Lietpold the Black would be the perfect DoW LL to represent the Border Princes

Captain_Rex#1635

Lietpold the Black

Lore:

Rules:

Mini:

Source:
Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos

Commissar_G#7535

I don't disagree per se. I've just always had a soft spot for Morgan Bernhardt.

Captain_Rex#1635

Commissar_G said:

I don't disagree per se. I've just always had a soft spot for Morgan Bernhardt.

Understandable. I personally doubt we’ll see him tho because of copy right issues. I never played the game, but I understand why people want him as a LL.

Lietpold on the other hand is just there, has a model, rules and is part of the Tamurkhan book.

MiniaAr#5798

What is the source of the screens?

Mr_Finley7#4571

Yessssssssss. One of the coolest characters created by later gen GW

mecanojavi99#6562

While my heart lies with Gashnag, I admit that Lietpold would be the most likely candidate, specially because it would cover the role of Cavalry LL of the race.

And he even has a model that CA can use.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Commissar_G#7535

Schwarzhelm said:

Agreed!

On a side note I always wonder what units DoW will use.
A mix of all the existing races or something else?

He could have the generic DoW roster + 3 Empire units. We already have this precadent with Ariel, Sartosa and Arkhan.

Free Company, Handguns or something and one of the Knightly Orders. Blazing sun if we have nothing else by then. (Fits with the Southern Realm theme).

mecanojavi99#6562

Schwarzhelm said:

Agreed!

On a side note I always wonder what units DoW will use.
A mix of all the existing races or something else?

DoW themselves had an army list in their last appearance that was more like a full mercenary army, instead of only RoR.

You could also always take some of the RoR and make generic units based of them, like the Birdmen of Catrazza and you get normal Birdmen.

And then the cults of Morr and Myrmidia have their places of power there, and if you add Marienburg to the DoW/ST race you can also throw in Mannan, gaining access to 3 cults from which to take units.

The options are there, it just depends on GW/CA preferences.

Commissar_G#7535

KuntingWarrior said:

Diggin the aesthetics of this bloke and his faithful steed.

You know a man loves his steed when there's more gold on it than himself.

Red_Dox#2328

If the Border Princes would stay as they are (province wise), I think Lietpold would be a good LL there. Assuming they would in the end share an army roster with Tilea/Estalia under Dogs of War influences.

*If* for example game#3 campaign map will include the Southern realms and might rework their provinces, we could still maybe add some more names. Two famous already were already mentioned.

1. Morgan Bernhard and his Grdugebringers would be awesome.
   
2. While Gashnag the Black Prince, would work as a rather diverse influence. Depending if CA want to use him as a Strigoi Vampire Count with access to some mortal DoW troops, or rather as a DoW General with access to some Undead tropps.
   

Its also possible, that *if* the game#3 campaign map allows it, random LLs might pop up in the Southern realms since anybody could be doing whatever down there. Kislevs future lords for example might not all be thrown around the northern part of the map. And we have no idea how many or which might roll out after obvious Katarin and then already nuKislev Kostaltyn. The current "Old World" 2200 IC map sparking this topic to some degree, also throws 1-2 Kislevites into the south (not 100% sure with the snek one, but the shield form goes into the same direction then apparently the "Orthodoxy" one from Kislev).

Which is of course totally irrelevant for the Border Princes of 2500 IC or TWW, but still leaves open the option to put a future Kiselv Exile noble into the south for TWW map diversity.
And while musing about some weirdos form far away nations to be dropped randomly across the map, we might assume that Cathay will get boring with the royal family in all four corners just to have 4 pretty similar dragon transformer LLs + maybe a Monkey King further south in Ind, but maybe some Cathay human noble could also get scattered around.

Knowing the actual campaign map and the borders would be make things more clear. But apparently CA is in no hurry to show us even a glimpse of said map.

-----Red Dox

Commissar_G#7535

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

mecanojavi99#6562

Red_Dox said:

If the Border Princes would stay as they are (province wise), I think Lietpold would be a good LL there. Assuming they would in the end share an army roster with Tilea/Estalia under Dogs of War influences.

*If* for example game#3 campaign map will include the Southern realms and might rework their provinces, we could still maybe add some more names. Two famous already were already mentioned.

1. Morgan Bernhard and his Grdugebringers would be awesome.
   
2. While Gashnag the Black Prince, would work as a rather diverse influence. Depending if CA want to use him as a Strigoi Vampire Count with access to some mortal DoW troops, or rather as a DoW General with access to some Undead tropps.
   

Its also possible, that *if* the game#3 campaign map allows it, random LLs might pop up in the Southern realms since anybody could be doing whatever down there. Kislevs future lords for example might not all be thrown around the northern part of the map. And we have no idea how many or which might roll out after obvious Katarin and then already nuKislev Kostaltyn. The current "Old World" 2200 IC map sparking this topic to some degree, also throws 1-2 Kislevites into the south (not 100% sure with the snek one, but the shield form goes into the same direction then apparently the "Orthodoxy" one from Kislev).

Which is of course totally irrelevant for the Border Princes of 2500 IC or TWW, but still leaves open the option to put a future Kiselv Exile noble into the south for TWW map diversity.
And while musing about some weirdos form far away nations to be dropped randomly across the map, we might assume that Cathay will get boring with the royal family in all four corners just to have 4 pretty similar dragon transformer LLs + maybe a Monkey King further south in Ind, but maybe some Cathay human noble could also get scattered around.

Knowing the actual campaign map and the borders would be make things more clear. But apparently CA is in no hurry to show us even a glimpse of said map.

-----Red Dox

The Serpent one is 100% Tilean, in the big discussion we had, @Commissar_G found out it is the symbol of a real world Italian city.

MiniaAr#5798

Did somebody doubt that Aquilena was Italian Tilean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchate_of_Aquileia

Captain_Rex#1635

Schwarzhelm said:

Agreed!

On a side note I always wonder what units DoW will use.
A mix of all the existing races or something else?

I expect them to look similar to their armybook where all the unique Regiments will also be basic units. So a mainly tilean human roster with the ability to recruit foreign mercenaries similar to Carthage in Rome 2.

Captain_Rex#1635

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Yap I definitely expect at least a NPC Kislev faction down there. Maybe even a LL at some point.

Captain_Rex#1635

Commissar_G said:

Schwarzhelm said:

Agreed!

On a side note I always wonder what units DoW will use.
A mix of all the existing races or something else?

He could have the generic DoW roster + 3 Empire units. We already have this precadent with Ariel, Sartosa and Arkhan.

Free Company, Handguns or something and one of the Knightly Orders. Blazing sun if we have nothing else by then. (Fits with the Southern Realm theme).

Pretty much what I had in mind. Giving him access to a few empire units would really make him a fun faction.

mecanojavi99#6562

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Considering that all the crests we see are of Rogue nobles and not of official setlements of those races, I don't expect the Kislevites there to follow the same doctrines and army composition of Kislev, yes some proper Kislevite units here an there but most likely the bulk of their armies would be mercenaries and outcasts from all over the place, so it would not really be a Kislev faction, but a ST/DoW faction with Kislev flavour.

Captain_Rex#1635

mecanojavi99 said:

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Considering that all the crests we see are of Rogue nobles and not of official setlements of those races, I don't expect the Kislevites there to follow the same doctrines and army composition of Kislev, yes some proper Kislevite units here an there but most likely the bulk of their armies would be mercenaries and outcasts from all over the place, so it would not really be a Kislev faction, but a ST/DoW faction with Kislev flavour.

Tbf the Settlers coast also isn’t officially part of any Tilean or Estalian City state. Except Santa Magritta and Nuovo Luccini which aren’t on the map currently.

The settlers coast are basically just Pirates and Outlaws.

CA loves to spice up the map with placeholders. That’s why we got Dwarfs in Araby and Lustria.

So a Kislev faction down in the PB would really make that area more diverse and interesting.

In the end I expect the reworked BP to have:
- 1 Empire faction
- 1 Bretonnia faction
- 1 Kislev faction
- 1-2 DoW/SR factions

Commissar_G#7535

ArneSo said:

mecanojavi99 said:

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Considering that all the crests we see are of Rogue nobles and not of official setlements of those races, I don't expect the Kislevites there to follow the same doctrines and army composition of Kislev, yes some proper Kislevite units here an there but most likely the bulk of their armies would be mercenaries and outcasts from all over the place, so it would not really be a Kislev faction, but a ST/DoW faction with Kislev flavour.

Tbf the Settlers coast also isn’t officially part of any Tilean or Estalian City state. Except Santa Magritta and Nuovo Luccini which aren’t on the map currently.

The settlers coast are basically just Pirates and Outlaws.

CA loves to spice up the map with placeholders. That’s why we got Dwarfs in Araby and Lustria.

So a Kislev faction down in the PB would really make that area more diverse and interesting.

In the end I expect the reworked BP to have:
- 1 Empire faction
- 1 Bretonnia faction
- 1 Kislev faction
- 1-2 DoW/SR factions

The Border Princes is so sparse currently that you could easily add 4 settlements to the two provinces and it wouldn't even be overcrowded.

Red_Dox#2328

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Depends how they will be implemented and for what purposes. Assuming we get TEB through DoW: Lets muse we get four DoW LLs, then I would put two into Tilea, one in Estalia and one into the Border Princes in their more or less current state. Which for game 3 campaign would of course be pretty crowded in a map part which might not have much sway about the real centre of action. We know that we can place one or two around the Dark Lands or maybe even in Cathay for mercenary outposts, opening up space in the Southern Realms for whaveter outcast from Cathy/Kislev.
Things get even more wicked regarding (Im)Mortal Empires, were we would have the New World colonies for some DoW drops to also spice up diversity in the terror dome. Which could also work out better, *if* in the new (I)ME CA does rework the Lustria part more to Vortex size, including southern sea travel route

Regarding the balance question, it might depend how the world would shape up *later*. We mused already during game#2 that Mourkhain should get some Strigoi love which would add another "destruction" threat into the badlands to threaten maybe the northern Borders if not getting swallowed by the greentide. We also harbor some hopes for Nagashizzar which is still near enough to the Border Princes to have some influence. *If* the Southern realm would be expanded and filled with DoW and maybe some Order outcasts, the Order strength might be tighten at first glance but DoW should be mercenaries in nature anyway. Grimgors Greentide does not care either way, same for Skavenblight or the Beastmen still spawing in Tilea. Empire and Dwarfs could make new friends here, or new enemies depending on the Diplomacy overhaul we have to expect with game#3.
Currently, I would not think that it will change too much even if we would throw a Cathay and a Kislev outcast down there. Of course if the starting game#3 meta would make the new core races again IMBA for years before reworks will help the older ones, it might have more impact then assumed now. But even then longterm with reworks and new DLC additions for example Greenksins or Skaven, the assumed Order bulwark could again be threatend in the Southern Realms.

------Red Dox

Captain_Rex#1635

Commissar_G said:

ArneSo said:

mecanojavi99 said:

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Considering that all the crests we see are of Rogue nobles and not of official setlements of those races, I don't expect the Kislevites there to follow the same doctrines and army composition of Kislev, yes some proper Kislevite units here an there but most likely the bulk of their armies would be mercenaries and outcasts from all over the place, so it would not really be a Kislev faction, but a ST/DoW faction with Kislev flavour.

Tbf the Settlers coast also isn’t officially part of any Tilean or Estalian City state. Except Santa Magritta and Nuovo Luccini which aren’t on the map currently.

The settlers coast are basically just Pirates and Outlaws.

CA loves to spice up the map with placeholders. That’s why we got Dwarfs in Araby and Lustria.

So a Kislev faction down in the PB would really make that area more diverse and interesting.

In the end I expect the reworked BP to have:
- 1 Empire faction
- 1 Bretonnia faction
- 1 Kislev faction
- 1-2 DoW/SR factions

The Border Princes is so sparse currently that you could easily add 4 settlements to the two provinces and it wouldn't even be overcrowded.

Absolutely or even add a third province plus additional settlements for the existing ones.

Seriously, the Black Peninsula around Myrmydens could easily be it’s own province with 1 new settlements in it.

Captain_Rex#1635

Red_Dox said:

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Depends how they will be implemented and for what purposes. Assuming we get TEB through DoW: Lets muse we get four DoW LLs, then I would put two into Tilea, one in Estalia and one into the Border Princes in their more or less current state. Which for game 3 campaign would of course be pretty crowded in a map part which might not have much sway about the real centre of action. We know that we can place one or two around the Dark Lands or maybe even in Cathay for mercenary outposts, opening up space in the Southern Realms for whaveter outcast from Cathy/Kislev.
Things get even more wicked regarding (Im)Mortal Empires, were we would have the New World colonies for some DoW drops to also spice up diversity in the terror dome. Which could also work out better, *if* in the new (I)ME CA does rework the Lustria part more to Vortex size, including southern sea travel route

Regarding the balance question, it might depend how the world would shape up *later*. We mused already during game#2 that Mourkhain should get some Strigoi love which would add another "destruction" threat into the badlands to threaten maybe the northern Borders if not getting swallowed by the greentide. We also harbor some hopes for Nagashizzar which is still near enough to the Border Princes to have some influence. *If* the Southern realm would be expanded and filled with DoW and maybe some Order outcasts, the Order strength might be tighten at first glance but DoW should be mercenaries in nature anyway. Grimgors Greentide does not care either way, same for Skavenblight or the Beastmen still spawing in Tilea. Empire and Dwarfs could make new friends here, or new enemies depending on the Diplomacy overhaul we have to expect with game#3.
Currently, I would not think that it will change too much even if we would throw a Cathay and a Kislev outcast down there. Of course if the starting game#3 meta would make the new core races again IMBA for years before reworks will help the older ones, it might have more impact then assumed now. But even then longterm with reworks and new DLC additions for example Greenksins or Skaven, the assumed Order bulwark could again be threatend in the Southern Realms.

------Red Dox

If we get 4 LLs for DoW/TEB I expect:
- Borgio
- Lucrezzia
- Lorenzo
- Lietpold

RIP Mydas 😥


I personally doubt that Tilea will be on the WH3 map but Miragliano will definitely be Borgios start for the combined map.

Then Lietpold in the BP.

Lorenzo and Lucrezzia could easily lead an expedition into the East. Pigbarter and the Sentinels are ideas start positions.

CA might even plays with real world history and places them in Nippon. The Portuguese landed there as the first Europeans and it would be a very interesting Start position for a DoW LL.

I also think Ind is a potential start position since that’s the area where all the spices come from.

So overall there is a lot of potential.

Commissar_G#7535

ArneSo said:

Red_Dox said:

Commissar_G said:

That's an interesting point about a Kislev starting Lord in the Border Princes later down the track Mr Dox.

Wouldn't it upset the balance terrible in favour of order in that area of you include DoW proper finally being added as well though?

Depends how they will be implemented and for what purposes. Assuming we get TEB through DoW: Lets muse we get four DoW LLs, then I would put two into Tilea, one in Estalia and one into the Border Princes in their more or less current state. Which for game 3 campaign would of course be pretty crowded in a map part which might not have much sway about the real centre of action. We know that we can place one or two around the Dark Lands or maybe even in Cathay for mercenary outposts, opening up space in the Southern Realms for whaveter outcast from Cathy/Kislev.
Things get even more wicked regarding (Im)Mortal Empires, were we would have the New World colonies for some DoW drops to also spice up diversity in the terror dome. Which could also work out better, *if* in the new (I)ME CA does rework the Lustria part more to Vortex size, including southern sea travel route

Regarding the balance question, it might depend how the world would shape up *later*. We mused already during game#2 that Mourkhain should get some Strigoi love which would add another "destruction" threat into the badlands to threaten maybe the northern Borders if not getting swallowed by the greentide. We also harbor some hopes for Nagashizzar which is still near enough to the Border Princes to have some influence. *If* the Southern realm would be expanded and filled with DoW and maybe some Order outcasts, the Order strength might be tighten at first glance but DoW should be mercenaries in nature anyway. Grimgors Greentide does not care either way, same for Skavenblight or the Beastmen still spawing in Tilea. Empire and Dwarfs could make new friends here, or new enemies depending on the Diplomacy overhaul we have to expect with game#3.
Currently, I would not think that it will change too much even if we would throw a Cathay and a Kislev outcast down there. Of course if the starting game#3 meta would make the new core races again IMBA for years before reworks will help the older ones, it might have more impact then assumed now. But even then longterm with reworks and new DLC additions for example Greenksins or Skaven, the assumed Order bulwark could again be threatend in the Southern Realms.

------Red Dox

If we get 4 LLs for DoW/TEB I expect:
- Borgio
- Lucrezzia
- Lorenzo
- Lietpold

RIP Mydas 😥


I personally doubt that Tilea will be on the WH3 map but Miragliano will definitely be Borgios start for the combined map.

Then Lietpold in the BP.

Lorenzo and Lucrezzia could easily lead an expedition into the East. Pigbarter and the Sentinels are ideas start positions.

CA might even plays with real world history and places them in Nippon. The Portuguese landed there as the first Europeans and it would be a very interesting Start position for a DoW LL.

I also think Ind is a potential start position since that’s the area where all the spices come from.

So overall there is a lot of potential.

Putting an Estalian in Nippon is a big brain move.

Knowing GW they'd call it Nagasake. @CA_Andy You can steal that one.

PraiseSigmaw

Morgan Bernhardt >>>> Lietpold.

PraiseSigmaw

Morgan Bernhardt >>>> Lietpold.

Captain_Rex#1635

PraiseSigmaw said:

Morgan Bernhardt >>>> Lietpold.

Copyright issues tho.

Red_Dox#2328

mecanojavi99 said:

The Serpent one is 100% Tilean, in the big discussion we had, @Commissar_G found out it is the symbol of a real world Italian city.

I am aware of the

assumption. I just don't jumpt to the same conclusion. We have a lot of shieldfrom in those new map pictures, which align very well with established powers like Bretonnia or even the Empire. Then we have a bunch of shieldforms which do not fit. The "Harkon" one can easily be put aside for Vampire Counts, but that leaves others. We have now several options here. We can assume that Tilea might have several shield symbols itself for their varying city states or that Tilea and Estalia end up in two different shapes or that even more "unknown" factors come up here. The point in the end will be that

this are already three shield forms we can't be exactly sure about. If only one shows Tilea and one shows Estalia, you have one shield problem left. The snek one, does at least seem very close to the 2nd Kislev shape, hence I do not rule that possibility out, even if I am not happy with that idea either.

And using sea sneks on shields...


Even 40k Orks manage that


-----Red Dox

Commissar_G#7535

Red_Dox said:

mecanojavi99 said:

The Serpent one is 100% Tilean, in the big discussion we had, @Commissar_G found out it is the symbol of a real world Italian city.

I am aware of the

assumption. I just don't jumpt to the same conclusion. We have a lot of shieldfrom in those new map pictures, which align very well with established powers like Bretonnia or even the Empire. Then we have a bunch of shieldforms which do not fit. The "Harkon" one can easily be put aside for Vampire Counts, but that leaves others. We have now several options here. We can assume that Tilea might have several shield symbols itself for their varying city states or that Tilea and Estalia end up in two different shapes or that even more "unknown" factors come up here. The point in the end will be that

this are already three shield forms we can't be exactly sure about. If only one shows Tilea and one shows Estalia, you have one shield problem left. The snek one, does at least seem very close to the 2nd Kislev shape, hence I do not rule that possibility out, even if I am not happy with that idea either.

And using sea sneks on shields...


Even 40k Orks manage that


-----Red Dox

The reason I used the particular picture I did is the coat of arms structure even matched. The problem with your HE ones is we know what both HE shields and banners look like.

The Milanese one matched in both structure and substance.

Red_Dox#2328

Commissar_G said:

Red_Dox said:

mecanojavi99 said:

The Serpent one is 100% Tilean, in the big discussion we had, @Commissar_G found out it is the symbol of a real world Italian city.

I am aware of the

assumption. I just don't jumpt to the same conclusion. We have a lot of shieldfrom in those new map pictures, which align very well with established powers like Bretonnia or even the Empire. Then we have a bunch of shieldforms which do not fit. The "Harkon" one can easily be put aside for Vampire Counts, but that leaves others. We have now several options here. We can assume that Tilea might have several shield symbols itself for their varying city states or that Tilea and Estalia end up in two different shapes or that even more "unknown" factors come up here. The point in the end will be that

this are already three shield forms we can't be exactly sure about. If only one shows Tilea and one shows Estalia, you have one shield problem left. The snek one, does at least seem very close to the 2nd Kislev shape, hence I do not rule that possibility out, even if I am not happy with that idea either.

And using sea sneks on shields...


Even 40k Orks manage that


-----Red Dox

The reason I used the particular picture I did is the coat of arms structure even matched. The problem with your HE ones is we know what both HE shields and banners look like.

The Milanese one matched in both structure and substance.

OK, first, your RL example applying to a fantasy map with fantasy symbols works only to some degree. The RL shileldform is barely reasonable here. The actual argumentation is "RL was set around ther so it can apply". Can, yes. Have to? Well, not with all those other flags around taht make no sense including the immortal Vampire.
Second, you would still have the three shield forms conundrum. So your whole theory probably sails already off into "Tilea must have more then one shield form" and that is currently unprovable. Not impossible, but while Empire and Kislev have various shield form for their factions, Bretonnia rather looks unified despite its Dukedoms. Until GW shows us Tiela city stated divided into a bunch of different shield-factions, hard to say whats what.
Third point to made while insisting the RL example must be the winner of the guesswork, brings up the question why the snake facing the wrong direction and NOT eating a person is not already a serious shade over the whole theory? I mean you can't be 100% sure this HAS to be the case, if the friggin symbol does not even match 1:1 If we go by simple similarity, can we really dismiss some elven High Elf noble in exile making a living under a snake banner?
We can also be picky about the shield form here itself. Because the RL example you brought up looks a bit more round on the top, then the fantasy image counterpart.
Which brings me then back to the 2nd Kislev shield theory, where it could be argued that shield form is also not 1:1 fitting, but imo closer then the RL example. And at least would the Kislev shield be on the same fantasy map in the first place for a comparision.

I don't know which theory is right, maybe none and the Snake will be a Araby shield in the end. We can argue here in circles but everyone claiming it can't be Kislev, should also see the holes around the Milan theory which denies a 100% certainty for that.

------Red Dox

xBlood_Raven#5120

The Dogs of War/Southern Realms have some really interesting LLs and I want them all to be honest. Both Lietpold and Morgan Bernhardt would be amazing for the Border Princes. I mean, even Jaego Roth could be a LL considering the Marienburg Land Ship as a potential mount (although start him in Tilea for a revenge plot against Noctilus) .

Either way, the Old World news on the Border Princes is excellent. It could make the region a random start every campaign where the game picks a mix of Empire, Bretonnian, Southern Realms, Kislev, etc Lords to populate the region.

On another note, I personally think the Dogs of War/Southern Realms have not appeared yet due to the eastern trade routes as this would give the mercenaries an objective to strive for.