of Metal, the dragon form shown is white and thus, according to this reasoning, must be connected with the Lore of Light. As for the Storm Dragon, her purple form would seem to suggest a connection with the Lore of Death, which honestly, as Harmony and Yin and Yang goes, would make for a great set of opposites that you need to get to work in unison to defend the Empire right? Alternatively her name implies a connection with the Lore of Heavens, but I digress. Now for the others:

In the wuxing system of elements, white is the colour associated with the element of metal, and the cardinal direction west.

Black is the colour associated with the north and the element of water (which okay, storms if you squint a bit).

The others are Wood, associated with the colour green and the east, and Fire associated with the colour red and the south. That makes for lores of life and fire.

The last is Earth, which is associated with the centre and the colour yellow. Yellow is also the colour of emperors (because gold).

TheWattman#7460

GloatingSwine said:

TheWattman said:

Cental thoughts:
Assuming there are more dragon children, my working theory so far is that they follow the established winds of magic in terms of their characters. After all, if the Dragon Emperor and his consort are as powerful as they claim to be, they would be highly in-tuned to the Winds of Magic and their offspring would be subject to specific winds (big assumption). While it is tempting then to associate the Iron Dragon with the Lore of Metal, the dragon form shown is white and thus, according to this reasoning, must be connected with the Lore of Light. As for the Storm Dragon, her purple form would seem to suggest a connection with the Lore of Death, which honestly, as Harmony and Yin and Yang goes, would make for a great set of opposites that you need to get to work in unison to defend the Empire right? Alternatively her name implies a connection with the Lore of Heavens, but I digress. Now for the others:

In the wuxing system of elements, white is the colour associated with the element of metal, and the cardinal direction west.

Black is the colour associated with the north and the element of water (which okay, storms if you squint a bit).

The others are Wood, associated with the colour green and the east, and Fire associated with the colour red and the south. That makes for lores of life and fire.

The last is Earth, which is associated with the centre and the colour yellow. Yellow is also the colour of emperors (because gold).

Huh, didn't know this. Doesn't quite work with my line of thought, but then again Im basing it on pretty much nothing. So a Green Dragon in the East and Red Dragon in the South then. As good a system as any. Life and Fire can be thought of in similar terms of Harmony I suppose, in a sort of creation vs destruction way. Could be a good basis for another sibling couple.