Am I in the wrong here that we should at least *see* the intended combined map before release?

neverending#5226

I won't deny, I will probably buy TWW3 with only the base map in consideration. However I find it inappropriate we're not going to get ANY info on the hugely anticipated final campaign map. Can we really not even have it revealed pre-release? Really? Honestly it feels a little shady and they're attempting to avoid disappointment or something.

I'd like to be proven wrong and they just reveal at least the outline of what they're going with.

Hondlis#2158

ME map was also not revealed before WH2 release. Ans what beauty it is.

Crossil#2134

Hondlis said:

ME map was also not revealed before WH2 release. Ans what beauty it is.

Well, sure, if you ignore the disappointment that followed. To this day people complain how they must bring in the rest of Lustria and the Southlands to the map. If they don't do it now, we're gonna be hearing those complains for the rest of the trilogy.

Nyxilis#3646

Crossil said:

Hondlis said:

ME map was also not revealed before WH2 release. Ans what beauty it is.

Well, sure, if you ignore the disappointment that followed. To this day people complain how they must bring in the rest of Lustria and the Southlands to the map. If they don't do it now, we're gonna be hearing those complains for the rest of the trilogy.

Lets not pretend there wont be something that is complained about till the end of days regardless.

But I do wish they were a lil more forthcoming on this part.

Warlocke

I’m really not sure why CA feels the need to keep so many features hidden. I get that they want to make a big deal of things like this when they reveal them, but I think these reveals are usually more significant in their imaginations than actuality.

By this point they know what that map will look like. Some details would be nice.

LuciusCornelius#7004

I agree that it would be fun to see the map.

That being said, if your not sure about the purchase until the combined map is reveled then it's probably best to wait to buy the game.

I'm pretty certain that it won't be an entire world map.

mecanojavi99#6562

It didn't happen before, it won't happen now, that is just how CA does things, would it be cool? Yes, but it won't happen.

neverending#5226

MarcusLivius said:

I agree that it would be fun to see the map.

That being said, if your not sure about the purchase until the combined map is reveled then it's probably best to wait to buy the game.

I'm pretty certain that it won't be an entire world map.

That's my main problem with this: I'm confident a huge chunk of *at least* this forum is far more wondering what the final campaign map is going to look like, and we're not going to know what that is and if some of them feel this is important to whether to buy it or not, well, that might involve a $10 surcharge if they don't reveal the map at all before the early adopter bonus runs out.

I mean, personally like I said I think the $60 is okay for what TWW3 itself brings AFAICT, however I can understand if someone is actually that interested in chaos etc etc but still wants the main map and is feeling a little jerked around for it.

philosofool

The grand final(e) map is a huge marketing point that will sell additional copies of TWW3 when it is released. So, no, we won't get it before Immortal Empires is announced.

A brewer once told my homebrew club "there is no business of making beer. There is a business of selling beer."

neverending#5226

philosofool said:

The grand final(e) map is a huge marketing point that will sell additional copies of TWW3 when it is released. So, no, we won't get it before Immortal Empires is announced.

A brewer once told my homebrew club "there is no business of making beer. There is a business of selling beer."

I think you may be right, and that's why I'm pointing it out. It rubs me the wrong way, even if they did it for ME1 and TWW2

LuciusCornelius#7004

DavidtheDuke said:

MarcusLivius said:

I agree that it would be fun to see the map.

That being said, if your not sure about the purchase until the combined map is reveled then it's probably best to wait to buy the game.

I'm pretty certain that it won't be an entire world map.

That's my main problem with this: I'm confident a huge chunk of *at least* this forum is far more wondering what the final campaign map is going to look like, and we're not going to know what that is and if some of them feel this is important to whether to buy it or not, well, that might involve a $10 surcharge if they don't reveal the map at all before the early adopter bonus runs out.

I mean, personally like I said I think the $60 is okay for what TWW3 itself brings AFAICT, however I can understand if someone is actually that interested in chaos etc etc but still wants the main map and is feeling a little jerked around for it.

I agree they probably have a rough idea of what the game 3 map will look like, but it's probably not close to being done, maybe not even started. At this point we don't even have that much of an idea on how the game 3 campaign map will play out.

I expect CA will deliver something like the ME map, where some lands are cut out. The geography does not really make sense otherwise, since some of the factions needed to have the map make sense, don't exist.

neverending#5226

MarcusLivius said:

I agree they probably have a rough idea of what the game 3 map will look like, but it's probably not close to being done, maybe not even started. At this point we don't even have that much of an idea on how the game 3 campaign map will play out.

They're apparently using the ME build quite comfortably to forget they're posting ME build shots in their marketing material. It's possible they're not done but I don't really accept this and they could still show what they have planned. I'm sure some artist has at least drawn up a draft of sorts, even if they can't show us the map as it is right now, which I think they probably could.

MarcusLivius said:

I expect CA will deliver something like the ME map, where some lands are cut out. The geography does not really make sense otherwise, since some of the factions needed to have the map make sense, don't exist.

Yes, I'm quite expecting not much more than ME1 and TWW3's map merged together (maybe even TWW3's base map cut some and even less of Cathay). I can understand why some who wanted at least all of Lustria, Southlands and the rest of Naggarond could be very dissapointed with this.

Valkaar#2507

If you're confident Game 3 is worth $60 now, buy it now.

If you're NOT sure that Game 3 is worth $60, and are only capable of assessing it's value after seeing the combined map, then wait.

That's the only point of a Pre-Order bonus. It's a loyalty reward for people who are confident in the game before they have full information.

If you're not confident in the game without full information, you don't get the Pre-Order. That's like, explicitly the point of the trade off in that decision.

If no trade off was intended, the Pre-Order would be free forever for everyone. That's not how it works. The Pre-Order simply just isn't for people waiting for ME to buy. That's like, deliberately the design of incentive. To get you to buy without full information.

Also, if it makes you feel any better, usually ME launches with a small mini sale of some kind. So you might be able to make up that $10 of waiting by taking advantage of the sales.

neverending#5226

Valkaar said:

Also, if it makes you feel any better, usually ME launches with a small mini sale of some kind. So you might be able to make up that $10 of waiting by taking advantage of the sales.

I'm well aware of the incentives behind the preorder. I couched the entire point of this post in that many in this forum are far more interested in the final map, which I might add I'm confident most on this forum (if not the entire playerbase) will be playing mostly in a year from now, and therefore CA at least revealing their beginning plans for ME (like just the outline of it) is entirely justified in asking for.

I'm not asking for their plans for TWW3 in the next five years. This is pretty simple IMO and the fact that they're clearly using the ME build so much that they accidentally are putting it in TWW3 marketing videos already tells me it's probably in a fairly far along state (I highly doubt the borders of it are not set in stone).

If CA really does not want to show it that badly it could mean they're not confident of the reaction people will have to it and they don't want to sour sales or face disappointment. Telling me CA justifiably refuses to show us at least their plans for perhaps the most anticipated aspect of the entire trilogy since that isn't necessary to market TWW3 is disingenuous IMO.

Warlocke said:

I’m really not sure why CA feels the need to keep so many features hidden. I get that they want to make a big deal of things like this when they reveal them, but I think these reveals are usually more significant in their imaginations than actuality.

By this point they know what that map will look like. Some details would be nice.

Alot are telling me TWW3 is a standalone product and I don't think that's really the case at all for TWW3. It's definitely tied to the other two games in terms of coding, integration, and the final combined map. That seems obvious to me given Simone was posting partial screenshots of the high elves in the ME build etc. If it were that standalone you wouldn't have marketing accidentally showing the ME build *which is definitely not standalone*

busbee247#5862

Yes you are

Oddzilla#9930

Not sure what the issue is. If ME2 is your primary interest, wait till they release it before you buy the game.

neverending#5226

Oddzilla said:

Not sure what the issue is. If ME2 is your primary interest, wait till they release it before you buy the game.

That's not the point: I'm saying for those who interest is primarily that, they're just gonna lose the early adopter bonus for something CA could easily do small blog post (even just a screenshot of).

Vildvarg

Just do what I plan on, don't buy it till the combined map is announced and after you make sure it's not a **** show.

LuciusCornelius#7004

or do what I do. Enjoy the game for what it is, and don't lose sleep over what it isn't.

neverending#5226

Vildvarg said:

Just do what I plan on, don't buy it till the combined map is announced and after you make sure it's not a **** show.

You're exactly who I'm talking about (I think), I don't think it's a huge ask to have CA show you what they're planning (if not a campaign flyover and a planned release date) so that you can get the early adopter bonus. You've bought the first two games and possibly alot of DLC.. I don't think it's a massive ask.

Valkaar#2507

DavidtheDuke said:

Vildvarg said:

Just do what I plan on, don't buy it till the combined map is announced and after you make sure it's not a **** show.

You're exactly who I'm talking about (I think), I don't think it's a huge ask to have CA show you what they're planning (if not a campaign flyover and a planned release date) so that you can get the early adopter bonus. You've bought the first two games and possibly alot of DLC.. I don't think it's a massive ask.

And in CA's mind...just enjoying Game 3 as it is, for its own $60 value isn't a 'massive ask'.

^You're allowed to disagree with CA's assessment. But then, the Pre-Order just simply isn't for you. It's that straightforward. The Pre-Order is NOT for everyone. If it was, it would just be built into Game 3's core starting line-up.

^This is part of why people find the very practice of Pre-Ordering to be kinda slimy btw. Nevertheless, slimy or not, it is the purpose of the practice.

I'm sorry if you don't think the Core of of Game 3 alone is worth $60. You're entitled to that opinion. But you just don't get the Pre-Order then. I do personally wish the practice of Pre-Orders was far less pervasive than what it is. But it's also just kinda....a 'take it or leave it' thing it feels like at this point, similar to many other modern gaming practices.

And if you DO think it's worth $60...then just buy it, and you'll see the map when it they show it later. Seeing it now doesn't make a different to you then.

Vildvarg

DavidtheDuke said:

Vildvarg said:

Just do what I plan on, don't buy it till the combined map is announced and after you make sure it's not a **** show.

You're exactly who I'm talking about (I think), I don't think it's a huge ask to have CA show you what they're planning (if not a campaign flyover and a planned release date) so that you can get the early adopter bonus. You've bought the first two games and possibly alot of DLC.. I don't think it's a massive ask.

I hear you. I would say it shouldn't be much to show an outline of what they'd like to cover, but CA is notoriously tight lipped about not giving much info until they're close to release if not waiting until it's released.

I agree with your point, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath over it.

neverending#5226

Valkaar said:

I'm sorry if you don't think the Core of of Game 3 alone is worth $60. You're entitled to that opinion. But you just don't get the Pre-Order then. I do personally wish the practice of Pre-Orders was far less pervasive than what it is. But it's also just kinda....a 'take it or leave it' thing it feels like at this point, similar to many other modern gaming practices.

And if you DO think it's worth $60...then just buy it, and you'll see the map when it they show it later. Seeing it now doesn't make a different to you then.

I agree, that's the deal, it's clear, it is what it is. I'm not actually worried about the preorder (I don't see a reason to preorder at all given the early adopter bonus etc anyway). To go a bit further: I don't really think TWW3 is a standalone game really. It's mechanics, coding, artwork, and integration have been planned since before TWW1 was released.

And yet the info they're withholding seems oddly easy to reveal I'm confident of. That's what I'm getting at. If you're saying yes they're withholding and that's just the way it is.. Sure they probably won't reveal it. I won't deny I wanna see the map and I hope this might get some people more talking about it and maybbe they'll show the map before release.

Maybe there's nothing untoward at all and they just haven't really gotten to it.

Vildvarg said:

I hear you. I would say it shouldn't be much to show an outline of what they'd like to cover, but CA is notoriously tight lipped about not giving much info until they're close to release if not waiting until it's released.

I agree with your point, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath over it.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, this isn't a big issue and really amounts to only potentially $10 (or whatever the ogres will cost). I wont' deny part of making the thread is because even though I think the game is worth $60 on its own probably, I'd like to morally justify CA into releasing info early about it. I've been looking forward to this since 2013.

Yurisusuki#3719

if fortress of dawn is not on the combined map, then probably we will have cut continents...again.

But maybe he just saying "they are not playable on that map".

Oddzilla#9930

DavidtheDuke said:

Oddzilla said:

Not sure what the issue is. If ME2 is your primary interest, wait till they release it before you buy the game.

That's not the point: I'm saying for those who interest is primarily that, they're just gonna lose the early adopter bonus for something CA could easily do small blog post (even just a screenshot of).

Yes, that means those people who waited to see the map, and then buy based on the map will then pay 10 bucks if they want Ogres. Those people who skip the game after they see the map were never going to buy the game whether they revealed the map early or not. There's no incentive to show it.

neverending#5226

Oddzilla said:

DavidtheDuke said:

Oddzilla said:

Not sure what the issue is. If ME2 is your primary interest, wait till they release it before you buy the game.

That's not the point: I'm saying for those who interest is primarily that, they're just gonna lose the early adopter bonus for something CA could easily do small blog post (even just a screenshot of).

Yes, that means those people who waited to see the map, and then buy based on the map will then pay 10 bucks if they want Ogres. Those people who skip the game after they see the map were never going to buy the game whether they revealed the map early or not. There's no incentive to show it.

It appears you're implicitly saying you're fine with them withholding potentially undesirable information and them hoping people either preorder and lock in a sale or they get $10 later. You can agree with that practice if you want, it rubs me the wrong way. I'm very aware of the deal that is currently on the table, essentially telling me me to "accept it or bugger off" isn't really saying anything new.

I find it potentially more underhanded than the WoC stuff (that didn't really bother me really), especially since we now have the early adopter stuff. With the way the final map is being handed *we can't even see it* and have to pay more to get ogres otherwise for what is almost certainly the most played map in the series in terms of playerbase one year from now.

Yurisusuki said:

if fortress of dawn is not on the combined map, then probably we will have cut continents...again.

But maybe he just saying "they are not playable on that map".

Yah, he really said nothing either way. I do doubt the fortress isn't on the combined map after seeing that, but it could just be a holdover from TWW2 or something.

Valkaar#2507

DavidtheDuke said:

Valkaar said:

I'm sorry if you don't think the Core of of Game 3 alone is worth $60. You're entitled to that opinion. But you just don't get the Pre-Order then. I do personally wish the practice of Pre-Orders was far less pervasive than what it is. But it's also just kinda....a 'take it or leave it' thing it feels like at this point, similar to many other modern gaming practices.

And if you DO think it's worth $60...then just buy it, and you'll see the map when it they show it later. Seeing it now doesn't make a different to you then.

I agree, that's the deal, it's clear, it is what it is. I'm not actually worried about the preorder (I don't see a reason to preorder at all given the early adopter bonus etc anyway). To go a bit further: I don't really think TWW3 is a standalone game really. It's mechanics, coding, artwork, and integration have been planned since before TWW1 was released.

Vildvarg said:

^I mean, I actually agree here. I think Game 3 is an "Expansion" more than a true sequel. I think MANY Games these days are largely 'over priced Expansions'.

However, if I'm still getting over 100 genuinely enjoyable hours out of the game, I usually swallow my frustration and roll with it.

And with this trilogy so far, I've been getting 1,000 hours+ out of each title. So I'm mostly forgiving of its alienating elements for the most part.

neverending#5226

Valkaar said:

^I mean, I actually agree here. I think Game 3 is an "Expansion" more than a true sequel. I think MANY Games these days are largely 'over priced Expansions'.

However, if I'm still getting over 100 genuinely enjoyable hours out of the game, I usually swallow my frustration and roll with it.

And with this trilogy so far, I've been getting 1,000 hours+ out of each title. So I'm mostly forgiving of its alienating elements for the most part.

It's funny, because this trilogy in particular I'm willing to shell out money that I'm not for anything else really. For example, I'd pay $500 for a well done Warhammer globe (with far less bugs). None of it is overpriced to me personally, more so I wish I knew their plans more clearly.

Dulahan#3120

Valkaar said:

DavidtheDuke said:

Valkaar said:

I'm sorry if you don't think the Core of of Game 3 alone is worth $60. You're entitled to that opinion. But you just don't get the Pre-Order then. I do personally wish the practice of Pre-Orders was far less pervasive than what it is. But it's also just kinda....a 'take it or leave it' thing it feels like at this point, similar to many other modern gaming practices.

And if you DO think it's worth $60...then just buy it, and you'll see the map when it they show it later. Seeing it now doesn't make a different to you then.

I agree, that's the deal, it's clear, it is what it is. I'm not actually worried about the preorder (I don't see a reason to preorder at all given the early adopter bonus etc anyway). To go a bit further: I don't really think TWW3 is a standalone game really. It's mechanics, coding, artwork, and integration have been planned since before TWW1 was released.

Vildvarg said:

^I mean, I actually agree here. I think Game 3 is an "Expansion" more than a true sequel. I think MANY Games these days are largely 'over priced Expansions'.

However, if I'm still getting over 100 genuinely enjoyable hours out of the game, I usually swallow my frustration and roll with it.

And with this trilogy so far, I've been getting 1,000 hours+ out of each title. So I'm mostly forgiving of its alienating elements for the most part.

I'd love if CA would treat it as a stand alone (able) expansion, personally. Because it would make DLC a lot less constrained by a stupid "Must include a race from the main game" stupidity that way.

Itharus#3127

Nope, sadly.

Mortal Empires was basically considered an FLC item so they kept a lid on it til they launched it as a separate product (the FLC).

It will be the same this time. It's just an FLC you'll need game 1, 2, and 3 owned to be able to get.

Steph#6413

This final combined map is what I'm really waiting for. Game 3 campaign is just a filler waiting for it.
I'm rather confident, but cautious, and it should be previewed before release of Game 3.
For players who consider the 3 games as 3 part of a more global game, and want to "play the world" with all races and factions together, it is important to know what they'll get buying the 3 games.