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Will WH3 address concerns about battle pace ?

BierTempelierBierTempelier Registered Users Posts: 338

The TW-WH engine is a terrific battle engine. However, battle pace can be too fast for many players and feel a bit 'arcady' as has been demonstrated by various player polls. Will TW-WH3 provide with options to slow down combat for those aiming for a bit more strategic RTS or will it ignore this opportunity to right a wrong ?

To be clear - I am not advocating to slow things down as I realize there are also a lot of players enjoying the current pace, nonetheless many others would appreciate playable options at lower pace (other than the sound-muffled slo-mo we have in WH2)

Comments

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 32,054
    Shrug. Maybe.

    I don't know why you're trying to speak for others though.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

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  • epic_162578572945FgdWSzpepic_162578572945FgdWSzp Registered Users Posts: 785
    how would you propose slowing things down? doubling all hp? that could work but it makes it honestly more grindy than anything. slowing movement speeds? i dont know how you could make that work without animations looking like they're in slow motion. increase attack intervals/reload time? it would definitely make things slower but only because the units would spend more time standing around not doing anything. im not saying that you need to be able to come up with the perfect solution or else your whole point is invalid but, i want to know your thoughts on how you might try to approach the issue.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 32,054

    how would you propose slowing things down? doubling all hp? that could work but it makes it honestly more grindy than anything. slowing movement speeds? i dont know how you could make that work without animations looking like they're in slow motion. increase attack intervals/reload time? it would definitely make things slower but only because the units would spend more time standing around not doing anything. im not saying that you need to be able to come up with the perfect solution or else your whole point is invalid but, i want to know your thoughts on how you might try to approach the issue.

    Presumably the answer would be exactly how they did it between TWW1 and TWW2.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster

  • YellowTreeYellowTree Registered Users Posts: 347
    It’s been a bit of a constant progression in total war, especially with Warhammer for battles to be faster.
    People didn’t like constant 40min battles, so here we are. I do prefer the old slower pace like empire/napoleon.
  • YellowTreeYellowTree Registered Users Posts: 347
    I also think the attempt (failed?) at multiplayer ‘esports’ in tw Warhammer lead to the quickening too.
  • epic_162578572945FgdWSzpepic_162578572945FgdWSzp Registered Users Posts: 785

    how would you propose slowing things down? doubling all hp? that could work but it makes it honestly more grindy than anything. slowing movement speeds? i dont know how you could make that work without animations looking like they're in slow motion. increase attack intervals/reload time? it would definitely make things slower but only because the units would spend more time standing around not doing anything. im not saying that you need to be able to come up with the perfect solution or else your whole point is invalid but, i want to know your thoughts on how you might try to approach the issue.

    Presumably the answer would be exactly how they did it between TWW1 and TWW2.
    enlighten me, i didnt start playing this series seriously until this june, what changed?
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 32,054
    edited November 2021

    how would you propose slowing things down? doubling all hp? that could work but it makes it honestly more grindy than anything. slowing movement speeds? i dont know how you could make that work without animations looking like they're in slow motion. increase attack intervals/reload time? it would definitely make things slower but only because the units would spend more time standing around not doing anything. im not saying that you need to be able to come up with the perfect solution or else your whole point is invalid but, i want to know your thoughts on how you might try to approach the issue.

    Presumably the answer would be exactly how they did it between TWW1 and TWW2.
    enlighten me, i didnt start playing this series seriously until this june, what changed?
    A bit of everything. There's probably a post about it somewhere but they altered everything slightly to increase pace by 15%.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,318
    Lol no
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,387
    So I would like longer battles to come back. Not 45 minute grinds. But I don't want it to only take 5-10 minutes either.

    15-20 minutes feels good.

    Even if they leave the timing the EXACT same, I would honestly just like the animations to be less frequent.

    All the jumping and leaping and constant motion in a moshpit that's broken formation is actually kinda arcadey and incoherent to watch. Like, while the graphics and animation quality are way better now....I actually preferred zooming in on older games. It was more conherent to watch formations clash cinematically. Those cool animations should be triggering less frequently imo.
  • KillertutKillertut Registered Users Posts: 715
    i do not think anything will change.
    maybe the battlefield abilities will make it go faster even.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,411
    I play the slow game with Eshin and the fast game with Skryre.. works for me.
  • OddzillaOddzilla Registered Users Posts: 351
    Valkaar said:

    So I would like longer battles to come back. Not 45 minute grinds. But I don't want it to only take 5-10 minutes either.

    15-20 minutes feels good.

    Even if they leave the timing the EXACT same, I would honestly just like the animations to be less frequent.

    All the jumping and leaping and constant motion in a moshpit that's broken formation is actually kinda arcadey and incoherent to watch. Like, while the graphics and animation quality are way better now....I actually preferred zooming in on older games. It was more conherent to watch formations clash cinematically. Those cool animations should be triggering less frequently imo.

    Yeah, no. Every battle being 15-20 minutes does not "feel good". The game is enough of a time sink as is, I don't want every battle to be a 20 min grind. I have other things to do with my life.

    Having combat animations proc less often would mean having models little just standing there in front of their opponent for extended periods. It would look awful and far more "gamey" than anything currently in the game.

    If "constant motion" in a literal battlefield is overwhelming to you, I'd suggest the slo-mo button, or a different game.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,387
    Oddzilla said:

    Valkaar said:

    So I would like longer battles to come back. Not 45 minute grinds. But I don't want it to only take 5-10 minutes either.

    15-20 minutes feels good.

    Even if they leave the timing the EXACT same, I would honestly just like the animations to be less frequent.

    All the jumping and leaping and constant motion in a moshpit that's broken formation is actually kinda arcadey and incoherent to watch. Like, while the graphics and animation quality are way better now....I actually preferred zooming in on older games. It was more conherent to watch formations clash cinematically. Those cool animations should be triggering less frequently imo.

    Yeah, no. Every battle being 15-20 minutes does not "feel good". The game is enough of a time sink as is, I don't want every battle to be a 20 min grind. I have other things to do with my life.

    Having combat animations proc less often would mean having models little just standing there in front of their opponent for extended periods. It would look awful and far more "gamey" than anything currently in the game.

    If "constant motion" in a literal battlefield is overwhelming to you, I'd suggest the slo-mo button, or a different game.
    Some of it is a matter of taste, but MOST RTS titles are usually built around 15-30 games. 5-10 minutes is usually treated as the "early game" of a match. It's not just an older Total War thing, but SC2, AoE IV most recently. It is a commonly preferred pace. Admittedly, no single pace is going to appeal to everyone.

    Also, watching a moshpit isn't 'overwhelming'. It's just not entertaining. It's not that I 'can't handle it', it's that it's not cinematic. Cinematic presentation is important in these things. And units don't have to be "standing still". The animations could just be more reserved on average so the flashy ones catch more attention and are easier to focus on.

    Again, I get some people like the hectic 'Saving Private Ryan'/'Battle of the Bastards' cluster ****. They have their own atmosphere. I personally prefer the 300, LotR, Troy style battles where it's coherent formations and ease of cinematic focus on the standout moves.

    I understand the appeal for each. But I have my preferences and arcadey mosh pits just aren't mine.
  • BierTempelierBierTempelier Registered Users Posts: 338

    Well I think there should be choice in battle pace between the current fast-paced 5-10 minutes per battle and a slower paced counterpart that takes 2-2;5 longer. There are a lot of Mods out there that try to adress this - but at each game update they become outdated. SO there should be something in the game options settings. Part of the solution could be to maintain battle sound when slowing down combat the conventional way. Now sound dissapears when you slow the pace
  • griffithxigriffithxi Registered Users Posts: 1,314

    how would you propose slowing things down? doubling all hp? that could work but it makes it honestly more grindy than anything. slowing movement speeds? i dont know how you could make that work without animations looking like they're in slow motion. increase attack intervals/reload time? it would definitely make things slower but only because the units would spend more time standing around not doing anything. im not saying that you need to be able to come up with the perfect solution or else your whole point is invalid but, i want to know your thoughts on how you might try to approach the issue.

    Presumably the answer would be exactly how they did it between TWW1 and TWW2.
    enlighten me, i didnt start playing this series seriously until this june, what changed?
    If my memory is correct part of what they did last time is lower the base chance to hit for all units before their stats are applied by like 5 percent. So for example if all units before stats had a base chance to hit of 40% it went to 35%

    There may have been side effects of this later on tho because eventually they rebalanced the stats of multi model units with high MD (near or above 60) bringing their MD down a bit and giving them stats elsewhere.
  • IxalmarisIxalmaris Registered Users Posts: 588
    TW, especially since WH, has become more and more arcade with great success for the company. CA won't stop that trend now.
  • BierTempelierBierTempelier Registered Users Posts: 338

    CA could maintain quick arcade like pace settings for their new fan base, but by introducing settings that allow slower battle pace also accomodate for the original Warhammer (and RTS in general ) fan base

    Apart from adjustable tweaks to combat specs (which is also done via MODs) they could take a deeper look at the battle pace settings (slow - regular speed - fast forward) and tweak so that battle sounds are not compromised when players choose slower combat settings
  • more-morewarpstonemore-morewarpstone Registered Users Posts: 265
    It will be very hard to try and slow down how fast a Khorne army eats a Vampire counts army
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 4,862
    edited November 2021
    Based on the gameplay footage, it looks like battle speed is the exact same. Generally 5-10 minutes for most battles.

    Doesn’t look like they’re doing anything about it unfortunately. I myself prefer longer and more drawn out battles.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • BierTempelierBierTempelier Registered Users Posts: 338

    I think it will be even worse - in the gameplay footage you have regular speed, fast forward and fast forward at extra speed. The option for slowing down even seems removed...
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,387


    Well I think there should be choice in battle pace between the current fast-paced 5-10 minutes per battle and a slower paced counterpart that takes 2-2;5 longer. There are a lot of Mods out there that try to adress this - but at each game update they become outdated. SO there should be something in the game options settings. Part of the solution could be to maintain battle sound when slowing down combat the conventional way. Now sound dissapears when you slow the pace

    Yeah, but I don't actually want to watch battles literally in slow motion. I'm okay with animations and fights playing out in real time.

    I just don't want those battles to resolve themselves as decisively so quickly, and would prefer the animations trigger more deliberately in cohesive formations, rather than constantly in a 'rave' style.

    But none of that means I physically want the animations to be 'slower'. Music or not, watching every battle like a slo-mo shot from the Matrix has its own downsides as well. IF I ever use slo-mo, it's more to catch up on issuing commands more so than trying to get a cinematic view.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 32,054

    It will be very hard to try and slow down how fast a Khorne army eats a Vampire counts army

    You mean joins a Vampire Counts army by being killed and reanimated.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster

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