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Dogs of War or Legion of Nagash?

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  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,732
    SerPus said:

    Humans are different though

    And VC are different from TK, yet people still refer to them as Undead races.

    There is more you can do with them, and they always feel more fresh because we can identify much easier with them and their unique groups.

    Not really. In Warhammer, they are mostly just parodying real cultures. Doesn't sound very fresh to me.

    We have defensive undead, versatile undead and aggressive undead.

    Wait, how does this line of thought works when we compare DoW with other human races? That they are defensive with their pikes? Cathay is defensive. They have monsters? Both Kislev and Cathay have them. They are versatile? So is the Empire.
    The difference being that DoW are an existing part of the warhammer universe - they have merit on the fact that they had rules, miniatures, characters and lands in game etc.

    Legions are brand new - so if they don't bring something interesting what's the point?
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Forlì, ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 2,931
    Equix said:

    I think the opposite: the more races of each type, the better.

    I would like to have by the end of W3:

    10 races of humans:
    Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca, Kislev, Cathay, Southern Realms (Dogs of War), Nippon, Ind, Amazons, Albion.

    10 races of diverse pure chaos:
    Chaos Warriors, Chaos Undivided, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, 3 different Beastmen races (apemen and fishmen? they exist in lore), Skaven.

    4 races of Elves:
    High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Sea Elves.

    4 races of Undead
    Undead Legions of Nagash
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    Vampire Coast

    3 races of Greenskins
    Greenskins
    Hobgoblin Khanates
    Gnobblar Hordes

    3 races of Dwarfs
    Dwarves
    Chaos Dwarves
    Norse Dwarves

    2 races of cold blooded
    Lizardmen
    Kuresh (snakemen, reimagined to be great)

    If this takes 12 years is ok, warhammer should be the ultimate fantasy world, detailed and diverse like this.

    Isn't that a bit too much?
    No, i also dislike Garth Ennis. He is very juvenile and raunchy, and some of his statements are utterly ridiculous, like Captain America being offensive to WWII veterans when his co-creator, Jack Kirby, served in the war and soldiers liked his stories.

    If you think using your abilities to help and inspire people is childish, then i feel sorry for you.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 7,283

    The difference being that DoW are an existing part of the warhammer universe

    ...that was dropped after the 5th edition.
    I can see what DoW can bring in terms of campaign gameplay or aesthetics. They are adventurers that go wherever the gold coin might lead them. That's very exciting if done right. But since you want to talk about units and battle playstyles, then what exactly do they bring?

    Legions are brand new - so if they don't bring something interesting what's the point?

    They don't bring something interesting for you. That's okay, some people like ancient necromancers, others like not-Italian mercenaries that died while taking a bath.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 955

    Dogs of War- an actual tabletop army with miniatures, rules, units and dozens of characters.

    Nagash- a fan fiction race designed around a single character literally designed as a joke. One unit (which really belongs in AoS).

    I know which one should be most likely...

    Nagash is the biggest Warhammer villain after the chaos gods you know.
    Which doesn’t mean he should get his own faction. I know the VC make it seem like all flavors of undead need their own comprehensive list, but think of all the nerd rage that would come from all the retreads that would be done if t he Tzeentch rage is any indicAtion.

    “he’s his own faction. He should have all unique units”.

    Recent events have made the likelihood of him being a unique faction drop some as he’d be better off being a Vampire Count Lord with access to Tomb King units.
  • ErathilErathil Registered Users Posts: 1,241
    I have never seen a compelling vision for what a Legions of Nagash playable race would look like.

    In the lore and books, he commands a mix of generic undead. I think the only unique units he's ever been assigned were Morghasts in the End Times. If Nagash is ever added to the game, his faction should just be a mix or mash-up of existing undead, since that's sort of his whole deal; he dominates other undead who are all, one way or another, descended from his arts.

    It's a bit of a nightmare to implement, but seems like the best way. Nagash would make an excellent end-game crisis, rivaling or surpassing Archaeon's invasion, with Norsca-like dilemmas for players in other undead factions.

    But making a full, distinct, playable race, with unique units and mechanics, just isn't a winnable prospect. You're copying way too much, pulling characters away from existing factions that better reflect them, and any new units you add would have to be built whole-cloth and would still end up resembling existing units, since you're stuck retreading the same undead archetypes other races have already done.

    And if you really, really want to play with a Nagash-centric undead race... well, one of those exists. Look at the Ossiarch Bonereapers. In Age of Sigmar. I doubt people in this thread want to see something like that in the Old World.
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,820
    If Be'lakor indeed ends up coming with a pandaemonius roster I guess I'd be okay with Nagash coming with something similar as an FLC down the line. (Though I'd hope they don't do an End Times and give him everything, but instead bespoke choices to reflect the 4th edition Undead book.)

    I still think Nagash would make a good Race Pack. Also include The Nameless and Dieter Helsnicht to round out the lords, have a unique lore (Undeath), and a handful of unique units (Lichelords, Wraith-Wizards, Dread Abyssal, Morghast Archai/Harbingers, Heavy Chariots, Carrion Wraiths) and then fill out the rest of the roster with minorly touched up additions from VCs and TKs.

    But! That's not enough for a Campaign Pack, and CA hasn't indicated that they're willing to do smaller Race Packs outside of the context of pre-order bonuses. They could, maybe, hopefully.

    So I think Nagash's best shot flew foul when it became obvious that Ogre Kingdoms were going to be the pre-order.

    //

    Dogs of War, on the other hand, have enough juice for a Campaign Pack. Especially if you fold Arabyan bits into them.
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 1,421
    How is the answer anything other than both?

    Both had tabletop models - both had books - both are real life things in Warhammer that are playable. Both are great content. Both are worthy of a spend. Both would be sorely missed if not added.

    Alright, Nagash could come in as an LL for VC or TK or something, but himself has to be in - so you could argue that an army doesnt come with Nagash, but Nagash must surely come as a playable Lord himself.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,886
    Erathil said:

    I have never seen a compelling vision for what a Legions of Nagash playable race would look like.

    Yes you have, or you haven't looked very far. You just don't like it.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653
    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,886

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Ditto for the Dogs of War.

    How hard would it be to add half a dozen new units that never made it to tabletop but were planned from a scrapped armybook just like Bretonnia?
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 955

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Except you are talking about One lord who already has acceptable homes, who’s friends already belong to those homes in game.

    So there also seems to be people with massive blinders on when it comes to how reasonable it is to create a new faction for an extremely limited lord pool with other factions already fighting for those Lords versus the homeless lords of someone like Kislev.

  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Ditto for the Dogs of War.

    How hard would it be to add half a dozen new units that never made it to tabletop but were planned from a scrapped armybook just like Bretonnia?
    How to make me very happy with DoW: give us the 8 or 9 RoRs mentioned in various 6e army books as an option that we never actually got to see. Heck one of those was Celestial Dragon Monks. Having a RoR of a sect of mercenary Monks would be pretty relevant. And I still want to know about the horrific Breed of Nightgar

    I find this whole argument silly because we have a good chance of getting them both and they can both have new content.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,334

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Ditto for the Dogs of War.

    How hard would it be to add half a dozen new units that never made it to tabletop but were planned from a scrapped armybook just like Bretonnia?
    I agree with this.
    If they get an update, then they would be an entirely new and unique faction.

    However, most people arguing for the Dogs of War are saying that as they are from their sixth edition supplement is totally unique and original even though most of their generic roster is already in-game.

    Some even have claimed that they just need their fifth edition army book with just their regiments of renown.

    That was why people were claiming they would be preorder because they had most of their stuff already in-game.
    Now, those very same people are claiming that those units are completely new and not reskins, and that they are like the High Elves in importance when their biggest moment was dying instantly to Skaven during the Endtimes.

  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Except you are talking about One lord who already has acceptable homes, who’s friends already belong to those homes in game.

    So there also seems to be people with massive blinders on when it comes to how reasonable it is to create a new faction for an extremely limited lord pool with other factions already fighting for those Lords versus the homeless lords of someone like Kislev.

    So it's unreasonable to expand on something that has some actual characters and lore but hoping for things like Nippon and Ind are fine?

    People have written endless explanations on why they don't think Nagash would fit well in the existing races not to mention those races all have other options. If they were actually hinting at The Nameless that adds another spanner in the works when it comes to sorting out Nagash into an existing race.

    This genuinely just feels like going back in time and arguing about Vampire Coast again where so many people said it would just be Harkon in a LP for the Counts and that he doesn't make sense as his own race and there aren't enough other characters to have the Coast be it's on thing and so on.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,886
    SaintCorn said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Ditto for the Dogs of War.

    How hard would it be to add half a dozen new units that never made it to tabletop but were planned from a scrapped armybook just like Bretonnia?
    I agree with this.
    If they get an update, then they would be an entirely new and unique faction.

    However, most people arguing for the Dogs of War are saying that as they are from their sixth edition supplement is totally unique and original even though most of their generic roster is already in-game.

    Some even have claimed that they just need their fifth edition army book with just their regiments of renown.

    That was why people were claiming they would be preorder because they had most of their stuff already in-game.
    Now, those very same people are claiming that those units are completely new and not reskins, and that they are like the High Elves in importance when their biggest moment was dying instantly to Skaven during the Endtimes.
    The real big brain move would be to make Warhammer units out of the real world Da Vinci invention blueprints. Just like the birdmen.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,334

    SaintCorn said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Ditto for the Dogs of War.

    How hard would it be to add half a dozen new units that never made it to tabletop but were planned from a scrapped armybook just like Bretonnia?
    I agree with this.
    If they get an update, then they would be an entirely new and unique faction.

    However, most people arguing for the Dogs of War are saying that as they are from their sixth edition supplement is totally unique and original even though most of their generic roster is already in-game.

    Some even have claimed that they just need their fifth edition army book with just their regiments of renown.

    That was why people were claiming they would be preorder because they had most of their stuff already in-game.
    Now, those very same people are claiming that those units are completely new and not reskins, and that they are like the High Elves in importance when their biggest moment was dying instantly to Skaven during the Endtimes.
    The real big brain move would be to make Warhammer units out of the real world Da Vinci invention blueprints. Just like the birdmen.
    That would be a solid move. Da Vinci had loads of crazy ideas, and putting them into a faction would be extremely cool.
    Lots of new and flashy units all based around Renaissance Italy.

  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 7,283

    The real big brain move would be to make Warhammer units out of the real world Da Vinci invention blueprints. Just like the birdmen.

    Yes. Especially considering that they had Da Vinci himself as a playable character.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 955

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Except you are talking about One lord who already has acceptable homes, who’s friends already belong to those homes in game.

    So there also seems to be people with massive blinders on when it comes to how reasonable it is to create a new faction for an extremely limited lord pool with other factions already fighting for those Lords versus the homeless lords of someone like Kislev.

    So it's unreasonable to expand on something that has some actual characters and lore but hoping for things like Nippon and Ind are fine?

    People have written endless explanations on why they don't think Nagash would fit well in the existing races not to mention those races all have other options. If they were actually hinting at The Nameless that adds another spanner in the works when it comes to sorting out Nagash into an existing race.

    This genuinely just feels like going back in time and arguing about Vampire Coast again where so many people said it would just be Harkon in a LP for the Counts and that he doesn't make sense as his own race and there aren't enough other characters to have the Coast be it's on thing and so on.
    This post does the usual internet non-sense of trying to combine and relate a myriad of views into one body that don’t even exist as no one person is saying them.

    But if arguing with the fake arguments in your head is how you get through life, you do you
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,060

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Legions of Nagash- factors in one main LL with his most ardent supporter being in TK faction.

    Meanwhile DoW=100 ways to do it because the lore is already there along with the models(the human portion and the mix of halflings/ogres/amazons/goblins/etc) .

    People keep saying for instance that DoW is generic humans, but forget that this is the easy way to get in other factions that would normally not get in. You think CA will release a full halfling race? A full Albion race? A full Amazons race? They won't.

    But yeah let's have Legions of Undead again, with a mix of TK and Undead cookie-cutter units and claim DoW is ''generic humans''. No hypocrisy at all.
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Except you are talking about One lord who already has acceptable homes, who’s friends already belong to those homes in game.

    So there also seems to be people with massive blinders on when it comes to how reasonable it is to create a new faction for an extremely limited lord pool with other factions already fighting for those Lords versus the homeless lords of someone like Kislev.

    So it's unreasonable to expand on something that has some actual characters and lore but hoping for things like Nippon and Ind are fine?

    People have written endless explanations on why they don't think Nagash would fit well in the existing races not to mention those races all have other options. If they were actually hinting at The Nameless that adds another spanner in the works when it comes to sorting out Nagash into an existing race.

    This genuinely just feels like going back in time and arguing about Vampire Coast again where so many people said it would just be Harkon in a LP for the Counts and that he doesn't make sense as his own race and there aren't enough other characters to have the Coast be it's on thing and so on.
    This post does the usual internet non-sense of trying to combine and relate a myriad of views into one body that don’t even exist as no one person is saying them.

    But if arguing with the fake arguments in your head is how you get through life, you do you
    Lol sure whatever just throw everything out when you were starting with the nonsense. People have explained endlessly why they think Nagash could come on his own or why they think and the counter arguments are usually just "Not enough content, lord pack at best, put him in the VC since he is undead" on repeat and then everyone devolves into personal attacks.

    Why is it so unreasonable to want something that GW themselves originally said was supposed to be the 3rd undead race, in a game where we are getting a ton of brand new things? Why are we going to cram Nagash into the VC who already has too many potential characters or TK who is liable to get a single lord pack at most and has actual TK characters that they should get? If the Nameless thing was a hint, where the hell is he going to go?
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653
    KronusX said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Legions of Nagash- factors in one main LL with his most ardent supporter being in TK faction.

    Meanwhile DoW=100 ways to do it because the lore is already there along with the models(the human portion and the mix of halflings/ogres/amazons/goblins/etc) .

    People keep saying for instance that DoW is generic humans, but forget that this is the easy way to get in other factions that would normally not get in. You think CA will release a full halfling race? A full Albion race? A full Amazons race? They won't.

    But yeah let's have Legions of Undead again, with a mix of TK and Undead cookie-cutter units and claim DoW is ''generic humans''. No hypocrisy at all.
    Did I insult DoW? Did I say I don't think we should get them or that they are "generic humans"? Did I not just say why I think the "Nagash is nothing but copying and pasting units from omexistimg races" thing is silly?
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,060

    KronusX said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Legions of Nagash- factors in one main LL with his most ardent supporter being in TK faction.

    Meanwhile DoW=100 ways to do it because the lore is already there along with the models(the human portion and the mix of halflings/ogres/amazons/goblins/etc) .

    People keep saying for instance that DoW is generic humans, but forget that this is the easy way to get in other factions that would normally not get in. You think CA will release a full halfling race? A full Albion race? A full Amazons race? They won't.

    But yeah let's have Legions of Undead again, with a mix of TK and Undead cookie-cutter units and claim DoW is ''generic humans''. No hypocrisy at all.
    Did I insult DoW? Did I say I don't think we should get them or that they are "generic humans"? Did I not just say why I think the "Nagash is nothing but copying and pasting units from omexistimg races" thing is silly?
    Not talking about you though, talking about the general argument when people say they want ''Legions of Nagash'' instead of 'DoW''.
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653
    KronusX said:

    KronusX said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Legions of Nagash- factors in one main LL with his most ardent supporter being in TK faction.

    Meanwhile DoW=100 ways to do it because the lore is already there along with the models(the human portion and the mix of halflings/ogres/amazons/goblins/etc) .

    People keep saying for instance that DoW is generic humans, but forget that this is the easy way to get in other factions that would normally not get in. You think CA will release a full halfling race? A full Albion race? A full Amazons race? They won't.

    But yeah let's have Legions of Undead again, with a mix of TK and Undead cookie-cutter units and claim DoW is ''generic humans''. No hypocrisy at all.
    Did I insult DoW? Did I say I don't think we should get them or that they are "generic humans"? Did I not just say why I think the "Nagash is nothing but copying and pasting units from omexistimg races" thing is silly?
    Not talking about you though, talking about the general argument when people say they want ''Legions of Nagash'' instead of 'DoW''.
    I mean I want Legions of Nagash more than DoW since I don't really like but I don't want them INSTEAD of DoW. I know other people want DoW a lot so we should get them. I find the exclusionary thing annoying and ridiculous. It doesn't have to be one or the other and it just makes everyone angry.

    I just think we can get both and frankly the arguments about why we aren't getting one or the other just read like personal preference.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,060

    KronusX said:

    KronusX said:

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Legions of Nagash- factors in one main LL with his most ardent supporter being in TK faction.

    Meanwhile DoW=100 ways to do it because the lore is already there along with the models(the human portion and the mix of halflings/ogres/amazons/goblins/etc) .

    People keep saying for instance that DoW is generic humans, but forget that this is the easy way to get in other factions that would normally not get in. You think CA will release a full halfling race? A full Albion race? A full Amazons race? They won't.

    But yeah let's have Legions of Undead again, with a mix of TK and Undead cookie-cutter units and claim DoW is ''generic humans''. No hypocrisy at all.
    Did I insult DoW? Did I say I don't think we should get them or that they are "generic humans"? Did I not just say why I think the "Nagash is nothing but copying and pasting units from omexistimg races" thing is silly?
    Not talking about you though, talking about the general argument when people say they want ''Legions of Nagash'' instead of 'DoW''.
    I mean I want Legions of Nagash more than DoW since I don't really like but I don't want them INSTEAD of DoW. I know other people want DoW a lot so we should get them. I find the exclusionary thing annoying and ridiculous. It doesn't have to be one or the other and it just makes everyone angry.

    I just think we can get both and frankly the arguments about why we aren't getting one or the other just read like personal preference.
    Realistically we should, but based on what I see regarding Warhammer 3, my fears of getting any are getting bigger by the day.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 955

    It's honestly kind of weird to me how people hate on the possibility of Legions of Nagash by saying they don't have much to go on. We are in the Era of having 6 races on release with none of them having had their own armybook and one (and half of of Kislev) of them basically made from scratch by GW.

    If GW wants to do something with Nagash there will likely be new stuff. For all we know they are planning on adding some Legions stuff to The Old World because a couple of the ancient horrors that serve Nagash are trying to revive him during that time period or something.

    It's like the Hobgoblin Khans thing where people complain they are too similar to Goblins and don't have enough content when if they are added its because GW has something planned for The Old World which would mean a ton of new stuff.

    Except you are talking about One lord who already has acceptable homes, who’s friends already belong to those homes in game.

    So there also seems to be people with massive blinders on when it comes to how reasonable it is to create a new faction for an extremely limited lord pool with other factions already fighting for those Lords versus the homeless lords of someone like Kislev.

    So it's unreasonable to expand on something that has some actual characters and lore but hoping for things like Nippon and Ind are fine?

    People have written endless explanations on why they don't think Nagash would fit well in the existing races not to mention those races all have other options. If they were actually hinting at The Nameless that adds another spanner in the works when it comes to sorting out Nagash into an existing race.

    This genuinely just feels like going back in time and arguing about Vampire Coast again where so many people said it would just be Harkon in a LP for the Counts and that he doesn't make sense as his own race and there aren't enough other characters to have the Coast be it's on thing and so on.
    This post does the usual internet non-sense of trying to combine and relate a myriad of views into one body that don’t even exist as no one person is saying them.

    But if arguing with the fake arguments in your head is how you get through life, you do you
    Lol sure whatever just throw everything out when you were starting with the nonsense. People have explained endlessly why they think Nagash could come on his own or why they think and the counter arguments are usually just "Not enough content, lord pack at best, put him in the VC since he is undead" on repeat and then everyone devolves into personal attacks.

    Why is it so unreasonable to want something that GW themselves originally said was supposed to be the 3rd undead race, in a game where we are getting a ton of brand new things? Why are we going to cram Nagash into the VC who already has too many potential characters or TK who is liable to get a single lord pack at most and has actual TK characters that they should get? If the Nameless thing was a hint, where the hell is he going to go?
    And you do it again.

    I call you out on stapling things together that I’m not seeing people post together and then you respond with more of it.

    You’re just being disingenuous saying “why can’t I want this” when I never said you can’t, nor did I read it elsewhere. It’s a criticism of you taking people’s speculations and thoughts and turning them into arguments they aren’t even making.

    I think it might not happen in the way people want, and I also still think it could be the pre-order because that’s not set in stone as Ogres like some think. Thinking something might not happen and stated why is different then stating it can’t happen, which is what you are reacting too in bad faith.
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,653
    edited September 2021
    @EarthDragon you literally started off by not addressing what I was saying and then your responses since have devolved into nothing personal insults.

    You know what, I think we are both being a bit of an ****. You think I'm making up arguments that no one has made and I think you are just strawmanning and ignoring my original point, so how about we both just and let it be?

    Or better yet let's just both come up with a list of bullet points and exchange those and do point by point breakdowns. How about we both just cool down and have a more constructive conversation without insults?
    Post edited by HedonistHound on
  • ErathilErathil Registered Users Posts: 1,241

    Erathil said:

    I have never seen a compelling vision for what a Legions of Nagash playable race would look like.

    Yes you have, or you haven't looked very far. You just don't like it.
    They have failed to compel.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Forlì, ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 2,931
    Erathil said:

    Erathil said:

    I have never seen a compelling vision for what a Legions of Nagash playable race would look like.

    Yes you have, or you haven't looked very far. You just don't like it.
    They have failed to compel.
    They didn't fail with me though.
    No, i also dislike Garth Ennis. He is very juvenile and raunchy, and some of his statements are utterly ridiculous, like Captain America being offensive to WWII veterans when his co-creator, Jack Kirby, served in the war and soldiers liked his stories.

    If you think using your abilities to help and inspire people is childish, then i feel sorry for you.
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