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Something we've missed in the siege rework video

kratostatic#8948kratostatic#8948 Registered Users Posts: 1,053
Don't think I've seen anyone talking about this:



(3:16 in the siege rework tralier)

Basically it looks like "docking" units in barracades actually gives them buffs. In this case the archers get a 20% range increase. Or possibly nearby units do, the tooltip confuses me slightly.
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Comments

  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237
    People have been making fun of walls for this reason also (and the fact that melee units, before reaching those archers, must smash said barricade).
    So yeah, they've noticed. At least most people.
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778
    What most people apparently HAVEN'T noticed is that docking is the thing you do on walls and these are bennies for docking so walls get them too.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,790
    Cool.

    That's a nice buff for units on walls and units docking.
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  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    People have noticed.

    And they also noticed that units don't have pocket footstools or pocket shovels and therefore can't just climb over a bunch of rubble piled up in the streets. So debris > walls and that SUCKS!
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778

    People have noticed.

    And they also noticed that units don't have pocket footstools or pocket shovels and therefore can't just climb over a bunch of rubble piled up in the streets. So debris > walls and that SUCKS!

    Except people have literally said that the bennies are only for barricades and that makes walls worse.

    IF it was just "oh, you can't keep anything on the walls for long enough" that'd be one thing, but that's not at all what I'm seeing.

    And, frankly, having archers on the walls getting one or two extra volleys off before they have to fall back is still good.

    Also, I'll note that we didn't see ladders going up everywhere, we only saw two units pulling ladders at all. So I think it's a bit early to say "You can obviously ladder all the walls and it's not going to do Troy's thing".

    And, even if not, frankly, I'll take pocket ladders over "I send some Harpies over and the ladders get dropped to fight and now they can't get in HAHAHAHAHA"
  • Jman5#8318Jman5#8318 Registered Users Posts: 2,169
    It stands to reason that wall docking will give benefits on par with deployable docking. Perhaps even moreso.

    We also know there are going to be fort-wide buffs for defenders. I believe in the video it was a +15% melee defense buff.
  • AdmTD#7059AdmTD#7059 Registered Users Posts: 115
    edited October 2021
    Maybe we can expect some buffs on the wall too.


    I mean, it doesn't make sense for a barricade to have a buff and a wall not to.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,070

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Range increase shall be applied to wall instead of barricades.

    20% just for barricades is too much. It should be implemented when you are on top of wall since walls are higher platform.
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778
    jamreal18 said:

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Range increase shall be applied to wall instead of barricades.

    20% just for barricades is too much. It should be implemented when you are on top of wall since walls are higher platform.

    People have noticed.

    And they also noticed that units don't have pocket footstools or pocket shovels and therefore can't just climb over a bunch of rubble piled up in the streets. So debris > walls and that SUCKS!

    BEHOLD.

    People saying docking bennies aren't for walls.

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Again, harpies, make them drop ladder to fight, AI never picks ANYTHING back up, now the enemy army can't get in.
  • MODIDDLY1#9212MODIDDLY1#9212 Registered Users Posts: 1,351
    Ethorin said:

    jamreal18 said:

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Again, harpies, make them drop ladder to fight, AI never picks ANYTHING back up, now the enemy army can't get in.
    Ok, then just have it be a constructable that allows you to give 4 units the ladders that will have an icon above their heads marking they have ladders. That way they don't just drop the ladder when attacked, and if all siege equipment is destroyed without breaching the wall, force retreat to try again
  • overtaker40#8926overtaker40#8926 Registered Users Posts: 1,177
    It also looks like the unit "shadows" (dont know the correct term) are clearer so positioning your troops wont require squinting.
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  • #1609#1609 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,544
    Maybe the bonus now also applies to wall?
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778
    MODIDDLY1 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Again, harpies, make them drop ladder to fight, AI never picks ANYTHING back up, now the enemy army can't get in.
    Ok, then just have it be a constructable that allows you to give 4 units the ladders that will have an icon above their heads marking they have ladders. That way they don't just drop the ladder when attacked, and if all siege equipment is destroyed without breaching the wall, force retreat to try again
    An icon over their heads? Like what other mechanic exactly?

    No seriously, where else do we see anything that let's you rapidly identify a banner holding unit?

    Oh btw, for a bunch of people this would STILL be "butt ladders". Apparently would work for you, might answer the problem of the AI, would still get people yelling about it.

    Maybe the bonus now also applies to wall?

    Are you even reading the freakin thread? it's not that long.

    Go watch the video again and listen closely, it's "Docking" the thing you do on walls, that gives the bonus.
  • kratostatic#8948kratostatic#8948 Registered Users Posts: 1,053
    From the video: "A good many of these bridges and overlooks are dockable like the primary walls, giving our soldiers all the buffs and benefits of any other docked unit."

    So yes, this bonus applies to the main walls.
  • NoSkill4U#6552NoSkill4U#6552 Registered Users Posts: 5,160
    jamreal18 said:

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    Range increase shall be applied to wall instead of barricades.

    20% just for barricades is too much. It should be implemented when you are on top of wall since walls are higher platform.
    Yeah, that would make archer spam much less effective!
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,684

    From the video: "A good many of these bridges and overlooks are dockable like the primary walls, giving our soldiers all the buffs and benefits of any other docked unit."

    So yes, this bonus applies to the main walls.

    At least that's heavily implied but not explicitly confirmed. So I'll retain a sliver of caution on buying into that, though it seems ratherlikely.
    As someone dealing with math and science I'm not someone who believes in certainty until after an event has already been observed. :wink:
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778

    From the video: "A good many of these bridges and overlooks are dockable like the primary walls, giving our soldiers all the buffs and benefits of any other docked unit."

    So yes, this bonus applies to the main walls.

    At least that's heavily implied but not explicitly confirmed. So I'll retain a sliver of caution on buying into that, though it seems ratherlikely.
    As someone dealing with math and science I'm not someone who believes in certainty until after an event has already been observed. :wink:
    "any other docked unit" "dockable like the primary walls"

    HOW THE **** DO YOU READ THAT ANY OTHER WAY??????
  • BrynjarKBrynjarK Registered Users Posts: 915
    WHERE THE **** DO YOU READ "DOCKABLE LIKE THE PRIMARY WALLS"???????

    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-siege-rework/

    This is close but not:

    "It makes defensive siege weapons a far more promising prospect, be they firing from the high ground inside a settlement past the outer walls or defending the streets themselves with clever placement."


  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778
    It's in the **** video dude

    when they are talking about barricades and new bits of terrain being "dockable like walls".
  • BrynjarKBrynjarK Registered Users Posts: 915
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,684
    @Ethorin
    Yup, they said all this which strongly indicats it.
    Yet 99.9% aren't 100%. So until they directly (not implicitly) say that this exact bonus is a benefit of walls or docking in general we don't know.
    The statements we've gotten is that docking to those ledges gives the usual bonus, which also indicates that there is such a thing. We also know that barricade - plattform gives +20% range (in the current build!!!!). But it was never stated this actually is "the usual bonus", although (again) it's very likely. The possibility that it's a unique thing of that barricade type remains as they could be dockable (giving that "usual bonus") and give the range bonus on top (doubt it though).
    I admit however, that this is quite a strict and nitpicky approach to logic.

    It ain't confirmed until it's confirmed.
  • Ethorin#1178Ethorin#1178 Registered Users Posts: 778
    @CA_Duck or someone

    Can you please reassure people that saying "dockable like walls" and "the usual bonus" means docking to walls gives the same bonus as docking to things that aren't walls?
  • mightygloin#2446mightygloin#2446 Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 6,123
    edited October 2021

    Maybe the bonus now also applies to wall?

    Makes no sense if it doesn't. With even greater percent i expect so the troops on wall get to shoot a few arrows more before pocket ladders descend on them.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited October 2021
    Ranged troops already get a bonus when on a wall. That won't change anything. Also, why would standing on rubble give you a whopping 20% range increase? Makes no sense at all. Makeshift barricades shouldn't be massive powerboosts to the troops standing on them. It's all so freakin' backwards!

    The ladders have to go or 50%+ of the wall need to be inaccesible for siege equipment like in Troy.
  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,761
    Making a percentage of the wall not accesible to siege equipment is as artificial as pocket ladders
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Pocman said:

    Making a percentage of the wall not accesible to siege equipment is as artificial as pocket ladders

    Troy did it. Works perfectly fine.

    Making walls completely worthless is worse in any case.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,980
    20% range bonus in a siege situation where 80% of the firing arc of units standing on barricades will be blocked by buildings doesn't matter. WTF does CA keep giving offensive bonuses when the main benefit should be defensive bonuses?
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  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,790
    Ichon said:

    20% range bonus in a siege situation where 80% of the firing arc of units standing on barricades will be blocked by buildings doesn't matter. WTF does CA keep giving offensive bonuses when the main benefit should be defensive bonuses?

    A range bonus is a defensive bonus.....
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  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,173

    The only buff for walls necessary is to remove pocket ladders.

    AI won't win a siege then. Just shoot the ladders or send flying units.

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