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Empire Knights vs Norscan Berserkers & the Cav Beta

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Comments

  • eumaies#1128eumaies#1128 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,518
    the whole thread is pretty silly. berserkers are unusually good at charging stuff. they can also be killed by a stiff breeze. it doesn't have any larger meaning.
  • BovineKingBovineKing Registered Users Posts: 962
    Berzerkers have very real weaknesses already they also are not good vs everything make them fight anything that relies more heavily on physical resistance see if they still do nearly as well.
  • Spellbound1875#4610Spellbound1875#4610 Registered Users Posts: 2,047
    So wait, you're complaining that berserkers trade well when braced against cycle charging? Bracing is supposed to be beneficial defensively and for a unit which has similar cost and is offensively focused it's not surprising that they'd do well. High WS is high WS and it isn't surprising or inappropriate that it results in a positive trade over what is effectively sustained combat with cavalry.

    However you could still get better results by just counter charging. For the non-ap berserkers they come out slightly ahead of empire knights and notably ahead against more expensive cav on the value trade. As far as I can tell the slight increase to impact damage has not changed the balance between infantry and cavalry on the charge which still strongly favors infantry.

  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    "Between 10 and 20" is massively excessive for a unit that has 38 MA. That means they are on the level of Goblins against anything that isn't infantry and yet cost 550g more. Plus you want them to lose even more MA if they fight large units with the "dazed" thing.

    Yeah, it's clear you have not the faintest clue about unit balance and are just trying to settle a grudge by punishing a unit that was used against you successfully. That by itself can never be a valid reason for massive balance changes.

    Good sir I have 2,7 K hours in the game. I have beaten things with Berserkers, beaten Berserkers and been beaten by Berserkers. I've done them all. I just don't like how the Berserkers are designed. There's no grudge. Also they are nowhere near goblins(in terms of melee attack) because you are forgetting their berserk ability aswell as frenzy. Maybe you struggle with the concept of balance aswell ^^.
    Ah, now we are getting it, you think your hours in the game should confer some sort of seniority and privilege upon you, eh? I know that attitude from people who do PvP in MMOs a lot and think that having more hours into a game should replace skill as a factor in fights.

    Yeah no, it's clear you just want to punish Norsca because you lost a match against them and blame it on game balance rather than on any mistakes you made, and considering that EMP vs Norsca is EMP favored, it were your mistakes or the superior skill of your opponent that led to the loss.

    Your suggestion has no merit, just accept it.
  • ThibixMagnus#8300ThibixMagnus#8300 Registered Users Posts: 860
    edited September 2021

    So wait, you're complaining that berserkers trade well when braced against cycle charging? Bracing is supposed to be beneficial defensively and for a unit which has similar cost and is offensively focused it's not surprising that they'd do well. High WS is high WS and it isn't surprising or inappropriate that it results in a positive trade over what is effectively sustained combat with cavalry.

    However you could still get better results by just counter charging. For the non-ap berserkers they come out slightly ahead of empire knights and notably ahead against more expensive cav on the value trade. As far as I can tell the slight increase to impact damage has not changed the balance between infantry and cavalry on the charge which still strongly favors infantry.

    it would seem that very fast paced cycle charging (<5 seconds) is now quite beneficial for cav in the beta? Like the inf damage is merely delayed but you can get out before? I really don't like that design for heavy cav (I want it buffed in a different way) but it seems like a noticeable change if that's the case. Though in this case empire knights are slow so maybe not the best at fast paced cycle charging.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 10,000
    I wonder how significantly those light cav of 90+ speed gets buffed by this
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 7,031
    Light cav is nerfed still significantly compared to 1.10.2 because they take guaranteed return damage from any infantry unit because they have low armour and all types of infantry deal good damage to them.

    Heavy cav will likewise always trade worse than in 1.10.2 vs ap infantry for the same reason, trading down, but it's much better in the last beta compared to 1.12.0.
    Don't fear the knockdown. Control it. Embrace it. Love it! :smile:
  • Spellbound1875#4610Spellbound1875#4610 Registered Users Posts: 2,047

    So wait, you're complaining that berserkers trade well when braced against cycle charging? Bracing is supposed to be beneficial defensively and for a unit which has similar cost and is offensively focused it's not surprising that they'd do well. High WS is high WS and it isn't surprising or inappropriate that it results in a positive trade over what is effectively sustained combat with cavalry.

    However you could still get better results by just counter charging. For the non-ap berserkers they come out slightly ahead of empire knights and notably ahead against more expensive cav on the value trade. As far as I can tell the slight increase to impact damage has not changed the balance between infantry and cavalry on the charge which still strongly favors infantry.

    it would seem that very fast paced cycle charging (<5 seconds) is now quite beneficial for cav in the beta? Like the inf damage is merely delayed but you can get out before? I really don't like that design for heavy cav (I want it buffed in a different way) but it seems like a noticeable change if that's the case. Though in this case empire knights are slow so maybe not the best at fast paced cycle charging.</p>
    This is correct but charges still result in cost inefficient trades for cav in most circumstances which makes bracing a worse option for infantry than counter charging generally speaking. It's better than both the previous beta and the patch before the change but the same issue is still present.

    It's a good change but it is still insufficient because the increase in infantry damage hasn't been meaningfully compensated for post Rakarth patch.
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